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Black Jackal
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:46:00 -
[1]
It's useless anyway. There aren't enough research slots and those that are out are being hoarded for multi millions of isk. Whats the point?
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Black Jackal
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:46:00 -
[2]
It's useless anyway. There aren't enough research slots and those that are out are being hoarded for multi millions of isk. Whats the point?
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MysticNZ
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:54:00 -
[3]
I don't see much of a point at the moment either.
More slots, more slots!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
MysticNZ
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:54:00 -
[4]
I don't see much of a point at the moment either.
More slots, more slots!
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination. |
Sicori Malaki
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:57:00 -
[5]
the point is more Mineral efficiency for BPC you get to build ships from, resulting in lower cost.
______________
Only in the Tales that humans tell, do the hunters kill the wolf in the end.
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Sicori Malaki
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:57:00 -
[6]
the point is more Mineral efficiency for BPC you get to build ships from, resulting in lower cost.
______________
Only in the Tales that humans tell, do the hunters kill the wolf in the end.
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Skogul
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:59:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: Black Jackal
It's useless anyway. There aren't enough research slots and those that are out are being hoarded for multi millions of isk. Whats the point?
The point is finite resources ... resulting in competition ... resulting in supply vs demand ... resulting in something that's a whole lot more interesting than, say, EverQuest (I or II). Or World of Warcraft. Or Dark Age of Camelot. Or any other MMORPG out on the market today (or for the near future - although watch out CCP, I heard The Matrix Online was stealing the skills training idea [maybe CCP stole it from Anarchy Online? not sure]).
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Skogul
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Posted - 2004.11.02 01:59:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Black Jackal
It's useless anyway. There aren't enough research slots and those that are out are being hoarded for multi millions of isk. Whats the point?
The point is finite resources ... resulting in competition ... resulting in supply vs demand ... resulting in something that's a whole lot more interesting than, say, EverQuest (I or II). Or World of Warcraft. Or Dark Age of Camelot. Or any other MMORPG out on the market today (or for the near future - although watch out CCP, I heard The Matrix Online was stealing the skills training idea [maybe CCP stole it from Anarchy Online? not sure]).
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Stars End
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:01:00 -
[9]
There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of supply, so half the supply vs. demand equation is missing.
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Stars End
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:01:00 -
[10]
There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of supply, so half the supply vs. demand equation is missing.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:10:00 -
[11]
There is a tech1 volume problem, but it is not descended directly from the research mechanisms of the game. The ease of laboratory hoarding contributes, but it is not the main factor.
Things should be better 2 months into shiva. One of the best thing for alliances would be to get rid of remote paying for any slots or corp offices. Painful, but the right thing to do.
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Lygos
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:10:00 -
[12]
There is a tech1 volume problem, but it is not descended directly from the research mechanisms of the game. The ease of laboratory hoarding contributes, but it is not the main factor.
Things should be better 2 months into shiva. One of the best thing for alliances would be to get rid of remote paying for any slots or corp offices. Painful, but the right thing to do.
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Soren
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:11:00 -
[13]
I found a slot today, first try..
_________________________________________________________
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Soren
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:11:00 -
[14]
I found a slot today, first try..
_________________________________________________________
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Killraven
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:15:00 -
[15]
There isn't alot of supply cause just about everyone has tech 1 bps and build there own stuff. Be it ammo, ships, whatever. Kind of hard and rather pointless to be a pure manufacturing corp.
As for tech 2 production, still pretty pointless as well. Not enough tech 2 parts to build in any decent amount and the bps aren't getting out fast enough. Also the lottery is a horrible way of distributing items in a mmorpg. So really hard to say if it's fair in the least bit regardless of what CCP says.
Guess we'll just have to wait till shiva, which oddly reminds of Castor so far in the delays and stuff. Just keep our fingers crossed I guess.
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Killraven
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Posted - 2004.11.02 02:15:00 -
[16]
There isn't alot of supply cause just about everyone has tech 1 bps and build there own stuff. Be it ammo, ships, whatever. Kind of hard and rather pointless to be a pure manufacturing corp.
As for tech 2 production, still pretty pointless as well. Not enough tech 2 parts to build in any decent amount and the bps aren't getting out fast enough. Also the lottery is a horrible way of distributing items in a mmorpg. So really hard to say if it's fair in the least bit regardless of what CCP says.
Guess we'll just have to wait till shiva, which oddly reminds of Castor so far in the delays and stuff. Just keep our fingers crossed I guess.
