Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 119 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:12:00 -
[1981]
6m ISK / day seems a bit low, really. With such a low cost, Goons might not collectively quit EVE, thus invalidating the most looked-forward-to feature of Dominion. :-|
On a more serious note, I'm not sure 180m ISK / month is high enough to encourage alliances to focus their pilots on fewer systems. Maybe increase the IH cost to 10m per day or similar, thus focusing the actually useful systems more, but still allow for the dot on the map?
|
Antir
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:13:00 -
[1982]
Originally by: Dharh
Obviously changes should be made, to buff the benfits _and_ nerf lvl 4 empire missions. But all the same, hold and maintaining a sov should be _hard_.
Exactly, it should be difficult to maintain an empire and the rewards should justify it (basically the risk v reward of 0.0 should be balanced), that might make more people come to 0.0 and possibly shake everything up.
|
Dharh
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:14:00 -
[1983]
Originally by: Prognosys
Originally by: Dharh _YES_. To do ENDGAME PVP you need the freakin resources to back such a campaign up. And that will require a fully capable alliance/corp. One that has income from many different sources, including the carebare stuff pvp always hate.
If you don't like it, tough ****. Obviously changes should be made, to buff the benfits _and_ nerf lvl 4 empire missions. But all the same, hold and maintaining a sov should be _hard_.
That's the entire ****ing point of this debate. We're saying that the benefits, especially compared to L4s, are too low. You're basically saying 'well if we ignore the bad thing you're complaining about, everything's fine!'
Because for all intents and purposes _nothing_ they do will probably work out of the gate. They need to see the ISK flows of Dominion and then tweak it. I do not support making it uber now, and then nerfing it later. If the income is not high enough buff it after the fact.
They can also deal with lvl 4 missions later. Or maybe don't have to at all, if equilibrium can be made with 0.0.
|
Zemi Dahut
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:14:00 -
[1984]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.
Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now
What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?
|
Korodan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:17:00 -
[1985]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.
Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now
Hon, put that mouth back to it's proper use - sucking ****s on a seedy corner in Jita 4-4.
|
Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:17:00 -
[1986]
I love how silent CCP has become over this.
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:18:00 -
[1987]
Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.
Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now
What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?
You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
True Knowledge |
Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:19:00 -
[1988]
Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.
Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now
What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?
He is only posting here to get attention. Everyone knows he was a failure and a terrible CSM. The best bet is to just ignore him or talk around him. He gets mad pretty easily.
|
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:23:00 -
[1989]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
You can't read. |
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:23:00 -
[1990]
Edited by: Mkiaki on 08/11/2009 20:23:08 *sails on the tears*
|
|
Mrs Trzzbk
Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:23:00 -
[1991]
Edited by: Mrs Trzzbk on 08/11/2009 20:23:46
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.
Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now
What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?
You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
How will cramming an entire alliance into 1 constellation promote small gang warfare?
And how the **** do cyno jammers hurt small gang warfare? _________________________________________________________
it's good to have land Trust me, I'm a Spacebert. |
Zemi Dahut
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:24:00 -
[1992]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Zemi Dahut You really don't understand what the problem is here which is really not surprising. You should probably have stayed out of this thread since all you're doing is reminding everyone why you failed as a CSM.
Actually Dominion is looking like a pretty good success for my time on the CSM right now
What, making 0.0 less accessible to small alliances and gangs? You're really this delusional?
You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
Large alliances will still control space even if it doesn't show it on the map, they'll just deny other people's ability to live there, just like it was before Sov levels and cynojammers were introduced. This discussion here however is how the upgrades to make the space livable do little to actually accomplish that fact. So again, stay out of the thread as you have little clue of what's actually going on. You won't however as your need for attention outweighs all common sense and Lady Scarlet.
|
Freidrich Hayek
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:24:00 -
[1993]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
Yes, those small gangs that are affected by cyno jammers. Because I know I hate when I can't cyno in my vagabond.
And small-gang PvP flourishes in the prime isk-generating center of... Motsu.
|
Korodan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:25:00 -
[1994]
Originally by: Hertford
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
You can't read.
How many literate "sex workers" have you ever met? Let's be honest.
|
Bobby Atlas
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:27:00 -
[1995]
This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.
|
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:32:00 -
[1996]
Dominion is a monopoly alliance nerf : you heard it here first
|
Future Mutant
Republic Military School
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:32:00 -
[1997]
Originally by: Bobby Atlas This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.
I nominate ^^ this guy^^ as our new forum ****.
Also lol at all the supposed "pvp'ers" crying about dominion.
"Our corp only makes billions off some moons per month! How do you expect us to pay to hold sov?"
