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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:41:00 -
[601]
Originally by: Tebis eh most of the rage is over how this was presented to the community rather than the actual nerf.. it was pretty terrible PR
If youve played the game long enough to afford and be able to fly a super cap - you will be no strange to CCPs woefull PR. So dont act all shocked and melodramatic.
You will also remember, however, CCP Zuluparks "proposed carrier nerf" which never hit the game due to massive whinage from capital pilots.
Given the time between then and now, and the skill training times and isk costs of the MOM, I suspect its THE VERY SAME WHINERS WHO CRUSHED CCP ZULUPARK THAT ARE TRYING TO SQUASH CCP NOZH.
Im giving 2 to 1 on, that CCP back down again on this one. You wait and see
SKUNK
(o)
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Iguny
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:41:00 -
[602]
Edited by: Iguny on 13/11/2009 00:41:43
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role
Isn't that exactly what it was on SISI, up until a few days ago?
Originally by: CCP Nozh which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets
"Explosion Velocity: 45"
???
Quote: nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage
My nyx can move 80 m/s while it kills things, YES!
Quote: The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts
You're right, your supercap player base is dumb and overlooking this fact. Oh, and taking multiple billions worth of mostly uninsurable super cap onto the field isn't a commitment, nor is having a dedicated account/character + pos to keep it.
Originally by: CCP Nozh There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
Innapropriate language removed. Zymurgist
This man is speakin truth!
Originally by: Letifer Deus
Quote: What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role
Isn't that exactly what it was on SISI, up until a few days ago?
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:42:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Ikoma Sunblazer HOLY **** THEY GOT MODS ON STANDBY MY POSTD GOT DELETED QUICKFAST
Ikoma Sunblazer, danger2society
Seriously though, as waaaaaaaaaaah/raaaaaage as many of the posts are, the amount of deletion that is going on is unwarranted (let us read the tears CCP // let people who just lost 10b express their frustration).
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:43:00 -
[604]
Edited by: Rexthor Hammerfists on 13/11/2009 00:43:52
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:36:13
Originally by: Battle Tested so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game.
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK
There was a devblog showing their intentions with the motherships. The now prenerf design had been on sisi for months with little to no remarks for any changes and now 2 weeks before dominion hits ccp turns around 180¦ changing the whole class. There is speculating and there is being prepared, changing the 2nd most expensive shipclass by such a margin 2 weeks before dominion hits is so ridicolous it was impossible to see coming. -
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Cold Burn
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:44:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:36:13
Originally by: Battle Tested so is CCP gonna reimburse me the 6 billion isk difference? I finally built one specifically for the new role and loved the looks of it....now you completely nerf it to be worthless again and on top of that are reducing build cost by 50% and expect us to praise you? anybody got a link to the new Star Trek Online game? I think it's time to leave EVE and find a new game.
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
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RedSplat
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:47:00 -
[606]
I'm voicing dissent with CCP with regard to game development, PR and doubting those responsible for this slice of hell play EVE.
Perhaps you should delete this post.
Originally by: CCP Mitnal
I don't sleep. I am always here. Watching. Waiting.
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Minmatar citizen4561451
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:48:00 -
[607]
Originally by: Battle Tested exactly.....EVE "was" a great game....on to a new one I suppose
who wouldve thought...an NC pilot bitter because his blob of supercaps wont be as powerful as they once were...
If this is all we had to do to get the NC to cancel their accounts, then I'm ALL for it.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:48:00 -
[608]
Originally by: Le Skunk You will also remember, however, CCP Zuluparks "proposed carrier nerf" which never hit the game due to massive whinage from capital pilots.
I'm still of the mind that the whole escapade was a massive CCP troll just to see what would happen. For this change however I can see logical argument fom both sides and its also hard to not feel sympathy for players who bought and trained all the high ranks level 5 skills needed to fly the current mothership.
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:49:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Cold Burn
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Another thing to add is the extend of planning and work that goes into building supercaps. Acquiring all the minerals compression, logistics etc etc is a weeks long process. When dominion hits all supercap production arrays are offlined, meaning the supercaps still in build terminated. This forced ppl to either start buildjobs early to have their ship get ready before dominion hits (weeks before dominion for supercarriers) or wait til after dominion without having sov4.
CCP must have known and expected this, they also must know about the many ppl now having supercaps in build unable to safe their money on this 180¦ change. Its a F.Off decision made by ccp that really stings. -
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Tillakna
Gallente Rim Collection RC Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:49:00 -
[610]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Hang on
You got a ship built because of what it was like ON THE TEST SERVER
The very same test server which is well known to be for the testing of POSSIBLE new game features
You looked at the thread outlining the changes which was PLASTERED WITH DISCLAIMERS SAYING PROPOSED CHANGES WERE NOT FINAL
So you speculated, and lost out. Bad luck. Markets go down as well as up.