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Chucky
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Posted - 2004.11.02 03:45:00 -
[17]
Since most peeps lost slots due bugs, adding a few more would be nice
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Chucky
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Posted - 2004.11.02 03:45:00 -
[18]
Since most peeps lost slots due bugs, adding a few more would be nice
... you will see more and more marketing which in turn will bring you more players to torture. |
Shakul
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Posted - 2004.11.02 03:46:00 -
[19]
prices will go up enough in a few months that people will start dropping labs, so i wouldn't worry too much about labs.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Shakul
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Posted - 2004.11.02 03:46:00 -
[20]
prices will go up enough in a few months that people will start dropping labs, so i wouldn't worry too much about labs.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.11.02 05:31:00 -
[21]
Could always change the system so that you pay for a particualr piece of reserch to be done then the slot frees up. If you were chaged in advance for the reserch it would discorage blocking the slots for years at a time (as is done atm). Ofc if slots were easyier to get they wouldnt need to be held and the whole thing would be more fluid.
So for example. If i have a BP I wanted reserched to ME10. I find a reserch station, select the BP and the process i want done. I'm then quoted on that job and the time it will take; lets say 500k a day for 5 days for this particular job. so I pay up for the time its going to take now and the job starts. At the end of the 5 days it drops in my hanger and the slot is freed up.
Problem solved.
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EveJunkie
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Posted - 2004.11.02 05:31:00 -
[22]
Could always change the system so that you pay for a particualr piece of reserch to be done then the slot frees up. If you were chaged in advance for the reserch it would discorage blocking the slots for years at a time (as is done atm). Ofc if slots were easyier to get they wouldnt need to be held and the whole thing would be more fluid.
So for example. If i have a BP I wanted reserched to ME10. I find a reserch station, select the BP and the process i want done. I'm then quoted on that job and the time it will take; lets say 500k a day for 5 days for this particular job. so I pay up for the time its going to take now and the job starts. At the end of the 5 days it drops in my hanger and the slot is freed up.
Problem solved.
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Petr Sorokin
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Posted - 2004.11.02 05:48:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Petr Sorokin on 02/11/2004 05:51:49
Problem of course is that Supply doesn't equal Demand in Eve. # of lab slots is fixed and demand is high so prices should rise, massively higher than they are now until such point as Supply=Demand.
Because prices are low, and you can pay for them anywhere it is trivial to have alts loaded up with slots researching Shuttles. If it cost 10,000,000 a week for a lab slot then surprise surprise all the alts would drop their slots. Not to say that is a fair price or anything but it shows quite easily that the biggest reason slots are in scarce supply is that it is easy and cheap to horde them even if you don't need them and aren't using them.
So make it less cheap, or less easy to horde them. Getting rid of alts. would also help ;)
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Petr Sorokin
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Posted - 2004.11.02 05:48:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Petr Sorokin on 02/11/2004 05:51:49
Problem of course is that Supply doesn't equal Demand in Eve. # of lab slots is fixed and demand is high so prices should rise, massively higher than they are now until such point as Supply=Demand.
Because prices are low, and you can pay for them anywhere it is trivial to have alts loaded up with slots researching Shuttles. If it cost 10,000,000 a week for a lab slot then surprise surprise all the alts would drop their slots. Not to say that is a fair price or anything but it shows quite easily that the biggest reason slots are in scarce supply is that it is easy and cheap to horde them even if you don't need them and aren't using them.
So make it less cheap, or less easy to horde them. Getting rid of alts. would also help ;)
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Clone 410
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Posted - 2004.11.02 07:24:00 -
[25]
Yeah I'm getting very bored of having a huge portion of the game closed off. If it doesn't change post-Shiva then me and probably a lot of other people are just going to start looking for other games :(
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Clone 410
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Posted - 2004.11.02 07:24:00 -
[26]
Yeah I'm getting very bored of having a huge portion of the game closed off. If it doesn't change post-Shiva then me and probably a lot of other people are just going to start looking for other games :(
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Shakul
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Posted - 2004.11.02 08:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Clone 410
Yeah I'm getting very bored of having a huge portion of the game closed off. If it doesn't change post-Shiva then me and probably a lot of other people are just going to start looking for other games :(
you pay 100mil+insurance for a battleship, cant you pay 5mil for a lab? Besides, you could easily be paying 1mil/day when lab prices stabilize.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Shakul
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Posted - 2004.11.02 08:34:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Clone 410
Yeah I'm getting very bored of having a huge portion of the game closed off. If it doesn't change post-Shiva then me and probably a lot of other people are just going to start looking for other games :(
you pay 100mil+insurance for a battleship, cant you pay 5mil for a lab? Besides, you could easily be paying 1mil/day when lab prices stabilize.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Anssett
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Posted - 2004.11.02 09:29:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Clone 410
Yeah I'm getting very bored of having a huge portion of the game closed off. If it doesn't change post-Shiva then me and probably a lot of other people are just going to start looking for other games :(
I understand your frustration - had it before the slots doubled
but what huge portion of the game are you missing?
