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RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1877
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 21:26:00 -
[181] - Quote
Arsala wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Arsala wrote:This does not include games that are designed with constant player combat in mind. lol your Wikipedia dropping managed to backfire on you right there please don't try to solve the issue with a single sentence from the whole of what I wrote. If you re-read it talks about multiplayer combat games and different area's and such. I was trying to fairly post all the info, and now what you said only shows points that reflect certain opinions, not all of the info. There is more there than just what benefits "gang-currs". This is to help players understand the different relation between consensual PvP and grieffing others. There are legal issues here that can be brought into a possible class action. please go back and re-read my post and even take a break to smoke then read over the laws that may pertain to your state and the state that CCP has an office in the US at. There is a reason I posted the company's address so those who were interested could look. I know in my state they could be brought to a trial, for cyber-crimes. Not saying if it would win or not, but the fact that it can be brought to a court gives me pause and it should give others.
All combat in EvE is consensual. You consent when you undock. That's a core function of the game.
Since no in game material is your property, and CCP's only responsibility is to provide access to the game, there is no possible basis for any sort of legal action. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1878
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 21:27:00 -
[182] - Quote
Arsala wrote:Ioci wrote: CCP don't call it 'griefing' but a duck is a duck and we all know better. CCP is not the authoritative figure on who defines griefing or harassment which griefing is. And harassment is a serious matter. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.) this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court.
CCP is the authority on what griefing is in their game. Harassment is a bannable (and strictly defined) offense in EvE. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7921
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 21:27:00 -
[183] - Quote
Arsala wrote:CCP is not the authoritative figure on who defines griefing or harassment which griefing is. In their own game, they most certainly are as far as griefing goes.
Quote:this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court. No. That's the trick about legalese. If it says language it means language.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
487
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:32:00 -
[184] - Quote
Arsala wrote:this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court.
That is just so much stupid condensed into one post I'm not sure my mind can even comprehend it fully...
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
117
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 21:40:00 -
[185] - Quote
Arsala is a great name to say out loud.
It is a fitting the opinions put forward by the above said Arsala (and incorrectly presented as facts from an authoritative source) are pretty much summed up by pronouncing the characters name aloud. |
Lord Zim
792
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 22:30:00 -
[186] - Quote
Arsala wrote:CCP is not the authoritative figure on who defines griefing or harassment which griefing is. And harassment is a serious matter. Yes, they are. What would be griefing/harassment in other games (stealing from someone, ganking them, etc) is normal in EVE. If you think stealing from someone or ganking them, even in hisec, is griefing/harassment, unless it's singling out a single person and only a single person, then I have a bridge to sell you.
Arsala wrote:You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. This means you can't go after a specific person and be abusive, repeatedly, whether it be a player or an authorized representative of CCP.
Notice how they list up things like petitioning with false information, sending excessive e-mails, eve-mails, petitions, hindering CCP employees from doing their jobs, etc etc etc etc etc. Not a single aspect of this implies that ganking a single person once, or even ganking the same person multiple times if the person doesn't learn what he did to put himself in the crosshairs the first time. Like, for example, flying an untanked hulk or flying a ship with a very valuable cargo.
Arsala wrote:You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.) Notice how all of this is handling the topic of language, and how it's prohibiting abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language, and how obscuring the words through misspelling won't help.
Arsala wrote:this from their own EULA, now I know it says language but im sure it implies actions against also which would not be hard to prove in a court. I can only hope you're not a defense lawyer, because that assumption is so wrong on oh so many levels it's not even funny.
When a legalese text says language, it means language. Shooting someone, no matter how hard you wish it to be, isn't language. Nor is shooting someone once harassment, abuse, hateful etc etc etc. In fact, shooting someone multiple times isn't necessarily harassment, abuse, hateful etcetcetc either, unless the intent behind said action is to harass, abuse, hate on etc etc etc a single individual. Which means, shooting someone because they're dumb enough to f.ex run the same route with an overly expensive cargo, repeatedly, or because they're doing anything in an expensive ship which can yield a profit by shooting, isn't breaking the EULA. It's only when you go after someone, repeatedly, and over a prolonged time with the explicit intent to harass, abuse or hate on that specific individual that it becomes a problem which is petitionable under the EULA.
So suck it up. |
Thor Kerrigan
Guardians of Asceticism
88
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 22:43:00 -
[187] - Quote
Phill Esteen wrote:Hey ccp you need to do something about these whiners whining about getting ganked in general discussion, its taking away the more sophisticated trolling . general discussion is suppose to be a place where we post about sunglasses raytracing and ccp/goon/nwo/illuminati conspiracies and not a forum where we have to listen to miners whine. No i understand if we were in crime & punishment yea then by all means post away but crying us general discussion is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the threads locked for spam. I have had enough. if i see one more thread about griefing i will unsub my accounts, that will be 30,000 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these posters. ty.
