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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Pookie McPook
Nova Synergy PLC
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Posted - 2009.10.30 10:25:00 -
[241]
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
By and large, however, it is going to be massively coincidental if a random hacker with a sideline in EVE ISK selling just "happens" to come across the account login details of a CEO of a major alliance? I would have thought he should have been far more interested in hacking into his RL bank account than a game.
No insinuations, just saying is all.... /shrug -----
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Blane Xero
Amarr The Firestorm Cartel
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Posted - 2009.10.30 10:27:00 -
[242]
Edited by: Blane Xero on 30/10/2009 10:26:37
Originally by: Pookie McPook
Originally by: CCP Wrangler I am sorry if my original post was unclear on this subject, the account was hacked by an ISK seller but I did not intend to insinuate that it was hacked because the account owner was purchasing ISK. There are many ways to get hacked, of course you may be using a weak password or you may use the login credentials for EVE on a third party website and so on. You can also be the victim of a keylogger.
By and large, however, it is going to be massively coincidental if a random hacker with a sideline in EVE ISK selling just "happens" to come across the account login details of a CEO of a major alliance? I would have thought he should have been far more interested in hacking into his RL bank account than a game.
No insinuations, just saying is all.... /shrug
It was a directors account not the god-damn CEO. Train some reading comprehension skills before you bother with your Jumping to Conclusions skill. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout :facepalm:
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Pookie McPook
Nova Synergy PLC
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Posted - 2009.10.30 10:35:00 -
[243]
Originally by: Blane Xero It was a directors account not the god-damn CEO. Train some reading comprehension skills before you bother with your Jumping to Conclusions skill.
I apologise to the CEO and redirect my comment toward the "director" in question. Thank you for drawing it to my attention. -----
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Vyktor Abyss
Gallente The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.10.30 10:55:00 -
[244]
Classy people, classy alliance.
No threadnaught, no whines, no forum smacking with those lacking class enough to post bitter smack towards them in the post-hack period, no animosity.
Glad to see CVA back in business.
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Charleigh
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Posted - 2009.10.30 10:59:00 -
[245]
Edited by: Charleigh on 30/10/2009 11:03:07 Edited by: Charleigh on 30/10/2009 11:02:04 A lot of people fail to realize that in the EULA it pretty much says CCP can do what they want, when they want, with any part of their game. (this includes accounts connected to the game) If they find that an account was hacked, they can say "ok lets restore it." or... tell you to shove off.
If they don't like you, they can tell you tough luck and oops... where'd your account go?
No, these situations don't happen all the time. But read it...
A. By CCP for Termination of the Game CCP does not guarantee that it will continue to offer access to the System or support the Game. CCP may, in its sole discretion, cease to provide any or all of the services offered in connection with EVE (including access to the System and any or all features or components of the Game), terminate the EULA, close all Accounts and cancel all of the rights granted to you under the EULA. CCP may communicate such termination to you upon 30 days notice in any of the following manners: (i) when you log into your Account; (ii) in a notice on CCP's website; (iii) via electronic mail; or (iv) in another manner that CCP deems suitable to inform you of the termination. If CCP terminates the EULA pursuant to this section, you will not receive a refund of prepaid subscription fees.
This more or less they can do as they please.
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Chaibat
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Posted - 2009.10.30 11:49:00 -
[246]
Originally by: Aquillar
When this kind of thing happens, it's pretty obvious. Typically lots of pop-ups and downloads trying to start and things going on. Email is the easiest to detect, even if you have HTML email enabled. No one even knows my EVE email address (Anyone who can successfully send me an email to my EVE email address with their character name will get 1 million ISK from me. Oh ****, is this against the EULA? I'm making an out-of-game ISK deal!!)
--snip--
THIS.
I have trend AV and web rep installed and even going to many of the popular blogging sites for eve (CrazyKinux included) cause security blocks. Visiting a blog might be all that is needed if you don't have decent security.