Now you are going to play star trek online (tee hee) because some more non final changes have been announced.
This is what you are telling us? And we should be upset to see you leave because?
SKUNK
You speak without clear insight of the depth of the situation and how it came about.
The sudden change was unwarranted after CCP explained the intended roles and had the proposed changes on Sisi for weeks with direct feedback with CCP on site in the Test server.
We asked CCP and worked around what they proposed, then came the rapidfire changes and no communication (as of yet).
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TZeer
BURN EDEN
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:50:00 -
[611]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Hey,
The changes on Singularity now, are intentional. The drone control units are however broken at the moment, and are being fixed.
New stats for "Compact Citadel Torpedoes" (launched by fighter bombers):
Explosion Radius: 3500 Explosion Velocity: 45 Damage Reduction Factor: 6.5 (magic number) Damage: 3600
Super carrier build cost, reduced by 40%. Estimated build cost around 5-6bn.
What we want to create is an anti-capital ship/role, which is more effective than dreadnaughts against moving targets. They can currently reach 7200 DPS (9000 DPS on the Nyx), provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots. To put this into perspective, the old motherships used to deal 2000 DPS, 2500 DPS (3125 DPS on the Nyx) with drone control units, additionally they've received a huge hit-point boost. The main advantages everyone seems to be overlooking is that Super carriers don't need to commit to a battle like Dreadnaughts nor do they have to be stationary while dealing damage, and of course the fact that they're immune to Electronic Warfare.
By fitting drone control units, pilots are increasing their damage potential greatly while sacrificing survivability. It becomes a hard choice, but being capital ships, they should reach their maximum potential when working together as a team.
There is currently a devblog in the making which should clarify the big picture a bit.
-Nozh
Reading this it makes me think...
Specially on this part:
Quote: Explosion Radius: 3500
and this
Quote: provided they are fitted for damage and are being supported by fellow pilots.
What do you mean? Targetpainters?
Isnt that a EW module? And what happens with EW modules and remote sensorboosters when you put your carrier in triage or dread in siege?
Thats correct!!
You cant remote rep, remote boost or use EW on them, if I`m not greatly mistaken.
So your ship that you are calling a capital killer, will only deal about 50% of that DPS when attacking dreads in siege. Wich is where you will find dreads most of the time. Great one CCP!
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Thesiuss
Oberon Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:51:00 -
[612]
Wow amazing.
I sold my nyx several months ago and recently sold the pilot, and I see now I'm better for it.
I feel so sorry for this hammer that's about to hit all the MS pilots. But with the drop in the build cost as stated before the MS will truely be the new BS for fleets. You'll defaintly have ALOT more MS flying about therefor negating any reduction in lag with the nerf to the number of fighters that can be controlled.
It all just seems poorly thought out and rushed. It may be best to delay the new patch to more fully explore the implitcations of these changes.
Just my 2 cents.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:51:00 -
[613]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:52:06 Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 00:51:07
Originally by: Cold Burn
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Quote: CCP Abathurs first post:
Please use this thread to discuss all things Supercarrier related. Bear in mind that the numbers on the test server are subject to (and probably will) change more than once in the coming weeks.
It clearly states numbers MAY CHANGE from what is on the test server. In fact it says they PROBABLY WILL change. In fact it even goes further to say they probably will change MORE THEN ONCE.
How more explicit can they get? If you took a gamble and lost, bad luck. Be more prudent in future.
Quote:
We wanted to get this information out sooner rather than later to ensure time for proper feedback and balancing.
I do fail to see however that if they felt the need to put the information out three months early to ensure proper testing, feedback and balacing - why they now suddenly only need two weeks to achieve the proper testing, feedback and balancing for the new setups
SKUNK (o)
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Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:53:00 -
[614]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists
Originally by: Cold Burn
The Dev Blog
That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Another thing to add is the extend of planning and work that goes into building supercaps. Acquiring all the minerals compression, logistics etc etc is a weeks long process. When dominion hits all supercap production arrays are offlined, meaning the supercaps still in build terminated. This forced ppl to either start buildjobs early to have their ship get ready before dominion hits (weeks before dominion for supercarriers) or wait til after dominion without having sov4.