Well heres an answer- recruit some isk makers and have them milk the place- then tax them- problem solved.
Move along ppl nothing to see here.
Goons- proving its possible to suck more then bob |
Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:33:00 -
[1998]
I, for one, am all for the scaling back of space and the increased cost of cyno jammers and jump bridgesm, and even the nerf of R64 moons. I am also certain that all of our in-game enemies and allies feel basically the same way.
Right now the problem is that these changes were supposed to come with an added benefit of the ability to make this consolidated, and more vulnerable space, a good home for your alliance. As in you will not want to leave it and if you do leave it your space is more vulnerable.
Except now that the space is worth even less than before. Extra cost plus no added benefits, and let me be clear these benefits are completely worthless under current mechanics, means less desire to be in 0.0 space.
I can see many of the current powerblocs moving to NPC 0.0 space because of this.
|
Hertford
Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:33:00 -
[1999]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Bobby Atlas This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.
I nominate ^^ this guy^^ as our new forum ****.
Also lol at all the supposed "pvp'ers" crying about dominion.
"Our corp only makes billions off some moons per month! How do you expect us to pay to hold sov?"
Well heres an answer- recruit some isk makers and have them milk the place- then tax them- problem solved.
Move along ppl nothing to see here.
You're spot on, oh so spot on. We should get people to stop running missions in highsec and instead 'rat' in anomalies, for less ISK per hour and with a higher tax rate than NPC corps.
Thanks for solving all the problem brought up in this thread!
Enjoy the small gang PvP when there's 50+ people in each system! |
Lucas Pantelis
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:34:00 -
[2000]
Originally by: Future Mutant
Originally by: Bobby Atlas This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.
I nominate ^^ this guy^^ as our new forum ****.
Also lol at all the supposed "pvp'ers" crying about dominion.
"Our corp only makes billions off some moons per month! How do you expect us to pay to hold sov?"
Well heres an answer- recruit some isk makers and have them milk the place- then tax them- problem solved.
Move along ppl nothing to see here.
Why will the isk makers move there to milk it if they earn less money there even ignoring having to pay rent?
|
|
Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:36:00 -
[2001]
It's a source of great amusement as to the number of posts in this thread that are from goonswarm/atlas. They're doing 90% of the whining.
In typical CCP style CCP has managed to come up with something completely unique and different, much to the complete dismay of most of the players involved.
The fact that maintaining sov requires pure ISK is a very interesting move by CCP. Sov is no longer able to be subsidized by macro ice miners (as you can do with POSes) and that sucking sound is CONCORD hoovering up the hundreds of billions of ISK that the alliances hold so dear.
Indeed, those who want to hold space will *really* want to hold it in the future.
One funny note is that once again we're chained to the hard limit of ISK/hour that is L4 missions in empire. Straight away everyone has compared how profitable 0.0 is vs. L4 highsec missions. I made note of this limit when addressing w-space and the cost of T3 ships due to the hard limit of L4 mission profitability but everyone told me to shut up. Now where are we? Right back at the same spot. L4 missions are once again providing a hard floor as to how much something should be worth in order to spend the effort doing it. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
|
Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:37:00 -
[2002]
Originally by: Freidrich Hayek
And small-gang PvP flourishes in the prime isk-generating center of... Motsu.
If Motsu was 0.0 it would be hog-heaven.
True Knowledge |
Dharh
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:39:00 -
[2003]
Originally by: Hertford Enjoy the small gang PvP when there's 50+ people in each system!
Did you just say that? I need to wash out my eyes to make sure.
|
Ivanna Nuke
Gallente Daralux
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:45:00 -
[2004]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus It's a source of great amusement as to the number of posts in this thread that are from goonswarm/atlas. They're doing 90% of the whining.
In typical CCP style CCP has managed to come up with something completely unique and different, much to the complete dismay of most of the players involved.
The fact that maintaining sov requires pure ISK is a very interesting move by CCP. Sov is no longer able to be subsidized by macro ice miners (as you can do with POSes) and that sucking sound is CONCORD hoovering up the hundreds of billions of ISK that the alliances hold so dear.
Indeed, those who want to hold space will *really* want to hold it in the future.
One funny note is that once again we're chained to the hard limit of ISK/hour that is L4 missions in empire. Straight away everyone has compared how profitable 0.0 is vs. L4 highsec missions. I made note of this limit when addressing w-space and the cost of T3 ships due to the hard limit of L4 mission profitability but everyone told me to shut up. Now where are we? Right back at the same spot. L4 missions are once again providing a hard floor as to how much something should be worth in order to spend the effort doing it.
