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SCGhozt
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:28:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Tyrathor Banks This mission: Linkage provided me with great satisfaction when the salvager's kestrel went 'pop'. I didnt realise what happened at first until i got a msg from the person and his salvager friend accusing me of destroying the kestrel. Just happened to be my very first time i experienced salvagers dropping in to my missions and i just happened to be near the end of the mission to activate the blast.
Just need to say i laughed so much, i told my corp at the time to keep that in mind.... i still laugh now thinking about how funny it was! And yes i looted his wreck and then returned for the hand in....hahahahahahaha..... One of the funniest moments in my EVE time.
LOL this happened also to me but he was a friendly corp mate. still i couldnt stop laughing and i did pay for his stuff.
on the other hand no one here is talking about it being save for the mission runner or to everything that u do its just for u. hell that would be like calling isk farmers in. it would be nice to fight if i wanted or cared. and to whoever said something about RL wrecks and loot in the ocean being free, that could be true i dont know/care this is eve so tell ccp to make cans free for all again.:P
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Babel
Boom and Bust Economics Ltd. Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:43:00 -
[92]
From Patchnotes: "Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "available for all", which allows everybody to take from them without causing aggression."
Be happy mission-runners - now you have no excuse for being tricked into aggro :)
Be happy salvagers - more loots without aggro issues for you to make money from ... :)
Everyone's happy now right ? .
"Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn" |
Shana Matika
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Posted - 2009.11.30 08:11:00 -
[93]
Well in fact, i do. As i mission in a lazor roxxor ship i don't care about ammo. And when i use my cnr the sentrydrone will do the job (cary just 5 light hob/warrior for frigs). Every Ninja left about 10sec after the first few wrecks went pop.
Why I do this? Well, he could ask BEFORE... When you ask gently in local there are more then enough mission grinder who don't salvage and will let you salvage their sites. Just make yourself a name of beeing a fair salvager and you would get enough bookmarks, in fact more then you could salvage, especially in mission hubs.
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Karmasutra
Woopatang Primary.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 19:26:00 -
[94]
Whats a mission? Never seen those in 0.0 ;)
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Toxif
Minmatar Hmmzor.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:13:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Toxif on 01/12/2009 21:14:49 My god, people. This game is designed to have a dark, uninviting atmosphere. Someday, I'll catch that tool with the signature telling CCP the "right" thing to do is shift the focus from PvP to PvE. No. This is a PvP-centric game with just the right amount of PvE. For Marley's sake, even the endgame is considered to be nullsec.
I am a missionbear, and I have been the "victim" of ninja salvaging before. I didn't throw a hissy and cry and squeal like that crazy German kid whose computer froze or the little bitch whose parents took away his WoW account. I played WoW for five years and was glad to finally drop it for this. I had my hand held in that game every step of the way. EVE is about risk. If you can't handle it, feel free to drop your sub, give your stuff to the needy folks in C&P, and GTFO.
Do whatever the hell you want when a ninja warps into your mission: pop your wrecks, try to tractor and salvage before he can, warp in and out, shoot him and get CONCORDED for your failure. It doesn't matter. Do not, however, expect CCP to change the game's ambience to match that of WoW. The moment that happens, I assure you they will lose more subs from real players than they do now from whiney turds like you. _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Mac user :D |
CO Bradley
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Posted - 2009.12.01 22:28:00 -
[96]
Edited by: CO Bradley on 01/12/2009 22:30:31
Originally by: Samuel Mason One day I decided to ninja salvage, this guy in a drake shot me and got destroyed by concord... I felt so bad I quit ninja salvaging.
I've heard this very same story not long ago....only it was a guy in a drake who was 'upset' because he shot someone while they were salvaging his wrecks and got blown up by concord. ahahahahahaha
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Marlenus
Caldari Ironfleet Towing And Salvage Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2009.12.03 19:39:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Trigos Trilobi You forgot the newest addition:
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1208319&page=1#24
Gracious, how did I ever miss this?
Must be because I don't read Features And Ideas as a rule.
I'm off to update the quotes page, thank you! ------------------ Ironfleet.com |
D melanogaster
Minmatar The Fruit Flys
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Posted - 2009.12.03 20:12:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Chienka
Originally by: Sader Rykane When your getting Ninja salvaged.