CCP must have known and expected this, they also must know about the many ppl now having supercaps in build unable to safe their money on this 180¦ change. Its a F.Off decision made by ccp that really stings.
exactly, they stated in stone "THIS IS THE NEW MOTHERSHIP CHANGES" not this is a test to see if we like it. they told us that this is the new mothership and even changed it's name to supercarrier, posted all specs, took praise from the community and then turned around and slapped us in the face. |
Tappits
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:53:00 -
[615]
Originally by: Cold Burn That was two months ago. They described changes that are no where close to what they've put in place. I don't think it's unreasonable, after two months of no further changes, to see something and expect not to see a ridiculous, huge change in cost. People have made plans based on what they've seen not only show up on the test server, but stay there for two months, through an entire weekend designed to test it?
Plastered with disclaimers? I don't see much in the way of disclaimers in that blog post. Maybe some sideways hints, but there isn't even the traditional 'As always, these changes are not final' at the end of the post.
If they had come in from the beginning and said 'hey, your losing half your drones, and the ships are getting cheaper' then I don't think you'd see nearly the outcry that letting people build the ships has generated, and then turning around and simply stealing half the value from them.
Theres makeing tweeks to how things work and stuff but to totaly change a ship when there was no need is what people are mad at Thay had a working ship the changes thay had allready made were fine other than maybe a tweek here or there but to half the price of the ship + half its DPS and make it 100% easyer to kill of its DPS is just madness (yes this is sparta) I think you might be a bit mad if you had just lost bill's in isk and loads of wasted time as well.
or maybe you think your time is worthless? if you do then i will give you a job no prob.
---------------------------------------------- Pro BOB????? I fail At forums |
Tillakna
Gallente Rim Collection RC Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:55:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Le Skunk
I do fail to see however that if they felt the need to put the information out three months early to ensure proper testing, feedback and balacing - why they now suddenly only need two weeks to achieve the proper testing, feedback and balancing for the new setups
SKUNK
Exactly
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Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:57:00 -
[617]
Base cost of a Nyx is 15.8b.
Base insurance will pay out 6.32b.
I'm sure if the current changes are still what CCP wish to go with the day before Dominion, I won't be the only one considering self-destructing.
Not a whine from me, if that's the way they want SC to be, then their use will drop to nil.
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:02:00 -
[618]
ill make it easy for you guys to understand.
these changes cause a loss of fighterbomber DPS against virtually all situations in which capitals will be used, and a 50% drop in supercarrier DPS when using non-fighterbomber drones.
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:05:00 -
[619]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 01:06:37
Originally by: Battle Tested
exactly, they stated in stone "THIS IS THE NEW MOTHERSHIP CHANGES" not this is a test to see if we like it. they told us that this is the new mothership and even changed it's name to supercarrier, posted all specs, took praise from the community and then turned around and slapped us in the face.
This is what is written in that blog
Quote:
Motherships no more...
Perhaps no ships in EVE symbolize the majesty of the game more than the Nyx, Wyvern, Aeon and Hel. Featured in dozens of player-made movies, official trailers and screenshots, it is a sad testimony that their presence has not been a factor on the capital battlefields of EVE for quite some time. The simple fact is that this class of ship now stays mostly parked on trained alts and is rarely used as they are nothing more than expensive targets for hungry legions of Dread pilots.
No more.
Motherships are being reclassified as Supercarriers. The name of æMothership' has long caused confusion as to what the intended role of these ships was supposed to be but we are finally putting that to rest. This refocusing will see these ships go through a few changes. Gone will be:
+ The ability for Supercarriers to fit Triage modules.
+ The ability for Supercarriers to fit Clone Vat Bays.
+ The ability for Supercarriers to fit one additional Warfare Link per level.
One side effect of this change is that the build cost for Supercarriers will go down slightly as they will no longer require the Capital Clone Vat Bay components.
What are they getting? In addition to receiving their own hit point boost, Supercarriers are going to get new teeth in the form of the deadly new Fighter Bombers they can launch. Fighter Bombers have exactly one purpose: to destroy capital ships and look very cool while doing so. Here is the Gallente version:
Fighter Bombers will be unique to the Supercarrier class, launching specialized torpedoes capable of inflicting immense damage against other capital ships. We are still looking at a few other ideas that will help Supercarriers do their jobs more effectively and you may see those popping up on SiSi in the coming weeks.
One more thing - the Hel is getting rid of its current repair bonuses and trading them in for bonuses that enhance the endurance of its Fighters and Fighter Bombers. I guess the Flight Deck Chiefs on Hels like duct taping spare bits of armor onto their strike craft or something...
Where does this contradict the MOM in its new proposed state?
Hit point boost, Fighter Bomber capability, No more triage/clone bay, drop in build price (albeit erroneously quantified as "slightly"). Its all there
SKUNK
(o)
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Rexthor Hammerfists
Rage of Inferno Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:17:00 -
[620]
If the by nozh posted changes go through im likely selfdestructing my sc, banking 6b and using achimera and phoenix instead - not to mention subcaps.. -
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Dramaticus
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:19:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists If the by nozh posted changes go through im likely selfdestructing my sc, banking 6b and using achimera and phoenix instead - not to mention subcaps..
phoenixes are also currently getting ****ed in the ass fyi
Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan |
Silver Wizard
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:23:00 -
[622]
Seriously, what the ****?!
