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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Wiley Peterson
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:36:00 -
[211]
I am not that tech savvy when it comes to these things, but what kind of investigation did CCP do to confirm that the account was actually hacked?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:37:00 -
[212]
Originally by: Ukucia
Originally by: Ranger 1
Quote: Another possibility is CCP is claiming it's RMTers, but it was someone with a grudge using a keylogger developed by RMTers.
Again, possible. But why would CCP care enough to lie about it?
CCP wouldn't know. To them, it would look just like a keylogger used by an RMTer. They have no way of knowing if the info was sent to an IP owned by a RMTer or owned by someone out to hurt CVA.
Ahh, I'm with you now. Frankly, thats not all that far fetched. It would certainly explain the extra step taken to hit "disband". In fact, I really ought to go re-read the thread in CAOD by the person claiming to have done this with that very possibility in mind. The "infiltration" part could be a red herring, but the grudge issue could be more firmly based in reality.
Still, the important thing is that things have been set right.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
brutoid
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:43:00 -
[213]
Originally by: Nebulous if you expect me to believe a director of one of the most succesful alliances in EVE got turned over by an isk seller then you are sadly mistaken.
It does make me wonder what odds the bookies would put on something like that. Be interesting to know how many directors of well known alliances have been keylogged before over the many years they have been playing the game?
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Jason Edwards
Internet Tough Guy
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:47:00 -
[214]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
CCP's CA or directory could have also been compromised. ISP(ccp's or his) could have been compromised. His wireless access point might have been compromised. None of these are very likely because if true. There would be epic amounts of ALLERRRT!!!
The real question is... how was it haxed? I think we should be privy to this information. Too many potential issues which may impact many other people; especially due to being as high profile as CVA executor corp account and the fact that the alliance was recreated etc etc. ------------------------ To make a megathron from scratch, you must first invent the eve universe. ------------------------ Life sucks and then you get podded. |
Wiley Peterson
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:52:00 -
[215]
Originally by: brutoid
Originally by: Nebulous if you expect me to believe a director of one of the most succesful alliances in EVE got turned over by an isk seller then you are sadly mistaken.
It does make me wonder what odds the bookies would put on something like that. Be interesting to know how many directors of well known alliances have been keylogged before over the many years they have been playing the game?
I agree, it seems more likely a meta-gamer who may have used a keylogger or some other method of obtaining the account info. I doubt he did it to himself, what would be the point of that if you just got everything back to the way it was the very next day?
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Capt Fossil
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:57:00 -
[216]
Slightly OT, BUT, this is the first big trouble for anyone thread I have seen without some Goon at least making sly comments. Laying low for some reason?
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Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives Beer and Smoke Federation
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Posted - 2009.10.29 21:59:00 -
[217]
Originally by: Capt Fossil Slightly OT, BUT, this is the first big trouble for anyone thread I have seen without some Goon at least making sly comments. Laying low for some reason?
Their alts on the other hand are going into overdrive.
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Titan Pilot
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:03:00 -
[218]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
No apology necessary. I think your efforts to combat this problem have been outstanding and there will be casualties like CVA.
You folks did the right things and the end result makes me proud to play this game. o/
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Capt Fossil
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:07:00 -
[219]
Originally by: Bumblefck Their alts on the other hand are going into overdrive.
K, Thks for clearing that up. I thought maybe it was weight watchers night for you guyz.
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Lucjan
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:19:00 -
[220]
hope AAA is next... then goons...
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Oli Robbo
Gallente Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:24:00 -
[221]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler After receiving a petition from CVA regarding their alliance being disbanded we launched an investigation as per our policy. Our experience in similar situations has often been that accounts were not hacked but, rather, the alliances were disbanded due to failed payment or enemy infiltration. In this case, however, we discovered that the account of the alliance executor was hacked by ISK sellers.
CCP needs you to help us fight RMT by not buying ISK! It may seem like a minor thing to do, all things considered, but keep in mind that these people steal credit cards and hack accounts to get ISK to sell. By choosing to purchase their ISK you are creating a demand for their services and the illegal activities that support them.
Ok, so obviously the account holder in question has been buying ISK, therefore he should be banned no?
