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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.12 10:17:00 -
[1]
Yep.. as with millions of eve-o ships.. another one has been lost to the damn agro timers that don't show up.
I hear that if your ship wreck is salvaged your agro timer resets, yet there is no timer.. no yellow ticker saying "you are flagged.. don't undock" nothing.. and there is no warning to it.. not a blip.
Fix this ****. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 10:34:00 -
[2]
Never heard of the ship wreck one, but I know docking resets the aggro. People new to piracy in my corp get very annoyed lol.
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Sokratesz
Rionnag Alba Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.12 10:47:00 -
[3]
..and the fact that the actual aggro timer isn't 15, but 20 minutes that you can't see..
A clearer display of the timers would def. improve the game - the session change countdown was a good improvement but there's a long way to go.
Don't know who to vote for? Find out with CSM matchmaker!
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:14:00 -
[4]
Agreed. This should be a top priority.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:16:00 -
[5]
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:19:00 -
[6]
I agree it's dumb...
also looks like we are talking about 2 different issues... one being the can flag extending aggression TO you, the other being the generally crappy life of agression as a pirate
The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments |
Eben Rochelle
Gallente RPS holdings
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:21:00 -
[7]
Totaly signed. Got suprised sex'd by this the other day (I completely forgot about the existance of them until i undocked in a hauler full of CAP mods *facepalm*)
It really is ancient this one, come on CCP sort it out eh?
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Veilag
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:21:00 -
[8]
Do whatever you like, make it longer, make it so you cant dock or whatever, but it needs to be able to be seen.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:23:00 -
[9]
I TALKED TO CCP ABOUT THIS
Their response (paraphrased) was:
Any time you enter the sight of legal sentry fire, you receive an aggression timer for 15 minutes against the corporation they are guarding, even if they do not fire.
Example: You take Global and wait in a safe spot for 7 minutes. You warp to a station and dock without being shot by sentries when you have 6 minutes 30 seconds left on the timer.
Your timer is then extended for 15 minutes to whatever station you dock at, even though no timer is showing. That leaves you with 6 minutes 30 seconds left of global but you still have 15 minutes against the station. When your global disappears you will have 8 minutes 30 seconds left on your silent aggression. And it is just an aggression countdown, not a GCC.
Just an FYI, guys.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I TALKED TO CCP ABOUT THIS
Their response (paraphrased) was:
Any time you enter the sight of legal sentry fire, you receive an aggression timer for 15 minutes against the corporation they are guarding, even if they do not fire.
Example: You take Global and wait in a safe spot for 7 minutes. You warp to a station and dock without being shot by sentries when you have 6 minutes 30 seconds left on the timer.
Your timer is then extended for 15 minutes to whatever station you dock at, even though no timer is showing. That leaves you with 6 minutes 30 seconds left of global but you still have 15 minutes against the station. When your global disappears you will have 8 minutes 30 seconds left on your silent aggression. And it is just an aggression countdown, not a GCC.
Just an FYI, guys.
This makes no sense, considering when you dock then undock with GCC your GCC aggro timer (the red one), not your entity aggro timer (the yellow one) resets to fifteen minutes.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
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Plim
Gallente Kobayashi Maru Experience
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Posted - 2009.11.12 11:32:00 -
[11]
Someone made a reasonable post on the EVE-O forums and people didn't respond with flames?
Am I on a keylogging website?
---- Me - Plim Character. You - Non-Plim Character. |
The Riddik
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Posted - 2009.11.12 12:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
sorry, no sympathy for you. what your doing is pretty lame.
maybe, suck it up and try to be a man and stay in space till your aggo is over instead of trying to avoid the whole aggro mess.
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Elukka
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:10:00 -
[13]
"Suck it up" is not a good answer to bugs or oversights in the game.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:16:00 -
[14]
Originally by: The Riddik
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
sorry, no sympathy for you. what your doing is pretty lame.
maybe, suck it up and try to be a man and stay in space till your aggo is over instead of trying to avoid the whole aggro mess.
What if you have a bad case of the bio break shuffle?
Are you expected to man up and 'suffer the consequences'?
The quality of my replies is directly related to the QQuality of the opÆs comments |
TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:19:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Lady Spank What if you have a bad case of the bio break shuffle?
Are you expected to man up and 'suffer the consequences'?
**** in the pint glass on the desk!
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5pinDizzy
Amarr State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:27:00 -
[16]
Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 12/11/2009 13:31:34 Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 12/11/2009 13:30:21
Originally by: Plim Someone made a reasonable post on the EVE-O forums and people didn't respond with flames?
Am I on a keylogging website?
lol I was thinking the same thing.
Agreed with the OP but was expecting "adapt or die" etc...
I don't particularly care about another timer, aggro for me can just be some red flashy bar that once disapears means you can redock or whatever.
I've had friends who's aggro has run out only to undock and get blasted into atoms by the station sentries, happened to me aswell but I only lost a cheap ship so was lucky.
For me though, where aggro is concerned, neutral RR ships takes some form of absolute top priority, if CCP fix this I could pretty much live with a lot of other 'problems'.
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Rordan D'Kherr
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.12 13:45:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rordan D''Kherr on 12/11/2009 13:45:54
Originally by: Tista Yep.. as with millions of eve-o ships.. another one has been lost to the damn agro timers that don't show up.
I hear that if your ship wreck is salvaged your agro timer resets, yet there is no timer.. no yellow ticker saying "you are flagged.. don't undock" nothing.. and there is no warning to it.. not a blip.
Fix this ****.
You seem to know about this feature. You still lose ships because of this feature. You make a GD topic about it - but this won't affect your personal learning curve.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:06:00 -
[18]
Yep, GM standard response to my complaint was "It's game mechanics, when you log out your GCC timer is reset, It's all explained in eve-wiki" Though, I'm playing the game.. not eve-wiki-online.. shouldn't this sort of thing be included in the game mechanics.. like maybe SHOWING the ****ing timer when you play the game?
I'd like to point out that I'm not on eve wiki, looking up rules on agro timers when i log out.. because I, the paying customer to this company expect this sort of thing to not happen, as do we all... Rather than CCP getting all these bloody new expansions.. prehaps they should STOPPPPP sit down, rehire all their GMs to be reasonable rather than throwing pointless mumbo about websites outside of the game, and start fixing the god damn issues that already exist.
-------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:10:00 -
[19]
LOL
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer I could go for some doritos now, damn you Spank
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Daplat Mode
Mountain Militia
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:26:00 -
[20]
Hi, I may be able to help you. 1. Download and install test server so your not actually losing isk. 2. Test the mechanic that is troubling you. 3. Learn that Sentries seem to automatically reset a "hidden" 15min timer whenever you come within 150k of whatever it may be that they are guarding AND you have aggro/GCC. 4. ?????? 5. Stop whining on the forums/profit.
This may be a bug, or may be some sort of hidden mechanic but the bottom line is its not difficult to figure out how it works.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.12 17:54:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Tista on 12/11/2009 17:54:45
Originally by: Daplat Mode Hi, I may be able to help you. 1. Download and install test server so your not actually losing isk. 2. Test the mechanic that is troubling you. 3. Learn that Sentries seem to automatically reset a "hidden" 15min timer whenever you come within 150k of whatever it may be that they are guarding AND you have aggro/GCC. 4. ?????? 5. Stop whining on the forums/profit.
This may be a bug, or may be some sort of hidden mechanic but the bottom line is its not difficult to figure out how it works.
Just for you, I will explain in detail the situation.
I undocked at 09:40:00 In a hurricane In Jita. I engaged a target at 09:41:00. The hurricane then exploded at 09:41:00. I then redocked at 09:42:00. I bought a sleipnir. I Armed the sleipnir. I restarted my game to setup the graphics to view the ship in high detail at 09:52:00. I then went to do some thing around the house. I logged back in at 10:05:00 -Note there was no agro timer, no GC timer, no indication that i was flagged. I fiddled around with things then undocked from the same station In the sleipnir at 10:09:00 The Sleipnir was then taken out by concord at 10:09:00.
There was an entire 28 minute window between the inicial agro timer and the 2nd ship being popped by concord with no active timer showing on screen.
That, combined with the fact that this game runs on real time* would lead someone to believe that he/she would undock without a problem.
* If I log off my skills remain to train whether I'm playing the game or not, The agro timer is therefore assumed to work in the same manor, combined with the fact that the timer was not showing leads me to believe I'm in the right in requesting;
A. A change in the system to better all of the players in eve. B. A reimbursment of my ship.
-------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Eamiela
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:27:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tista
Just for you, I will explain in detail the situation.
I undocked at 09:40:00 In a hurricane In Jita. I engaged a target at 09:41:00. The hurricane then exploded at 09:41:00. I then redocked at 09:42:00. I bought a sleipnir. I Armed the sleipnir. I restarted my game to setup the graphics to view the ship in high detail at 09:52:00. I then went to do some thing around the house. I logged back in at 10:05:00 -Note there was no agro timer, no GC timer, no indication that i was flagged. I fiddled around with things then undocked from the same station In the sleipnir at 10:09:00 The Sleipnir was then taken out by concord at 10:09:00.
There was an entire 28 minute window between the inicial agro timer and the 2nd ship being popped by concord with no active timer showing on screen.
That, combined with the fact that this game runs on real time* would lead someone to believe that he/she would undock without a problem.
* If I log off my skills remain to train whether I'm playing the game or not, The agro timer is therefore assumed to work in the same manor, combined with the fact that the timer was not showing leads me to believe I'm in the right in requesting;
A. A change in the system to better all of the players in eve. B. A reimbursment of my ship.
Question: how did you gain your GCC? And what were you doing in a 1.0 sec system with a GCC?
If you gained your GCC through actions in Jita (e.g. attacking the hurricane?) you should lose your ship to concord, shouldn't you?
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.12 18:47:00 -
[23]
edited for clarity. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Arec Bardwin
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:00:00 -
[24]
I'm gonna support op with the following statement:
TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
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Sellmewarez
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Sokratesz ..and the fact that the actual aggro timer isn't 15, but 20 minutes that you can't see..
A clearer display of the timers would def. improve the game - the session change countdown was a good improvement but there's a long way to go.
Agreeing with this.
Apart from loggoffskis. Once somebody does the CTRL-Q make sure it keeps their ship in the same place in space for 1 minute and if they recieve aggro from something not NPC, start another 15/20 minute timer.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: The Riddik
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
sorry, no sympathy for you. what your doing is pretty lame.
maybe, suck it up and try to be a man and stay in space till your aggo is over instead of trying to avoid the whole aggro mess.
how is staying in space "sucking it up" exactly? What if I don't want to float around in space? What if i want to refit my ship? Your post makes no sense.
We're not whining about the actual aggression,
IT'D JUST BE NICE TO KNOW WHEN WE HAVE IT
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:18:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin I'm gonna support op with the following statement:
TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
Agreed. ALL timers need to be easily visable. If you have any aggression timer (from any person, any NPC or PC corporation, concord, global, etc) it should show up in the upper left with the correct time.
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Jarna
Amarr Angelus Degeneris
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:28:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Daplat Mode Hi, I may be able to help you. 1. Download and install test server so your not actually losing isk. 2. Test the mechanic that is troubling you. 3. Learn that Sentries seem to automatically reset a "hidden" 15min timer whenever you come within 150k of whatever it may be that they are guarding AND you have aggro/GCC. 4. ?????? 5. Stop whining on the forums/profit.