When are you people going to realize they're not your wrecks?
*AHEM*
They only exist because I destroyed them. They are a resource I created. They are EXACTLY the same thing as loot, merely requiring a skill to obtain it (which makes it even closer to being like mining, a real profession).
If you can't steal loot, you shouldn't be able to steal salvage. End of story. Either get credible by making the loot itself not property of the destroyer, or do the opposite and make wrecks belong to the guy who created them.
I mean seriously, if the loot on the wreck belongs to me, the salvage does too. Because salvage is loot too.
You shoot a ship and it becomes a wreck. You did that work for the rights to the loot. you have not done ANYTHING yet for rights to the salvage.. That takes additional work.
Someone who salvages the wreck that you created is doing the work for rights to the salvage.. THEY did that work NOT YOU!!
Why don't people understand that?
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Solomar Espersei
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.12.03 20:55:00 -
[99]
God I love these threads.
OK, so now I'm starting to get it. It's very upsetting to some mission runners when I find their mission, jump in uninvited and start doing my thing. I think in fairness, I'll start looting more often giving you fellas the opportunity to fry my Vigil. Also, from now on, when you shoot the wrecks, I'll take that as an expression that you are very upset at me and I'll simply leave. Or maybe someone can convince me to change sides and start running my own missions, creating my own wrecks for change, turn away from this dark path that I've chosen. Hrmm...
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.03 21:10:00 -
[100]
If a ninja salvager shows up, I shoot the wrecks and believe me...........the the only tears I'm shedding when I do are from laughter. I'm making money in the mission while they're making zip AND I get to torment them by shooting the wrecks just as they get to them. I really love it when the ninja guys start getting indignant and whining.
I don't really care what the devs say. They are my wrecks to do with as I see fit. Merely because the mechanics of the game allow and do not flag ninja slavaging as theft does not mean it's any less theft. They're thieves and should become accustomed to the title.
Devs don't want to have ninja salvagers flagged for two reasons. One, it's work to code the flagging system. Two, the devs are interested in encouraging new players by giving them EZ mode of play at the expense of long term players (acquisition of new players versus retention of players).
If you're a believer in whatever doesn't get you flagged or concorded must be morally correct and therefore be linked to ownership or lack thereof, try this. If the wreck doesn't belong to anyone, why can I shoot it and nobody else can without getting concorded?
Regards, Windjammer
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D melanogaster
Minmatar The Fruit Flys
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Posted - 2009.12.03 22:04:00 -
[101]
Originally by: Windjammer
...tears...
If the wreck doesn't belong to anyone, why can I shoot it and nobody else can without getting concorded?
You can shoot at it because only you can destroy your loot, when you kill a ship it is only loot that exists. There is no salvage yet. Someone has to work to extract that salvage. If they do the work then they have every right to the reward.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.03 22:49:00 -
[102]
Originally by: D melanogaster
Originally by: Windjammer
...tears...
If the wreck doesn't belong to anyone, why can I shoot it and nobody else can without getting concorded?
You can shoot at it because only you can destroy your loot, when you kill a ship it is only loot that exists. There is no salvage yet. Someone has to work to extract that salvage. If they do the work then they have every right to the reward.
First, you WISH I was crying instead of laughing. Second, you seem to be saying that your hard work, as a fruit fly (really accurate name for your corp, well done) creates salvage where none existed.
The wrecks contain the salvage which you extract. You don't create anything. Any more than loot is created by someone shooting an NPC ship. Loot in an NPC ship exists as a potential until the NPC ship is shot and the extraction process begins. Completion of the extraction process happens when there is a transfer from the wreck to a cargohold. In just the same way salvage exists as a potential until the NPC ship is shot and the extraction process begins. Completion of the extraction process occurs when the wreck is slavaged and the salvage is in a cargohold.
If it's only loot I'm shooting, why can I shoot empty wrecks? Those without any loot at all.
You keep telling yourself whatever you have to. I'll keep shooting the wrecks and laughing.
Windjammer
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.03 23:06:00 -
[103]
Originally by: D melanogaster Someone has to work to extract that salvage. If they do the work then they have every right to the reward.
