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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
De'Vadder
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.08 21:52:00 -
[2041]
Originally by: Breaker77
Yeah I see thousands of people just waiting to go to 0.0 where they can be killed in a number of ways just to make 2 million ISK an hour after taxes
Thats why i added that 1/2 of the bounty gets taxed by one side, 1/2 by the other, that means that you still pay taxes for the bounty once. Ill explain it: Lets say a rat gives you 1m of bounty. You are in a corp that takes 20% tax. Currently that would leave you with 800k. Lets say you did it in the space of an NRDS alliance that has the 'killed rat in my space'-tax set to 10%. Now 500k would get taxed by your corp at 20% and 500k would be taxed by the sov holder at 10% leaving you at 850k. It wouldnt cut at all in the individual carebears income but its corp, thats true, and i understand that cutting every highsec corps income into half wouldnt work, i guess. But maybe if a Alliance indeed takes that tax first and it would most of the time be like 5%? 95% of a 0.0 rat in an upgraded system might be better than some other rat, but again, the main problem is that when it comes to individual carebearing, nothing beats lvl4 what is imho one of the biggest problems of 0.0 altogether. And why is there still nothing that sets content apart from signature? Is that intentional or technically imposible? |
Sethur Blackcoat
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 21:53:00 -
[2042]
Edited by: Sethur Blackcoat on 08/11/2009 21:53:31
Originally by: Dharh YES. Provided you don't limit yourself to only ratting and farming moon goo.
Sorry but those are the two most profitable reliable ways of isk generation in 0.0. vOv
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.08 21:54:00 -
[2043]
Originally by: Kieselguhr Kid
Originally by: Bellum Eternus The fact that maintaining sov requires pure ISK is a very interesting move by CCP. Sov is no longer able to be subsidized by macro ice miners (as you can do with POSes) and that sucking sound is CONCORD hoovering up the hundreds of billions of ISK that the alliances hold so dear.
Why would we hold sov in any of Delve/Querious except the handful of JB systems we need for logistics? We're not going to, so the isk sink you're suggesting doesn't exist.
Quote: Indeed, those who want to hold space will *really* want to hold it in the future.
Correct. We won't hold sov. We'll just shoot anyone who tries to move into the D/Q backwater areas. They won't be able to leave without getting past us, won't be able to import anything and won't be able to PvE without running into cloaked goons, but if they really want to hold sov and spend billions of isk on useless systems they could probably do it for a few weeks before we get bored and drop caps. Drunk and Stoned managed to sit in their one Delve system for 3 months *now* before anyone cared enough so you can expect much the same thing, except that Drunk and Stoned didn't pay CCP several billion isk for the privilege of upgrading their system before we took it back.
Quote: One funny note is that once again we're chained to the hard limit of ISK/hour that is L4 missions in empire.
maybe CCP should address that limit instead of proposing that we spend 100b+ upgrading all of Delve to be slightly worse than highsec when we have several NPC L4 agents in the middle of our space as it is
and do tell how small gang pvp is going to flourish in G-TT with 100 GS and Rebellion crammed into it 24/7
You're preaching to the wrong guy noob.
You spent your entire post whining and telling me about just how much you're not going to hold space or pay fees etc.
I know you won't. I certainly wouldn't.
Quote: Why would we hold sov in any of Delve/Querious except the handful of JB systems we need for logistics? We're not going to, so the isk sink you're suggesting doesn't exist
.
I'm saying if anyone did, it would, but of course no one will. Wasted effort pointing that out to me.
Quote: maybe CCP should address that limit instead of proposing that we spend 100b+ upgrading all of Delve to be slightly worse than highsec when we have several NPC L4 agents in the middle of our space as it is
and do tell how small gang pvp is going to flourish in G-TT with 100 GS and Rebellion crammed into it 24/7
DUHHHHHHH. Again, you're not telling me anything I don't already know/get. Why am I going to tell you how small gang PVP is going to flourish? It won't. I know it won't. Most players know it won't. You're whining at the wrong guy.