This may be a bug, or may be some sort of hidden mechanic but the bottom line is its not difficult to figure out how it works.
Yeah, because it's the customer's job to figure all this out?
In just about any other piece of software this "solution" would be frowned upon. Why is it ok with Eve?
So many CCP suckups in this place it's fricken unreal. ------------------------------
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mechtech
Entropy Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:35:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin I'm gonna support op with the following statement:
TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
I agree with this, all timers should be visible, period. No confusing mechanics to **** people off.
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Vitelius
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.12 19:47:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin I'm gonna support op with the following statement:
TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
Agreed. Lost ships because CCP does not seem it fit to let us know when we've done something bad. Please, PLEASE show us the aggression timers and IF THEY RESET BECAUSE OF SOMETHING YOU DO, SHOW THE PROPER NUMBERS ON SCREEN! Can't be that hard! Can't blame the player when there are no visible indicators.
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Aluin Chaput
Caldari Mort's Navy
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:11:00 -
[31]
I am not going to support the OP cause this thread needs to be locked IMHO. The OP is ranting cause he lost his ship. Yes, visible timers would be nice. However, the thread spam ect on his part nullifies his argument.
I lost two Ravens to Pirates. I don't go crying to CCP about it and CCP never told me "Psst, pirates at that gate."
Lets make the game single player so we can never lose our ships to bad guys. It will be called Hello Kitty online and it will make a lot of cash for the Devs.
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Feilamya
Pelennor Swarm THE KLINGONS
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:12:00 -
[32]
Last time I checked, the hidden aggro timers still worked. Both of them. They are in no need of fixing tbh.
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Woodwraith
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:14:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Aluin Chaput I am not going to support the OP cause this thread needs to be locked IMHO. The OP is ranting cause he lost his ship. Yes, visible timers would be nice. However, the thread spam ect on his part nullifies his argument.
I lost two Ravens to Pirates. I don't go crying to CCP about it and CCP never told me "Psst, pirates at that gate."
Lets make the game single player so we can never lose our ships to bad guys. It will be called Hello Kitty online and it will make a lot of cash for the Devs.
2/10 - Cry about all the ravens you want, ccp did tell you there were pirates at the gates, you got a pop-up box warning you the first time you went into low sec. Loosing a ship to another players intervention is fine, loosing a ship because the game simply doesnt work as advertised or intended, is bullpucky |
Liz Laser
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:44:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin I'm gonna support op with the following statement:
TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
This.
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Mutnin
Veto. Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.12 20:53:00 -
[35]
I lost a perfectly good Impairor-class frigate to this none sense the other day. I was very distraught over the loss of my fine ship and my complimentary piece of Tritanium as I worked very hard to earn it.
+1 to this cause, CCP really needs to fix these hidden timers.
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Blazing Lunatic
Gallente Tres Hombres Psychiatric Hospital Uno Chica Loco
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:35:00 -
[36]
Hmm I've played this game since release and never had a need to see an agro timer...
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Jolla Skyia
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Posted - 2009.11.12 21:52:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Blazing Lunatic Hmm I've played this game since release and never had a need to see an agro timer...
Mining in Empire does have it's advantages I must agree..
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:01:00 -
[38]
I guess I'm just old school, back from the days when you didn't get timers of any sort. You were expected to figure out how long you had to lay low and look at a clock.
Good trolling though. Especially the bit about expecting the timer to continue running out even though you had logged off. Nice, subtle, touch there.
To those taking this thread seriously while it wouldn't hurt to make the code more robust in the case of aggro timers (combined with logging off) it certainly is not something that he should get his ship reimbursed for.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Caylle
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:04:00 -
[39]
EFFING SIGNED! I will trade you the upcoming expansion for a visible aggression timer. While your working on that, you can add countdown text for the session timer without having to hover over that little ball thing.
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Daplat Mode
Mountain Militia
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Posted - 2009.11.12 22:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Jarna
Yeah, because it's the customer's job to figure all this out?
In just about any other piece of software this "solution" would be frowned upon. Why is it ok with Eve?
So many CCP suckups in this place it's fricken unreal.
Hi Jarna, please be constructive or stfu. This is not an attempt to "suck up" to CCP, it is clearly posted to help those that want help, or to **** off the morons (you) that don't understand the fact that not everything in this game is handed to them on a silver platter, because we all know that EVE is made to be cold and harsh. If you have a such a bad problem with CCP's product, please realize that you have every right in the world to simply stop using the product. (just make sure to contract all your sh*t to me first)
Have a nice day.
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Woodwraith
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2009.11.12 23:19:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Daplat Mode
Originally by: Jarna
Yeah, because it's the customer's job to figure all this out?
In just about any other piece of software this "solution" would be frowned upon. Why is it ok with Eve?
So many CCP suckups in this place it's fricken unreal.
Hi Jarna, please be agree with me or stfu. This is not an attempt to "suck up" to CCP, it is clearly posted to help those that want help, or to **** off the morons (you) that don't understand the fact that not everything in this game is handed to them on a silver platter, because we all know that EVE is made to be cold and harsh. If you have a such a bad problem with CCP's product, please realize that you have every right in the world to simply stop using the product. (just make sure to contract all your sh*t to me first)
Have a nice day.
ITT carebears and tools come out into the light.
the fact that ccp doesnt finish **** shouldnt be given a pass, and its not an all or nothing proposition. The game can still be worth playing and paying for, not unlike the way you can be a decent human being despite your post showing you to be a tool. |
Nexus Wolfguard
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Posted - 2009.11.13 00:19:00 -
[42]
I support the above topic message.
+1
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lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.11.13 12:39:00 -
[43]
@Woodwraith: logged in just to tell you that you queued it but never actually trained Reading Comprehension I, as demonstrated by your posts
Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:12:00 -
[44]
I remember my first PvP experience ever. I shot at some guy who was looting my cans in a complex in high-sec. There was no can flagging at the time, and I knew I was going to die, but I was ****ed and I took my chances. I didn't get a kill, and CONCORD had their way with me... but it felt good.
I docked, refit a ship and undocked, totally unaware of the aggression timer. Then I was popped by sentries. "Okay so that's what the red text at the top of the screen means..." I thought. I docked again, refit a ship and waited for the aggression countdown to be completely gone, then waited an additional 15 minutes since that's what the guys in my noob corp told me. Undocked... popped by sentries again.
That was four years ago. Oh CCP.. the jokes on us, isn't it?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Cheer Up
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Posted - 2009.11.13 13:39:00 -
[45]
THAIMRZ NED 2 BEE IZILY VISABLL
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Warn1nG Soul
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:03:00 -
[46]
fix this ****.
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Rameus Luxmaar
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2009.11.13 15:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Arec Bardwin I'm gonna support op with the following statement: TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
/rant on
CPP fix it for the love of all thats holy. We have b*tched about this issue long enough. Stop having us waste ccp customer service time fielding petitions and complaints about this and add a visible timer for this issue.
Unless there is some sort of technical or programming reason as to why this cant happen stop sending us all the excuse of "workings as intended" or "this is oulined in the wiki" or "you should read up on game mechanics".
Its a simple addition to the game that has no logical reason as to why its not visible or present in the first place.
/rant off
Immortalis Inc. is recruiting PvP pilots! http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1172091 Public Channel: Shadow Cartel Public |
NeoShocker
Caldari Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 16:54:00 -
[48]
Edited by: NeoShocker on 13/11/2009 16:54:53 Agreed. This "hidden" aggro timer is really frustrated and needs to be looked into. Global criminal count down, dock, wait 18+ minutes, and still get shot at. Concord or local police because each time I say to myself, "How ****ing long I need to wait?" ----------------------------------- Peace through power! |
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:10:00 -
[49]
We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you. ------------------
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:22:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Tista on 13/11/2009 18:25:54
Originally by: CCP Gangleri We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you.
If this is the case, is the petition for a reimbursment still viable?
Originally by: Caldrion Dosto
Originally by: CCP Gangleri We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you.
This guy is correct... absolutley and I can't be bothered to explain it again for you CCP, if you played the game you would understand that there are agro timers that DONT show up on screen. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Caldrion Dosto
ANZAC ALLIANCE IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.13 18:23:00 -
[51]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you.
Well i think you need to read again.
Hidden = Not Visible
Thus there are hidden aggro timers since no one can see them.
Make the yellow clock start to tick as it does in lowsec.
(yes i know a "shocking" suggestion...
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:19:00 -
[52]
There seems to be some confusion around this topic, so I'm going to try to clear some things up by giving you a step by step explanation like the one I am asking for.
1. Pilot A is in a 0.3 system and commits a crime against Pilot B out of sight of sentry guns * This will trigger a GCF, global criminal flag, which lasts for 15 minutes 2. A warps to a planet and waits for 5 minutes * There are now 10 minutes left of the GCF 3. A warps to a station and docks * Because the GCF is still active the sentry guns on the station will consider A a target and attack, this starts another 15 minute NPC aggression timer 4. A waits for 10 minutes so the GCF has run out, then undocks * The NPC timer still has 5 minutes left on it * Because the NPC timer against the station owner is still active the sentry guns will attack A and the timer reset back to 15 minutes * This does not start another GCF 5. A warps to a gate * Unless the gate and station are owned by the same NPC entity the gate sentry guns will not consider A a valid target
This scenario is not likely to ever happen in game (who would wait at a planet for 5 minutes) but it describes my understanding of the basics of the aggression counters. None of the counters I mention should be 'hidden' the GCF is red and the NPC ones are yellow, but it seems a lot of people do not realize that yellow counters will cause sentry guns owned by that entity to engage you. You can easily see the individual breakdown of the timers by mousing over them.
What I am looking for is a similar step by step process that will cause 'hidden' timers. ------------------
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:20:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Bfoster on 13/11/2009 21:25:12 Edited by: Bfoster on 13/11/2009 21:20:58
Originally by: CCP Gangleri We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you.
You can't be serious!
This has been a issue with GCC for YEARS!!! Like said above. Dock WITH GCC at a station(not getting shot by the station sentry guns), LET YOUR GCC RUN OUT(While in station).(Within 15min of docking)Undock from station and you WILL get blasted by station sentry guns!!! ------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:25:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bfoster
You can't be serious!
This has been a issue with GCC for YEARS!!! Like said above. Dock WITH GCC at a station(not getting shot by the station sentry guns), LET YOUR GCC RUN OUT(While in station). Undock from station and you WILL get blasted by station sentry guns!!!
Note that even if the sentries don't shoot you as you dock they may still start a timer, so even if the GCF has run out you will still have the yellow NPC countdown since it started later than the GCF. ------------------
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:27:00 -
[55]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Bfoster
You can't be serious!
This has been a issue with GCC for YEARS!!! Like said above. Dock WITH GCC at a station(not getting shot by the station sentry guns), LET YOUR GCC RUN OUT(While in station). Undock from station and you WILL get blasted by station sentry guns!!!
Note that even if the sentries don't shoot you as you dock they may still start a timer, so even if the GCF has run out you will still have the yellow NPC countdown since it started later than the GCF.
Exactly, but that timer is hidden. It will not show as a yellow timer.