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Aquillar
Minmatar Intergalactic Combined Technologies The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:24:00 -
[222]
Originally by: Jason Edwards CCP's CA or directory could have also been compromised. ISP(ccp's or his) could have been compromised. His wireless access point might have been compromised. None of these are very likely because if true. There would be epic amounts of ALLERRRT!!!
Their SSL cert is SHA-1 signed, there has been no attacks shown to generate a hard collision on this yet. You would definitely hear about it if it was done (think MD5 certs), and I highly doubt the first use of this attack would be for ISK harvesting.
Originally by: Jason Edwards The real question is... how was it haxed? I think we should be privy to this information. Too many potential issues which may impact many other people; especially due to being as high profile as CVA executor corp account and the fact that the alliance was recreated etc etc.
Thank you, this is what I'm trying to point out. Since we don't have the victim of the CVA attack on here explaining his situation, I am explaining mine.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:27:00 -
[223]
The mob demands a witch! For how could there be a witch hunt without a witch?
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Capt Fossil
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.10.29 22:32:00 -
[224]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 The mob demands a witch! For how could there be a witch hunt without a witch?
Witches?...hmm ahh yes A Belgian witch called Claire Goessen confessed in 1603 that she had flown to sabbats several times on a staff smeared with an unguent. In northern France in 1460, five women confessed to receiving a salve from the Devil himself, which they rubbed on their hands and on a small wooden rod they placed between their legs ...
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Aethrwolf
Caldari Podrratu
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Posted - 2009.10.30 00:10:00 -
[225]
Interesting.. apparently CCP doesnt believe in the Butterfly Effect even though they tout it as crucial to EVE. Following the BE train of thought, no account, no matter what that toon's position is, is more important than any other. Yet, CCP ramrodded an investigation on this one account most likely because of the perceived mass impact it had in game. How can you be sure that the hacked account investigations still waiting to be resolved had any LESS impact in the game? You can't. Likely you are correct that this would have more impact than others, but IMHO you showed blatant favoritism and set a bad example. Also, how can the investigations that are taking longer be "diligently" worked upon, yet take SO much longer? How fast was this one compared to others? Honestly this doesnt look like there WAS an investigation.. more of a case of someone being told to "fix" a problem regardless of the causes. Knowing about the BoB case and CCP's history with BoB I really wonder about this one since dev's have been touting CVA in blogs and responses in the forums about Dominion. Kind of embarrassing to have your example alliance fall apart, isnt it?
Happy for CVA's players, unhappy for the precedence given and the appearance of a rush investigation. In most things quality and speed are inversely proportional. Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Ranger002
Minmatar High Guard Command
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Posted - 2009.10.30 00:33:00 -
[226]
Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 29/10/2009 16:09:44 Isk seller gets account information: Check. Isk seller cleans out alliance/corp wallet/assets: Check. Isk seller disbands alliance for no apparent reason: Wat?
I suppose it could be an act of reprisal for CCP making life difficult for them lately, but it does seem odd.
Revenge for Unholy Rage is the most logical conclusion for why they disbanded CVA
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.30 00:42:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Aethrwolf unhappy for the precedence given and the appearance of a rush investigation. In most things quality and speed are inversely proportional.
All they had to do was check the ip log for the account and see if it was accessed from a known isk seller at the time of the incedent and see where the assets were transfered to ban those accounts. Not really much to investigate after that. If others take a while to process well to be fair a players account that was hacked that had no impact on the greater game has less priority to the petition team than one that effects thousands of players. There are only so many warm bodies to handle the literal thousands of daily petitions so someone is always going to be at the back of the line and waiting.
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Oscardoodle
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.30 01:12:00 -
[228]
So TLDR version is thus?:
-CVA Director buys isk. -Isk seller disbands CVA for epic lulz. -CCP reinstates CVA. -CVA Director is banned(?)
Ban the ****er.
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Msgerbs
Gallente Imperial Assualt Guild Raikiri Assasins
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Posted - 2009.10.30 01:26:00 -
[229]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
READ stupid people, READ! Director WAS NOT buying isk. PS: This is not part of my signature
------ C&P wannabe
WTB 5 minutes |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.30 01:34:00 -
[230]
Originally by: Msgerbs
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
READ stupid people, READ! Director WAS NOT buying isk.