Did it before I could ever do better.
/thread |
Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club
350
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 22:44:00 -
[188] - Quote
Riiekus wrote:Hey ccp you need to do something about these griefers ganking hulks and mackinaws in ice and ore belts, its taking away the game play . high sec is suppose to be a safe zone not a worry about whether or not im going to get ganked while trying to mine for my corp. No i understand if we were in low or null sec mining away yea then by all means gank away but griefing us in high sec is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the alpha strikers at the gates. I have had enough. if i lose one more ship due to griefers i will quit this game, that will be 30 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these griefers. ty.
Riiekus.
/emote fires up locator agent...
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1027
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:00:00 -
[189] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:Riiekus wrote:Hey ccp you need to do something about these griefers ganking hulks and mackinaws in ice and ore belts, its taking away the game play . high sec is suppose to be a safe zone not a worry about whether or not im going to get ganked while trying to mine for my corp. No i understand if we were in low or null sec mining away yea then by all means gank away but griefing us in high sec is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the alpha strikers at the gates. I have had enough. if i lose one more ship due to griefers i will quit this game, that will be 30 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these griefers. ty.
Riiekus. /emote fires up locator agent... Don't - he threatened to UNSUB... Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Rath Kelbore
The Six-Pack Syndicate
236
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:36:00 -
[190] - Quote
Riiekus wrote:Hey ccp you need to do something about these griefers ganking hulks and mackinaws in ice and ore belts, its taking away the game play . high sec is suppose to be a safe zone not a worry about whether or not im going to get ganked while trying to mine for my corp. No i understand if we were in low or null sec mining away yea then by all means gank away but griefing us in high sec is absolutely ludicris. I have watched so many people quit this game because of it. Not to mention the alpha strikers at the gates. I have had enough. if i lose one more ship due to griefers i will quit this game, that will be 30 dollars usd x 12 months out of the year not going to your bank account. so please deal with these griefers. ty.
Riiekus.
****** troll or confused idiot. No sure which.
High sec is suppose to be safe derp.
I plan on living forever.......so far, so good. |
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Arsala
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:37:00 -
[191] - Quote
ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.
Many here disagree with an opinion that differs from there own, thats perfectly ok. As it is different I expect some resistance to it. But an environment where a corporation is paying others to do the harass a singled out group of individuals based on a specified criteria over and over is the same as one person getting harassed by another over and over ... either way its harassment. when a specif group of people are the minority and the majority claims no foul is committed chances are good that the majority is just not wanting to admit they are wrong. This is why civil rights in RL have always been so hard to get for minorities.
CPP is responsible for the environment and atmosphere in which we play, the fact that individuals can make and promote an environment where harassment takes place and is actively encouraged is most likely the lack of monitoring on CCP's part and I am sure that once there made aware of it they will move to fix it.
Indies are the minority in this game, always have been except for the botters. This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element.... We all deserve a fun and semi fair place to play. We are not the majority so Im sure we will be ignored.
http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/miner/ This is the miner link no where in it does it say you will be harassed and podded. I could post others as well but Id just waste my time. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1027
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:41:00 -
[192] - Quote
Arsala wrote:ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.
You can be the new Miners' Friend. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
716
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:43:00 -
[193] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Arsala wrote:ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.
You can be the new Miners' Friend.
Fortunately miners are like the 18-25 demographic in that they whine constantly about change and progress but don't actually vote. Things are only impossible until they are not. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7924
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:44:00 -
[194] - Quote
Arsala wrote:This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element. Eh, no. It's a non-instanced single-shard MMO sandbox where everything is PvP, not only by design, but because that's what you automatically get if you make a non-instanced single-shard MMO sandbox.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1027
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:48:00 -
[195] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Arsala wrote:ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office.
You can be the new Miners' Friend. Fortunately miners are like the 18-25 demographic in that they whine constantly about change and progress but don't actually vote. Tell that to yesterday's Miners' Friend. Either way the rhetoric sounds like something they would go for. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Arsala
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 23:55:00 -
[196] - Quote
I voice the opinion of the few and i get..
https://forums.eveonline.com/error.htm?aspxerrorpath=/default.aspx
really do my words frighten that much that i get the B-Hammer |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1027
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:08:00 -
[197] - Quote
CCP got ganked. Oh dear...