The 0.0 alliances are all butthurt over this and it's pretty funny to me personally. The alliances are used to billions in passive income and now CCP is removing that across the board and everyone is being a girl about it. The easy money in 0.0 is going away and it's not coming back. Good. Now all we need is an adjustment to L4s in empire so that it's less profitable to run L4s than it is to live in 0.0 and we're set. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:00:00 -
[2044]
Originally by: Jade Constantine 0.0 is where you go as an territorial leader when you want to leave an imperialist legacy in the legend of eve really.
If all you care about is profit and isk-making then you probably shouldn't have left the hisec mission hubs in the first place.
You're delusional and fail to appreciate the amount of effort that is required to hold sov, something you have absolutely no experience doing.
If it were the case that highsec was the endgame in ISK earning via NPC means, then 0.0 would be just as barren as lowsec. It just so happens that 0.0 has very profitable items still left (r64s, and the 10/10 complex that should be removed in BJD4), although r64 value will be decimated come Dominion.
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:01:00 -
[2045]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Originally by: Dharh YES. Provided you don't limit yourself to only ratting and farming moon goo.
very few alliances allow moon goo to be an integral part of personal income.
in other words, it sounds like you want moon goo to push earning ISK in 0.0 over the edge, outside of providing income alliances need to hold sov / do reimbursements (you're dumb)
That's the status quo. 0.0 space is about equivalent to empire for individual isk earning (funny enough, the places were the real isk is from pve content (as opposed to building/trading) is wh-space and lowsec (yes, lowsec: level 5's and fw missions are hugely lucrative)). Moon mining IS what puts 0.0 over the top and yes, its better for the individual if the isk goes to ship reimbursements and capital programs (as opposed to supercap programs and director RMT).
This will not change: moon minerals aren't being nerfed if you look at the numbers; the high value is just shifting from dysprosium and prom to technetium (bottleneck will be just as bad if not worse, so value will be just as high if not higher).
As long as there is huge collective income, individual income can be equivalent and its still worth it to be there if your corporation uses it for the common good. Because of CCP's math fail with the moon mineral changes, this will not change. I'd accept your argument if the moon mineral bottleneck/overvalue problem was actually getting fixed, but, its not. Despite the equivalent values for individuals it still makes sense for individuals to go out to 0.0 now because of the collective benefit for their group and that won't change.
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:03:00 -
[2046]
I read 67 pages of this, and the first thing I have to post when I get to the bottom of it is...a post making fun of Jade Constantine. FML.
Originally by: Jade Constantine You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
You are, as ever, letting your prejudices in favour of your personal play style run away with your brain here. Most people in this thread - yes, even the Goons - agree that alliances being forced to scale back their claims is good. Losing the universal cyno jam is less popular, but most of the people who have expressed anything other than sticker shock seem to like that as well.
The thing is, if you want alliances to scale back, you have to let them scale back. If Goons are going to shed 60% of their space and fall back to Delve only(which I think is about the smallest you can reasonably expect them to shrink to), they need to be able to support a 5000-man alliance out of one region - reimbursement programs, capital construction, Titans, player ships, jump freighters, ratting ships, sniper HAC gangs, the works, on an individual, corporate, and alliance level. And while the Goons have agents in NPC Delve to fall back on, most alliances don't, so I'll ignore them for a second.
This proposal doesn't give alliances the money they need. Even if anomalies become everything that everyone wants them to be, you'll still get maybe 5-10 players in the average system. Unless just about every system in Delve hits max upgrades, it won't be able to support GoonSwarm. In other words, no matter what the sov claims say, or what the cyno jammer configuration looks like, they'll own pretty much as much space as they do now.
