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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
Tesal
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Posted - 2009.11.11 15:36:00 -
[3241]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
Really?
OK, that throws out the idea that the little guy won't be able to afford Sov. People can stop "defending" them now.
never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.11.11 15:38:00 -
[3242]
Originally by: PaulTheConvoluted
Originally by: ShadowMaiden Ok, CCP slashes the proposed fees by 75%, but you lose Local, sound fair Alliance carebears?
Also, cry more.
Why would anyone but pirates roaming in enemy territory want to remove local? With these upgrades being PvE oriented as they are removing local would only result in even more ppl running to high-sec for ISK, as you've just made PvE a hell of a lot more dangerous.
It's true 0.0 is (was?) all about PvP, but if you practically require people to PvE in order to keer their home, at least make it remotely possible to do so (with a net profit, preferably a decent one at that).
At the very least, removing local will even further chase off carebears, while inviting them to 0.0 seemed like the main goal of the patch.
Listen carefully Paul, you will hear the tears of the wannabe pirates who can't get what they see as their due; the little ratter or miner. In fact their only due is repeated podding but that's beside the point, but beware or else you will drown in their 1337 pvp against the super pvp Hulk.
Cry moar ShadowFailure because local won't be removed. If you want no local go live in a WH. WH's are boring . Who's crying again little child?
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Ukucia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:04:00 -
[3243]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
Really?
OK, that throws out the idea that the little guy won't be able to afford Sov. People can stop "defending" them now.
Unfortunately, you don't seem to understand that big alliances don't need Sov to control space.
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Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:25:00 -
[3244]
Originally by: Tesal
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
Really?
OK, that throws out the idea that the little guy won't be able to afford Sov. People can stop "defending" them now.
Good to know CCP don't change their minds and can't alter things before release on TQ. Anyone remember the Rorq jump range prior to release on TQ? For those who don't it was 100000000 LY or something like that.
However, if these are the new numbers and CCP stick to them then sov might become cost effective and people will claim it. Otherwise only a few systems will be claimed and the rest of space will remain defended by death stars.
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Sloth Arnini
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:27:00 -
[3245]
So, someone in alliance kindly linked a devblog outlining how the new sov system worked. Most of the principles of that system actually seem quite sound (to me at least). Then I noticed that if I'm reading the conquest flowchart correctly (here) we have to destroy the infrastructure hub to take the system.
So, not only do defenders have to splash out to drop the hub and all its lolupgrades in the first place, the attackers need to build it all up again themselves once they take the system. So, why should anyone attack a system just so they can spend a large sum of isk that goes to waste if someone else occupies the system (even if only for a day)? At the very least make the hub capturable rather than destructible.
If I invade someone's space, I don't just want to explode their spaceship pixels, I want to take their stuff and make it my own. If I just want to make spaceship pixels explode, I'll join a roaming gang. I want something to show for my trouble when actaully assaulting territory. As it stands, the only reward the Dominion sov system offers, over the existing one, is the sight of a big explosion when you blow away the hub, and a second explosion when you take out the TCU.
So CCP, why should we bother attacking each other's space? Tears are all well and good, but insufficient on their own.
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Clone 10101
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:31:00 -
[3246]
Originally by: ShadowMaiden lose Local
yes please.
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SELENE VAMP
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Posted - 2009.11.11 16:44:00 -
[3247]
Hi.
IĘd like to present you some ideas about the fact that sov bonuses should be linked to the sov holder and the corporations and alliances the sov holders decides , instead of the solar system, to prevent enemies and neutrals to make the most of the sov upgrades.
For example, instead of a bonus to the number of pops and the average bounty, the bonus brought by the military bonus HUB could be an extra percentage of bounty given to all the members of the sov holding alliance and the alliances specifically allowed to farm here and benefit the bonus.
Moreover, this upgrade could for example give a bonus to the scan res/tracking/opti/resist jam (or whatever you may imagine) to the sov holding alliance members and their authorized allies. This would help them defending their territory and help them make money more effectively by increasing slightly the speed people farm plexes and belts.
