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Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
224
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Posted - 2012.06.13 09:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
You know the ones. Gives your ACTIVE hardeners a bonus when NOT ACTIVE to a certain damage type as well as a general boost to said damage type for Passive hardeners.
This works for Armor well enough because their main hardener (Adaptive Nano) is a Passive omni resist and benefits from the Passive part of the skills. However, Shield only has the Adaptive Inv. Field which is Active and as such benefits nada from the skills because why would you not have it active?
Or am I missing something here? Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
189
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Posted - 2012.06.13 09:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
Friggs, or may be the passive omni mod they will some day give us shield users to make up for all the shields on BS and up being not so good. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec. Were is the FW exclusive frigate sized ship? I see the cruiser and battle ship.......... |
Digg Kula
DK Laboratory
0
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Posted - 2012.06.13 10:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shield hardening skills work with passive shield resistance modules and inactive active shield hardening modules. Therefore an active EM hardener will provide 50% (i think) resistance when active but 15% (assuming max skills) when inactive. Basically if you get neuted out you are not totally screwed just yet. |
Ra Jackson
PILSGESCHWADER Monkey Circus
1
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:52:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yes, the shield skills are pretty useless unless you use the passive hardeners in special situations like passively tanking a heavily neuting plex or lvl5 mission. |
ChromeStriker
The Riot Formation Get Off My Lawn
125
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
They can be useful depending upon your fit, also check out faction mods - Nulla Curas |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
113
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Posted - 2012.06.13 12:56:00 -
[6] - Quote
They are useless, except on the modules that benefit from them. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
181
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Posted - 2012.06.13 13:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
omnitank tengu. |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
148
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Posted - 2012.06.13 13:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
They are great for when you get energy neutralized or want to use the passive hardeners... |
Bibosikus
Universal Moose Federation Moose Alliance
122
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Posted - 2012.06.13 13:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Discounting heat, A-Type Res Amps with shield comp skills at V will give you a better resistance than an active T2 hardener, with zero cap usage and 25% less cpu. Not everyone's cup of tea, but very useful for full passive fits and where cpu is tight.
They're easy to train to V when you're mapped to int/mem, and there are basically two per race. There are a lot of other less useful skills to train to V in ~7 days per. The box said "Requires Windows-á2000 or better", so I installed Linux. |
mxzf
Shovel Bros
1772
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Posted - 2012.06.13 13:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
As other people have said, they're not useless, just less useful than armor ones. |
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Aeril Malkyre
Knights of the Ouroboros
80
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Posted - 2012.06.13 14:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
All Invuln Fields still have a passive resist when inactive. That benefits from such skills as well. |
Flakey Foont
143
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
For where you are aiming Tor, leave them until last. |
Kalli Brixzat
55
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
There are 2 benefits for these skills - though they should not be trained until other tank skills are maxed or near-maxed.
1. When neuted dry, the extra few percent of resist can save you. 2. There are some fairly sexy T3 fits using faction resist amps. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
203
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Daniel Plain wrote:omnitank tengu.
Many other Caldari ships can easily be passive omnitanked because:
Very often have +5% shield resists per level
Have enough mid slots
Can use DCU II
Thing is that majority of players not training those passive skills can't see the real benefits. Since you speak about Tengu, 2 passive resists EM+Explo puts your Tengu over 75% resist on the weakest one and over 80% the second weakest one and over 84% for the 2 highest ones, but how many are unable to figure it out and are still using faction/dead space invulns and just look like awesome space loot pi+¦atas?
So @OP
Train them at least at 4 is NEVER a waste of time and will open to you new fitting options/better survivability. brb |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
227
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Flakey Foont wrote:For where you are aiming Tor, leave them until last.
Yeah, I don't plan on prioritizing them. I just thought they'd be as good as their Armour counterparts. Until I trained them. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
204
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Posted - 2012.06.13 16:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:Flakey Foont wrote:For where you are aiming Tor, leave them until last. Yeah, I don't plan on prioritizing them. I just thought they'd be as good as their Armour counterparts. Until I trained them.
They're almost as good than armor counterparts+you benefit from shields recharge that profit from that resist increase. Plus those A-B-C type are by far less expensive than armor resist platings.
At the end of the day you'll use an invuln, however when you get neut you can laugh at your buddy using only hardeners and not training passive resists because he will have no tank once he's neut, you keep at least 50% of your tank without cap because you've trained passive skills that apply to your passive resists and your invuln when not active.
Of course you will not need them every time but spend 2 weeks of training for this is absolutely not a waste of time brb |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
227
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:03:00 -
[17] - Quote
Yeah well I got lots and lots of core shield skills to train, because I armor tanked my previous ship(s).
So. Yeah. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Bossy Lady
Aliastra Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tor Gungnir wrote:You know the ones. Gives your ACTIVE hardeners a bonus when NOT ACTIVE to a certain damage type as well as a general boost to said damage type for Passive hardeners.
This works for Armor well enough because their main hardener (Adaptive Nano) is a Passive omni resist and benefits from the Passive part of the skills. However, Shield only has the Adaptive Inv. Field which is Active and as such benefits nada from the skills because why would you not have it active?
Or am I missing something here?
Pretty much.