As for the bit about small groups, you seem to have missed the point. When people talk about small groups in 0.0, they don't mean roving gangs of "guerrillas". They mean a 200-man alliance holding a couple systems. Small gangs will always be able to move around, and occasionally find fights - I agree that they need more targets for them, but that wasn't the point of Dominion. The point of Dominion from the point of view of small players was supposed to be allowing small groups to hold space, not to fly around and gank/get ganked. Anyone can fly around, but at present, nobody under about 1000 members can hold so much as a system without big friends. That is what this was supposed to fix, but unless it actually succeeds at shrinking big alliances(which the current proposal won't do, because it doesn't let them move inward and still have anything to do), then it won't loosen anything up, no matter what the coloured dots say. That is why this expansion fails - not because it makes GoonSwarm's life harder, but because it makes Random 300-Man Wannabes Alliance's life no easier. It's the status quo with a hat.
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Daemonspirit
An Android Lust
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:05:00 -
[2047]
Originally by: cok cola
<<snippage>>
dominion is lacking 2 things! something for 0.0 entities to fight over, and a reason for highsec entities to come to 0.0.
<<<more snippage>>>
why should an alliance PAY to provide their members with the same isk/hr they could get RISK FREE with a lvl 4 mission alt which can be trained VERY QUICKLY.
>>>>NEWSFLASH!<<<<
Take every mission out of the game (except for starter missions for newbs). Still won't create a mass exodus out to 0.0.
Why?
People have no reason to care about 0.0 power blocks. Nor are they ever given a reason to care - doesn't have a dhammn thing to do with lvl 4's... ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Winchestori
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:05:00 -
[2048]
CCP I would like to tell you the story of this company called SOE that made an MMO called Star Wars Galaxies...
(you're killing this game)
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:07:00 -
[2049]
Originally by: Mahke Despite the equivalent values for individuals it still makes sense for individuals to go out to 0.0 now because of the collective benefit for their group and that won't change.
You're right in that regard, as long as those individual groups are part of a large alliance with guaranteed protection. I happen to fall into that case, owning a large amount of highly-profitable moons (that is, until speculation killed the market). Anyone else attempting a venture not allied its neighbors will be curb stomped, very much unlike what CCP wants (I guess).
And the crazy thing that CCP doesn't understand is that control and influence is not directly tied to sov claiming and never has.
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Vivian Azure
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:08:00 -
[2050]
Edited by: Vivian Azure on 08/11/2009 22:14:09 OK, I got a simple solution to adress the problems most people seem to have with the new system.
People say, that the cost of holding Sov itself is not the problem, but that LvL 4 missions do give better/more rwards then the new system will give in 0.0.
So what about lowering the rewards of all missions in empire-space by 50%?
Would that make the people more happy?
Inflating the economy with ISK by adding more rewards in 0.0 is not the solution tbh. CCP tries to install a very big ISK-sink with the new sovereignity bills, and rightfully so, as theres way too much money injected into the system right now.
So yes, let's cut all empire-mission rewards by 50% and the problem is solved, allthough we keep the announced changes.
---
But guess what. Empire-dwellers won't leave towards 0.0, not even a single one. They simply will stay in empire-space flying LvL 4 missions, but now they need to fly twice as much missions before they can buy that new shiny ship or module. You people need to understand, that those players in empire are not interested in PvP or alliance-warfare etc... they just want to shoot at the red cross' after a day at work. These people are people who would play WoW or whatever, if there where spaceships instead of dwarfs and elves.
With Star Trek, Star Wars, Jumpgate Evolution and Black Prophecy near release, EvE will see a big exodus of these empire-dwellers, so just wait and see how the next 6 month is paying out.
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Virtuozzo
The Collective Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:10:00 -
[2051]
EVE Online Dominion
Death & Taxes in the Sandbox
Sign up now!
(could not resist) |
Korodan
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:11:00 -
[2052]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto I read 67 pages of this, and the first thing I have to post when I get to the bottom of it is...a post making fun of Jade Constantine. FML.
