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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
something somethingdark
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Posted - 2009.11.28 03:18:00 -
[3541]
 Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Future Mutant
I disagree with this entirely. Even before dominion someone in null can make more then they could make in the following activities. Ratting, mining, running anomalies.
More income ratting in null compared to ratting in highsec.
More income mining in null compared to mining in hisec.
More income running anomalies in null compared to running them in hisec.
Im many cases now these activities meet or exceed lvl 4 mission running isk per hour. After dominion they will pay even more.
No. After dominion, they will pay the same or less. Ratting doesn't change, still requires tons of prep work and will still be limited to a very small number of players per system. Anomalies won't pay more because they're designed not to ù the only ones that might pay more than L4s are the old ones, which suffer the same fate as ratting (aren't affected by dominion, only sustains a very tiny number, most are worthless as it is). Mining isn't worth it as it is, and adding tons of grav-sites doesn't improve things since they're a ***** to empty out and cycle.
So no, it won't be better and it certainly won't pay more. Not because I say so, but because CCP says so.
See thats an outright lie. Systems can be upgraded to provide more rats, more anomalies, more hidden astroids.
On an isk per hour basis- having more means more income.
More rats to shoot= more income.
More anomalies to run= more income
More hidden roids to mine= more income
To say dominion would mean equal or even less income compared to isk per hour now is beyond misleading- it is a blatant lie.
have you actualy tried to "farm" a system ?
say 10 belts bad true sec status (more than half of eve) (-0.20)
first you will even run into troubles making the required military index to advance
and if by magic you manage that at first you will be swamped by utter **** cosmic anomalys (run some and you will know)
and no cosmic anomalys arnt equal to missions in rewards (that is bounty salvage loot and LP)
and you are going to have to run the bad ones (read 90% of them) so you might be luckyer at the respawn and in adition you have to keep your military index up
wich is impossible with simple beltratting
as for the other signatures
if you care to check the market it already took a preemtive dive on things like decryptors and the likes wich now will be more abundant thus reducing your rewards
as for upgraded mining stuff
that looks to be usefull but im not to well versed in the intricacies of that market to postulate a likely outcome of that change
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Kanatta Jing
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:16:00 -
[3542]
Originally by: something somethingdark
as for upgraded mining stuff
that looks to be usefull but im not to well versed in the intricacies of that market to postulate a likely outcome of that change
If it is truly the miners dream, and everyone gets a pet mining corp or two, then 0.0 markets are going to get right weird in a few months.
Effects will be less severe in Empire as they will have to trickle in.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 11:19:00 -
[3543]
Originally by: Future Mutant
See thats an outright lie. Systems can be upgraded to provide more rats, more anomalies, more hidden astroids.
Oh dear. You haven't read up on what the upgrade system does and what it will provide, have you?
Quote:
More rats to shoot= more income.
…except that there isn't a "more rats" upgrade. The closest thing is the "more anomalies" one where the rats are worth far less.
Quote:
More anomalies to run= more income
…except that "more income" = "on par with L4s" for the top tier anomalies that the upgrade system will spawn.
Quote:
More hidden roids to mine= more income
…except that the market is already saturated and mining is already not worth it. Adding more of something that there's already too much of makes it worth even less. In addition, the gravsite despawn mechanics means you'll either quickly mine out everything valuable and then have to wait for three days, or you'll have to waste time mining worthless ore.
You'd be half-right if you changed the above statements to "income for more people", which is a different thing, but the problem is that CCP have already stated that they fall well short of the goal, at most providing income for an additional 10-20ppl per system rather than the 100 or so they were initially touting. The problem is that this additional sustainability comes at a cost — a cost that certainly can be paid for by the added income of the upgrades, but that's just it: you pay for upgrades that give you on par income with highsec.
"On par" (at best) income, minus the costs of having the upgrades that give that income = less income than highsec L4s. Oops! 