I have a character that has trained NOTHING but skills related to a NYX since creation(2005). In a game that uses REAL TIME for skill training you guys need to seriously consider how much of peoples real time you are throwing away with such changes.
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Trent Nichols
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:25:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Le Skunk
It clearly states numbers MAY CHANGE from what is on the test server. In fact it says they PROBABLY WILL change. In fact it even goes further to say they probably will change MORE THEN ONCE.
How more explicit can they get? If you took a gamble and lost, bad luck. Be more prudent in future.
SKUNK
Generally, when a product is universally well received during testing, you can expect the final product to be released as it was tested.
Colonies and Capitals |
Tillakna
Gallente Rim Collection RC Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:28:00 -
[624]
Originally by: Silver Wizard Seriously, what the ****?!
I have a character that has trained NOTHING but skills related to a NYX since creation(2005). In a game that uses REAL TIME for skill training you guys need to seriously consider how much of peoples real time you are throwing away with such changes.
Yep, same here. have a supercarrier (mothership) alt just to fly a Nyx... now I'll just sell it off or even biomass it out of disgust and cancel that account subscription.
The change is just bad for both sides in my view; less happy paying customers, less income for CCP.
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Mhorbaine
Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:33:00 -
[625]
Originally by: "Nyx Spire"
the difference here is phenomenal
one go into each mother ship file, delete description lines "3 fighters per lvl" change to 1 fighter per lvl, then go further down in file find drone control bandwidth line adjust lower. further down in file find class skill lines of code that relates to description and adjust them to 1 extra drone per lvl. make sure no misstacks and save
VS
go into each fighter bomber file scroll down to drone band width and delete push number 62.5 and save
leave drone bandwidth at 625 so 25 fighters can be fielded but up FB bandwidth to 62 so only ten can be fielded.
now pay me my weekly wage so you can get your subscriptions back from all the people that just cancelled
just cross posting this from the other thread as it smacks of winsauce
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Terracian SHcorp
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:34:00 -
[626]
And it wont be just the MS acct, because you know that person has more than one acct of course, so 2 or 3 or 6 accts per person maybe, and then it will be too late for CCP to say" Opps, were sry, we didnt mean to do that" , because we will all be playing something else....
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Aurelius Valentius
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:44:00 -
[627]
I recently checked this thread out, then I went on SiSi and then I came back here...what is the big deal?
The new mothership or supercarrier is fine... it has alot of EHP, it's big and slow and impressive as it goes by, and it's got a great jump engine (now it can even go in High-Sec and use Jump-Gates!) and it can hold tones of ships... so it's slots got nerfed, so it's drones got nerfed, so it's many other things got nerfed... I like it, so... like me, Fly the "New Mother(F)Ships" they are even easier to train to and come in a couple of paint schemes:
The New Amarr Super-Carrier-Ark... Get one now, only 55B and rising, I love mine, you will too... just wait til they see you coming in null sec!!!
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Oslo
Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:46:00 -
[628]
Perfect.... Saved up for a MOM and finally bought one 4 months ago and now its going to be completely useless plus I can't sell it to start saving for something better like the next MOMs or a Titan. Excellent work CCP... let me tell you, I'm feeling so excited to pay my next subscription for my multiple accounts. Congrats on failing at customer satisfaction!!!!!!!!
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Sallah Rallah
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:52:00 -
[629]
I do wonder who stands to benefit from this; if it was to be not the end result. Is it possible someone will buy up supercaps as the fire-sales ensue following the disgust and lack of official comments or responses? Could someone feeling confident in knowing that the nerfs life span is not long to live and end up with a few supercaps for cheap just before dominion? Who could do such a thing I wonder...
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GB Immensea
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.11.13 01:57:00 -
[630]
Originally by: Aurelius Valentius I recently checked this thread out, then I went on SiSi and then I came back here...what is the big deal?
The new mothership or supercarrier is fine... it has alot of EHP, it's big and slow and impressive as it goes by, and it's got a great jump engine (now it can even go in High-Sec and use Jump-Gates!) and it can hold tones of ships... so it's slots got nerfed, so it's drones got nerfed, so it's many other things got nerfed... I like it, so... like me, Fly the "New Mother(F)Ships" they are even easier to train to and come in a couple of paint schemes:
The New Amarr Super-Carrier-Ark... Get one now, only 55B and rising, I love mine, you will too... just wait til they see you coming in null sec!!!
I lol'd
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