Originally by: Jade Constantine You need to stop listening to the spam and consider the arguments. You have it directly backwards. Losing the landscape of cyno-jammers and omni-claims will make 0.0 much more accessible for small gang pvp.
As indeed will the increased need for standing alliances to earn money in actual space.
You are, as ever, letting your prejudices in favour of your personal play style run away with your brain here. Most people in this thread - yes, even the Goons - agree that alliances being forced to scale back their claims is good. Losing the universal cyno jam is less popular, but most of the people who have expressed anything other than sticker shock seem to like that as well.
The thing is, if you want alliances to scale back, you have to let them scale back. If Goons are going to shed 60% of their space and fall back to Delve only(which I think is about the smallest you can reasonably expect them to shrink to), they need to be able to support a 5000-man alliance out of one region - reimbursement programs, capital construction, Titans, player ships, jump freighters, ratting ships, sniper HAC gangs, the works, on an individual, corporate, and alliance level. And while the Goons have agents in NPC Delve to fall back on, most alliances don't, so I'll ignore them for a second.
This proposal doesn't give alliances the money they need. Even if anomalies become everything that everyone wants them to be, you'll still get maybe 5-10 players in the average system. Unless just about every system in Delve hits max upgrades, it won't be able to support GoonSwarm. In other words, no matter what the sov claims say, or what the cyno jammer configuration looks like, they'll own pretty much as much space as they do now.
As for the bit about small groups, you seem to have missed the point. When people talk about small groups in 0.0, they don't mean roving gangs of "guerrillas". They mean a 200-man alliance holding a couple systems. Small gangs will always be able to move around, and occasionally find fights - I agree that they need more targets for them, but that wasn't the point of Dominion. The point of Dominion from the point of view of small players was supposed to be allowing small groups to hold space, not to fly around and gank/get ganked. Anyone can fly around, but at present, nobody under about 1000 members can hold so much as a system without big friends. That is what this was supposed to fix, but unless it actually succeeds at shrinking big alliances(which the current proposal won't do, because it doesn't let them move inward and still have anything to do), then it won't loosen anything up, no matter what the coloured dots say. That is why this expansion fails - not because it makes GoonSwarm's life harder, but because it makes Random 300-Man Wannabes Alliance's life no easier. It's the status quo with a hat.
This is a Good Post and I endorse it.
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:12:00 -
[2053]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto I read 67 pages of this, and the first thing I have to post when I get to the bottom of it is...a post making fun of Jade Constantine. FML.
That might be worth a couple of dozen goon votes for you Herschel. But its a very long way from convincing me that you have a point.
0.0 becomes more interesting when the existing power-blocs need to struggle for their existence and make significant strategic choices on spending their income.
Still, if CCP hangs tough and sticks to their guns I'll guess we'll see in a month or two.
If they fold and reduce rents to a nominal nonsense fee then nothing will change and 0.0 stays the same as it has for the last year.
Ultimately this is simply one of those moments in the history of Eve that people will need to adapt or die. (or whine against the "nerf"). Time will tell which way was the best option.
Coming out "against" the Dominion rent model is probably good for a few votes for you though Herschel so don't let me stop you
True Knowledge |
Dharh
Gallente Ace Adventure Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:12:00 -
[2054]
Originally by: Sally Bestonge
Originally by: Dharh YES. Provided you don't limit yourself to only ratting and farming moon goo.
very few alliances allow moon goo to be an integral part of personal income.
in other words, it sounds like you want moon goo to push earning ISK in 0.0 over the edge, outside of providing income alliances need to hold sov / do reimbursements (you're dumb)
HURR. Moon goo and ratting are pretty good profits. They just aren't going to be good _enough_ for the new costs. Thus you will need to diversify. I don't want moon good to be what 'push[es] earning ISK in 0.0 over the edge'. However, I seriously think its a broken concept that ratting and moon goo could ever possibly be enough to sustain a sov.