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Feyleaf
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Posted - 2009.11.28 13:00:00 -
[3544]
This is the death of the sandbox, paying taxes to concord(whatever)for 0.0!? lame. Instead of fighting for territory we now all become concord pets and have to grind our ass off or buy isk. This also makes nrds impossible which is very bad for the game. I honestly dont know what the dev's are thinking, maybe paying the full price for -1.0 and 1/10 for -0.1? It would be just as lame but less game-breaking, Maybe giving the owner of a system the power to tax all rat kills in the system by say up to 5%, low price for the first sov systems with prices scaling upwards? If nrds dies then I wont have anything worth fighting for, can always fight other ppls wars and look at the pretty explosions, did that once but it got old quickly, I guess il keep a pirate/gank char and cancel the others. But we will see how it goes.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:39:00 -
[3545]
Edited by: Future Mutant on 28/11/2009 18:41:51
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Future Mutant
See thats an outright lie. Systems can be upgraded to provide more rats, more anomalies, more hidden astroids.
Oh dear. You haven't read up on what the upgrade system does and what it will provide, have you?
Yes i have- but i dont have unrealistic expectations either. Dominion upgrades WILL provide more income- for more ppl, if the systems are upgraded.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Future Mutant
More rats to shoot= more income.
àexcept that there isn't a "more rats" upgrade. The closest thing is the "more anomalies" one where the rats are worth far less.
Aside from the more anomolies upgrade i keep reading about something theyve been calling a "pirate magnet". The description sounds a lot like more rats to me.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Future Mutant
More anomalies to run= more income
àexcept that "more income" = "on par with L4s" for the top tier anomalies that the upgrade system will spawn.
Yes except for the possibility of multi billion isk mods dropping the income will be similar to lvl 4's. Sounds fair to me.
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Future Mutant
More hidden roids to mine= more income
àexcept that the market is already saturated and mining is already not worth it. Adding more of something that there's already too much of makes it worth even less. In addition, the gravsite despawn mechanics means you'll either quickly mine out everything valuable and then have to wait for three days, or you'll have to waste time mining worthless ore.
A miner in null can easily make 50 mill an hour NOW- if he has transport support. Hidden belts sound great- they even come with special rats to shoot. Sounds like an improved situation to me.
Originally by: Tippia
You'd be half-right if you changed the above statements to "income for more people", which is a different thing, but the problem is that CCP have already stated that they fall well short of the goal, at most providing income for an additional 10-20ppl per system rather than the 100 or so they were initially touting. The problem is that this additional sustainability comes at a cost ù a cost that certainly can be paid for by the added income of the upgrades, but that's just it: you pay for upgrades that give you on par income with highsec.
Your corp should pay for the upgrades- what do you think the moon goo income is for?
Originally by: Tippia
"On par" (at best) income, minus the costs of having the upgrades that give that income = less income than highsec L4s. Oops!
Again your corp should use its passive income for paying for sov and the upgrads. Your average member shouldnt see a tax increase. Its simple- null sec pays more after dominion then before dominion. You can argue all you want about more or less then "lvl 4's". But the simple truth is- if you want to do lvl 4's- by all means do them. If you want to stay in null to make isk- you now have improved sources to make your isk from.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 20:03:00 -
[3546]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Yes i have- but i dont have unrealistic expectations either. Dominion upgrades WILL provide more income- for more ppl, if the systems are upgraded.
That sounds like a very unrealistic expectation.
Quote:
Aside from the more anomolies upgrade i keep reading about something theyve been calling a "pirate magnet". The description sounds a lot like more rats to me.
So you haven't read up then?
Quoth CCP:
Pirate Magnets - add two additional guaranteed anomalies per level to your solar system
Quote:
Yes except for the possibility of multi billion isk mods dropping the income will be similar to lvl 4's. Sounds fair to me.
You're talking about the existing anomalies – not the ones being discussed here. Again, you haven't read up.
Quoth CCP:
Financially, the top tier anomalies that will be spawning are much more profitable than mining and ratting currently is, and pretty much on par with level 4s.