This really...
|
Blackjack Turner
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:51:00 -
[2005]
Actually, from the dev blog information and the responses in here it appears that the initial goal for CCP is a major wipe of almost all 0.0 entities. Call it a reset.
I'm, sure that within 30-60 days after deployment, they'll "adjust" the costs as well as tweaking the upgrades to get everyone moving back out there.
|
Qlanth
Caldari Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:53:00 -
[2006]
Edited by: Qlanth on 08/11/2009 20:53:43
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Freidrich Hayek
And small-gang PvP flourishes in the prime isk-generating center of... Motsu.
If Motsu was 0.0 it would be hog-heaven.
0.0 does have its own Motsu
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/G-ME2K/agents#Tiet_Saggilo
And if the changes go through the way CCP has layed out the only thing in 0.0 worth fighting over will be access to NPC stations and systems like this one.
|
Gabriel Youngs
Caldari Controlled Carnage Crimson Steel Empire
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:53:00 -
[2007]
Wow, this threadnaught surpassed the four year old dead horse POS thread in three days!!
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. |
Hratli Smirks
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:55:00 -
[2008]
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.
Would like this answered because seriously, if 0.0 is supposed to be less profitable than 0.0 then there's no reason to try to live out here as opposed to hang out in Empire and NPC sov which end up having the most profitable resource general alliance membership have direct access to (level 4 Q20 agents)
((except for Blood Raider NPC space which doesn't have a Q20 L4 agent))
And if alliance members don't make money in their space then they don't spend time in their territory at which point there is no point sending a small gang through for ~good fights~ because there won't be anyone to shoot.
I mean I guess a small gang could drop those sov stealing gadgets but unless they did it in a valuable moon system (which are getting nerfed and thus less valuable) nobody would bother showing up.
If you did do it in a sov'd R64 moon system (predicated on R64 moons still being that much more valuable than anything else) then chances are it will have a cynojammer and jumpbridge upgrade and haha wow POS fights over moons in cynojammed/JB systems wooooooooooooo.
Honestly at this point I'm more excited about talk of moving to Syndicate or NPC Delve or Stain than I am about any of those sov improvements
|
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:56:00 -
[2009]
Originally by: Layla
Originally by: Moore cyno Don't know if anyone suggested this idea, as i have to admit i didn't read all 60 pages :-)
I both agree and disagree with the concern that the upkeep cost is too high. It will be too much to draw out smaller alliances, and large volumes of space will become unused. However, claiming space shouldn't be so cheap/easy that large alliances will just keep all their space and the rest claimed by small entities.
So, the goal is to bring out more people and smaller entities to 0.0, and force people to actively use the space. But as the grind needed to make that profitable is "a lot" it wont happen with the current numbers. Decreasing the cost too much wont open up any space as the existing alliances will just keep their space. Finding a compromise cost which achieves both goals, is in my opinion more or less impossible with the current mechanics.
Solution: Link activity index to upkeep cost.
Instead of just having a fixed large upkeep cost, forcing alliances to use much grinding time before any profit is seen, decrease upkeep if activity index is high. I.e. super high activity index over a month in an upkeep system, upkeep cost is decreased by 90% (or some other significant number), low activity index alliance pays the full cost. Probably should be some scaling to systems around claimed, such that ratting, mining, plexing will still improve activity index say by a factor 0.5 at neighbouring systems and so forth. Obviously passive income such as moon mining shouldn't decrease upkeep.
This will accomplish exactly what was intended. Unused space will be left, actively claimed and used systems can become profitable.
I like this idea. It would go a long way to resolving the concerns being expressed, imo
Simple and excellent idea.
Maybe double initial suggested costs in the devblog to create a baseline cost.
Then make the cost of actually holding sov be the baseline cost / highest economic development index (whether it be military, mining, whatever).
So a system with development 2 would be costs as in devblog. Highest development level of 4 would be half the cost, etc.
That way the costs for holding highly developed space would be reasonable, but, the unnecessary sprawl that is currently hurting the game would be spectacularly unsustainable.
To make the numbers work, the time it takes to increase development level would have to be lowered so there would not be a prohibitive cost while waiting for highly used systems to increase in development level: this is a good thing anyway; 100 days to reach development level 5 is a VERY strong disincentive to wars of conquest (sure, the other guy might have better space than yours, but, if it will take 100 days for it to get as good as your old space, probably not worth doing)
|
Dualshock
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2009.11.08 20:57:00 -
[2010]
Originally by: Bobby Atlas This thread lost most of its value at page 60, stop ****ting the place up - post something on topic and constructive or do not post at all.
you forgot to quote a jade post when you wrote this
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100 .. 119 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |