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uperkurk
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Posted - 2009.10.22 22:15:00 -
[1]
Hey guys, I spoke roughly with a guy I saw in jita local today I wont mention his name but he was selling afew jump freighters at 4b a pop. Does anyone have a real detailed from start to finish guide on how to make isk in manufactuing ships. I mean, yeh I train some skills and buy a bpc, then buy all the minerals and build a ship and sell it. But am I really making any money? I mean some people have hundreds of billions of isk on this game and the only way I think they could earn that much is by building hundreds of ships a week for an alliance or something. But then it still boils down do these guys do missions, reprocess the loot then use that loot to build ships? Surely not because it takes about 15 level 4 missions do get the minerals so its just not practical. Would I make a decent amount of isk if I just bought the minerals on market? Cmon guys let in on the secret just abit lol.
P.S I'm moving to 0.0 soon so building ships will be even harder because you need a pos and you have to fly far to get the minerals ect ect.
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Joe Starbreaker
Octavian Vanguard
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Posted - 2009.10.22 22:20:00 -
[2]
Recommend you learn to use Excel. If that fails, get a friend who will take you under his wing... and teach you Excel.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.22 22:36:00 -
[3]
Nobody will tell you all the answers. It would cut into their profits.
The key to success is research. If you don't want to Google or EVE-Search for basic info, you won't get far.
Then be prepared to actually watch the markets for a while, and make spreadsheets to see what is worth building, and when to buy materials or sell your products. The old adage of "location, location, location!" applies too. Know the market.
Finally, you will need some starting capital, so figure out how to get there from here.
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Elana Damondred
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Posted - 2009.10.22 22:43:00 -
[4]
The short version is you have to do your research. The market information is available to design a program, macro or simple spreadsheet that evaluates the production costs of any given item based upon your skills and the BPC you have (don't forget to include the cost of the BPC\BPO). After that you look at the market and evaluate what items you can sell for above the cost of the components. The difference between the sum cost of the components (at current market values, NOT the value that you purchase them at) and the sell price that you actually sell your item for represents your profit. Calculating it is just simple arithmetic, downloading the data and inputting it into your system (spreadsheet, java program, etc.).
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Sidrat Flush
Caldari Life is Experience New Eden Hardware Emporium
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Posted - 2009.10.22 23:28:00 -
[5]
Use the spreadsheet linked below, but what the other people have said is true. Market research is your key to greater profits.
15 level 4 missions isn't a lot and I'm sure out in 0.0 you will eventually have access to a station for manufacturing, although what the prices are is entirely dependant on the station owners.
Wether you buy the minerals or re-process t1 loot (DAMN THOSE RATS!) the minerals still hold value, this is the price I compare when calculating the 'profit' margin.
Minerals in 0.0 should be easier to come across if you have a secure system to mine/rat in of course.
Eve-online Industrial Organiser thread full batch manufacturing
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Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
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Posted - 2009.10.23 00:14:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Nobody will tell you all the answers. It would cut into their profits.
The main problem is that as soon as someone actually does say on a forum how to make a profit, 1,000 people will go out there and do it, and by the time they all finish building it won't BE profitable any more. Thus the way to make a profit is to be the discoverable of how to make profits or one of the first few people afterwards.
What makes a profit will change from week to week, though some things will probably always be profitable (barely) they may sometimes have good profits and other times just profits that most don't find worth it.
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AmarrettoDiAmarr
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Posted - 2009.10.23 06:07:00 -
[7]
Listen to what everyone said above ( except feel free to substitute Open Office, Google Spreadsheets or Numbers for Excel depending upon your religious beliefs. )
As one would expect from a popular occupation, ship building is quite competitive, which means not excessively profitable (and that is being kind.)
A couple of threads away from this one is the golem thread with negative comments on ship building.
http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1183830/page/1 has the amusing "Manufacturing is a hobby, not a profession. If you want ISK, run missions or trade."
A lot of people jump in and say that with research/analysis you can/they have done it. A semantic point is in that case, are you really a manufacturer? Say you research a couple dozen ships in a dozen markets for a couple of weeks and find something you can profitably manufacture and sell. Is your "value add" really manufacturing, or is it sales/marketing analysis? It is not entirely academic; say your research is that RIfters sell profitably in RvB land on Saturdays. Would your ISK/hour be about the same if you bought your secret ship in Jita or wherever and took it to your secret location rather than manufacture it yourself? Even if you find a ship that is profitable enough for you to build, it may turn out that building it is not the economic answer.
This is a game; if you enjoy it and it takes 10 hours and 4.1 billion ISK to make a 4 billion ship, then feel free.
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.10.23 07:19:00 -
[8]
Just remember, if you mine the materials, or get the datacores through agents, you can lower your selling price, because that stuff is effectively free.
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Tradeo Long
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Posted - 2009.10.23 07:52:00 -
[9]
Nothing is free.. everything has a potential value. Or do you have unlimited time?
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Signore Kaeota
Caldari Caelum Incognitum
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Posted - 2009.10.23 08:13:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Just remember, if you mine the materials, or get the datacores through agents, you can lower your selling price, because that stuff is effectively free.
I lol'd so damned hard. Thank you. -_-_-_-
I, Signore Kaeota, hereby apologise for any and all offence caused by the contents of this above post, and all others that I have written, or otherwise been responsible for.
-_-_-_ |
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ingenting
20th Legion Sodalitas XX
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Posted - 2009.10.23 09:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Just remember, if you mine the materials, or get the datacores through agents, you can lower your selling price, because that stuff is effectively free.
i see what you did there!
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Ivana Twinkle
Amarr Polytechnique Gallenteenne
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Posted - 2009.10.23 13:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Tradeo Long Nothing is free.. everything has a potential value. Or do you have unlimited time?
his 10 Chinese macro miners are basicly free? :P
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Niggerr Lips
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Posted - 2009.10.23 14:27:00 -
[13]
The only reason i clicked on this topic was because i though it was about sex.
For me, I take it right up the butt.
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente Ministers Of Destruction. The First Blood
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Posted - 2009.10.23 14:52:00 -
[14]
I use maths, that's my secret, don't tell anyone --
Nothing is worthless, you may have gotten it for free but it still has an inherent value
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uperkurk
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Posted - 2009.10.23 15:12:00 -
[15]
Well thanks for the tips guys. I would most likely triple my money if I got an alt miner based in highsec that just mines all day and I use my main for other stuff. Then I could get most of the minerals for without actually buying them, thus saving myself alot of isk. I wont even ask but trading is another one of them "how the hell do you guys do it" type questions lol. I understand about buy low and sell high but you cant charge the earth something cos people will just click the order below yours and save 2m lol.
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davet517
Raata Invicti D0GS OF WAR
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Posted - 2009.10.23 18:52:00 -
[16]
Manufacturing is something that, if you are very organized and smart about it, will let you make good isk relatively passively, freeing up your game time to do other things (like PvP). If you aren't very organized and/or smart or if you don't have the capital that's needed, you can do the same thing by semi-afk mining or mission running with an alt in high sec (or semi-AFK ratting in a backwater 0.0 system where nobody goes) while you do other things (like PvP).
The advantage to semi-afk mining/mission running/ratting is, again, you don't have to be very organized and/or smart. You should probably only do manufacturing if if you ARE very organized AND smart AND pouring over spreadsheets and market information to out-compete the next guy is fun for you.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.10.23 19:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: uperkurk ...Then I could get most of the minerals for without actually buying them, thus saving myself alot of isk....
No.
Nononono.
No.
Everything has exactly the same value, regardless of how you come by it. Industrialist mentalities like this will just lead to others making money off your financial illiteracy.
If you mine yourself, always value your minerals (or anything else you ever have in game) at whatever price you could realistically sell them for. Once you start doing this, you'll notice some items occasionally sell for less than you could have gotten for just selling the minerals. ----------------
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Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2009.10.23 19:25:00 -
[18]
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Breaker77
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.23 21:08:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 23/10/2009 21:08:02
Originally by: uperkurk I would most likely triple my money if I got an alt miner based in highsec that just mines all day and I use my main for other stuff. Then I could get most of the minerals for without actually buying them, thus saving myself alot of isk.
Please let me know what you are selling and where at. I need an easy way to make ISK, and reprocessing your items to sell the minerals sounds like a perfect way for me to utilize my scrapmetal skill.
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uperkurk
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:00:00 -
[20]
Well actually im not selling anything atm. But why is this a bad idea? let me see one sec..... buying trit of the market to make ships, or mine to make the trit myself with an alt? I choose mine myself.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: uperkurk Well actually im not selling anything atm. But why is this a bad idea? let me see one sec..... buying trit of the market to make ships, or mine to make the trit myself with an alt? I choose mine myself.
It's.
The.
Same.
Look at it this way: You need 1000 trit to build a widget. Trit, at that moment, is selling for 3 isk each. Widgets are selling for 2000 isk each.
Now, since your trit is "free" you build the item, and sell it for 2000 isk.
Alternatively, you value your items and time properly, and sell the trit for 3000 isk.
Which one looks like the financial illiterate to you? ----------------
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Brock Nelson
Caldari Flux Technologies Inc
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:08:00 -
[22]
Guess you don't value your time in the game...