But why was the CVA director buying isk?
...
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small chimp
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Posted - 2009.10.30 01:45:00 -
[231]
can someone confirm/deny those rumors that ccp officially stated that they are happy with the alliance disbanding mechanics and are not going to change it?!?!
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Oscardoodle
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.10.30 01:56:00 -
[232]
Originally by: Msgerbs
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
READ stupid people, READ! Director WAS NOT buying isk.
READ BETWEEN THE LINES YOU FOOL!
OH I SEE HOW IT IS!
*slips $20*
THERE.
Srsly tho, if the guy didn't buy isk and was legitimately hacked because he is JUST THAT FAIL, I hope he is now filing for bankruptcy protection .
Logic dictates that, DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN he's an isk buyer. CVA brown nosers, learn to deal with the truth.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.10.30 01:56:00 -
[233]
Originally by: small chimp can someone confirm/deny those rumors that ccp officially stated that they are happy with the alliance disbanding mechanics and are not going to change it?!?!
I Zeba hereby confirm/deny that ccp officially stated that they are happy with the alliance disbanding mechanics and are not going to change it.
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Lorieen
AQ Militis Seprentia
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Posted - 2009.10.30 02:03:00 -
[234]
Originally by: Msgerbs
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
READ stupid people, READ! Director WAS NOT buying isk.
Personally if he was not buying isk I would still remove his account from any high ranking position in the alliance since he has a prob with security of his account. Unless someone spent a long time using a brute force on his password either it wasn't very secure to begin with or he has been clicking places and links he should have never been to begin with. I know account can be hacked but unless it was a weakness on CCP side then it was a weakness on his end.
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Kolatha
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Posted - 2009.10.30 02:43:00 -
[235]
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2
Originally by: Nebulous
Originally by: MatrixSkye Mk2 Thanks for clearing this, Wrangler. But the CVA haters and the perma-tinfoil-hat wearers will not be satisfied until you turn over a witch for their witch hunt.
For what it's worth thanks for clearing up any doubts there might have been against the CEO.
Yes because the community should take the word of CCP as bond, because their has never been any previous incidents of Developer misconduct now has there?
Mud sticks.
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I love it! No matter what CCP says they'll be wrong. When they say blue, it's because it's green. When they say green, it's because it's pink inside and they don't want to admit it. You peeps have been wearing those hats for too long, seriously.
And this is exactly what the isk sellers probably wished to achieve.
Reading through the posts it seems that a lot of people find the fact that the hacker, after first disposing of the hacked account's assets, decided to then go on and disband the alliance to be the oddity that changes this incident from a simple hacked account situation into something a whole lot more suspicious. What many don't seem to realise is that the account hacking, forum spam and incidents like this are more about vengeance for the unholy rage event, with making isk and money secondary.
The idea is that by disrupting the player's ability to play and enjoy the game as much as possible they are sending a message. And that message is simply "either let us back in or we will destroy your game". You haven't seen this type of effect in other games because no other MMO has done anything as serious or as effective as Unholy Rage. The RMTers are now preying on the one thing that can bring down a company like CCP, trust. Trust between the customer, you, and the company.
This now leads us to the CVA disbanding. Disbanding such a high profile alliance is obviously something that would bring undue attention to the whole RMT issue, something that the RMTers would obviously not want. This leads the more paranoid players to suspect something more. All it then takes is for one of the RMTer's observer characters to start sowing the seeds of dissent on the forums by posting something along the lines of "something smells rotten here" and the sheep and tinfoil crowd will converge and spread the meme like measles in a kindergarten.
This is pretty simple but effective form of corporate sabotage that works by making damage control look like some form of cover up so that no matter what the victim corporation does, no matter how much they support and help their customers through the issue, they will always look like the bad guy. The worst part of the incident is that the distrust is already there over the perceived poor handling of hacked accounts and this CVA disbanding only acts as fertiliser.
Unfortunately the only real way to combat this is to send the RMTers out of business, because while ever they are still active they will be constantly tending to these seeds of distrust until CCP caves in one way or the other.
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Nebulous
Minmatar Salvage Junkies
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Posted - 2009.10.30 05:43:00 -
[236]
Going to keep this simple, if CCP want us to believe this story they need to show us exactly how it was proved a hack, and not just CCP helping out there old CSM mate Hardin.