The only time it doesn't create a hidden timer is if A) they actually shoot you B) you dock in a pod ------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Bfoster
Exactly, but that timer is hidden. It will not show as a yellow timer.
The only time it doesn't create a hidden timer is if A) they actually shoot you B) you dock in a pod
So if you dock fast enough the timer will start in the background but will not show in the client? Does the timer show once they start shooting you?
I'll try some more tomorrow but I have never been able to repro this in game, I would really appreciate if you could take some time to file a bug report including a logserver file and a screenshot of sentries shooting you without a timer. Put 'for CCP Gangleri' into the title to make sure it reaches me. ------------------
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RiotRick
Black-Sun Pitch Black Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:45:00 -
[57]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Bfoster
Exactly, but that timer is hidden. It will not show as a yellow timer.
The only time it doesn't create a hidden timer is if A) they actually shoot you B) you dock in a pod
So if you dock fast enough the timer will start in the background but will not show in the client? Does the timer show once they start shooting you?
This is exactly what happens. If you press the dock button from a remote location (so your ship will warp then dock). You dock before the sentries start shooting. The red timer will keep counting down, and disapear when it's finished. No yellow counter appears, but you will get shot by the sentries if you undock. -- The future is black.
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:51:00 -
[58]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Bfoster
Exactly, but that timer is hidden. It will not show as a yellow timer.
The only time it doesn't create a hidden timer is if A) they actually shoot you B) you dock in a pod
So if you dock fast enough the timer will start in the background but will not show in the client? Does the timer show once they start shooting you?
I'll try some more tomorrow but I have never been able to repro this in game, I would really appreciate if you could take some time to file a bug report including a logserver file and a screenshot of sentries shooting you without a timer. Put 'for CCP Gangleri' into the title to make sure it reaches me.
That is exactly right! If the sentrys start shooting you it starts the yellow aggro timer to the station. I will fraps it tonight if I can, a video would be the best description for you.
But the best thing to do is, get a global criminal, dock with it(do not let the station guns shoot you!), let the GCC run out, then undock shortly after the GCC runs out. You will start getting shot by the station guns. Then a yellow aggro timer to that stations corporation or faction will show up.
You get a invisible 15min timer to the station when you dock with GCC without getting shot!
------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |
Elendor Xanadaph
Amarr Redwind Trading Facility
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Posted - 2009.11.13 21:53:00 -
[59]
I can confirm that the above case is true, The yellow timer will not appear and the global timer will be gone. I have petitioned this and even the gm said it will not appear.
I am paraphrasing what I was told, but basically it was that Your onscreen timer countdown wont take into account events that cause the timer to get refreshed.
Then I was told I have to count a good 15 minutes in my head since I was last in sight of sentry guns
O.o
He also said it says this in the knowledge base.
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Spectre3353
Gallente The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:08:00 -
[60]
The most frustrating part about the sentry mechanics and the "hidden" timer issues seems to be that every few patches the behavior changes slightly around when you will still be shot and how long it takes gates/stations to react and begin firing when you appear within 150km with a timer. I don't care if there are punishments for aggression in empire space but please, please, please make them actually predictable, consistent and VISIBLE.
That being said, the situation that foster described above is exactly how it works. If you dock with a GCC and in a ship that isn't a pod, wait your GCC and timers out COMPLETELY and then undock, you will be blasted by sentry guns. To repeat, if you undock WITH NO TIMERS VISIBLE, YELLOW OR GCC, SENTRIES WILL STILL SHOOT YOU. Right now the only way I know to bypass this is to make sure you're not in your pod when your GCC ends or to simply undock in a pod. It would be so ****ing fantastic if this got fixed that I would probably break down and weep. -----
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Woodwraith
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:28:00 -
[61]
Originally by: lollerwaffle @Woodwraith: logged in just to tell you that you queued it but never actually trained Reading Comprehension I, as demonstrated by your posts
Quote the part of any one of my posts that isn't a direct response to someone's elses statement, I dare you. |
Dr Cron
Northern Lights Number 5 Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:37:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
Hmm.. lots of misinformation in this thread.
You dock with GCC and your station timer gets reset to 15 min.
Simple as that.
It would be easy to fix this obvious "display bug".
In fact a bunch of patch notes ago CCP claimed they fixed it. Nope.
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Dr Cron
Northern Lights Number 5 Hydroponic Zone
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:44:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Spectre3353 The most frustrating part about the sentry mechanics and the "hidden" timer issues seems to be that every few patches the behavior changes slightly around when you will still be shot and how long it takes gates/stations to react and begin firing when you appear within 150km with a timer. I don't care if there are punishments for aggression in empire space but please, please, please make them actually predictable, consistent and VISIBLE.
That being said, the situation that foster described above is exactly how it works. If you dock with a GCC and in a ship that isn't a pod, wait your GCC and timers out COMPLETELY and then undock, you will be blasted by sentry guns. To repeat, if you undock WITH NO TIMERS VISIBLE, YELLOW OR GCC, SENTRIES WILL STILL SHOOT YOU. Right now the only way I know to bypass this is to make sure you're not in your pod when your GCC ends or to simply undock in a pod. It would be so ****ing fantastic if this got fixed that I would probably break down and weep.
just make sure and wait 15 min after you dock to clear up the hidden timer.
CCP really could just make sure the timer is visible to clear this up. Unfortunately seeing as nooone at CCP plays the game any more, they surely aren't familiar with the details of GCC.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.13 22:47:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 22:55:54
The "Hidden Timer" complaint is as follows:
1) Player X in low sec shoots at a non outlaw in a belt 2) Player X triggers a 15 min GCC 3) Player X loots wreck, salvages wreck and warps to dock
AT THIS POINT HE HAS. -->A GCC timer OF 13 MINS (2 mins for looting fot the sake of argument)(displayed) -->A Player aggression timer to his recently killed target (irrelevant to this discussion but also displayed)
4) Player lands on station
5) STATION "SEES" THE GLOBAL CRIMINAL AND INITIATES FIRING PROCEDURE 6) Pilot is DOCKED before the sentrys can get a shot off
AT THIS POINT HE HAS ->> Global Criminal Timer of 12.5 mins (30 seconds assumed to warp to station) --> Player Aggression Timer to Player whom was killed in the belt
-->AND A NOT DISPLAYED, FIFTEEN MINUTE TIMER TO THE STATION CORPORATION: This is the hidden timer which will cause the later destruction of your ship.
If the station managed to get a shot off, then the correct 15 min timer is displayed. If it "saw" the pilot but the docking procedure was so rapid that no shots were fired, the same 15 min timer is triggered, but it is NOT displayed
END RESULT:
The end result is that 13 mins after docking, there are no aggression timers displayed to the player. Indeed the GCC and the killed player aggression has finished.
But there is STILL 150 seconds (in the above case) of aggession due from the station which is not displayed. The player then undocks in a interceptor and is one volleyed by the station and destroyed.
In addition the station timer is reset to 15 mins and is now correctly displayed.
Depending on the timings - there can be up to a 14 minute 59 second hidden timer from the station.
Hope this is of help
SKUNK
TLDR: Put simply, One suspects that the station aggression timer is triggered on sight, but the display of the timer is triggered on the first shot.
The docking procedure prevents the shot and so prevents the display of the timer, but not its actual triggering. (o)
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:10:00 -
[65]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you.
Pretty simple... if anything can shoot you, be it a player or an NPC sentry, then there should be a visible timer. Currently stations and gates will shoot you willy nilly 30 or more minutes after you've docked if you undock... but there's nothing saying they've got aggro toward you.
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Moordab Kersh
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:47:00 -
[66]
Timers should be visible, including the gate timers.
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Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:54:00 -
[67]
Kinda funny, but I remember when there were no timers visible at all and we just had to pay attention to the clock and hope we were right --------------------------------------------
Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.13 23:55:00 -
[68]
This could easily be fixed by removing concord and sentry guns
Originally by: Hamshoe
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:12:00 -
[69]
The GM is still arguing with me that the logs say this and that.
The logs.. show CCP what goes on in the background code running all the time eve is on, NOT what comes up on my screen, or anyone elses screen.
Which is the point I'm making.. these guys must be ******ed. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:19:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Tista on 14/11/2009 00:21:24
2009.11.12 09:41:00
Victim: Tista Corp: Gladiators of Rage Alliance: Wildly Inappropriate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Hurricane System: Jita Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 6755
Involved parties:
Name: Caldari Sentry Gun III / Caldari Navy Damage Done: 6755
Name: m4c3 (laid the final blow) Security: 0.1 Corp: Internal Anarchy Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Harbinger Weapon: Focused Medium Pulse Laser II Damage Done: 0
Name: CONCORD Police Captain / CONCORD Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I, Qty: 2 Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Dropped items:
Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
2009.11.12 10:09:00
Victim: Tista Corp: Gladiators of Rage Alliance: Wildly Inappropriate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Sleipnir System: Jita Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 26115
Involved parties:
Name: CONCORD Police Commander / CONCORD Damage Done: 24138
Name: Greening (laid the final blow) Security: -2.2 Corp: Tropical Killer Bananas Alliance: Privateer Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Damage Done: 1977
Destroyed items:
Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II, Qty: 2 Phased Plasma M, Qty: 70 Phased Plasma M, Qty: 22352 (Cargo) Medium Core Defence Field Extender I, Qty: 2 Hobgoblin I, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Large Shield Extender II, Qty: 2 425mm AutoCannon II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Dropped items:
Gyrostabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Phased Plasma M, Qty: 420 Small Tractor Beam I Ballistic Deflection Field I Large Shield Extender II 425mm AutoCannon II, Qty: 6
Not only is the counter bugged, but this guy got final blow on me without doing any damage... hmm. ANOTHER BUG
-------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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B Cassidy
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:31:00 -
[71]
Edited by: B Cassidy on 14/11/2009 00:32:44 Edited by: B Cassidy on 14/11/2009 00:31:23
Originally by: Tista 2009.11.12 09:41:00
Victim: Tista Corp: Gladiators of Rage Alliance: Wildly Inappropriate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Hurricane System: Jita Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 6755
Involved parties:
Name: Caldari Sentry Gun III / Caldari Navy Damage Done: 6755
Name: m4c3 (laid the final blow) Security: 0.1 Corp: Internal Anarchy Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Harbinger Weapon: Focused Medium Pulse Laser II Damage Done: 0
Name: CONCORD Police Captain / CONCORD Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I, Qty: 2 Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Dropped items:
Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
2009.11.12 10:09:00
Victim: Tista Corp: Gladiators of Rage Alliance: Wildly Inappropriate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Sleipnir System: Jita Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 26115
Involved parties:
Name: CONCORD Police Commander / CONCORD Damage Done: 24138
Name: Greening (laid the final blow) Security: -2.2 Corp: Tropical Killer Bananas Alliance: Privateer Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Damage Done: 1977
Destroyed items:
Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II, Qty: 2 Phased Plasma M, Qty: 70 Phased Plasma M, Qty: 22352 (Cargo) Medium Core Defence Field Extender I, Qty: 2 Hobgoblin I, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Large Shield Extender II, Qty: 2 425mm AutoCannon II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Dropped items:
Gyrostabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Phased Plasma M, Qty: 420 Small Tractor Beam I Ballistic Deflection Field I Large Shield Extender II 425mm AutoCannon II, Qty: 6
I noticed something while looking these KMs over..