You can even boost mining and ice harvesting rate this way, the important idea is that this bonus should be applied to the sov holder and his allies instead of being automatically given to anyone entering the system.
Another idea I had in order to help people protecting their system is the possibility to anchor fighter hangars @ POSes, POS gunners could deploy directly to targets at range or and assign to friends. This would help farming, especially for small alliances who canĘt field often carriers assisting farmers, or even pvpers, helping fighting against hostiles and needs active pilots, contrary to anchored defense at gates and outposts. Moreover it would help a lot these small alliances who canĘt field many pilots on some bad timezone for them.
Please discuss these ideas.
many thanks.
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Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:27:00 -
[3248]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
If these numbers are the new prices for begining alliance i support them whole heartedly. sounds decent imho and afordable to even to noobest of groups. NOW what ithink should happen is if they dont want big alliances to spam systems they should scale the cost of upkeep, as in if you have so many systems under your control your price per system increases 25%. then if you reach antoehr teir it goes to 50%.
That is how i understood the mechanics at fan fest as to how this would work and how i think it should still be. If we could have CCP confirm this with releasing the numbers and the scale to what its going to cost to have a super empire then all my fears of this expansion will be extinguished. they can fiddle around with quality of upgrades when it drops and adjust as needed to demand and market strength.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:31:00 -
[3249]
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
If these numbers are the new prices for begining alliance i support them whole heartedly. sounds decent imho and afordable to even to noobest of groups. NOW what ithink should happen is if they dont want big alliances to spam systems they should scale the cost of upkeep, as in if you have so many systems under your control your price per system increases 25%. then if you reach antoehr teir it goes to 50%.
That is how i understood the mechanics at fan fest as to how this would work and how i think it should still be. If we could have CCP confirm this with releasing the numbers and the scale to what its going to cost to have a super empire then all my fears of this expansion will be extinguished. they can fiddle around with quality of upgrades when it drops and adjust as needed to demand and market strength.
Yeah, tbh, i dont see what people are crying about..
1m a day is cheaper than towers, and if you keep your carebearing to maybe 5-10 systems, its actually getting cheaper to hold sov..
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Lolion Reglo
Demio's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:34:00 -
[3250]
I know. For being apart of an alliance that holds about 6 or 7 systems in null sec all im concerned about is how much the price will scale and how much of a tax or lien the allaince will place on its corps to help support its claim to space. The fact the prices have dropped to this level means we can not only hold sov but also run a few POSes as well for about the same price we are currently running at.
So thank you CCP for responding to our concerns and adjusting the prices. I know you don't hear that often but hey, im just glad things seem to be looking up again.
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Ukucia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:42:00 -
[3251]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Lolion Reglo
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
If these numbers are the new prices for begining alliance i support them whole heartedly. sounds decent imho and afordable to even to noobest of groups. NOW what ithink should happen is if they dont want big alliances to spam systems they should scale the cost of upkeep, as in if you have so many systems under your control your price per system increases 25%. then if you reach antoehr teir it goes to 50%.
That is how i understood the mechanics at fan fest as to how this would work and how i think it should still be. If we could have CCP confirm this with releasing the numbers and the scale to what its going to cost to have a super empire then all my fears of this expansion will be extinguished. they can fiddle around with quality of upgrades when it drops and adjust as needed to demand and market strength.
Yeah, tbh, i dont see what people are crying about..
1m a day is cheaper than towers, and if you keep your carebearing to maybe 5-10 systems, its actually getting cheaper to hold sov..
We're crying about the upgrades and their total worthlessness. Not the costs. Not even at the initial prices.
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Zen Sung
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:53:00 -
[3252]
I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 17:57:00 -
[3253]
Originally by: Zen Sung I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion.
That wont happen. That would ruin small roaming gangs..
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Zen Sung
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:15:00 -
[3254]
Setting aside the fact it should be hard for small roaming gangs to challenge people in their sovereign space, there could always be workarounds (making player turrets vulnerable to ecm is just one thing that comes instantly to mind).