Untill then I'm staying sceptical on the whole thing.
P.S. when are BOB getting all their stuffs back? I doubt they will, but the only reason is that they had been seen helping BOB before and to help them again would have just caused way to much of an upset, CVA who have never had any signs of help from CCP before are on a clean slate, and so CCP can help them out with only limited resistance. Not saying this is the truth, i'm just saying this is how it looks.
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Shade Millith
Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.10.30 05:58:00 -
[237]
Originally by: Nebulous P.S. when are BOB getting all their stuffs back? I doubt they will, but the only reason is that they had been seen helping BOB before and to help them again would have just caused way to much of an upset, CVA who have never had any signs of help from CCP before are on a clean slate, and so CCP can help them out with only limited resistance. Not saying this is the truth, i'm just saying this is how it looks.
No, the thing is, is that in BOB's case there isn't any proof of it being a hacked account. It's a stupid mechanic, yes, but these two instances are different.
CVA's case however, (from what I understand) the IP used when the alliance was disbanded, was from Europe, instead of from the US where the player lived, and was done in the usual Europe timezone, when US players are asleep. --------------------------------------------
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Machanara
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.10.30 06:22:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Nebulous Going to keep this simple, if CCP want us to believe this story they need to show us exactly how it was proved a hack, and not just CCP helping out there old CSM mate Hardin.
Untill then I'm staying sceptical on the whole thing.
P.S. when are BOB getting all their stuffs back? I doubt they will, but the only reason is that they had been seen helping BOB before and to help them again would have just caused way to much of an upset, CVA who have never had any signs of help from CCP before are on a clean slate, and so CCP can help them out with only limited resistance. Not saying this is the truth, i'm just saying this is how it looks.
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Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want. But CCP is under no obligation to you or anyone else to "prove" anything. They are the ones who are running and calling the shots.
So I will keep it simple for you as well....
If you don't like the way they handle things, then you and anyone else who doesn't like it can leave. Pretty simple, yes?
Don't let the door kick you in the head on the way out.
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fooMiNiOn
Space Lobsters Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.10.30 06:51:00 -
[239]
Yes, all of the asshats who say it's unfair, why does an alliance get re-instated !?!?! No fair, wah wah. People hack. People make key-loggers. People make viruses. They get off from doing it.
EVERYONE here who is in disagreement with how CCP handled this with CVA... I DARE YOU to file a petition in game, and be as brave and ****y and belligerent as you are here to a GM, and let me know how you feel after being suspended for a week or two, or longer.. for your behavior.
CCP MADE A DECISION. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, GO PLAY EVERQUEST.
I like cake.
FCON [Space Lobsters] Co-CEO Fleet Admiral & head diplomat |
Azrael Acid
Gallente Space Lobsters Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.10.30 06:54:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Machanara
Originally by: Nebulous Going to keep this simple, if CCP want us to believe this story they need to show us exactly how it was proved a hack, and not just CCP helping out there old CSM mate Hardin.
Untill then I'm staying sceptical on the whole thing.
P.S. when are BOB getting all their stuffs back? I doubt they will, but the only reason is that they had been seen helping BOB before and to help them again would have just caused way to much of an upset, CVA who have never had any signs of help from CCP before are on a clean slate, and so CCP can help them out with only limited resistance. Not saying this is the truth, i'm just saying this is how it looks.
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Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want. But CCP is under no obligation to you or anyone else to "prove" anything. They are the ones who are running and calling the shots.
So I will keep it simple for you as well....
If you don't like the way they handle things, then you and anyone else who doesn't like it can leave. Pretty simple, yes?
Don't let the door kick you in the head on the way out.
And on that note, the discustion should end. Who cares anymore really? Those of you who keep asking for proof.. HMMMMMMMMMM. I wonder, where were you when CVA went down? All cozy in your beds? Or staring intently and a few computer screens HMMMMMMM? I wonder if this whole fiasco is going well as planned by whoever did it. Think people, think.
Thank God, someone who sees reason.
[S.L] Director/Bar Wench/Intelligence Officer
" The only way evil can prevail, is when good men do nothing." |
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