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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.04 16:45:00 -
[1]
Originally by: Diomidis
Originally by: SofaKing Weetaded I want a fast and more-durable-than-an-inty tackler for my cruiser gangs.
Is it worthwhile getting one? Should I fit it like a Vagabond or differently?
The faction Stabber is indeed one of the best faction cruisers (before the new patch at least), but what makes you think that it's move survivable than an inty? It's more EHP ? I don't think so...faction ships act like magnets and you will be pursued and primaried...a lot... Also a cruiser is way easier to track and shoot than a frig - especially an inty - so with less than perfect skills and the experience to back you up, it's not that a good choice.
Try practicing with standard Stabbers, lose a few to get a hint and grow into that class...than make the switch to Fleet or Vaga when ready (at least with T2 guns, cruiser V etc)...
This really. When gangs see a 100m ship that can be destroyed quite easily they will target you. It's almost like seeing a vaga but without T2 resists. If your looking for something to tackle with survivability then nothing beats an inty.
In my opinion fleet stabber isn't a great choice for a gang ship. Fly a stabber until you can use a vagabond.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.04 16:55:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Belle Tristesse Stabber Fleet Issue is an excellent ship. Where are you flying it? If you're in low sec I would recommend that you ignore people's suggestions to fit it like a vaga. It's basically a rupture on steroids. Plate and trimark it and stick on dual webs. Still goes faster than any standard cruiser and will murder any frigs due to the tracking bonus. On gates it can happily have a go at vagas too.
First of all a stabber with bonuses is faster than a stabber fleet issue so that's not really a true statement
A rupture or thorax will also murder frigs. It's not a difficult thing to do.
A fleet stabber won't beat a vaga in a fight unless under some strange circumstances.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.05 00:43:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Draeklore on 05/11/2009 00:43:40
Originally by: Aphoticus
I personally, find no other use for the ship.
For people who like spending the amount of money as 20 ruptures (and isn't much more efficient than one) and getting primaried in gangs.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.05 01:31:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote:
This really. When gangs see a 100m ship that can be destroyed quite easily they will target you. It's almost like seeing a vaga but without T2 resists. If your looking for something to tackle with survivability then nothing beats an inty.
Which is different from a Vaga how? Fleet Stabber has MORE EHP than a Vagabond. Vagabond has t2 resists, but LESS armor/shield HP than even a t1 stabber.
A 1600 plated fleet stabber and a shield extended vaga have similar EHP. The difference is the vaga is much faster and has a huge falloff bonus. This means the vagabond will deal damage at a much longer range than the fleet stabber and can dictate its range much better.
The fleet stabber fights like a rupture which led to my statement that you could buy a ton of ruptures for the price of a fleet stabber and be nearly as effective.
The stabber might have slightly more EHP but does not have more survivability than a vaga.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.05 03:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Quote: A 1600 plated fleet stabber and a shield extended vaga have similar EHP. The difference is the vaga is much faster and has a huge falloff bonus. This means the vagabond will deal damage at a much longer range than the fleet stabber and can dictate its range much better.
The fleet stabber fights like a rupture which led to my statement that you could buy a ton of ruptures for the price of a fleet stabber and be nearly as effective.
The stabber might have slightly more EHP but does not have more survivability than a vaga.
If it was meant to be flown like a rupture then it would be the republic fleet rupture. But it's not.
So then how do you fly it? Apparently a 1600 plate and AC's are not the correct way I guess I was mistaken.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.05 13:45:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Ecky X Edited by: Ecky X on 05/11/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Nikea Tiber Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthronÖ
Fit like a Vaga, it has similar EHP and similar damage, with similar velocity and better agility. It lacks a medium neut, and falloff bonus, but has an additional rig slot for another ambit, and a 50% tracking bonus.
It can be flown like a Vaga quite nicely.
Except that it lacks the speed bonus and the falloff bonus of the Vaga which are two of the critical bonuses in how the Vaga operates. Flying the vaga properly involves dictating range and living in the falloff range. Also, as you already mentioned, it lacks the medium neut which is a very important mod. Also 50% tracking bonus is wasted once you setart piloting like a vaga.
So now you have a ship that is not as fast as a vaga, has to be closer to its target than a vaga, and lacks the medium neut. Yet you are still trying to fly it like a vaga and paying a hefty price for it at the same time.
The fleet stabber should be fitted like a rupture else you are just being inefficient as you could just fly a vaga itself and do it properly.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.05 16:07:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Marko Riva Edited by: Marko Riva on 05/11/2009 14:12:30
Originally by: Draeklore
Originally by: Ecky X Edited by: Ecky X on 05/11/2009 07:04:11
Originally by: Nikea Tiber Except it is basically a faster rupture. It isn't a vaga because it lacks 2 critical elements; a falloff bonus and HAC resists. If you fit it like a vaga your EHP is pathetic and it doesn't really deal a whole lot of damage outside of web range, so you plate it and fly it like a faster rupture. It may look like a stabber, but it is just a pimped out dumpsterthronÖ
Fit like a Vaga, it has similar EHP and similar damage, with similar velocity and better agility. It lacks a medium neut, and falloff bonus, but has an additional rig slot for another ambit, and a 50% tracking bonus.
It can be flown like a Vaga quite nicely.
Except that it lacks the speed bonus and the falloff bonus of the Vaga which are two of the critical bonuses in how the Vaga operates. Flying the vaga properly involves dictating range and living in the falloff range. Also, as you already mentioned, it lacks the medium neut which is a very important mod. Also 50% tracking bonus is wasted once you setart piloting like a vaga.
So now you have a ship that is not as fast as a vaga, has to be closer to its target than a vaga, and lacks the medium neut. Yet you are still trying to fly it like a vaga and paying a hefty price for it at the same time.
The fleet stabber should be fitted like a rupture else you are just being inefficient as you could just fly a vaga itself and do it properly.
Fleet stabber 1: speed 2690 align (MWD) 5 dps @20km 297 EHP 25k
Fleet stabber 2: speed 2830 align (MWD) 4.5 dps @20km 276 EHP 25k
Vaga: speed 2940 align (MWD) 5.8 dps @20km 267 EHP 25k
What?
Posting a bunch of numbers does not prove anything.
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Draeklore
Unknown-Entity Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.11.05 16:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Kazang there is really no reason to use the fleet stabber over the vaga.
No ****, but that wasn't the point. The POINT was to see if the fleet stabber is a decent replacement for someone unable to use a vaga and as someone stated that the stabber is useless compared to a Vaga I felt the need to correct that somewhat. Also my math isn't wrong, fleet stabber in my fit uses dual 180's and while you ofcourse lack the neut those dual180's with 25% tracking bonus do messy things with tacklers trying to get close.
Oh btw; Fleet stabber @28km: 218 dps Vaga @28km: 200dps
Well I wasn't arguing that
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