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Sethur Blackcoat
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:12:00 -
[2055]
Edited by: Sethur Blackcoat on 08/11/2009 22:15:37
Originally by: Vivian Azure OK, I got a simple solution to adress the problems most people seem to have with the new system.
People say, that the cost of holding Sov itself is not the problem, but that LvL 4 missions do give better/more rwards then the new system will give in 0.0.
So what about lowering the rewards of all missions in empire-space by 50%?
Would that make the people more happy?
Inflating the economy with ISK by adding more rewards in 0.0 is not the solution tbh. CCP tries to install a very big ISK-sink with the new sovereignity bills, and rightfully so, as theres way too much money injected into the system right now.
So yes, let's cut all empire-mission rewards by 50% and the problem is solved, allthough we keep the announced changes.
I'm sure the lowsec and 0.0 dwellers would be content with that, but realistically, CCP simply cannot do that because they would lose a good part of their majority subscriber base (that being highsec missionrunners). Whether you make 0.0 more profitable or highsec less is functionally equivalent from a risk/reward viewpoint, but from an economic standpoint CCP simply can't risk nerfing their big cash cow. That's why people are suggesting mostly measures that make 0.0 better, even if it would lead to some amount of inflation.
I have no idea how bad that would end up being, I'm not an economist, maybe CCP should hire one to figure this out.
e: Originally by: Jade Constantine 0.0 becomes more interesting when the existing power-blocs need to struggle for their existence and make significant strategic choices on spending their income.
You still haven't given a reason why living in 0.0 should be harder and less profitable than highsec apart from "I expect everyone to be so narcissistic as to spend a lot of money/be willing to earn less money for nothing but seeing his alliance name on an autogenerated sov map."
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Daemonspirit
An Android Lust
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:16:00 -
[2056]
Originally by: Inferno Styx to make 0.0 attractive you honestly need to make about 50% more then high sec at the least. If you can make 50% more isk then you'll see lots of people running out to 0.0.
You could make 0.0 250% more than hi-sec, and you might get some people out there. But srsly, those who want to be in 0.0 are.
Those who couldn't care less aren't - Dominion will not change that equation because it doesn't address the problem.
The problem being (NOT LEVEL 4's!) but rather this:
Why should *I* care? Or, why should anyone care?
If you can't answer that question without talking about lvl 4's - you don't have a clue why people don't go to 0.0.
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:16:00 -
[2057]
Originally by: Vivian Azure So yes, let's cut all empire-mission rewards by 50% and the problem is solved, allthough we keep the announced changes.
It's not going to happen since that would impact the majority of players who play EVE On Line. And that would be bad business.
I don't believe there's too much ISK in the game, but I do believe that EVE is suffering from an extreme imbalance in wealth due to constructs such as r64 moon goo and T2 BPOs. Fixing ISK flow and the economy in EVE will require a big overhaul, not just one simple 'fix' that many people ascribe to.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:17:00 -
[2058]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto I read 67 pages of this, and the first thing I have to post when I get to the bottom of it is...a post making fun of Jade Constantine. FML.
0.0 becomes more interesting when the existing power-blocs need to struggle for their existence and make significant strategic choices on spending their income.
Hint: there is 69 pages of posts explaining why it wont do any of that.
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Sethur Blackcoat
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:19:00 -
[2059]
Originally by: Daemonspirit Why should *I* care? Or, why should anyone care?
I can't speak for you, but other people may care because they want money as quickly as possible (without buying PLEXes) and 0.0 would offer that more than highsec? I dunno, greed is usually a pretty good motivator.
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Daemonspirit
An Android Lust
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:21:00 -
[2060]
Originally by: Sethur Blackcoat
Originally by: Daemonspirit Why should *I* care? Or, why should anyone care?