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Chaibat
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Posted - 2009.10.30 11:55:00 -
[247]
Originally by: Aquillar
Originally by: Ukucia RMTers hack accounts to get ISK to sell to other people. It's a lot faster, easier and cheaper than macroing it or buying it. Being hacked by RMTers doesn't mean you used their services....in fact most RMTers would rather have your repeat business and thus don't target their customers.
This is the point CCP has been trying to drive home to everyone. By using ISK buying services in the first place, you are supporting them in their quest to get more ISK by any means necessary. At the same time, a victim that never did anything wrong is having 5 years of game time reduced to almost nothing.
When I got my account back all my ships were gone except some n00b ships and shuttles, and active was my Daredevil with my True Sansha Warp Disruptor in the cargobay...ready to go. All modules and ships were sold to the highest bidder (as we all know, that's usually not a lot of ISK) or else reprocessed. 5 years worth of assets.
May I ask if you were reimbursed any of the ship value? My main lost a 'phoon when a director's acct was hacked. I logged in just as the hacker was robbing us blind so he *only* got my BS from a corp hanger and 1B in cash. CCP has yet to finish the investigation and I'm curious if I'll be out the entire cost of my ship.
We were lucky. If i hadn't logged in for a little lunch ratting, we would have lost everything.
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Domoso
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Posted - 2009.10.30 12:00:00 -
[248]
This is just another reason why no ONE person should be able to disband an Alliance. In fact, an alliance should only cease to exist if the corporations that make up the alliance disband it by leaving it. Why CCP designed it this way and why they haven't fixed I can't say. But I don't like what it implies.
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Chaibat
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Posted - 2009.10.30 12:01:00 -
[249]
Originally by: Azrael Acid
Quote: I understand why people are upset with CVA disbanding/being hacked. But as ccp wrangler posted it was done because the player went to an isk seller For this reason they should not have been restored "buy isk pay the price" for one of the oldest corps to be found buying isk should make all honest players leave that corp. Those who buy isk are worse than those selling it. Yet i see everyone ignoring the wrongs of CVA and instead praising them for cheating So i have come to understand that if your corp gets big enough you can do as you like however if you are a small corp or solo player there is no help to be found from anywhere.
Sigh... Show of hands: How many people posting in this forum are children? Do you have the wherewithal to actually READ and/or RESEARCH what you are posting about? Do you even have an idea of what's going on? Or are you randomly posting just to post? Seriously, no sarcasm intended. I just want to know.
[insert sarcasm] Take off the tinfoil hats, so this can actually be etched into your cornea and further absorbed into your brain for processing and understanding:
FOR THE LAST TIME: IT WAS NOT A CVA CEO WHO GOT HACKED. IT WAS A DIRECTOR. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO BE AN ISK BUYER TO BE HACKED BY AN ISK SELLER. CCP DID NOT SAY THE DIRECTOR BOUGHT ISK. When you are a victim, how is it any fault of yours? Do **** victims get grief because they were victims and got ****d? Cause that's what happened here. PEOPLE GET HACKED EVERYWHERE ON THE INTERNET, NOT JUST IN EVE.
Thank god you aren't a news reporter, you would have been sued 10 times over and fired for misquoting. Jeez, be informed on what you re posting about before you post and embarrass yourself.
You're giving journalists far too much credit.
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Nuramori
Legio V Fidelus Fidelas Constans
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:00:00 -
[250]
Originally by: Azrael Acid ...
It happened last week to one of my corp mates. He lost everything and the guy who hacked was flying around in his character laughing like a loon, ASKING to be podded for a free ride back to where he'd already moved the jump clone to. My corp mate, got the isk value of his assets back, but can never replace the toon, he spent so much time cultivating. It's really horrible, and I wouldn't wish this on ANYONE. It truly is identity theft. ....