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Anssett
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Posted - 2004.11.02 09:29:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Clone 410
Yeah I'm getting very bored of having a huge portion of the game closed off. If it doesn't change post-Shiva then me and probably a lot of other people are just going to start looking for other games :(
I understand your frustration - had it before the slots doubled
but what huge portion of the game are you missing?
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Urkl
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Posted - 2004.11.02 14:38:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Shakul
you pay 100mil+insurance for a battleship, cant you pay 5mil for a lab? Besides, you could easily be paying 1mil/day when lab prices stabilize.
I'd glady pay 5M for a lab slot IF I could:
#1 Use a reliable method of purchase. "Send me your isk and I'll free up a slot, honest!" just doesn't appeal to me.
#2 Be assured that my 5M wouldn't be a total waste due to the infamous "unrenting bug."
The problem here is more than just simple scarcity IMO.
*** ***** ***** ***** ** ***** ** **** *** *****. |
Urkl
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Posted - 2004.11.02 14:38:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Shakul
you pay 100mil+insurance for a battleship, cant you pay 5mil for a lab? Besides, you could easily be paying 1mil/day when lab prices stabilize.
I'd glady pay 5M for a lab slot IF I could:
#1 Use a reliable method of purchase. "Send me your isk and I'll free up a slot, honest!" just doesn't appeal to me.
#2 Be assured that my 5M wouldn't be a total waste due to the infamous "unrenting bug."
The problem here is more than just simple scarcity IMO.
*** ***** ***** ***** ** ***** ** **** *** *****. |
Drefsab
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Posted - 2004.11.02 14:50:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Drefsab on 02/11/2004 14:55:06
Im in the same situation with one of my other accounts, bought it purely to do research and r&d agent missions but then when you finally get a slot you loose it to a bug and have a gm tell you you cant have it back. This is most annoying.
As for the matter of people saying its important I beg to differ. If i play this game to sit there and research all day thats my choice and I should be able to as thats advertised as one of the things you can do as a profession. Sure I have a pvp char and I kill things and love it but there are people that dont want that and ccp shouldnt be making their chosen profession so much harder.
The way I see it CCP have nerfed pirating, trading, manufacture (though this is more to do with market stagnation than anything), bounty hunting and researching. Thats a hell of a lot of things that are almost impossable to do. I see that ccp is just trying to ballence the game but they seam to be working on combat more than anything leaving out all the other professions.
Adding a few more slots wont cure anything tbh though because if i dock at a station and see 10 free slots, I rent them all and distrobute them to my alt accounts and friends.
"Death Before Dishonor" |
Drefsab
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Posted - 2004.11.02 14:50:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Drefsab on 02/11/2004 14:55:06
Im in the same situation with one of my other accounts, bought it purely to do research and r&d agent missions but then when you finally get a slot you loose it to a bug and have a gm tell you you cant have it back. This is most annoying.
As for the matter of people saying its important I beg to differ. If i play this game to sit there and research all day thats my choice and I should be able to as thats advertised as one of the things you can do as a profession. Sure I have a pvp char and I kill things and love it but there are people that dont want that and ccp shouldnt be making their chosen profession so much harder.
The way I see it CCP have nerfed pirating, trading, manufacture (though this is more to do with market stagnation than anything), bounty hunting and researching. Thats a hell of a lot of things that are almost impossable to do. I see that ccp is just trying to ballence the game but they seam to be working on combat more than anything leaving out all the other professions.
Adding a few more slots wont cure anything tbh though because if i dock at a station and see 10 free slots, I rent them all and distrobute them to my alt accounts and friends.
"Death Before Dishonor" |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.02 15:49:00 -
[35]
WTS: Lab slot in Korama, 20mil minimum.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.02 15:49:00 -
[36]
WTS: Lab slot in Korama, 20mil minimum.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
SithEwok
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Posted - 2004.11.03 10:28:00 -
[37]
Lab slots are dumb. Either make infinite slots ccp, or lose them. New players comming in dont have the chance 1year vets have to research.
Offices are dumb. *see above description for lab slots.
This only applys to offices
-------ONLY IN EMPIRE--------- <---line drawn.
c?
simple huh.
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SithEwok
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Posted - 2004.11.03 10:28:00 -
[38]
Lab slots are dumb. Either make infinite slots ccp, or lose them. New players comming in dont have the chance 1year vets have to research.