CCP this particular situation isnt so much that there is hidden timers.. Though i will agree they are but for the sake of argument I wont even discuss that. My point is as follows.
The player Tista is in high sec and shoots another player. This normally results in Concord displaying its amazing skills at insta-popping a ship.. however.. if you view the KM for the Hurricane you will see that concord in fact does not lay the final blow..
No in fact.. the final blow is laid by another player!!!!
Name: m4c3 (laid the final blow) Security: 0.1 Corp: Internal Anarchy Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Harbinger Weapon: Focused Medium Pulse Laser II Damage Done: 0
He does no dmg yet picks up a nifty kill mail... now lets look at how well concord did its blue flashy job..
Name: CONCORD Police Captain / CONCORD Damage Done: 0
Seems to me they didn't do much of a job at all... >.>
So if the player didn't drop the dmg and neither did concord who did?
Name: Caldari Sentry Gun III / Caldari Navy Damage Done: 6755
our friendly neighborhood station sentries did.. not bad..
The question i have for you ccp is why this loss of a ship for some reason didn't result in Concord getting their jollies and knowing the job was completed as they then came after this same player who was in an entirely different ship.. >.> For bonus ill also point out that notice a second player is on this KM... meaning the GCC timer was still active wasn't it..
Name: CONCORD Police Commander / CONCORD Damage Done: 24138
Name: Greening (laid the final blow) Security: -2.2 Corp: Tropical Killer Bananas Alliance: Privateer Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Damage Done: 1977
So in short CCP we have a failure on concord part to get the kill the first time thus they seemed to go on and kill again.. then we have a failure to also display a GCC and allowing this player to be shot at by another player while concord came to finish the job.. So whats going on here??
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Demitria Fernir
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:45:00 -
[72]
Tested this out to rule out every timer that might get triggered while warping to the station.
I got a GCF, Immediately Warped at the station and docked.
After docking i waited 20:00 Minutes before undocking.
20 Minutes .
Sentries will still shoot at me, counter be rest to 15 minutes and nothing seems to have changed since i docked.
CCP fix this immediately
THIS is my main. |
Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.11.14 00:49:00 -
[73]
To you guys violating the rules by posting killmails... Anyone who gets on a concord killmail *gets* that killmail, and often are granted 'final blow' even if all they used was a warp scrambler. The system parses it this way so that the mail goes to the 'player' who was involved with the kill, not the NPC.
Besides which, if CONCORD gets the kill there should be no insurance payout... technically there should be no payout if CONCORD is involved at all. But that's another issue.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:03:00 -
[74]
Killmails are buggy period. People who do damage to ships (i.e. damage reports in combat log) will often show as having done no damage at all. Other times people end up being on a killmail with their ship as the weapon, or one of their ewar modules appearing to do all the damage, or even just "Unknown" for weapon used.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Durzel Killmails are buggy period. People who do damage to ships (i.e. damage reports in combat log) will often show as having done no damage at all. Other times people end up being on a killmail with their ship as the weapon, or one of their ewar modules appearing to do all the damage, or even just "Unknown" for weapon used.
A good reason for CCP to fix it eh rather than spending money nerfing things which are fine -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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5pinDizzy
Amarr State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:33:00 -
[76]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
This scenario is not likely to ever happen in game (who would wait at a planet for 5 minutes
Oh for gods sake.
I used to think 'CCP don't play their own game' was just idle sarcasm.
It doesn't take 5 minutes waiting at a planet, the 30 seconds it takes to warp to a station and dock is enough.
SHOCKING FACT : A lot of people will undock as soon as their aggression timers disapear off screen, whether it's 2 seconds left or 4 minutes 49 seconds left, as soon as they undock the timer resets and they are barbecued.
I have no idea why you would have difficulty reproducting this, it's pretty straightforward, it's been around for years, I've fell victim to it twice, one of my old ceo's fell for it, a friend of mine fell for it once too.
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L4zor R0B0T
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:38:00 -
[77]
I just wanted to confirm that this invisible timer stuff has been an issue for me as well. It always happens when you dock up with GCC. The station timer seems to reset or something when you dock. When you undock, a yellow aggression timer appears at 14 min 59 secs with the station, and you get blasted. It is most frustrating when you are undocking a smaller ship and you get insta popped. I have lost a destroyer or two that way. (for those of us who have dealt with this, we know better than to do that now. but we shouldn't have to.)
One solution to this issue would be to make it possible to view multiple timers at once on your screen without doing the "Mouse hover" thing where it shows you all your different timers. Because once your red GCC disappears in the station, you can no longer hover your mouse over it to see any other timers and the yellow timer doesn't show up. I'm not sure if this would fix the issue completely or not but it's worth a thought.
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Woodwraith
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2009.11.14 01:47:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tista
Originally by: Durzel Killmails are buggy period. People who do damage to ships (i.e. damage reports in combat log) will often show as having done no damage at all. Other times people end up being on a killmail with their ship as the weapon, or one of their ewar modules appearing to do all the damage, or even just "Unknown" for weapon used.
A good reason for CCP to fix it eh rather than spending money nerfing things which are fine
If its just a single human and x number of npc's on your killmail, the human will get credited for the final blow and recieve the mail, regardless of the amount of damage done or wether or not it was his shot that actually popped you. |
Louis deGuerre
Gallente The Rise of The Dragon Knights Void Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 02:39:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Louis deGuerre on 14/11/2009 02:43:09 I find it pretty hilarious that CCP are apparently completely unaware of this problem that has affected just about everyone who ever fired a shot in lowsec. I thought it was just a case of not wanting/being able to fix it, but this...I am rather shocked to be honest.
EDIT : In retrospect, the FW fiasco is beginning to make a lot more sense... Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie ROTDK is recruiting
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.11.14 03:08:00 -
[80]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri We are aware of the issue of players extending the aggression between pilots by interacting with their wreck, this is being fixed.
There is however no other 'hidden aggro timer' issue that I am aware of, if you have a way of reproducing this error then please file a bug report or an exploit petition listing the exact steps required.
Thank you.
I'm very sorry to be so incredibly rude, but have you played this game?
You at first did not even know what problem we are talking about. I can assume it's never happened to you, so I can assume you do not play this game, or at least do not partake in any player vs player gameplay where you may experience this bug.
This problem has been persistent.
This IS a major problem.
If this is "working as intended" then I will be expecting invisible mission NPCs which deal 300 omni dps with 150 km locking range (oh wait they already do that part, don't they) to unsuspecting targets in empire space.
People do not sit at planets, but there's this bookmark feature which lets you make a bookmark in space. You can chill there while waiting out GCC. I have frequently sat around for half of my GCC in a safespot, then docked to refit or because people are probing for me.
Maybe this is why the game is so broken, because CCP doesn't even understand how their own game works.
I hope I get a 2-week ban for being rude.
Last time I got a 2 week ban it was for making a "spam thread" which happened to at the same time insult CCP. Random ban, no warning lol.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 04:18:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 14/11/2009 04:19:19 Give the guy a break at least hes showing some interest in the problem whilst the rest of the devs are busy coloring in flowcharts on giant whiteboards.
A dev showing ANY interest in low sec piracy is so incredibly rare they should be nurtured, not scorned
SKUNK (o)
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Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:15:00 -
[82]
Knowledge
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
Feldspan
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:22:00 -
[83]
I'm gonna support op with the following statement:
This whole issue is very simple ...
If anything can shoot you, be it a player or an NPC sentry, then there should be a visible timer.
ALL TIMERS NEED TO BE EASILY VISIBLE
Please make this happen, so there is NO MISTAKING IT.
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murder one
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2009.11.14 07:37:00 -
[84]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri There seems to be some confusion around this topic, so I'm going to try to clear some things up by giving you a step by step explanation like the one I am asking for.
1. Pilot A is in a 0.3 system and commits a crime against Pilot B out of sight of sentry guns * This will trigger a GCF, global criminal flag, which lasts for 15 minutes 2. A warps to a planet and waits for 5 minutes * There are now 10 minutes left of the GCF 3. A warps to a station and docks * Because the GCF is still active the sentry guns on the station will consider A a target and attack, this starts another 15 minute NPC aggression timer 4. A waits for 10 minutes so the GCF has run out, then undocks * The NPC timer still has 5 minutes left on it * Because the NPC timer against the station owner is still active the sentry guns will attack A and the timer reset back to 15 minutes * This does not start another GCF 5. A warps to a gate * Unless the gate and station are owned by the same NPC entity the gate sentry guns will not consider A a valid target
This scenario is not likely to ever happen in game (who would wait at a planet for 5 minutes) but it describes my understanding of the basics of the aggression counters. None of the counters I mention should be 'hidden' the GCF is red and the NPC ones are yellow, but it seems a lot of people do not realize that yellow counters will cause sentry guns owned by that entity to engage you. You can easily see the individual breakdown of the timers by mousing over them.
What I am looking for is a similar step by step process that will cause 'hidden' timers.
This is completely correct. The issue: when you warp to the station and dock before the station has a chance to shoot you, the DISPLAY doesn't get set and/or reset, so when you undock you're looking at *nothing* with respect to any sort of aggro timer what so ever. This is the issue.
No red (GCF) or yellow aggro timer. Not until the station starts actively shooting you does the timer get reset and start to display again. It's easily reproducible.
-murder one
[07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 |
Triksterism
Devious Decorum
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:07:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I TALKED TO CCP ABOUT THIS
Their response (paraphrased) was:
Any time you enter the sight of legal sentry fire, you receive an aggression timer for 15 minutes against the corporation they are guarding, even if they do not fire.
Example: You take Global and wait in a safe spot for 7 minutes. You warp to a station and dock without being shot by sentries when you have 6 minutes 30 seconds left on the timer.
Your timer is then extended for 15 minutes to whatever station you dock at, even though no timer is showing. That leaves you with 6 minutes 30 seconds left of global but you still have 15 minutes against the station. When your global disappears you will have 8 minutes 30 seconds left on your silent aggression. And it is just an aggression countdown, not a GCC.
Just an FYI, guys.
This makes no sense, considering when you dock then undock with GCC your GCC aggro timer (the red one), not your entity aggro timer (the yellow one) resets to fifteen minutes.
This is only true for CONCORD owned stations, since they are responsible for GCC. All other stations I've only recieved entity agro after undocking too soon. - User Triksterism is banned pending investigation Reason: You're not welcome here.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:17:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Triksterism
Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa I TALKED TO CCP ABOUT THIS
Their response (paraphrased) was:
Any time you enter the sight of legal sentry fire, you receive an aggression timer for 15 minutes against the corporation they are guarding, even if they do not fire.
Example: You take Global and wait in a safe spot for 7 minutes. You warp to a station and dock without being shot by sentries when you have 6 minutes 30 seconds left on the timer.
Your timer is then extended for 15 minutes to whatever station you dock at, even though no timer is showing. That leaves you with 6 minutes 30 seconds left of global but you still have 15 minutes against the station. When your global disappears you will have 8 minutes 30 seconds left on your silent aggression. And it is just an aggression countdown, not a GCC.
Just an FYI, guys.
This makes no sense, considering when you dock then undock with GCC your GCC aggro timer (the red one), not your entity aggro timer (the yellow one) resets to fifteen minutes.