Tools for Research Business
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Raser Moonstrider
Raser Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:18:00 -
[23]
Dunno what you guys are complaining about, personally I like this. This means I can afford to buy all his mined minerals for twice what he paid for them.
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uperkurk
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:41:00 -
[24]
whoa im just not understanding what you guys are saying. If I have all the minerals I need to build one ship lets say, but I need 5million units of trit. I could mine them 5m units and then build that ship. Or. Just buy the 5m units of trit for 15m isk. But then I have effectivly lost 15m isk cos ive just spent it on trit?
Please someone explain how this is not being cost effective? at the end of the day it costs 0 isk for me to mine. But it takes time. And over time I could make more isk if I just bought the trit? Is that what you guys are saying?
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Raser Moonstrider
Raser Industries
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:48:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Raser Moonstrider on 23/10/2009 23:50:40 It doesn't cost you isk to acquire the minerals through mining, but that doesn't mean that your minerals are without value.
You can either buy 15m isk worth of minerals, or you can mine 15m isk worth of minerals, but at the the end of the day your minerals are still worth 15m isk, and the only "profit" you get is whatever extra isk you can get out of the ship that you build from them.
You don't necessarily "lose" the 15m isk, because your alt can be out doing more profitable things (like lvl 4 missions), and you will get that 15m + profit back once the ship sells.
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:56:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Lui Kai on 23/10/2009 23:57:58
Originally by: uperkurk whoa im just not understanding what you guys are saying. If I have all the minerals I need to build one ship lets say, but I need 5million units of trit. I could mine them 5m units and then build that ship. Or. Just buy the 5m units of trit for 15m isk. But then I have effectivly lost 15m isk cos ive just spent it on trit?
Please someone explain how this is not being cost effective? at the end of the day it costs 0 isk for me to mine. But it takes time. And over time I could make more isk if I just bought the trit? Is that what you guys are saying?
No.
Smaller words hypothetical: You have minerals. They are worth 10m if you sell them.
That exact quantity of minerals can build a ship.
That ship is worth 5m if you sell it.
By treating your minerals as free, you just made 5m, instead of 10m.
I really don't know any simpler way of explaining this.
It doesn't matter if you bought them.
Let's assume a profitible situation.
You mine minerals worth 5m.
You build something worth 10m. You no longer have the minerals worth 5m.
You just made 5m building.
You buy minerals worth 5m
You build something worth 10m. You no longer have the minerals worth 5m.
You just made 5m building. ----------------
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Julian Koll
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:57:00 -
[27]
i'll quote myself from another thread
Quote: T2 production is totally profitable as long as you follow those easy steps:
1: Get your own datacores. That lowers the invention costs by an increadible amount. 2: Mine your own minerals. Much lower build costs 3: Build your own components. Even lower build costs
sure, there will be people throwing around fancy words like opportunity cost, but those guys are fools. what counts at the end of the day is the isk in your wallet, nothing else. You're on a good way here. Continue to follow it.
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uperkurk
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Posted - 2009.10.23 23:58:00 -
[28]
ok I undersstand what your saying but my main is a pvp/mission runner, I want my alt to be 100% mining and trading/manufacturing.
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Slavemaster
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Posted - 2009.10.24 00:56:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Slavemaster on 24/10/2009 00:59:49
Originally by: Lui Kai
Originally by: uperkurk ...Then I could get most of the minerals for without actually buying them, thus saving myself alot of isk....
No.
Nononono.
No.
Everything has exactly the same value, regardless of how you come by it. Industrialist mentalities like this will just lead to others making money off your financial illiteracy.
If you mine yourself, always value your minerals (or anything else you ever have in game) at whatever price you could realistically sell them for. Once you start doing this, you'll notice some items occasionally sell for less than you could have gotten for just selling the minerals.
..... if you have a freighter...... And willing to use a lot of time hauling the stuff... + you have to Add the hauling time = isk perH, + the cost of the broker. (lost mining time++)
So, if you dont sell the the stuff in jita, but local at a loss of 15% Then we can add +15% profit on building ships...
And Visa versa if you wanna buy the minerals for production...
So, he is not that wrong
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Lui Kai
Better Than You
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Posted - 2009.10.24 01:35:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Slavemaster
..... if you have a freighter...... And willing to use a lot of time hauling the stuff... + you have to Add the hauling time = isk perH, + the cost of the broker. (lost mining time++)
So, if you dont sell the the stuff in jita, but local at a loss of 15% Then we can add +15% profit on building ships...
And Visa versa if you wanna buy the minerals for production...
So, he is not that wrong
He's been to slow to get "Stuff you mine isn't free" - trying to get him to understand opportunity costs as above is like trying to teach calculus to a ******. ----------------
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