Better buff the internet forums CONCORD. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Alia Gon'die
Aliastra Gallente Federation
99
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:14:00 -
[198] - Quote
Clearly getting a redirect loop or the forums getting a hiccup is because you are The Miner's (Only) Friend. Self-appointed forums hallway monitor |
Lord Zim
792
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:25:00 -
[199] - Quote
Arsala wrote:Many here disagree with an opinion that differs from there own, thats perfectly ok. As it is different I expect some resistance to it. It's nothing to do with "it's different from my opinion". It's just facts.
Arsala wrote:But an environment where a corporation is paying others to do the harass a singled out group of individuals based on a specified criteria over and over is the same as one person getting harassed by another over and over ... either way its harassment. Using that categorization, going after "nullsec ratters" is also harassment, going after another alliance's space is also harassment, and declaring hisec war against another corp/alliance is also harassment.
Arsala wrote:when a specif group of people are the minority and the majority claims no foul is committed chances are good that the majority is just not wanting to admit they are wrong. This is why civil rights in RL have always been so hard to get for minorities. First of all, what you whiners keep claiming, every time it's time to talk about the CSM, is that "75% of all players are in hisec". And now, suddenly, the hisec population is "the minority"? ...ok.
As for the definition of "the minority" as a whole, is mining a religion? Are miners a race? Oh wait, it's just an ingame profession.
Arsala wrote:CPP is responsible for the environment and atmosphere in which we play, the fact that individuals can make and promote an environment where harassment takes place and is actively encouraged is most likely the lack of monitoring on CCP's part and I am sure that once there made aware of it they will move to fix it. Aahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
You may have missed the part where we stopped all transport into, and out of, jita for a few days,. What was CCP's response? "******* awesome", is what.
Arsala wrote:This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element.... Haaaaahahahahahahaahaahaahahahaha
Everything in this game is PVP. If you mine, salvage, buy/haul/sell, anything, it's PVP. PVP isn't just about shooting/getting shot, it's competing versus another player. If you're going to keep playing EVE, then you'd better just fathom this fact and embrace it, ro you will keep on whining about how unfair it is that people can actually kill you in hisec. Which, btw, is space which is designated as safer space, not safe space. The developers have been adamant about this since the game was first released, all the way up until now, and bleating about how it isn't a PVP game, repeatedly and constantly, will not change this fact. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
965
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:33:00 -
[200] - Quote
Arsala wrote:There are legal issues here that can be brought into a possible class action.
please point out how ganking in a video game is a "legal issue" eh |
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Lord Zim
792
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:41:00 -
[201] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Arsala wrote:There are legal issues here that can be brought into a possible class action. please point out how ganking in a video game is a "legal issue" You see, killing pixels is like killing kittens, and people who kill kittens are sociopaths. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
965
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:43:00 -
[202] - Quote
arsala is a princess bride parachute account c/d eh |
masternerdguy
Inner Shadow NightSong Directorate
716
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 01:45:00 -
[203] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Arsala wrote:There are legal issues here that can be brought into a possible class action. please point out how ganking in a video game is a "legal issue"
You see, it is well known 1 isk = 1 dollar.
So you robbed him of 300 million dollars + emotional damages.
Things are only impossible until they are not. |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
1880
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:01:00 -
[204] - Quote
Arsala wrote:ok folks pull back on the aggression a little this is on a topic of discussion in the forums, i'm not running for office. Many here disagree with an opinion that differs from there own, thats perfectly ok. As it is different I expect some resistance to it. But an environment where a corporation is paying others to do the harass a singled out group of individuals based on a specified criteria over and over is the same as one person getting harassed by another over and over ... either way its harassment. when a specif group of people are the minority and the majority claims no foul is committed chances are good that the majority is just not wanting to admit they are wrong. This is why civil rights in RL have always been so hard to get for minorities. CPP is responsible for the environment and atmosphere in which we play, the fact that individuals can make and promote an environment where harassment takes place and is actively encouraged is most likely the lack of monitoring on CCP's part and I am sure that once there made aware of it they will move to fix it. Indies are the minority in this game, always have been except for the botters. This is not a PvP game, it is an MMO sandbox with some PvP element.... We all deserve a fun and semi fair place to play. We are not the majority so Im sure we will be ignored. http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/miner/This is the miner link no where in it does it say you will be harassed and podded. I could post others as well but Id just waste my time.
You claimed that there was standing for a lawsuit over ganking. That's laughable.
You claim that shooting pixels in space is harassment when CCP clearly defines actionable harassment as words. That's idiocy.
You claim that CCP should be more hands on with it's control of player generated content. That flies in the face of 9 years of EvE's history.
You claim that miners are in the minority. LuLz.
In EvE, you deserve only what you can keep and protect. In HiSec, CONCORD makes keeping and protecting what you have easier in some ways and harder in others. Those are the mechanics you pick when you live in HS. Choosing where to live isn't about relative safety, it's about choosing what mechanics you would like to work under while you protect what's yours.
http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/explorer/ This talks about wormholes, but skips POS management and getting podded in bubbles. Maybe those pages are all glossing over the risk or effort of the professions and focusing on the possible benefits.
http://www.eveonline.com/sandbox/fleet-commander/ This one certainly glosses over the enormous amounts of ships you're going to lose on the way to becoming a halfway competent FC. This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:07:00 -
[205] - Quote
I'm not being aggressive here folks. Not in the least. The consequences I mentioned are reasonable. There's lots of PVP options in high sec already, War Dec's, Factional Engagements.
What all these people are up in arms about is wanting to preserve the ability to ruin someones day. Simple as that. Most are fighting for the simple right to blind side an suspecting new player, or attacking ships that can't defend there selves. I don't think these people are necessarily bad people, I actually know many of them. We have people that have alts in our alliance that gank all the time. We talk about it frequently. I'll tell you the same thing I tell them, I think it's a poor PVP'er that does that sort thing. I personally think CCP it's self is working hard on there re-balance strategy.
I feel for them actually, because the changes will come damn slow from one prospective, and not be well received from the another. Simplest thing to do in the short term is nothing. That's what I would do. But I have faith, this will be leveled eventually.
I think my proposed adjustments are exactly what need's to be done. I would support them 100%. Also all the graphs, and study charts also support this, and I'm sure this is where CCP is looking.
Oh yea, some one please point out to me in the EULA, where by simply undocking in high sec, I consent to UN-solicited PVP Hmm. Or having it forced on me? Yes having it "FORCED" on me. Basically forcing me to indulge in game play I do not want to participate in. because that's exactly what these guys are doing.
Now just so you know, I'm not mad, I'm not angry, I'm not slamming anyone here. Just so ya know. |
Xander Riggs
Federal Navy Historical Society
211
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:13:00 -
[206] - Quote
Protip: Pirates attack undefended vessels.
That's what makes them PIRATES. "A man with a drone-boat has nothing but time on his hands." |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:17:00 -
[207] - Quote
Yews that's correct, the Somali's do it all the time, when's the last time you saw a pirate strike on Santa Monica Blvd. In the middle of Los Angeles. Kinda remind ya of high sec. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
7927
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:19:00 -
[208] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:Oh yea, some one please point out to me in the EULA, where by simply undocking in high sec, I consent to UN-solicited PVP Hmm. Or having it forced on me? It's in there by way of omission: nothing of what you just described is prohibited by the EULA. The EULA therefore allows it. By agreeing to the EULA, you've consented to unsolicited, unprovoked, nonconsensial PvP.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Lord Zim
792
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:19:00 -
[209] - Quote
Mrr Woodcock wrote:I'm not being aggressive here folks. Not in the least. The consequences I mentioned are reasonable. There's lots of PVP options in high sec already, War Dec's, Factional Engagements. In other words, you think that you're entitled to be entirely safe unless you toggle a "PVP flag".
Get. Out.
Mrr Woodcock wrote:I personally think CCP it's self is working hard on there re-balance strategy.
[...]
I think my proposed adjustments are exactly what need's to be done. I would support them 100%. Also all the graphs, and study charts also support this, and I'm sure this is where CCP is looking. Yes, a CCP which says the burn jita event was "******* brilliant" is definitely looking to make a lot of changes here.
Mrr Woodcock wrote:Oh yea, some one please point out to me in the EULA, where by simply undocking in high sec, I consent to UN-solicited PVP Hmm. Or having it forced on me? Yes having it "FORCED" on me. Basically forcing me to indulge in game play I do not want to participate in. because that's exactly what these guys are doing. Last I checked, EULAs were more about limiting what you were allowed to do. Does it say anywhere in the EULA that I can't go out and gank someone in hisec? No?`WHY, ISN'T THAT JUST ABSOLUTELY SHOCKING.
Mrr Woodcock wrote:Yews that's correct, the Somali's do it all the time, when's the last time you saw a pirate strike on Santa Monica Blvd. In the middle of Los Angeles. Kinda remind ya of high sec. This is literally one of the worst real life analogies I've seen yet. Well done. |
Mrr Woodcock
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 02:24:00 -
[210] - Quote
Tippia BS, LOL
Lord Zim, I'm really glad you liked my analogy. LMFAO
Just so you know, I don't run in high sec, I really don't care what you do there to be honest. But my opinion is that, if that's what your into. Your just weak. |
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