Actually, it happened to two of our guys, within a span of two weeks. One never bought isk, but clicked a forum link, the other was on away for an extended period and hadn't been on in weeks for RL reasons. Main reason I now change my password weekly. There are some very astute IT guys that play eve that get nabbed by hackers, mainly since your average AV package won't see the obtuse and rare EVE specific keylogger, so the odds of being really protected will be rare.
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Aldee
Federated Holdings
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:30:00 -
[251]
Originally by: Azrael Acid Jeez, be informed on what you re posting about before you post and embarrass yourself.Rolling EyesRolling Eyes
Oh please... when was anyone informed on what they are posting about when it comes to eve-o... If you took away all the misinformed forum posts from eve-o there would be a total of like 7 posts on the whole forum.
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ShadowMaiden
Amarr Divine Radiance
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:31:00 -
[252]
Lost an Alliance because you annoyed someone who then infiltrates your Executor corp and disbands it? Then call 1-800 CRYBABY and claim your account was hacked. Our trained operators are ready now to listen to your tale of woe and excuses. Call now and receive a special free gift of restored Sovereignty!
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:37:00 -
[253]
Edited by: Vincent Gaines on 30/10/2009 13:37:51
Originally by: ShadowMaiden Lost an Alliance because you annoyed someone who then infiltrates your Executor corp and disbands it? Then call 1-800 CRYBABY and claim your account was hacked. Our trained operators are ready now to listen to your tale of woe and excuses. Call now and receive a special free gift of restored Sovereignty!
bitter much?
maybe you should read the thread so you don't embarrass yourself.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:41:00 -
[254]
Originally by: ShadowMaiden Lost an Alliance because you annoyed someone who then infiltrates your Executor corp and disbands it? Then call 1-800 CRYBABY and claim your account was hacked. Our trained operators are ready now to listen to your tale of woe and excuses. Call now and receive a special free gift of restored Sovereignty!
Show us on this doll where CVA touched you.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:56:00 -
[255]
Can someone point me towards a "clicking forum link" post, dev blog, whatever, so I can see how clicking on an external link can compromise my PC and lead to my password being taken? I'm not being funny or anything. I run 7, not as Administrator and always keep patched and up to date. I just don't understand how this can happen!
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Colonol Mustang
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.10.30 13:57:00 -
[256]
You dont need an AV package and weekly password changes to be secure! But what you need to do is never use your Eve-Account password / username anywhere else.. especialy not in forums and such cuz they are hacked in like 2min via "sql injection". Also you need to know how to use your OS.. for example Windows 7 comes with a very good firewall and a resource monitor if used correctly thats all you will ever need:)
And now my2cent to isk selling and such.. well first of all CCP can't do anything about those corperations or there websites because selling isk is not illegal even if CCPs EULA says so. That would make it civil law and for that matter those isk sellers dont sell ISK they sell a service and that is the time it takes to make to ISKs. In short they sell working hours which is not illegal last time I checked:) If I remember correctly Blizzard filled a lawsuit against one of those sellers a years back and LOST! So CCP will never sue them cuz if you lose a lawsuit youre screwed.. as it sands now they can remove ISKs and ban your for buyin ISKs (even if those isks arent form hacked accounts what so ever) but if a court rules against a lawsuit form CCP against those sellers and says its valid to sell then ccp cant even do that anymore.
Right now CCPs stand is ISK have no value which is a lie because CCP has given them a value when they invented PLEX and GTC trading. So CCPs chances to win a lawsuit would be rather slim. And not just that losing would have far more serve consequences for CCP because if ISKs have a real value so have chars/accounts/assets.. which would take there right away to just ban you if they feel like it. Cuz then they would have to pay you for your loses..
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Stratio
Minmatar Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.10.30 14:55:00 -
[257]
Edited by: Stratio on 30/10/2009 15:02:23
Originally by: Domoso This is just another reason why no ONE person should be able to disband an Alliance.
I totally agree.