I can't speak for you, but other people may care because they want money as quickly as possible (without buying PLEXes) and 0.0 would offer that more than highsec? I dunno, greed is usually a pretty good motivator.
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
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Xeronn
Amarr ROMANIA Renegades Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:22:00 -
[2061]
Oh how shortsigthed people tend to be
ok lets immagine for a second CCP gets there numbers right (wishfull thinking...but indulge me) , and0.0 becumes 50% better then empire isk-wise from rats
ok...now what
if EVERYONE can upgrade everything ...in the end you can be sure people will take the path of least resistance and you`ll end up with all of 0.0 fully upgraded , no reason whatsoever to go for another system since it wont be any better or worse then your system.....
and we`ll all be equal , no more social discriminations , perfect comunism , we`ll all farm exactly the same rats , we`ll all fly exactly the same roaming hacs , fighting our neighbours hacs...then return to our little hubs to farm just as much isk/hour as every other bastard in eve
this to me looks like a horrible arena scenario
imho eve cant work without resource scarcity . If everyone can get it "free" (as in not killing other people for it) , people WILL get it free
sure , e-pen wars will last a while but they will eventually die off . In a few generations , the bees will only remember there hatred for bobits as stuff of legends
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:23:00 -
[2062]
Originally by: Sethur Blackcoat You still haven't given a reason why living in 0.0 should be harder and less profitable than highsec apart from "I expect everyone to be so narcissistic as to spend a lot of money/be willing to earn less money for nothing but seeing his alliance name on an autogenerated sov map."
Granted its difficult to find in the torrent of spam but I have given you plenty of reasons in previous posts. If you click on my avatar to the left of the message you can read back. Have fun!
True Knowledge |
Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:24:00 -
[2063]
Originally by: Jade Constantine 0.0 becomes more interesting when the existing power-blocs need to struggle for their existence and make significant strategic choices on spending their income.
Still, if CCP hangs tough and sticks to their guns I'll guess we'll see in a month or two.
If they fold and reduce rents to a nominal nonsense fee then nothing will change and 0.0 stays the same as it has for the last year.
Ultimately this is simply one of those moments in the history of Eve that people will need to adapt or die. (or whine against the "nerf"). Time will tell which way was the best option.
Coming out "against" the Dominion rent model is probably good for a few votes for you though Herschel so don't let me stop you
You don't realize that NPC 0.0 space is going to become the prime real estate?
And that without 0.0 landmarks (r64s, static complexes of yore, etc) there will be no reason to fight? Unless you really believe that 0.0 should just be a constant free-for-all zone with no significant means to support its population?
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DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:24:00 -
[2064]
I doubt anyone is going to read this far, but my three simple requests anyway:
1. Increase three of the upkeep costs
- supercap construction upkeep 1mil -> 10mil
- base cost 20mil -> 30mil
- cyno jammer cost 25mil -> 40mil
2. Remove all forms of insurance on all capitals as they're a moronic isk faucet that goes against the intended purpose of basic insurance, of capitals, and of giant alliance wars.
3. POS should be made easier to kill.
- No offensive or defensive capability on HIGH SEC POS, industrial arrays only. Also has the benefit of enabling short term mercenary contract goals and giving people a reason to base their operations in low sec.
- Using industrial arrays prevents use of shield hardeners. Unlike high sec restrictions, EW/neut/warp/web is still allowed. This means the only proper deathstars in EVE are military logistics depots with hangars and ship arrays.
- Structures which are NOT ONLINE should only have a fraction of their HP. This makes abandoned offline crap easier to clean up, and means you might actually have to defend an onlining tower.
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Sethur Blackcoat
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:24:00 -
[2065]
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Your masterful rolleyes has slain the idea that someone might do things for a reason that has been considered for at least thousands of years one of the great sins.
Why don't you work on lust, next.