This is only true for CONCORD owned stations, since they are responsible for GCC. All other stations I've only recieved entity agro after undocking too soon.
What? I explained it just like CCP whoever did.
You get global somewhere. You dock with global, then if sentries don't shoot you, you get a silent aggression timer.
We've already been through this >:(
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:39:00 -
[87]
All this nerd rage, if a DEV isn't a pirate himself he'll never have encountered it personally which means that he'll have to go by what "the logs" state, experience from others and subsequent testing. Is it an old problem? Hell yes but the "do you even play this game" stupidity is laughable, the question should be "do you pirate in low sec" which a lot of EVE playing will answer with a resounding "no". So STFU on that one.
Secondly the issue is already solved (at least figured out), I'm sure a lot of people will have issues understanding logic but it's very simple; The timer display (not the timer itself) is based on the guns shooting instead of the guns sighting you, this is a (somewhat logical) oversight codingwise and should be easily resolved now that they know what's happening.
Stop acting like you have rabies.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. ADM-I |
ShadowMaiden
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:25:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Tista Edited by: Tista on 14/11/2009 00:21:24
2009.11.12 09:41:00
Victim: Tista Corp: Gladiators of Rage Alliance: Wildly Inappropriate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Hurricane System: Jita Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 6755
Involved parties:
Name: Caldari Sentry Gun III / Caldari Navy Damage Done: 6755
Name: m4c3 (laid the final blow) Security: 0.1 Corp: Internal Anarchy Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Ship: Harbinger Weapon: Focused Medium Pulse Laser II Damage Done: 0
Name: CONCORD Police Captain / CONCORD Damage Done: 0
Destroyed items:
Medium Projectile Ambit Extension I, Qty: 2 Medium Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I
Dropped items:
Medium 'Gremlin' Power Core Disruptor I
2009.11.12 10:09:00
Victim: Tista Corp: Gladiators of Rage Alliance: Wildly Inappropriate. Faction: NONE Destroyed: Sleipnir System: Jita Security: 0.9 Damage Taken: 26115
Involved parties:
Name: CONCORD Police Commander / CONCORD Damage Done: 24138
Name: Greening (laid the final blow) Security: -2.2 Corp: Tropical Killer Bananas Alliance: Privateer Alliance Faction: NONE Ship: Raven Weapon: Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Damage Done: 1977
Destroyed items:
Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II, Qty: 2 Phased Plasma M, Qty: 70 Phased Plasma M, Qty: 22352 (Cargo) Medium Core Defence Field Extender I, Qty: 2 Hobgoblin I, Qty: 5 (Drone Bay) Large Shield Extender II, Qty: 2 425mm AutoCannon II Nanofiber Internal Structure II
Dropped items:
Gyrostabilizer II 10MN MicroWarpdrive I Phased Plasma M, Qty: 420 Small Tractor Beam I Ballistic Deflection Field I Large Shield Extender II 425mm AutoCannon II, Qty: 6
Not only is the counter bugged, but this guy got final blow on me without doing any damage... hmm. ANOTHER BUG
Not another bug. Was changed ages ago; if you're flagged to concord, and there are other players shooting you too, the mail goes to the player that did most damage. If it shows zero, it means they did less than 1% of the total damage inflicted, they missed, or they were using a non-damage causing offensive module (f.ex ewar). Whichever way, they still get the report in their combat log.
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Lady Aja
Caldari Cobalt Dragon Exploration Company
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:47:00 -
[89]
Funny thing is...
I learnt about this the hard way and could not figure out why... untill they added visual countdown timers.,
then i saw after I got GCC.. I would warp to a gate jump then dock. I would notice If i hovered my mouse of the yellow countdown timer.
GCC time Gate guns timer and stn timer of where i docked.
Once iknew how this worked all was good. I would dock up for 15 minutes then all good.
just remember it does nto extend GCC only the guns that saw you last will shoot you, if you was not reading this right now? what would you be doing instead of reading my sig?
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.14 11:55:00 -
[90]
Originally by: The Riddik
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
sorry, no sympathy for you. what your doing is pretty lame.
maybe, suck it up and try to be a man and stay in space till your aggo is over instead of trying to avoid the whole aggro mess.
Awwwww buhu.
Need a hug? <3
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF 2008! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
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Vitelius
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:42:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
Had this happen to me too. It is beyond me what timer is still active after waiting over an hour. Then there was also one time when I jumped into empire with a GCC in my pod, docked, hopped into a new ship, went afk for an hour and came back, undocked and the Navy NPCs were all over me - however no concord arrived, no station guns shot me AND my standings toward the faction weren't negative.
These aggro timers and mechanics clearly require fixing.
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Icer Xx
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Posted - 2009.11.14 12:46:00 -
[92]
Verone is manly enough to commentate on tournaments, and at fanfest, where sir, is your testicular fortitude to do such a thing.......That's what i thought.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 13:10:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Icer Xx Verone is manly enough to commentate on tournaments, and at fanfest, where sir, is your testicular fortitude to do such a thing.......That's what i thought.
If I had the spare cash I'd be at the next fanfest taking down members off CCP rugby style until they said ok we will fix this 6 year old issue. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:45:00 -
[94]
Interesting story...
In my Mega I had 7 minutes remaining "normal" agression timer, warped (from on grid) to a clear Villore gate in Old Man Star, spamming jump (odd session change timer in my logs), had a disconnect (perhaps due to a 60 man Caldari (enemy) fleet jumping into system from another gate), decided to go the pub thinking I'd probably be safe having 8 minutes of agression left *My Mistake*.
Log in next day to find myself in a pod at a safespot since a Veto gang (o/ Verone) had popped me 23 minutes after my agression, and dead on 15 minutes after the logout/disconnect.
Apparently if you log with an agression timer, a new 15 minute log-off agression timer starts. I don't ever remember reading this in my game instruction book. Oh wait...
I don't mind Eve being brutal and allowing this to happen, but the information and mechanics of how it all works needs officially documenting and pre-emptively given to players either with more on screen info (like timers), inclusion in tutorials, or a well presented and clear "manual" - rather than CCP "reactory" approach with GMs taking days to respond to endless amounts petitions to answer simple questions regarding mechanics.
So, although my story doesn't specificly relate to the same scenario I think it is symptomatic of the same issues as no info on timers. Would it really be so hard to give us more "official" information?
PS - Evelopedia/Player guide is poor imho
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:50:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Vitelius
Originally by: Verone
Yeah, I love the Global Criminal flag one.
Kill something, get GCC.
Dock with GCC and be AFK for an hour for dinner.
Come back, no timers on screen, undock and get shot.
Had this happen to me too. It is beyond me what timer is still active after waiting over an hour. Then there was also one time when I jumped into empire with a GCC in my pod, docked, hopped into a new ship, went afk for an hour and came back, undocked and the Navy NPCs were all over me - however no concord arrived, no station guns shot me AND my standings toward the faction weren't negative.
These aggro timers and mechanics clearly require fixing.
The 1+ hour aggro timers are a seperate issue of which I didnt really want to confuse the dev with lol
But yes I have seen them as well, but only in empire (normaly after suicide ganking)
You can petition and a dev somehow "resets" your connection if it keeps happening
SKUNK (o)
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:17:00 -
[96]
OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best. ------------------
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:23:00 -
[97]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
Ace. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:36:00 -
[98]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Bfoster
Exactly, but that timer is hidden. It will not show as a yellow timer.
The only time it doesn't create a hidden timer is if A) they actually shoot you B) you dock in a pod
So if you dock fast enough the timer will start in the background but will not show in the client? Does the timer show once they start shooting you?
I'll try some more tomorrow but I have never been able to repro this in game, I would really appreciate if you could take some time to file a bug report including a logserver file and a screenshot of sentries shooting you without a timer. Put 'for CCP Gangleri' into the title to make sure it reaches me.
Here is a youtube video for your viewing pleasure.
Video ------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |
Lrrp
Minmatar The Graduates Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:39:00 -
[99]
In the interim, if you are in high sec as the op was, could you simply just undock in a pod to see if you have a red indicator in the overview? Pods can't be shot in high sec (unless war dec'd of course) so would be a fair way to find out?
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 15:46:00 -
[100]
I've just posted all these details, including video evidence, and CCP Achnologing the issue.. if they say no to my reimbursment... can a member of CCP do it, or sack them please?
-------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:15:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:21:05
Originally by: Tista I've just posted all these details, including video evidence, and CCP Achnologing the issue.. if they say no to my reimbursment... can a member of CCP do it, or sack them please?
can't you just be happy you got a person from ccp to come in on the weekend to look at your problem? lame ass no good pirate thats no good at what he does. cry more.
ban him for an exploit imo.
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:24:00 -
[102]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
YAY
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:25:00 -
[103]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
Kudos to you, good Sir, for going the extra mile! That was truely remarkable...
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:29:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:30:33 ccp knew about this 2+ years ago.
as such everyone who used is from that point on will be punished will they?
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:34:00 -
[105]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
thank you very much for all your work
SKUNK (o)
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Stil Harkonnen
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:34:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Hixxy Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:21:05
Originally by: Tista I've just posted all these details, including video evidence, and CCP Achnologing the issue.. if they say no to my reimbursment... can a member of CCP do it, or sack them please?
can't you just be happy you got a person from ccp to come in on the weekend to look at your problem? lame ass no good pirate thats no good at what he does. cry more.
ban him for an exploit imo.
We asked CCP about a problem, and they answered they will try to fix it now that they know it exists.
The question is, what are YOU rambling about?
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:37:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Stil Harkonnen
Originally by: Hixxy Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:21:05
Originally by: Tista I've just posted all these details, including video evidence, and CCP Achnologing the issue.. if they say no to my reimbursment... can a member of CCP do it, or sack them please?
can't you just be happy you got a person from ccp to come in on the weekend to look at your problem? lame ass no good pirate thats no good at what he does. cry more.
ban him for an exploit imo.
We asked CCP about a problem, and they answered they will try to fix it now that they know it exists.
The question is, what are YOU rambling about?
ccp knew people were using this exploit to evade concord.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:39:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Hixxy
ccp knew people were using this exploit to evade concord.
lol I dont think you understand what this thread is about do you
SKUNK (o)
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:43:00 -
[109]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:44:03
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Hixxy
ccp knew people were using this exploit to evade concord.
lol I dont think you understand what this thread is about do you
SKUNK
dont act stupid, if that guy gets his ship back its as bad as the t2o blueprint gifting unless they want to give everyones isk back that this was used against them
lol next youll say you didnt know about it or how to do it?
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:54:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 14/11/2009 16:55:49
Originally by: Hixxy Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:44:03
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Hixxy
ccp knew people were using this exploit to evade concord.
lol I dont think you understand what this thread is about do you
SKUNK
dont act stupid, if that guy gets his ship back its as bad as the t2o blueprint gifting unless they want to give everyones isk back that this was used against them
lol next youll say you didnt know about it or how to do it?
The thread is about stations carrying hidden aggression timers. This has been explained, and replicated by a Dev who kindly looked into it for us despite a higher then average lunatic count in this thread.
Im not sure where your coming from here, I do not know of an exploit to evade concord and if there is one it is irrelevant to this thread.
If your talking about evading the "faction navies" then this is working as intended and irrelevant to this thread.