Disbanding an alliance should be harder than war deccing a corp, not easier. _____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Serge Galtier
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Posted - 2009.10.30 16:12:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Colonol Mustang You dont need an AV package and weekly password changes to be secure! But what you need to do is never use your Eve-Account password / username anywhere else.. especialy not in forums and such cuz they are hacked in like 2min via "sql injection". Also you need to know how to use your OS.. for example Windows 7 comes with a very good firewall and a resource monitor if used correctly thats all you will ever need:)
And now my2cent to isk selling and such.. well first of all CCP can't do anything about those corperations or there websites because selling isk is not illegal even if CCPs EULA says so. That would make it civil law and for that matter those isk sellers dont sell ISK they sell a service and that is the time it takes to make to ISKs. In short they sell working hours which is not illegal last time I checked:) If I remember correctly Blizzard filled a lawsuit against one of those sellers a years back and LOST! So CCP will never sue them cuz if you lose a lawsuit youre screwed.. as it sands now they can remove ISKs and ban your for buyin ISKs (even if those isks arent form hacked accounts what so ever) but if a court rules against a lawsuit form CCP against those sellers and says its valid to sell then ccp cant even do that anymore.
Right now CCPs stand is ISK have no value which is a lie because CCP has given them a value when they invented PLEX and GTC trading. So CCPs chances to win a lawsuit would be rather slim. And not just that losing would have far more serve consequences for CCP because if ISKs have a real value so have chars/accounts/assets.. which would take there right away to just ban you if they feel like it. Cuz then they would have to pay you for your loses..
Wrong The EULA determines what you can and can't do with software period. Real world legalities have nothing to do with the ability to ban an account. They may have lost a civil suit against them for selling gold/isk but that still doesn't change that you the user are bound by the EULA, and if that states using software for making and selling the games currency is a violation then you can be banned. Hell if they say, you can't say pink in local then you can be banned for saying pink in local. To my current knowledge while shrink-wrap EULA have been challenged I think they have always been upheld by the US courts anyway.
Serge
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Aethrwolf
Caldari Podrratu
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Posted - 2009.10.30 16:18:00 -
[259]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: Aethrwolf unhappy for the precedence given and the appearance of a rush investigation. In most things quality and speed are inversely proportional.
All they had to do was check the ip log for the account and see if it was accessed from a known isk seller at the time of the incedent and see where the assets were transfered to ban those accounts. Not really much to investigate after that. If others take a while to process well to be fair a players account that was hacked that had no impact on the greater game has less priority to the petition team than one that effects thousands of players. There are only so many warm bodies to handle the literal thousands of daily petitions so someone is always going to be at the back of the line and waiting.
All of which just shows that no one at CCP really understands the butterfly effect or likely any other part of chaos theory. There is no way under the butterfly effect to be sure that any account is more important to EVE than any other account. Also they may have unintentionally done more harm than good by "fixing" the problem. Think about it.. how many posts did you see offering support to CVA's players while this was going on? This whole situation could have been perfect for CCP's vision of nullsec space after Dominion. CVA would have had all those players coming in to help them hold their space while they reclaimed sov.. would have built new friendships, destroyed some old animosities.. Role Players or not, this could have changed the face of CVA. CCP could have done a lot of things to unobtrusively kept the situation from total collapse, though I admit the timing was horrible from their point of view with Dominion so close and all the time they have to devote to that. I'm not saying that they were WRONG to react how they did, just that they COULD have been wrong. We can never really be sure on that.
6 of one thing, half a dozen of another. What's done is done. Fly safe CVA pilots, and remember all those who x'd up for defense despite being "enemies" Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers Elysium.
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Posted - 2009.10.30 16:57:00 -
[260]
Just throwing my support to CVA.
You guys rock, hackers are s****and the tinfoil hat crowd need to be sent to a room with nice posture-pedic wallpaper where they cannot harm themselves.
I'll go on the record say that I've not yet been to CVA space but corpmates have and come back and told the tale of their courage and hospitality. They are the good of EVE and I, for one, am glad CCP is treating them well.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2009.10.30 16:59:00 -
[261]
Originally by: Aethrwolf I'm not saying that they were WRONG to react how they did, just that they COULD have been wrong. We can never really be sure on that.