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Daemonspirit
An Android Lust
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:28:00 -
[2066]
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 08/11/2009 22:28:43
Originally by: Sethur Blackcoat Edited by: Sethur Blackcoat on 08/11/2009 22:25:49
Originally by: Daemonspirit
Your masterful rolleyes has slain the idea that someone might do things for a reason that has been considered for at least thousands of years one of the great sins.
Why don't you work on lust, next.
Ok, let me try this:
I know plenty of people that reside in low-sec or hi-sec. They don't have time for, or interest in, the politics of 0.0. Without an interest in the politics of 0.0, and the ability to find pvp either in low-sec or hi-sec wars, just why would anyone go to 0.0?
Jade is closest when he mentions the epic wars, disagreements, etc., but he just gets trolled left and right...
Which is another disincentive to go anywhere near 0.0.
Get it now? ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:29:00 -
[2067]
Originally by: Jade Constantine That might be worth a couple of dozen goon votes for you Herschel. But its a very long way from convincing me that you have a point.
Please, Goons will vote for Goons. I don't have a shot there. I'm going for the Atlas vote
Originally by: Jade Constantine 0.0 becomes more interesting when the existing power-blocs need to struggle for their existence and make significant strategic choices on spending their income.
Agreed. It should never be a walk in the park to live in 0.0 space.
Originally by: Jade Constantine If they fold and reduce rents to a nominal nonsense fee then nothing will change and 0.0 stays the same as it has for the last year.
The fees are not the problem. I liked the original fee structure - taking a system should be a serious hit to the wallet. The problem is that there's not much actual reason to take a system right now. I want upgrades that let a good system house 50 people making 40 mil/hour each, at a minimum. If you put that into place, nobody would give a solitary damn about the fees.
Originally by: Jade Constantine Coming out "against" the Dominion rent model is probably good for a few votes for you though Herschel so don't let me stop you
I'm for the rent model, though I'm not sure whether isk is the right commodity to be paying rent in(but that's a minor issue). I'm just saying, the proposed upgrades look like very good ones to add for the first tier. Where are the other four tiers?
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Vivian Azure
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:30:00 -
[2068]
Originally by: Sethur Blackcoat
Originally by: Daemonspirit Why should *I* care? Or, why should anyone care?
I can't speak for you, but other people may care because they want money as quickly as possible (without buying PLEXes) and 0.0 would offer that more than highsec? I dunno, greed is usually a pretty good motivator.
No. You don't get 50% of EvE's population apparently. Those, who are not alt-characters of 0.0-players.
Those people will be happily flying LvL 4 missions in empire and not think for a second about moving to 0.0, even if you would boost the rewards by 500%. The reason for them to stay in empire is, that they're not interested in PvP, or being ganked etc. They just want to shoot at these NPCs after a day at work, chatting with some friends etc.
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Shawna Gray
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:30:00 -
[2069]
Originally by: Xeronn
imho eve cant work without resource scarcity . If everyone can get it "free" (as in not killing other people for it) , people WILL get it free
You touch upon the key to why lvl4's have such an impact on everything else in the game and why they badly need a nerf. Every active way to make isk is measured up to that endless risk free isk faucet.
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Gabriel Youngs
Caldari Controlled Carnage Crimson Steel Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.08 22:32:00 -
[2070]
People are asking "if not moongoo then what do we fight over?"
Think about what would be the ultimate resource in space in RL...having trouble...
I'll help you out...EARTH-LIKE PLANETS!!!
Bring us planetary interaction where every planet has a base index that never changes, more like earth the higher the index, less like earth the lower. The index controls how much infrastructure can be placed on it. More infrastructure means more money. Planatary economies produce a straight ISK supply to the controlling alliance in the form of taxes as well as minerals from mining and trade goods from industry.
When one planet is producing 10-20 billion a month in revenue of one type or another because of its infrastructure it makes it hard NOT to justify attacking and conquering it...or at least planetary bombing raids to decrease your enemies ISK supply.
YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. |
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