Quote:
A miner in null can easily make 50 mill an hour NOW- if he has transport support. Hidden belts sound great- they even come with special rats to shoot. Sounds like an improved situation to me.
So he makes 25M/h. Special rats is something you've dreamed up. And you're still missing the fundamental point that more mining = less valuable ore and that the extra mining come from grav sites that will require you to mine crap ores if you want to get large amounts of the good ones. So either you lose ISK/h by mining crap or you lose ISK/h from not having anything left to mine.
Quote:
Your corp should pay for the upgrades- what do you think the moon goo income is for?
…which assumes that everyone has that kind of passive income, and ignores that this passive income has been reduced because CCP wants alliances to use this upgrade system to make use of active incomes instead. It also completely goes against the main idea behind the sov changes – to make it easier to get into 0.0 – but we all already know that this has failed.
Quote:
Again your corp should use its passive income for paying for sov and the upgrads. Your average member shouldnt see a tax increase. Its simple- null sec pays more after dominion then before dominion.
Funny that. CCP says otherwise. Less passive income, more active income, which has to be gathered by taxes, which means null-sec pays less than before.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.29 02:30:00 -
[3547]
Now i admit im prolly wrong about a few specifics- theres just to many pages of threads to read. A lot of it is contradictory at best.
But still the fact remains- your income in null before dominion is less then your income will be after dominion.
Moon goo income- is not so much getting nerfed as it is distributed among the minerals more. Even if the income drops slightly your corp will have plenty of isk to pay for system sov and upgrades. It may cut down on what your ceo/directors can line their pockets with but eh, cry me a river.
I see a lot of ppl comparing null income with lvl 4 mission income. But i dont see many ppl using ratting ships that even come close to what the average mission ship costs.
seems ppl think they should make as much in a cruiser- as some make in a golem. Unrealistic.
Theres a lot of isk to be made in null- but the fact remains you are completely free to stop whining and join us in hi sec doing lvl 4's if you want.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.29 12:21:00 -
[3548]
Originally by: Future Mutant
But still the fact remains- your income in null before dominion is less then your income will be after dominion.
How is that a fact? Everything you've brought up to suggest that this will happen goes against what CCP is actually saying.
Quote:
Moon goo income- is not so much getting nerfed as it is distributed among the minerals more.
So you're telling me CCP is wrong here too? After all, their express purpose for the nerf is to make it less valuable as part of making the "AFK empires" go away.
Quote:
But i dont see many ppl using ratting ships that even come close to what the average mission ship costs.
Hardly relevant – you use what's best for the purpose, and the best-suited ship is the one that provide the best income. As it happens, a Golem isn't the best-suited ship for 0.0 belt ratting, so it doesn't matter how good it is at L4s. Price has nothing to do with it.
Quote:
Theres a lot of isk to be made in null- but the fact remains you are completely free to stop whining and join us in hi sec doing lvl 4's if you want.
…and that's the whole point. In their attempts to make living in 0.0 more attractive, they've once again made it a better choice to live in highsec.
The stated goal was to compress the nullsec empires; to make it easier for newcomers to get a foothold; to make more people move out; to kill POSbashing; and to remove the AFK:ness of the current system. Of these, only the POS-bash removal will happen, and just like with Exodus, it will only more drive people into empire to run their AFK empires because that's how it's best done.
———
“If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡…
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.”
— Karath Piki |
Gevic
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Posted - 2009.11.29 17:53:00 -
[3549]
Originally by: Tippia
The stated goal was to compress the nullsec empires; to make it easier for newcomers to get a foothold; to make more people move out; to kill POSbashing; and to remove the AFK:ness of the current system. Of these, only the POS-bash removal will happen, and just like with Exodus, it will only more drive people into empire to run their AFK empires because that's how it's best done.