SKUNK (o)
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 16:56:00 -
[111]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:57:02
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Hixxy Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 16:44:03
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Hixxy
ccp knew people were using this exploit to evade concord.
lol I dont think you understand what this thread is about do you
SKUNK
dont act stupid, if that guy gets his ship back its as bad as the t2o blueprint gifting unless they want to give everyones isk back that this was used against them
lol next youll say you didnt know about it or how to do it?
The thread is about stations carrying hidden aggression timers. This has been explained, and replicated by a Dev who kindly looked into it for us.
Im not sure where your coming from here, I do not know of an exploit to evade concord and if there is one it is irrelevant to this thread.
If your talking about evading the "faction navies" then this is working as intended and irrelevant to this thread.
SKUNK
i didn't know about it either right. let's all forget about it. 1 less cheat anyway.
****ing lamers
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:01:00 -
[112]
Edited by: Mkiaki on 14/11/2009 17:02:44 CCP in admitting they're wrong shocker... now can you do the same for the sov and SC changes?
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:02:00 -
[113]
This looks like a classic case of the server being always right but just not telling the client. On the server logs, it will show the pilot undocking with a aggression timer running and getting blown up.
It does not show if the client actually displayed the timer or ever got that info. So for reimbursement petitions in this scenario this means, they always have to be rejected because the events of the bug cannot be verified through the logs. --------
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:04:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Hixxy
i didn't know about it either right. let's all forget about it. 1 less cheat anyway.
****ing lamers
Ok so your trolling. I suspected last post but gave you the benefit of the doubt due to your posting history being fairly reasonable.
Now you have been outed as a troll however, I will not be responding to you in the rest of this thread.
Please be warned, that if I discover you trolling three times - you will be put on the black list and not be responded to every again.
SKUNK (o)
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Louis deGuerre
Gallente The Rise of The Dragon Knights Void Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:04:00 -
[115]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
Nice one, Gangleri, hope you get it sorted
And kudos to Bfoster for posting the video proof. Sol: A microwarp drive? In a battleship? Are you insane? They arenÆt built for this! Clear Skies - The Movie ROTDK is recruiting
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CCP Gangleri
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:05:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Tista I've just posted all these details, including video evidence, and CCP Achnologing the issue.. if they say no to my reimbursment... can a member of CCP do it, or sack them please?
I'm just a lowly tester so I can't answer for the GM's, but since this is a client side glitch I would have to guess their logs show nothing wrong. On the server side it will simply look like you undocked too quickly. ------------------
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:06:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Mkiaki Edited by: Mkiaki on 14/11/2009 17:02:44 CCP in admitting they're wrong shocker... now can you do the same for the sov and SC changes?
where?
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Max Romeo
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:06:00 -
[118]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri Confirmed etc etc
I'd like to thank you for putting the time in - and most of all for providing feedback in person and promptly. Good to see for a change!
Perhaps it should be the case that apon undocking the server queries if the player undocking has any flags at all (this remvoes the 'invisible' part that is client side not knowing about the case) - if there are flags the player is asked if he is sure he wants to undock.
While it isnt a fix, it will cover unknown cases where similar things can happen - that will help avoid needless losses and petitions and get more bugs fixed.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:12:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Le Skunk
Originally by: Hixxy
i didn't know about it either right. let's all forget about it. 1 less cheat anyway.
****ing lamers
Ok so your trolling. I suspected last post but gave you the benefit of the doubt due to your posting history being fairly reasonable.
Now you have been outed as a troll however, I will not be responding to you in the rest of this thread.
Please be warned, that if I discover you trolling three times - you will be put on the black list and not be responded to every again.
SKUNK
your saying you didn't know about it? you were always a lamer and that wont ever change(set more cans at a gate moar). if you didn't i did and as such some people have been using it as an exploit in my opinion. if the op is reinbursed so should all the others that this was used against.
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Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:13:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Hixxy
Originally by: Mkiaki Edited by: Mkiaki on 14/11/2009 17:02:44 CCP in admitting they're wrong shocker... now can you do the same for the sov and SC changes?
where?
Linkage
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:22:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 17:23:52
Originally by: Mkiaki
Originally by: Hixxy
Originally by: Mkiaki Edited by: Mkiaki on 14/11/2009 17:02:44 CCP in admitting they're wrong shocker... now can you do the same for the sov and SC changes?
where?
Linkage
twist it more but its not in your favour. you lot knew about this and exploited it for a long time.
makes me wonder why it wasnt fixed for a long time now.
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:22:00 -
[122]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri
Originally by: Tista I've just posted all these details, including video evidence, and CCP Achnologing the issue.. if they say no to my reimbursment... can a member of CCP do it, or sack them please?
I'm just a lowly tester so I can't answer for the GM's, but since this is a client side glitch I would have to guess their logs show nothing wrong. On the server side it will simply look like you undocked too quickly.
logs shmogs.. still a bug:) -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:22:00 -
[123]
Hmmm, seems I wont be docking at any stations till this is fixed I have never been a victim of it, but I normallly dont dock anyway, to easy to get camped in station.
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
Mkiaki
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:26:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Hixxy Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 17:23:52
Originally by: Mkiaki
Originally by: Hixxy
Originally by: Mkiaki Edited by: Mkiaki on 14/11/2009 17:02:44 CCP in admitting they're wrong shocker... now can you do the same for the sov and SC changes?
where?
Linkage
twist it more but its not in your favour. you lot knew about this and exploited it for a long time.
makes me wonder why it wasnt fixed for a long time now.
Excuse me while I harvest your tears, a few hours of enjoyment there.......*harvesting*
Ok now STFU.
TY.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:37:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 17:43:03 keep on dreaming. i know what's what.
more importantly others do too.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:47:00 -
[126]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 17:52:14 Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 17:50:15 Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 17:47:47
Originally by: Aralieus Hmmm, seems I wont be docking at any stations till this is fixed I have never been a victim of it, but I normallly dont dock anyway, to easy to get camped in station.
dont try to dock when you shouldnt all all will be ok.
get in fast enough you get under the radar. the ship will be maked for death you wont.
this has been going on for years:) so get you petitions in.
want more?
la vista you want more?
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Drakkan Koran
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:56:00 -
[127]
Can we also have it confirmed that logging off causes aggression timers to not display on re-logging?
Anecdotal example: You accidentally a target outside Jita 4 - 4 by ctrl clicking the continually moving overview with primed guns. You get 'corded, you dock in your pod, you ctrl Q in emo. You have a cup of tea and phone your Mum. You relog to buy a new ship and there is no display showing that you are still GCFed. You undock and get WTFBBQed.
Is the above example possible?
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 17:58:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 18:03:44
Originally by: Drakkan Koran Can we also have it confirmed that logging off causes aggression timers to not display on re-logging?
Anecdotal example: You accidentally a target outside Jita 4 - 4 by ctrl clicking the continually moving overview with primed guns. You get 'corded, you dock in your pod, you ctrl Q in emo. You have a cup of tea and phone your Mum. You relog to buy a new ship and there is no display showing that you are still GCFed. You undock and get WTFBBQed.
Is the above example possible?
works both ways but i can tell you why the **** it hasnt been fixed.
aon need to interview la vista so i can wipe my arse on it.
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Hixxy
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:22:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Hixxy on 14/11/2009 18:24:23
Originally by: Drakkan Koran Can we also have it confirmed that logging off causes aggression timers to not display on re-logging?
Anecdotal example: You accidentally a target outside Jita 4 - 4 by ctrl clicking the continually moving overview with primed guns. You get 'corded, you dock in your pod, you ctrl Q in emo. You have a cup of tea and phone your Mum. You relog to buy a new ship and there is no display showing that you are still GCFed. You undock and get WTFBBQed.
Is the above example possible?
you docked wen you knew you couldnt right? lets undock in a ship that doesnt look anything like what your driving:P
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Drakkan Koran
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:25:00 -
[130]
Such a thing has never happened to me, I have never tried to dock while GCFed hence me asking. Perhaps I misused the anecdotal word.
Though I'll not deny it is how I imagined the OPs situation came to be. |
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari The Confederate Navy Forever Unbound
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 18:50:00 -
[131]
Originally by: Hixxy i didn't know about it either right. let's all forget about it. 1 less cheat anyway.
****ing lamers
Wow, did you read the thread at all? This has nothing to do with CONCORD at all. CONCORD isn't even involved one bit. Could you please at least do some research before you start throwing personal insults around?
Clueless person... ---- The Demigodess with a Conscience - An EVE IC Blog Personal Killboard |
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CCP Sisyphus
|
Posted - 2009.11.14 19:00:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 13/11/2009 22:57:28
The "Hidden Timer" complaint is as follows:
1) Player X in low sec shoots at a non outlaw in a belt 2) Player X triggers a 15 min GCC 3) Player X loots wreck, salvages wreck and warps to dock
AT THIS POINT HE HAS. -->A GCC timer OF 13 MINS (2 mins for looting fot the sake of argument)(displayed) -->A Player aggression timer to his recently killed target (irrelevant to this discussion but also displayed)
4) Player lands on station
5) STATION "SEES" THE GLOBAL CRIMINAL AND INITIATES FIRING PROCEDURE 6) Pilot is DOCKED before the sentrys can get a shot off
AT THIS POINT HE HAS ->> Global Criminal Timer of 12.5 mins (30 seconds assumed to warp to station) --> Player Aggression Timer to Player whom was killed in the belt
-->AND A NOT DISPLAYED, FIFTEEN MINUTE TIMER TO THE STATION CORPORATION: This is the hidden timer which will cause the later destruction of your ship.
If the station managed to get a shot off, then the correct 15 min timer is displayed. If it "saw" the pilot but the docking procedure was so rapid that no shots were fired, the same 15 min timer is triggered, but it is NOT displayed
END RESULT:
The end result is that 13 mins after docking, there are no aggression timers displayed to the player. Indeed the GCC and the killed player aggression has finished.
But there is STILL 120 seconds (in the above case) of aggession due from the station which is not displayed. The player then undocks in a interceptor and is one volleyed by the station and destroyed.
In addition the station timer is reset to 15 mins and is now correctly displayed.
Depending on the timings - there can be up to a 14 minute 59 second hidden timer from the station.
Hope this is of help
SKUNK
____________________________________
TLDR: Put simply, One suspects that the station aggression timer is triggered on sight, but the display of the timer is triggered on the first shot.
The docking procedure prevents the shot and so prevents the display of the timer, but not its actual triggering.
QFE!
Its reports like this that let us reproduce an issue and find out where in the code things are less than optimal. If we got more bug reports like this, with detailed repro steps that work there would be less bugs in eve :)
Only improvement I can think of would be to give an example station (this doesn't happen on all stations, only ones that allow an "immediate dock")+
Thank you very much Le Skunk.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:05:00 -
[133]
I'm fairly astonished that GMs don't know about this - or claim not to. Doesn't matter if they are "pirates" or not. They should and they don't which is pretty inexcusable. Oh and I KNOW you've had bugreports on this prior to now.
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike The Council.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:12:00 -
[134]
Originally by: Othran I'm fairly astonished that GMs don't know about this - or claim not to. Doesn't matter if they are "pirates" or not. They should and they don't which is pretty inexcusable. Oh and I KNOW you've had bugreports on this prior to now.