Out of game happenings vs ingame happenings.
If CCP had let this stick, it legitimises out of game actions, and trivialises ingame actions.
e.g. to take space from an opposing alliance, what do you do? A. Direct assault, shooting their stuff. B. Indirect assault, shoot their allies to cause dramaz, changing the political map, reducing their defences. C. Covert attacks, spys, traitors, infiltrators, to destroy the defences. D. Use out of game methods, obtain account names/passwords to destroy the organisation.
A, B, C, involve playing Eve. D, doesn't. If you allow D then what is the point of A, B or C?
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Aethrwolf
Caldari Podrratu
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Posted - 2009.10.30 17:05:00 -
[262]
Originally by: Shirley Serious
Originally by: Aethrwolf I'm not saying that they were WRONG to react how they did, just that they COULD have been wrong. We can never really be sure on that.
Out of game happenings vs ingame happenings.
If CCP had let this stick, it legitimises out of game actions, and trivialises ingame actions.
e.g. to take space from an opposing alliance, what do you do? A. Direct assault, shooting their stuff. B. Indirect assault, shoot their allies to cause dramaz, changing the political map, reducing their defences. C. Covert attacks, spys, traitors, infiltrators, to destroy the defences. D. Use out of game methods, obtain account names/passwords to destroy the organisation.
A, B, C, involve playing Eve. D, doesn't. If you allow D then what is the point of A, B or C?
I'm sorry. I should have clarified that I wasnt referring to them fixing something caused by out of game means, I was referring to them jumping this hacking investigation ahead of all the others currently in process.. I admit I got a bit sidetracked and muddied the waters even more, so again, I apologize for not clarifying. Absolutely everything is subjective. |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.30 17:06:00 -
[263]
Given their reputation with hypcrisy I'm willing to bet that the parties responsible for the out-of-game attack are probably some of the same kiddies that tout "it's just a game FFS!1!".
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Darkdood
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Posted - 2009.10.30 17:19:00 -
[264]
I'm sure somewhere in these post people have pointed this out but I feel the need to highlight it.
NOWHERE IN CCP's POST DID IT SAY CVA BOUGHT ISK!!!
Get a grip people. What they said is that an ISK SELLER somehow got access to to a CVA directors account. They liquidated items they had access to in corp hangars etc and then took the isk. As a parting gift they disbanded CVA.
You don't have to buy isk to get hacked. 99% of the time the hacks come from the REAL WORLD. IE - links on mesg boards that go to sites with virus's etc. Buying isk doens't mean YOU get hacked. Buying isk means someone else got hacked to provide that isk. What CCP is saying is that many times when you buy isk YOU ARE RECEIVING STOLEN GOODS. In the real world people go to jail for that.
Bottom line don't buy isk.
Owe and stop making stupid assumptions. Makes you look like asses.
To CVA. Grats on the proper outcome for a messed up situation.
To -a- and U'K. Base on the mesg board posts I've seen you guys did the right thing and backed up CVA (your rival) in the face or a horrible metagaming situation. If thats true... then hats off to you. Love you or hate you I gained allot of respect for you.
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Shirley Serious
Amarr The Khanid Sisters of Athra
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Posted - 2009.10.30 17:46:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Aethrwolf I'm sorry. I should have clarified that I wasnt referring to them fixing something caused by out of game means, I was referring to them jumping this hacking investigation ahead of all the others currently in process.. I admit I got a bit sidetracked and muddied the waters even more, so again, I apologize for not clarifying.
What is the normal response time for a first response to a petition of this nature? Do you get a quick "Thank you for bringing this to our attention" acknowledgement, then more messages later?
I guess it also depends on how the CCP staff/GMs investigate things. and what the petitions asked about. And how much detail was in them. And what tools are available to look at the situation.