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:18:00 -
[3255]
Hey i have an idea, please quote if you find it good:
Why not scale the upkeep costs by the amount of solar systems that you own, lets say in steps of 5 solar systems.
Lets say the upkeep costs for each of the first 5 solar systems that you own, are (im taking the numbers from the current sisi build)
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
The 6th through 10th solar systems that you own, will have increased upkeep costs, lets say by 30%.
The 11th through 15th solar systems that you own, will have even more increased upkeep costs, lets say by 60%.
And so on.
BUT STILL: The Upgrade Levels will grant you a discount on the upkeep costs for each individual solar system.
That way, both smaller and big alliances can own their part of the space, and still CCP could prevent a single alliance from gaining domination over several regions. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. StevieSG |
Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:30:00 -
[3256]
Honestly I would have been fine with the old prices. it's the supposed "upgrades" that need to be reworked.
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:34:00 -
[3257]
Edited by: Qlanth on 11/11/2009 18:33:51
Originally by: Mokita maybe if we increase the spawn rates of things that are both unpopular and unprofitable, people will use them to make more isk
This quote basically applies to every single infrastructure hub upgrade except the complex spawning one.
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Roger Douglas
Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:34:00 -
[3258]
Originally by: Qlanth Honestly I would have been fine with the old prices. it's the supposed "upgrades" that need to be reworked.
I can't believe I agree with goons, but he's right. What is the universe coming to?
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Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:37:00 -
[3259]
Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?
I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:
Static complexes Static R64 moons
Both of which have been nerfed.
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Niamota Olin
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:58:00 -
[3260]
I still think the best thing they could do is make a cyno jammer a pos deployable module that doesnt require sov to place. Turn it on its head from a defensive use to a genuine offensive one by forcing an alliance to pop said pos to allow there caps to get out of there space.
Its not like all the 0.0 alliances arent gonna have loads of pos's to chuck away now anyway.
So they fixed the cost thing... it wont help.
Read between the lines of all the big alliance posts they want more targets in 0.0, they word it as new pilots but some slipped, they want more people who are unprepared and weak so they can enjoy being big and nasty still...
Plenty have said it already. Big alliance dont need sov to hold space.
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:59:00 -
[3261]
Originally by: Qlanth Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?
I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:
Static complexes Static R64 moons
Both of which have been nerfed.
i agree. There needs to be something worth fighting for Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels with a maximum file size of 24000 bytes. StevieSG |
Professor Dumbledore
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 18:59:00 -
[3262]
Originally by: Qlanth Another thing I have been purposely avoiding but is a problem I have feared since the announcement of R64 nerf is: What exactly is my motivation for taking new space?
I can imagine some of my alliance's enemies will be trying to take our space for the sake of pure revenge but what is supposed to fuel my fire after the first 6 months? 0.0 needs something static to fight over as for years the only thing alliances EVER fought over were:
Static complexes Static R64 moons
Both of which have been nerfed.
Not to metion the whole point of this new system is to "make your systems more proftable" what's the point of fighting over territory when you can make it all the same. CCP is ****ing ******ed but we all already knew that.
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iP0D
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:01:00 -
[3263]
Originally by: Clone 10101
Originally by: ShadowMaiden lose Local
yes please.
Sure, less targets in space :P
Goals for Dominion:
- bleed old x64 isk - yes, but based on very long term view
- less grind - no, still structures / timers / blob incentives
- faster pace of conflicts - yes, fast timers, less volume
- repopulate space - lol, fail
If we're going to have 0.0 repopulated again, it is going to have to be worth it for people to move there, only a minority of people are not sheep, and if we want to have easy fun ganks again and preying on easy players, then we first really need to actually get them out here again
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Pointfive
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:04:00 -
[3264]
There needs to be reasons to live in the space and reasons to want to take over space. With this current setup the majority of players are still going to make their money in empire and as making money is a pretty large part of the game, they will be spending most of their time in empire. I have to believe someone on the dev team understands this.I think tying the systems to true sec might help. At least then some space is better than other space. A max upgraded system of the lowest true sec should be on par with level 4 income. The highest sec status max upgraded should be 250% of level 4s. I dont think 0.0 dwellers want to pve all day and get rich. They want to pve less and have some territory conflict.