Soooo.......it's not work to build standing with a corp so that you can get access to the agent to get a mission? It's not work to build your skills and obtain isk for a ship to do the missions? It's not work to hunt down and shoot rats or shoot NPC's in a mission? To say nothing of the work to replace ships you lose in missions.
Windjammer
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Vadania Amastacia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.12.03 23:41:00 -
[104]
Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.04 00:15:00 -
[105]
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Blah, blah, blah. Corporate espionage and theft are intended game machnaics too. You don't see anyone trying to deny it's stealing. At least those guys have the sack to admit it and even brag about it instead of whining about somebody accusing them of stealing.
Windjammer
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ginlaan
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Posted - 2009.12.04 00:19:00 -
[106]
I just waste there time by only salvaging the large and some mediums on the fly and leave the rest up. In a popular system there is competition on the guys that salvage to get to the next mission runner and get the spoils. By Taking the meat and leaving the scraps they just wasted there time on my mission when maybe they could of got the large salvage from someone else mission.
Is it affective? I have no idea. I do know that wasting time salvaging small wrecks is not going to make you rich by any means hence why i leave them up:-)
I got the idea from a mate who bust's into mission to salvage he basically said its really the only way to grief back since they know there not going get much.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.04 00:20:00 -
[107]
Edited by: Kyra Felann on 04/12/2009 00:21:46 Now that we can abandon wrecks, I'd probably just do that and let them have it because I'm usually too lazy to salvage and loot unless it's all gathered in one nice, neat group.
They turn to a nice blue color.
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Birdman Ravo
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Posted - 2009.12.04 02:38:00 -
[108]
Good fun is to use drones to blow up the wrecks. Slow drones, mind you. Ogres or something. Then it's a race to the next wreck against an equally fast frigate (usually). Mess around with the ninja a little and enjoy yourself. Ask him to shoot some frigates for you. See if you can make him pull aggro without warping out. This is a game after all.
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Ivanheo
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Posted - 2009.12.04 03:30:00 -
[109]
Total don't konw what are you talking about~~~
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Widshin
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Posted - 2009.12.04 07:55:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Tyrathor Banks This mission: Linkage provided me with great satisfaction when the salvager's kestrel went 'pop'.
Pretty much the same happened to me, that guy was cloaked in a cov op and apparently wanted to ransom the mission completion item to me.. when the station went boom he was in his pod going WTF?.
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Zahorite
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Posted - 2009.12.04 11:14:00 -
[111]
No matter how many ninja salvagers say that they enjoy watching me shoot wrecks I'm still going to shoot them. The reason is because I enjoy sitting in a battleship at popping wrecks while the ninja salvager dashes around like a chicken with their head cut off going after wrecks. It's really a matter of perspective, they may be laughing since I'm not gaining anything, but I'm also laughing for the exact same reason.
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skyk
Domination.
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Posted - 2009.12.04 12:11:00 -
[112]
Ninja Salvagers miss the point.
It actually makes missions *more* fun if you get to blow up wrecks just before the salvager gets to them.
Missions are pretty damn boring otherwise.
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Mikal Drey
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.04 12:33:00 -
[113]
hey hey
with the new abandon wreck function id like to know how TEARS/SN feel about why this mechanic was added.
if you consider that the wrecks arent ever owned by anyone and CCP's stance has always been wrecks are public domain (and i agree fyi) why would you need to abandon something thats never yours ? broken mechanics ? shouldnt they been public by default and not by choice ?
also what do you guys feel about abandoned wrecks being scannable and making salvaging more of a legtimate "mini profession" and those who dont give a flying fork about the wrecks can simply abandon them.
lastly with the wrecks becomming abandonable does this actually make white/yellow wreck owned ? and "ninja salvaging" becoming a griefing tactic ? what if white/yellow wrecks actually caused agression when salvaged and not just when looted ?