QFT I'm fairly certain that I reported this two years ago.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:34:00 -
[135]
Originally by: CCP Sisyphus QFE!
Its reports like this that let us reproduce an issue and find out where in the code things are less than optimal. If we got more bug reports like this, with detailed repro steps that work there would be less bugs in eve :)
Only improvement I can think of would be to give an example station (this doesn't happen on all stations, only ones that allow an "immediate dock")+
Thank you very much Le Skunk.
all stations allow immediate dock. just:
1) set up a bookmark inside dock radius 2) warp to bookmark 3) when you land press dock.
as long as you aren't running on a 10 year old machine, or getting your packets routed through hell, you should dock up well before the sentries get a shot off.
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Isurus Paucus
Omicron Resource Technologies Limited
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:37:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Hixxy
you docked wen you knew you couldnt right? lets undock in a ship that doesnt look anything like what your driving:P
What in the hell are you on about? You CAN dock once you've been concorded as they've gotten their piece. We're not talking about avoiding Concord at all, but docking when you have a criminal flag (which one can get WITHOUT being concorded in low-sec last I checked).
There is no game mechanic that says you can't dock with a criminal flag unless you are attempting to avoid concord. As we're not talking about that, you're a bit off base.
Or you're just an idiot. Take your pick.
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Iguny
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:38:00 -
[137]
last thing i heard about this about 1 year ago. This was a exploit, and got you baned.
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Bfoster
The Python Cartel.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:12:00 -
[138]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
Thanks.. ------------
My Killboard- The Python Cartel |
Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:16:00 -
[139]
Rewinding to when all these timers were added it was very clearly the intention that you had to stay in space while flagged, and that docking could not be used to avoid or wait out the timer.
No idea why anyone thinks it should be any different now, and I am a little saddened to see CCP testing this as if it were a bug.
アニメ漫画です
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:21:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Othran on 14/11/2009 20:24:47 As a developer has now reproduced the bug can we now have confirmation that ALL GMs have been alerted to this and will be reimbursing ships without the usual nonsense - AKA the logs they show nothing?
You see the reason I knew about this is because this predates GCC timers by a VERY long time. I got a ship reimbursed on a long since dead account in 2004 - yes FIVE years ago - because a GM who DID play the game knew exactly why the sentry guns popped me.
Oh and Avon - its to do with timers NOT being displayed. Nobody is talking about "evading" anything, but getting one ship popped is all that was meant to happen if you got concord on your case. Having faction/corp sentries popping you when you can't even SEE a timer is asinine in the extreme!
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B Cassidy
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:27:00 -
[141]
Edited by: B Cassidy on 14/11/2009 20:30:24 Those of you who saw my explanations on the KM's above back like 2 pages are hilarious. You all decided to discuss the point i made about the final blows. Fine but you completely ignored the fact that concord was on BOTH KM's.
If the concord model of crime and punishment extended into real life it would suck to commit a crime go to jail on your day of release they let you take 2 steps out of the jail only to come back and throw you back in for another sentence on the same crime...
The point of discussing the km's was because I was hoping to get an explanation as to why Concord chose to partake in blowing up 2 different ships 1 with reason 1 without?
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Deziel Sma
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:41:00 -
[142]
I am guessing that you get concorded again if you are in a ship (other than a shuttle), in space, in hi-sec and have active GCF.
Shall I just log in and see for myself?
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:30:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Iguny last thing i heard about this about 1 year ago. This was a exploit, and got you baned.
I agree concord should be banned for this. Definitely.
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:33:00 -
[144]
Edited by: Othran on 14/11/2009 21:34:31 Yes Deziel you will.
Since Avon felt the need to (once again) bring up ancient history I thought I'd remind him how concord was orginally SUPPOSED to work. He and I both know why the "eye for an eye" approach failed though.
I would reiterate though that once your ship gets popped by concord (assuming GCC in high-sec) there is NO REASON AT ALL AND NEVER HAS BEEN why you could not dock up in your pod and wait out the aggro.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:59:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Durzel on 14/11/2009 22:01:00 I don't understand why people are talking about CONCORD or exploits or whatever, maybe someone can enlighten me.
You can't dock in highsec in a ship with a GCF, the message says you are denied docking rights for several minutes if memory serves. Since CONCORD never take long to appear in practice most people never see this message anyway, in fact the only time you'd see it is if you were aligned to a station, got yourself a GCF and warped before CONCORD turned up. Either way you'd lose your ship in all circumstances.
In lowsec you can dock, in ships, whilst having a GCF, you just get shot at by the station sentries if you land outside docking range.
Maybe Hixxy is getting confused? Noone is talking about evading anything, or exploits or whatever. Being lit up by sentries when you think it's safe to undock or jump is not fun, I've had it happen a couple of times myself and if your ship can't tank sentry fire anyway you can often be in serrous trouble when it happens.
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Nareg Maxence
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:32:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Durzel Edited by: Durzel on 14/11/2009 22:07:53 I don't understand why people are talking about CONCORD or exploits or whatever, maybe someone can enlighten me.
A lot of people only train reading and comprehension to level one or two tops.. They have trolling, whining and emoraging maxed though.
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Mrs Snowman
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Posted - 2009.11.14 22:46:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Othran I'm fairly astonished that GMs don't know about this - or claim not to. Doesn't matter if they are "pirates" or not. They should and they don't which is pretty inexcusable. Oh and I KNOW you've had bugreports on this prior to now.
Indeed.
Especially as people in CCP claim to play Eve all the time!..
Its just like the drone problem, for years they denied there was ever a problem, and yet anyone who ever used drones knew it.
Problems like this only seem to get addressed when there is enough spam about it in general chat.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.11.15 00:03:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Mrs Snowman
Originally by: Othran I'm fairly astonished that GMs don't know about this - or claim not to. Doesn't matter if they are "pirates" or not. They should and they don't which is pretty inexcusable. Oh and I KNOW you've had bugreports on this prior to now.
Indeed.
Especially as people in CCP claim to play Eve all the time!..
Its just like the drone problem, for years they denied there was ever a problem, and yet anyone who ever used drones knew it.
Problems like this only seem to get addressed when there is enough spam about it in general chat.
They did say they failed to reproduce the bug. Can't fix it until you can reproduce it. The tidbit of info no-one apparently mentioned in the bugreports was to dock before the guns fire, which is only possible at certain stations or use of bookmarks. This information was included in this thread.
Originally by: Signature Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Kibbler
Endemic Aggression Exalted.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 02:18:00 -
[149]
Confirming I've lost a Buzzard and Crow to this bug and that it has been around for years.
Confirming it really sucks having the game tell you your aggression for everything else, then 'hiding' actual deadly aggression rights.
Fixplz.
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Kastovic Sm'irle
RSP Enterprises Huzzah Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.15 02:25:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Avon Rewinding to when all these timers were added it was very clearly the intention that you had to stay in space while flagged, and that docking could not be used to avoid or wait out the timer.
No idea why anyone thinks it should be any different now, and I am a little saddened to see CCP testing this as if it were a bug.
Agreed.
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Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.11.15 03:06:00 -
[151]
Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
Its reports like this that let us reproduce an issue and find out where in the code things are less than optimal. If we got more bug reports like this, with detailed repro steps that work there would be less bugs in eve :)
Yes, because your customers pay to be your personal QA-team and write reports without any form of dispensation. How about giving out some subscription time to Le Skunk?
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Tista
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Posted - 2009.11.15 03:59:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Tobias Sjodin
Originally by: CCP Sisyphus
Its reports like this that let us reproduce an issue and find out where in the code things are less than optimal. If we got more bug reports like this, with detailed repro steps that work there would be less bugs in eve :)
Yes, because your customers pay to be your personal QA-team and write reports without any form of dispensation. How about giving out some subscription time to Le Skunk?
Aye, refund him the money he spent on telling you boys how to fix the god damn game you made. -------------------- "this is the templar fighter used by carriers" Originaly quoted by Shania Eria.
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.11.15 04:50:00 -
[153]
They need a detailed report because "fix this ****" doesn't exactly give them any information to start from. The issue was frustrating for me as well, I supported the OP, but giving sarcastic replies saying how we shouldn't have to help with detailed information is a waste of time for everyone.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.15 04:52:00 -
[154]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/11/2009 04:53:19 Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/11/2009 04:52:22
Originally by: Avon Rewinding to when all these timers were added it was very clearly the intention that you had to stay in space while flagged, and that docking could not be used to avoid or wait out the timer.
No idea why anyone thinks it should be any different now, and I am a little saddened to see CCP testing this as if it were a bug.
your an out of touch (by three years) ex pirate 0.0 er
Please STFU commenting on stuff you clearly dont understand. You have chosen your path so stick with it. You are NOT a pirate you are a drone of an alliance. Convo your ex corpies before you comment and you wont embarrase yourself
Thanks
SKUNK (o)
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Waukesha
Amarr Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.11.15 09:55:00 -
[155]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
Thats funny cos i got a response from a GM at least one year ago explaining that session change type actions will silently reset the timer. (changing ship, relogging etc)
So I don't know how its gone on this long...
Most ppl have just learnt the hard way and moved on.. after being given the finger when petitioning their losses.
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Salmeria
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.15 10:27:00 -
[156]
angry people who dont understand bug fixing ITT
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cant think2
Amarr Unity Of Legends
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:21:00 -
[157]
seems i have a similar problem.. everyone in my corp just knows not to undock for a extra couple minutes.
But the thing that annoys me more is this one:
When the station does actually shoot you and the timer is showing that your agressed with that station, why the hell does it shoot you after the damn timer is finished ? wait 30 seconds...undock... they will open up on you again ...timer isnt showing.. your defenitely 100% not agressed. --------- Unity Of Legends Recruitment |
Deva Blackfire
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.15 12:34:00 -
[158]
I just wonder why sometimes station will engage you after 20-25 minutes of sitting inside? That should be past every timer out there. Yet sometimes i get caught with 30 minute "out of thin air" timer (think last time i had this was year ago in Bosena system - but i wasnt rly pirating since then).
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 15:28:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Le Skunk Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/11/2009 05:00:00 Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/11/2009 04:58:40
Originally by: Avon Rewinding to when all these timers were added it was very clearly the intention that you had to stay in space while flagged, and that docking could not be used to avoid or wait out the timer.
No idea why anyone thinks it should be any different now, and I am a little saddened to see CCP testing this as if it were a bug.
your an out of touch (by three years) ex pirate 0.0 er
Please STFU commenting on stuff you clearly dont understand. You have chosen your path so stick with it. You are NOT a pirate you are a drone of an alliance. Convo your ex corpies before you comment and you wont embarrase yourself
Thanks
I don't remember CCP ever stating that they retracted the "you can't wait out your timer while docked thing", so even though I am going back to when this was introduced I don't see how it is out of date.
If the problem is people not being aware of how the game mechanics work, and why they work that way, add it to the evelopedia wiki thingy, or give them a huge bloody flashing message in the station if they need it.
The mechanic *needs* to work as it does otherwise there is little point in having a flagging system at all.
This is a thread about ignorance being punished (in this case by sentry guns) and personally I am enjoying it very much.
アニメ漫画です
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.15 16:27:00 -
[160]
Edited by: Le Skunk on 15/11/2009 16:27:58
Originally by: Avon
This is a thread about ignorance being punished (in this case by sentry guns) and personally I am enjoying it very much.