I've GOT IT! That's exactly it! Since everyone, except for the poor bastards that have to maintain and put w/e sov and sov related structures in nullsec, will be in Empire, it will be that much harder to touch anyones income, cause it will most likely be the case that your opponent will be right next to you, missioning along as well.
And since no ones income can be touched, even the most braindead(read: carebear)of alliance/corporations can now make it in nullsec. I mean after all with no actual way of cutting into their income and output, they can throw T1 ships at you all day and not feel a thing.
And the current nullsec factions are already more or less used to it anyway (you have to be really damn dense to try and chain in anything less than .75/.8 truesec, and GOOD exploration anything is pretty damn rare and won't support more than a handful of people per constellation), so its business as usual. Aside from sieging R64 and techntium moons (everyone into Revelations now! doubly so with the new cap changes) there won't be anyone losing any ships to mean 'ole people raiding, making everyone happy.
I've figured it out! CCP's master plan! BWAHAHA!
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.29 23:23:00 -
[3550]
FM, what's worse than your fellating of CCP over these changes that will decrease the "competition" you see in 0.0 earning over your L4 mission running (thereby making your isk "worth more" I guess) is that your feigning of understanding of the logic of these changes is moot since you're obviously just going to stay in Empire running missions.
So...congrats on being "Carebear Prime," I guess?
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:30:00 -
[3551]
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
FM, what's worse than your fellating of CCP over these changes that will decrease the "competition" you see in 0.0 earning over your L4 mission running (thereby making your isk "worth more" I guess) is that your feigning of understanding of the logic of these changes is moot since you're obviously just going to stay in Empire running missions.
So...congrats on being "Carebear Prime," I guess?
Your missunderstanding of game mechanics is only surpassed by your lack of understanding of game economies.
So...congrats on being a "laughingstock", I guess?
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:33:00 -
[3552]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
FM, what's worse than your fellating of CCP over these changes that will decrease the "competition" you see in 0.0 earning over your L4 mission running (thereby making your isk "worth more" I guess) is that your feigning of understanding of the logic of these changes is moot since you're obviously just going to stay in Empire running missions.
So...congrats on being "Carebear Prime," I guess?
Your missunderstanding of game mechanics is only surpassed by your lack of understanding of game economies.
So...congrats on being a "laughingstock", I guess?
Yeah, I guess I'd be an expert if I knew the spawn mechanics of The Blockade down to the second. Doesn't change the fact that you spent half this thread acting like a **** to everyone who plays this game differently than you and now you're purporting to be an expert in a facet of the game that of your own admission you have no interest in now and probably won't post-Dominion.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:52:00 -
[3553]
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
Yeah, I guess I'd be an expert if I knew the spawn mechanics of The Blockade down to the second. Doesn't change the fact that you spent half this thread acting like a **** to everyone who plays this game differently than you and now you're purporting to be an expert in a facet of the game that of your own admission you have no interest in now and probably won't post-Dominion.
I have no problems with ppl playing the game how they want. On the reverse can you say the same? Or are you one of the guys always *****ing about npc corps? Have you used the word "carebear" in this thread?- am is supposed to think you didnt have a negative connotation in mind there?
My problem is when a very small minority in eve thinks they should be treated 500 times better then everyone else. Every null sec captain who ever posted in rage about "quitting eve, canceling their accounts"- should.
My dislike is not because they live in null- my disdain is because they are pathetic whiny douches.
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Kayl Breinhar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.30 02:01:00 -
[3554]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
Yeah, I guess I'd be an expert if I knew the spawn mechanics of The Blockade down to the second. Doesn't change the fact that you spent half this thread acting like a **** to everyone who plays this game differently than you and now you're purporting to be an expert in a facet of the game that of your own admission you have no interest in now and probably won't post-Dominion.
I have no problems with ppl playing the game how they want. On the reverse can you say the same? Or are you one of the guys always *****ing about npc corps? Have you used the word "carebear" in this thread?- am is supposed to think you didnt have a negative connotation in mind there?