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Stealnutz
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.12.04 13:25:00 -
[114]
Edited by: Stealnutz on 04/12/2009 13:26:40
Originally by: Mikal Drey hey hey
with the new abandon wreck function id like to know how TEARS/SN feel about why this mechanic was added.
if you consider that the wrecks arent ever owned by anyone and CCP's stance has always been wrecks are public domain (and i agree fyi) why would you need to abandon something thats never yours ? broken mechanics ? shouldnt they been public by default and not by choice ?
also what do you guys feel about abandoned wrecks being scannable and making salvaging more of a legtimate "mini profession" and those who dont give a flying fork about the wrecks can simply abandon them.
lastly with the wrecks becomming abandonable does this actually make white/yellow wreck owned ? and "ninja salvaging" becoming a griefing tactic ? what if white/yellow wrecks actually caused agression when salvaged and not just when looted ?
I guess the abandon option lets mission runners indicate that they are happy to leave wrecks/loot - allowing a co-op salvage operation with randoms, without being in the same corp or fleeted, etc.
I Don't think this indicates a broken mechanic, just a tool to allow cooperation. As far as I know the abandon option only affects loot as salvage is ffo anyways, so its effect on ninja salvaging is going to be pretty insignificant. I guess you are abandoning the loot in the wreck rather than the wreck itself.
As scanning for wrecks, *shrugs* - the best salvage will invariably be in active missions so I don't know why you'd want to waste time scanning down a shed-load of small and medium wrecks. Unless, of course, you have some internal objection to salvaging active missions, in which case just scan out 5-6 missions and return to them periodically - you'll find plenty of abandoned stuff then.
If wrecks caused aggresion then even more mission runners will loose their ships - at least as it stands the mr can just ignore the ninja.
edit: spellin
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Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.12.04 14:25:00 -
[115]
Edited by: Aralieus on 04/12/2009 14:32:44 Edited by: Aralieus on 04/12/2009 14:31:02 I tried it once..its a big f'kn bore If I want some pvp I will just take myself to lowsec or drop a can and wait for someone who wants to pvp. Not saying I'm pro care-bear but it just seems more trouble than its worth. Kudos for popping a emo-carebear but really, how hard did you think it was going to be considering thier pve fitted and your pvp fitted You will get ALOT more funner fights fighting somebody thats capable in the art of pew pew than some mission runner who you cheaply got aggro from...
jus sayin'
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
Riedle
Minmatar Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.12.04 14:52:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Windjammer
Originally by: Vadania Amastacia Per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal "Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu : Originally by: GM Faolchu Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage. Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium : Originally by: GM Ytterbium Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X : Originally by: CCP Prism X Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito : Originally by: CCP Incognito Had a chat with some designers this evening. Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private. They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
(These quotes are kept handy for your convenience at Ironfleet.com.)
Blah, blah, blah. Corporate espionage and theft are intended game machnaics too. You don't see anyone trying to deny it's stealing. At least those guys have the sack to admit it and even brag about it instead of whining about somebody accusing them of stealing.
Windjammer
I ninja salvaged and then I grew up and started ninja looting as well. Believe me - you don't want ninja salvaging to cause aggro.
:)
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.04 19:20:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Riedle Blah, blah, blah. Corporate espionage and theft are intended game machnaics too. You don't see anyone trying to deny it's stealing. At least those guys have the sack to admit it and even brag about it instead of whining about somebody accusing them of stealing.
Windjammer
I ninja salvaged and then I grew up and started ninja looting as well. Believe me - you don't want ninja salvaging to cause aggro.
:) There is absolutely no reason I would not want ninja salvaging to cause aggro. I'd have the same situation as now, plus I'd be able to decide if I want to pop the littler bugger, just shoot the wrecks or both. I'd have everything I have now plus that.
The ninja on the other hand would have a new and exciting lifstyle. Something that would cause me no small amount of pleasure.
I'm happy now. I'd be even happier then.
Windjammer
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.04 19:43:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Babel From Patchnotes: "Player owned wrecks can now be marked as "available for all", which allows everybody to take from them without causing aggression."
Be happy mission-runners - now you have no excuse for being tricked into aggro :)
Be happy salvagers - more loots without aggro issues for you to make money from ... :)
Everyone's happy now right ?
Not really. I don't want to have to click through the context menu everytime to make a wreck FFA. I just want my wrecks to be FFA when they appear
But for everyone actually getting ninja salvaged (the ones who actually care). Right click -> abandon all nearby wrecks. Then one of two things will happen: they will continue to salvage and maybe loot, if that is all they were there for, or they will warp off if they were trying to get you to shoot at them.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
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