E.g. the CVA people knew the precise timeframe and which character did it. Compare to someone who says "I was hacked some time in the last week", then there's a lot more data to sift through.
And the alliance thing may have been easy to deal with. Any other actions that happened to the account in question may still be being investigated.
Yes. Yes, I am. |
Jarvis Hellstrom
Gallente The Flying Tigers Elysium.
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Posted - 2009.10.30 17:58:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Shirley Serious What is the normal response time for a first response to a petition of this nature?
I'm sure the tinfoil hat crowd is beside themselves but the real, sensible answer is 'it depends'.
People may call 'favoritism' but dealing with something as big as a large Alliance disbandment really isn't. This is an event that affects a LOT more than just one player and what's in their hangar. It affects hundreds, quite possibly thousands of players, both those in CVA, their enemies, their allies their trade and industry partners, any market that they regularly participate in etc.
In short, it's a HUGE event that just happened to take place because of the single point of failure system in the Alliance system (which clearly needs fixing). So yes, people, it makes perfect sense that something of this scale gets popped to the top of the 'Get this fixed NOW queue."
Indeed, anything but that would be extremely poor customer service. CCP did precisely the right thing.
Period.
May God stand between you and harm in all the Empty places you must walk
(Old Egyptian Blessing) |
Darkdood
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Posted - 2009.10.30 18:10:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Darkdood on 30/10/2009 18:10:26
Originally by: Jarvis Hellstrom
I'm sure the tinfoil hat crowd is beside themselves but the real, sensible answer is 'it depends'.
People may call 'favoritism' but dealing with something as big as a large Alliance disbandment really isn't. This is an event that affects a LOT more than just one player and what's in their hangar. It affects hundreds, quite possibly thousands of players, both those in CVA, their enemies, their allies their trade and industry partners, any market that they regularly participate in etc.
In short, it's a HUGE event that just happened to take place because of the single point of failure system in the Alliance system (which clearly needs fixing). So yes, people, it makes perfect sense that something of this scale gets popped to the top of the 'Get this fixed NOW queue."
Indeed, anything but that would be extremely poor customer service. CCP did precisely the right thing.
Period.
I couldn't have said it better.
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Eve696969
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Posted - 2009.10.30 18:59:00 -
[268]
Originally by: ShadowMaiden Lost an Alliance because you annoyed someone who then infiltrates your Executor corp and disbands it? Then call 1-800 CRYBABY and claim your account was hacked. Our trained operators are ready now to listen to your tale of woe and excuses. Call now and receive a special free gift of restored Sovereignty!
This.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.10.30 19:15:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Eve696969
Originally by: ShadowMaiden Lost an Alliance because you annoyed someone who then infiltrates your Executor corp and disbands it? Then call 1-800 CRYBABY and claim your account was hacked. Our trained operators are ready now to listen to your tale of woe and excuses. Call now and receive a special free gift of restored Sovereignty!
This.
Someone ought to start a CVA **** hotline along with a CVA **** support group for the victims. Sooner or later they'll need to deal with the hurt.
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Katsumi1980
Amarr Net 7 The Last Brigade
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Posted - 2009.10.30 20:03:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Zeba
Originally by: ProContractor So why are those websites still up and running ? your doing nothing to the sites itself but only ban chars = whats the poing if your not going after the sites too makes me wonder if ccp is not doing it but let those noobs buy isk and then take it away. isk sellers still makes money and your taking the isk back, sounds like your both are in perfect harmony. more needs to be done to the sites itself, if you take away the sites they have big problem marketing and selling isk/items and so on
Last time I checked the rmt sellers were mostly in china and completely untouchable legaly.
There seems like they should have SOME legal action. I mean a lot of these people, in this game and other games wreck havoc on MMO companies, and if it's true that they do steal credit card info and more, then I'd certainly think there is some kind of physical legal action you could take... If there is ever a way found, and someone gets held responcible: GOD i'd love to be there to watch it happen! Gold spammers and sellers suck!
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