My problem is when a very small minority in eve thinks they should be treated 500 times better then everyone else. Every null sec captain who ever posted in rage about "quitting eve, canceling their accounts"- should.
My dislike is not because they live in null- my disdain is because they are pathetic whiny douches.
Well, evidently CCP agrees with you since they're launching an unfinished and unproven patch that seems designed to end large-scale 0.0 warfare forever. So here's a :colbert: for you, champ.
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Keyzer Sozze
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Posted - 2009.11.30 14:10:00 -
[3555]
to be honest i see not much is really going to change the landscape of eve, i look at the cost to do things in null sec still will only drawl out large corp/all....while rest of us will sit in our stations snoop around in our cloaky ships and try and grab the scraps off the table so to speak. the video is awesome to bad the real game is not like that for all the guy with a RL that can only play the game maybe hr or two a nite or less will never benfit from these changes .
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Major Brainfart
Amarr
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.03 05:10:00 -
[3556]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Kayl Breinhar
My problem is when a very small minority in eve thinks they should be treated 500 times better then everyone else. Every null sec captain who ever posted in rage about "quitting eve, canceling their accounts"- should.
My dislike is not because they live in null- my disdain is because they are pathetic whiny douches.
Amen, dude. That is right on. That's why I'm in the process of moving back to highsec right now! Despite Dominion. Living in empire means not being forced to listen to THEM in my chat windows on a daily basis! No amount of rebalancing by CCP will change that. If they could find a way to actually force me to live in 0.0, they'd only succeed in forcing me to play a different mmo.
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Dominicas
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Posted - 2009.12.03 11:22:00 -
[3557]
On a seperate thought; have you wondered that maybe Dominion is simply the next step in CCP profitability.
What do I mean; well the player base of EVE while growing - has slowed tremendously. Income from accounts is static and the company (CCP) is required to increase profits.
Plex's are introduced, popular, legal isk generation - no risk to your character. Now hear me out, Dominion simply positions 'PLEX' or 'instant secure income' as a more viable option for those trying to secure/keep space.
End of the day, a self perpetuating economy for CCP - a good business if you can create the requirment to spend more to do what your already paying to do....
Bad isk sellers... I mean Bad CCP
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HeliosGal
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.03 12:21:00 -
[3558]
end of the day 60000 subscribers is their target. More wormhole spaec be good start but dust will help if its on console and PC
Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00 |
SolinaXex
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Posted - 2009.12.08 07:59:00 -
[3559]
Edited by: SolinaXex on 08/12/2009 08:02:40
Well I find it odd.
We have sov in a system under my main.
But we have been billed 2 times..... wtf?
Not only that the sov had not been running 24 hours when we were billed 2 times yet. And we paid.
And yet even though we paid in less then 24 hours the modules were offlined.... This better be bugged and compensated.
I thought you get billed once every 14 days?
So in 24 hours we paid a ton of money. I hope we do not get billed DAILY!!!
Petitioned, but knowing how crappy CCP petitioning system is I gues I will expect a response in.... May... 2012.... just before the world blows up.... maybe....
Seriously WTF?
Our alliance was also given a updated costs.
The costs do not match whats on the Dev Blog and it also does not match the updated lists.
Please post a updated cost list somewhere.
Apparently it was updated on Dec 2nd.
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zoolkhan
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.02.19 12:48:00 -
[3560]
@CCP Fallout et al
can we get a public statement on the "48 minutes bug" ....where after about that time, a succsessfully onlined and payed for TCU
goes offline again, and sov lost?
To my knowledge there are just two systems in eve where this is happening, but it might still be interesting for all of us to learn more.
As far i know you have been made aware of it by petition since a few days. And i find it odd that on a bug of this significance
not even a "we are working on it" statement is issued.
best regards and in anticipation of your response,
recruiting -forum
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AdmiralJohn
The Unknown Bar and Pub
Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.03.14 04:00:00 -
[3561]
This thread won't die...
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