Posting on this character because apparently some people get upset when they're asked difficult questions. M. |
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
70
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:12:00 -
[19] - Quote
I have been in some neuting plex's, where I kill the neuts right at my last 1% of shield. Hardners have been off for awhile.. As I bleed into armor, I get enough cap back to pump my first shield boost. This happens to me quite a lot actually, which is a possibly a player confidence issue, (I do it on purpose) but also, it may be CCP design. That is, perfect skills can work in certain situations.
That said, I think the skills have limited application. My well skilled second account wil probably never train them to V. If you were going to be a specced Caldari specific pilot, then yes. Tengu PvE, yes.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
520
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:00:00 -
[20] - Quote
RavenPaine wrote:I have been in some neuting plex's, where I kill the neuts right at my last 1% of shield. Hardners have been off for awhile.. As I bleed into armor, I get enough cap back to pump my first shield boost. This happens to me quite a lot actually, which is a possibly a player confidence issue, (I do it on purpose) but also, it may be CCP design. That is, perfect skills can work in certain situations.
That said, I think the skills have limited application. My well skilled second account wil probably never train them to V. If you were going to be a specced Caldari specific pilot, then yes. Tengu PvE, yes.
Couldn't agree more. Shield comps have made a world of difference in how I run very specific plexes. And it isn't just the difference between warping out once for cap but often multiple times. |
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Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
92
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
I wouldn't really bother with them unless you're thinking of running a neut resistant passive tank. Just get them high enough so you can use the t2 variants. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
520
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:I wouldn't really bother with them unless you're thinking of running a neut resistant passive tank. Just get them high enough so you can use the t2 variants.
Which would be to... 0. You don't have to even plug in comp skills to use resistance amplifiers. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
92
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:05:00 -
[23] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:I wouldn't really bother with them unless you're thinking of running a neut resistant passive tank. Just get them high enough so you can use the t2 variants. Which would be to... 0. You don't have to even plug in comp skills to use resistance amplifiers.
WEll I meant t2 hardeners for other /general uses, which i think you have to have specific compensation to 1. Its been a long time since i trained all that stuff. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
520
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:Zhilia Mann wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:I wouldn't really bother with them unless you're thinking of running a neut resistant passive tank. Just get them high enough so you can use the t2 variants. Which would be to... 0. You don't have to even plug in comp skills to use resistance amplifiers. WEll I meant t2 hardeners for other /general uses, which i think you have to have specific compensation to 1. Its been a long time since i trained all that stuff.
Tactical Shield Manipulation 4 for all T2 hardeners (invuln included). Shield Upgrades 4 for T2 resistance amps. No other skills needed. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
92
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Posted - 2012.06.13 21:12:00 -
[25] - Quote
I wonder why I bought them and trained them to 1. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates RAZOR Alliance
114
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Posted - 2012.06.14 00:38:00 -
[26] - Quote
I haven't bothered to take them to V yet, but I think it is silly not to train them to IV. I use shield resistance amplifiers on a variety of fits, but especially on haulers and other ships that are vulnerable just after undock when I might not have time to activate an active hardener. |
Kaikka Carel
White syndicate Wormholes Holders
55
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Posted - 2012.06.14 01:43:00 -
[27] - Quote
Kijo Rikki wrote:I wonder why I bought them and trained them to 1.
They saved your ship... Once... Somewhere... Maybe in an alternative reality...
Suprisingly I trained them too along with the armor line up by inertia. |
Kijo Rikki
Killboard Padding Services
93
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Posted - 2012.06.14 05:47:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kaikka Carel wrote:Kijo Rikki wrote:I wonder why I bought them and trained them to 1. They saved your ship... Once... Somewhere... Maybe in an alternative reality... Suprisingly I trained them too along with the armor line up by inertia.
Heh.
I remember those skills provide substantially less, or rather, no resistance amplifier bonus at all in the past. I know I'm not bad at reading comprehension so I'm wondering if in the past they had to be useful for some reason. |
Zarnak Wulf
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
372
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Posted - 2012.06.14 06:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
The new Ancillary shield boosters run independent of your ship's cap. They provide a fantastic boost for a limited amount of time. Some fits utilize two boosters. In a heavy nuet environment it is therefore conceivable that your tank will run even though you have no cap. In that case these skills would be useful. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
758
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Posted - 2012.06.14 19:03:00 -
[30] - Quote
My corp was doing C5 and C6 sites in these, with a max skill and mindlinked Tengu Siege Warfare booster. It is why I trained all the skills to 5 (note: it only requires 2 of the 4 skills). My alt's Rattlesnake uses 3 of the 4 skills, but he also has them all trained to 5.
[Tengu, Passive Spider] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Caldari Navy Power Diagnostic System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Large Shield Extender II Pithum A-Type Explosion Dampening Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Large Shield Transporter II
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit II Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II Medium Core Defence Field Extender II
Tengu Defensive - Adaptive Shielding Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor
[Rattlesnake, Passive] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Large Shield Extender II Pithum A-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Pithum A-Type Thermic Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type EM Ward Amplifier Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Gist X-Type 100MN Afterburner
Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Drone Link Augmentor II Large Remote Armor Repair System II Large Shield Transporter II Imperial Navy Large Energy Transfer Array
Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Core Defense Field Purger II Large Core Defense Field Purger II
Bouncer II x5 Garde II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x5
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