Offices are dumb. *see above description for lab slots.
This only applys to offices
-------ONLY IN EMPIRE--------- <---line drawn.
c?
simple huh.
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CmdoColin
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Posted - 2004.11.03 11:46:00 -
[39]
Personally don't get it. If I want a lab slot in empire I get one. I've never had more than 24 hours before needing one, and getting it.
I don't even look particularily hard - just find one where missions and sales and purchances take me. Either I'm monumantally lucky - but I've had about 7 lab slots like this.
Audita et altera pars |
CmdoColin
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Posted - 2004.11.03 11:46:00 -
[40]
Personally don't get it. If I want a lab slot in empire I get one. I've never had more than 24 hours before needing one, and getting it.
I don't even look particularily hard - just find one where missions and sales and purchances take me. Either I'm monumantally lucky - but I've had about 7 lab slots like this.
Audita et altera pars |
Shakul
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Posted - 2004.11.03 12:11:00 -
[41]
Originally by: CmdoColin
Personally don't get it. If I want a lab slot in empire I get one. I've never had more than 24 hours before needing one, and getting it.
I don't even look particularily hard - just find one where missions and sales and purchances take me. Either I'm monumantally lucky - but I've had about 7 lab slots like this.
Same here, I had 10 at one point, but lost 2 to bugs, so now i have 8.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Shakul
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Posted - 2004.11.03 12:11:00 -
[42]
Originally by: CmdoColin
Personally don't get it. If I want a lab slot in empire I get one. I've never had more than 24 hours before needing one, and getting it.
I don't even look particularily hard - just find one where missions and sales and purchances take me. Either I'm monumantally lucky - but I've had about 7 lab slots like this.
Same here, I had 10 at one point, but lost 2 to bugs, so now i have 8.
Auction your items for isk, works sort of like ebay. |
Kali omi
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Posted - 2004.11.03 12:57:00 -
[43]
U are just lucky. I look for an slot now for 2 month to research some ammo and missle bps- no way to get one. For buying an slot the payback woud be gone. Also how can i be shure i get the slot when i payed 5+ mio ??
Not that BIG problem for me but annoying.
For new player corps who wants to build up an corp its only frustrating- no labslots no offices. I think the older players will kill the game this way by holding all slots and offices, lots of new players will leave cause the see that they get no chanse to build something up without making the older players bigger and richer by every step.
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Kali omi
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Posted - 2004.11.03 12:57:00 -
[44]
U are just lucky. I look for an slot now for 2 month to research some ammo and missle bps- no way to get one. For buying an slot the payback woud be gone. Also how can i be shure i get the slot when i payed 5+ mio ??
Not that BIG problem for me but annoying.
For new player corps who wants to build up an corp its only frustrating- no labslots no offices. I think the older players will kill the game this way by holding all slots and offices, lots of new players will leave cause the see that they get no chanse to build something up without making the older players bigger and richer by every step.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.03 13:02:00 -
[45]
Of course if you remove research are you going to refund the huge amount of hours poeple have invested in their research skills? Will they be able to re-allocate to the battleship and outgun you in a day?
It seems to me it would be better to fix the system.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.03 13:02:00 -
[46]
Of course if you remove research are you going to refund the huge amount of hours poeple have invested in their research skills? Will they be able to re-allocate to the battleship and outgun you in a day?
It seems to me it would be better to fix the system.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.11.04 21:57:00 -
[47]
kill copying, leave the research slots for research. leave the production to people who will invenst in the bpo's.
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Ris Dnalor
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Posted - 2004.11.04 21:57:00 -
[48]
kill copying, leave the research slots for research. leave the production to people who will invenst in the bpo's.
--
Jump Drive Operation / Rank 5 / SP: 1280000 of 1280000
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Kadarin
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Posted - 2004.11.05 09:01:00 -
[49]
Put a cap on the ME to which any given bpo can be researched, and charge some sum of isk per copy made?
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Kadarin
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Posted - 2004.11.05 09:01:00 -
[50]
Put a cap on the ME to which any given bpo can be researched, and charge some sum of isk per copy made?
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.05 10:03:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
kill copying, leave the research slots for research. leave the production to people who will invenst in the bpo's.
Allow copying, but do not let PE + ME to transfer to the copy.
BPC's might still sell, but producers with BPO's will have a huge market advantage when it comes to pricing.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.05 10:03:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Ris Dnalor
kill copying, leave the research slots for research. leave the production to people who will invenst in the bpo's.
Allow copying, but do not let PE + ME to transfer to the copy.
BPC's might still sell, but producers with BPO's will have a huge market advantage when it comes to pricing.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
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