There should also be some upgrades that draw out industry people. I think system upgrades that focues on giving 0.0 industry would be nice. Make it so only the best systems can have these upgrades turning the best true se systems into both pve. and market hubs.
An upgrade that lowers build time. An upgrade that makes tech invention easier. An upgrade that allows you to build ships for less minerals, but those ships can never go to empire. Just make up some bs about them using illegal materials and being dangerous. Have minerals that can only be used in nullsec and can be used to build ships more efficiently, again dangerous unregulated minerals that oncord will blwo you up for trying to take to high sec.
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Barwinius
Ars ex Discordia
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:20:00 -
[3265]
If Cyno Jammers are so expensive they should get a big buff. Give Cyno Jammers a HP boost! |
Zastrow
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 19:49:00 -
[3266]
Originally by: iP0D
Originally by: Clone 10101
Originally by: ShadowMaiden lose Local
yes please.
Sure, less targets in space :P
Goals for Dominion:
- bleed old x64 isk - yes, but based on very long term view
- less grind - no, still structures / timers / blob incentives
- faster pace of conflicts - yes, fast timers, less volume
- repopulate space - lol, fail
If we're going to have 0.0 repopulated again, it is going to have to be worth it for people to move there, only a minority of people are not sheep, and if we want to have easy fun ganks again and preying on easy players, then we first really need to actually get them out here again
there's no way to try to **** an alliance of "old money" without ****ing up the system for new alliances. Also why should you punish an alliance for being successful in the past by bleeding out their hard earned spacebux.
This isn't and shouldn't be a goal of Dominion. the rest- ok whatever Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Nick Bison
Gallente Bison Industrial Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:01:00 -
[3267]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Zen Sung I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion.
That wont happen. That would ruin small roaming gangs..
Question: would that ruin small roaming gangs or just the gate-camping parties? A roam keeps moving and doesn't necissarily hang out at gates long enough to get locked-up by those slow-@ss sentries.
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:05:00 -
[3268]
Originally by: Nick Bison
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Originally by: Zen Sung I was sure there had been mention of Sentry gun upgrades at some stage so you could have some guarding your space. Did I make this up in my head or was this mentioned at some point? That was the kind of upgrade I was looking forward to with dominion.
That wont happen. That would ruin small roaming gangs..
Question: would that ruin small roaming gangs or just the gate-camping parties? A roam keeps moving and doesn't necissarily hang out at gates long enough to get locked-up by those slow-@ss sentries.
Not taking killing ratters in belts into account, 90% of fights happens at gates, and yes, sometimes you do hold on a gate while a scout is tracking down a ratter, or your waiting for someone to jump through the gate..
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CCP Chronotis
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:12:00 -
[3269]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik For those who missed it, current SiSi prices (which can change still, of course):
TCU: 1m ISK / day Hub: 5m ISK / day Jump bridge: 10m ISK / day Cyno gen: 2m ISK / day Cyno jammer: 20m ISK / day CSAA: 1m ISK / day
This is correct for the current version on sisi. The only upcoming change as of today was shifting all the upkeep onto the TCU from the hub (TCU will be 6mill per day, hub will have no upkeep cost).
There may well be more changes to come in the days ahead and we are writing another blog which publicises the more updated figures and hoovers up lots of other important issues like specifics on transition between old and new to ensure everyone is clear on what will happen for example and any significant changes to the conquest mechanics which we need to detail if necessary.
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Prognosys
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.11 20:13:00 -
[3270]
Originally by: gambrinous
Originally by: KeratinBoy What if, along with these changes, CCP decided to charge players through the nose for, well, the same experience?
The updated patch notes now state that they are trying to reduce empire alt sprawl, you know, condense empire carebears into fewer, more lucrative alts. As a result you will have to pay 7 mill a day for any character that logs on in empire. To make things more lucrative, there are now 10 more lvl 3 agents in every system.
just giving this another quote
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