Sorry i was a bit acidic in my earlier post but I find it ironic you criticize ignorance whilst displaying it in spades.
The point of this thread (as me, the CCP employess, and about 50% of the posters realize) is that there is a bug in the game when it comes to aggro timers.
To clarify This is a bug, and is not intended, and never was intended
In the top left corner of the screen a number of aggression timers will display for a variety of reasons.
When you commit a global criminal inducing act (for example shooting a non outlaw in low sec you have no rights on) a red timer appears, and counts down.
If you subsequently warp to a gate, then the owners of the gate (eg amarr navy) will then trigger a 15 minute yellow aggro timer to the corp which will appear in addition to the red GCC timer (which will now be less then 15 mins). Even if your GCC runs out - theses sentry guns will continue to shoot at you untill the corp aggro goes. This timer appears in the top left corner.
If you subsequently warp to a station, the owners of the station will likewise shoot you, and trigger there own 15 min yellow timer. This timer is displayed in the top left hand corner.
THE BUG OCCURS WHEN YOU DOCK FASTER THEN THE SENTRY GUNS CAN GET A SHOT OFF. A HIDDEN TIMER IS TRIGGERED BUT DOES NOT DISPLAY
Its the DOES NOT DISPLAY part that is the bug. Nobody is complaining about a 15 minute timer being triggered. The complaint is that unlike EVERY OTHER FORM OF AGGRESSION - no timer is displayed.
This behavior is an anomaly. Every other form of aggression triggers a timer. Even being shot at by a rat triggers a timer. Sitting outside the station and allowing one shot to hit you triggers the timer.
Docking before the shot is fired TRIGGERS the timer but DOES NOT DISPLAY the timer
Even if we did follow your "you cant sit out a timer whilst docked" comment - THE TIMER SHOULD STILL BE DISPLAYED (but remain on 15 mins or whatever). The timer is NOT displayed.
This bug has been replicated by CCP (in this thread) and we are told it will be fixed when they get a chance. Why you have a problem with this - nobody knows.
SKUNK
(o)
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Oscardoodle
Amarr
|
Posted - 2009.11.15 17:16:00 -
[161]
Originally by: CCP Gangleri I'm just a lowly tester so I can't answer for the GM's, but since this is a client side glitch I would have to guess their logs show nothing wrong. On the server side it will simply look like you undocked too quickly.
How sad that a "lowly tester" is the only CCP staffer who's given 2 ****s about actually trying to reproduce this well known, well documented, and much maligned bug.
Kudos to you for taking the time to officially verify that this bug exists, as well as giving us some assurances that you will attempt to fix it for the Dominion rollout. I for one truly appreciate it, even if it can't be fixed right away.
I wish more devs had the stones to admit when there is something wrong with their game.
Shame on the rest of the devs and gm's who've been giving us the lazy "logs show nothing, not reproducable, close petition, file bug report, logs show nothing, not reproducable, close bug report" responses for years on end.
Shame shame shame.
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Avon
Caldari Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.15 17:24:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Avon on 15/11/2009 17:24:46
Originally by: Le Skunk
Its the DOES NOT DISPLAY part that is the bug. Nobody is complaining about a 15 minute timer being triggered. The complaint is that unlike EVERY OTHER FORM OF AGGRESSION - no timer is displayed.
No, I fully understood all of what you said, however, there are people complaining that they are shot even longer than 15 minutes after they docked.
The point you are making is not the only one made in this thread, so don't attack me over your misunderstanding.
You were not meant to be able to wait out your timer in a station, hidden or not.
I agree that a timer should be visible, but also it shouldn't count down while docked.
People moaning that they docked to wait out the timer, and then got killed when undocking garner no sympathy from me, timer visible or not. Wait out your timer in space where other people can blast the living crap out of you (assuming it is a pvp flag, if it is an npc flag I could care less).
People being able to attack in lo-sec and then go hide in a station is a terrible mechanic, even if they have to wait out a timer, and in fact defeats the whole point of a criminal flagging system.
Now, calm down.
アニメ漫画です
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Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:03:00 -
[163]
"You were not meant to be able to wait out your timer in a station, hidden or not."
Wrong. Utterly and completely.
You were not meant to be able to wait out your timer in a station in the ship that triggered the timer, nor were you meant to be able to get out of that ship to prevent the NPC aggro.
BIG difference as NPCs never kill pods, which are free to dock/do whatever. You know why this happened.
Having invisible timers is TOTALLY ASININE. Nobody in their right mind can defend it.
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:24:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Avon
Rewinding to when all these timers were added it was very clearly the intention that you had to stay in space while flagged, and that docking could not be used to avoid or wait out the timer.
No idea why anyone thinks it should be any different now, and I am a little saddened to see CCP testing this as if it were a bug.
Originally by: Le Skunk
Its the DOES NOT DISPLAY part that is the bug. Nobody is complaining about a 15 minute timer being triggered. The complaint is that unlike EVERY OTHER FORM OF AGGRESSION - no timer is displayed.
Originally by: avon
No, I fully understood all of what you said, however, there are people complaining that they are shot even longer than 15 minutes after they docked.
The point you are making is not the only one made in this thread, so don't attack me over your misunderstanding.
I agree that a timer should be visible, but also it shouldn't count down while docked.
You stated you were "saddened to see ccp testing this as if it were a bug" (see quote)
I tried to explain that the bug hunting (that you were saddened by) that was being tested by CCP was the "do not display element" (see quote) not what you were talking about.
You clearly did not understand this as the above quotes show. You started your first post by being "deeply saddened" that ccp were testing something as if it was a bug - but by your third post you were agreeing that the timer should be visible.
Well it isnt visible.
And thats whats being fixed.
So no need to be deeply saddend.
SKUNK
(o)
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Billybob Braggins
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:47:00 -
[165]
eve is a dark, violent world... if you cant take it better go back to easier games... dont come here and cry for our game to be dumbed down again... |
Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:56:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Othran on 15/11/2009 20:55:53 Go away. You fail at trolling.
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Mrs Snowman
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Posted - 2009.11.15 21:53:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Billybob Braggins eve is a dark, violent world... if you cant take it better go back to easier games... dont come here and cry for our game to be dumbed down again...
WAKE UP!
the issue is not about eve. or cant u understand that?
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Gauss Markov
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Posted - 2009.11.15 22:13:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Mrs Snowman
Originally by: Billybob Braggins eve is a dark, violent world... if you cant take it better go back to easier games... dont come here and cry for our game to be dumbed down again...
WAKE UP!
the issue is not about eve. or cant u understand that?
It sure is. It's about people too lazy to make sure that when they shoot at people, they don't have wrecks and other junk laying around that can be used against them. So they whine until EvE takes care of the hard work for them.
If this statement doesn't make sense to you, then you don't know anything about aggro mechanics. -
Vote for Logit Probit for CSM! |
Oscardoodle
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.15 23:09:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Gauss Markov
Originally by: Mrs Snowman
Originally by: Billybob Braggins eve is a dark, violent world... if you cant take it better go back to easier games... dont come here and cry for our game to be dumbed down again...
WAKE UP!
the issue is not about eve. or cant u understand that?
It sure is. It's about people too lazy to make sure that when they shoot at people, they don't have wrecks and other junk laying around that can be used against them. So they whine until EvE takes care of the hard work for them.
If this statement doesn't make sense to you, then you don't know anything about aggro mechanics.
Neither do you apparantly. CCP has stated that the agro timer should be visible.
It currently isn't.
It is a bug.
Stuff your epeen back in your track pants.
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Koldosa
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Posted - 2009.11.16 08:23:00 -
[170]
Thank you for looking at this CCP! I will buy you a beer if I am in Iceland sometime. DON'T FEED THE TROLLS WHO HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THIS THREAD IS ABOUT :)
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Mrs Snowman
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:06:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Gauss Markov
It sure is. It's about people too lazy to make sure that when they shoot at people, they don't have wrecks and other junk laying around that can be used against them.
No, its about developers who claim to play when clearly they dont.
Originally by: Gauss Markov If this statement doesn't make sense to you, then you don't know anything about aggro mechanics.
You dont NEED to know anything about the mechanic, the timer doesnt display! its not about when you get it or when you lose it or even about why. It doesnt show up on the screen.
So its not about how "dark" eve is or how much of a "violent world" it is, this issue isnt even about how hard or easy Eve is, its about a bug!
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Muad' Dib
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:27:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 16/11/2009 14:36:08
Originally by: CCP Gangleri There seems to be some confusion around this topic ...
You obviously do not play on TQ; this does happen, very often, but this is not a problem. The whines come from the problem with extending aggro using wrecks - which i know of being exploited in major mission hubs at least 1yr back and yet you have done nothing about it ... not that i complain about anything griefing high-sec mission runners, and then there is the problems with the aggro system being buggy as hell, which you conveniently have not mentioned. Quite often pirates - see ... they're these groups of ppl who commit acts that activate the GCF in low-sec who also live there ... just to help you understand on which game's boards you are replying, have problems with sentries shooting them without any aggro out there, hidden or otherwise, out of the blue.
May i suggest you read eve-wiki again ?
LE: As for the bug reporting; why should i waste my RL time explaining to your overpayed, underqualified staff how this game works when these reports are just going to be set aside and forgotten untill there is enough public uproar to make them resurface ... remember the moongold dupe exploit ?
Originally by: CCP Gangleri OK, so I came into the office today specifically to research this case (need to stop reading forums on Friday nights) and wasn't expecting anything really. I had heard of this issue before but never been able to reproduce it.
Took about an hour of warping to various stations (love those CONCORD stations in Egbinger) before one finally let me dock quickly enough to evade the sentries. Sure enough, after waiting for the timers to run out I undocked only to be blasted by sentry fire.
I can't promise that it will be fixed in Dominion but we'll do our best.
Let me help you out in the reproducing of this issue in the future.
You undock from a station with a big undock ring with a ship that has a tad of buffer - cruiser with 1 gun + 2 sensor boosters t2 works, you make a ss inside the dock ring, you warp to a gate; after landing, you align for a planet, you lock a sentry on the gate, and shoot it, the moment it starts shooting back and you have GCF, you warp to planet, sit untill timer goes from, 14min something to 13min something. You warp to the bookmark and dock, then you undock when timer 'should be over'.
See how easy it is when you know game mechanics ? --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market ! |
Lubomir Penev
Dark Nexxus
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:22:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Vyktor Abyss Interesting story...
In my Mega I had 7 minutes remaining "normal" agression timer, warped (from on grid) to a clear Villore gate in Old Man Star, spamming jump (odd session change timer in my logs), had a disconnect (perhaps due to a 60 man Caldari (enemy) fleet jumping into system from another gate), decided to go the pub thinking I'd probably be safe having 8 minutes of agression left *My Mistake*.
Log in next day to find myself in a pod at a safespot since a Veto gang (o/ Verone) had popped me 23 minutes after my agression, and dead on 15 minutes after the logout/disconnect.
Apparently if you log with an agression timer, a new 15 minute log-off agression timer starts. I don't ever remember reading this in my game instruction book. Oh wait...
What I think happened :
They probed you during your initial 15 minutes, aggressed you (new 15 minute timer), waited a while for you to come back (they wanted you to see your own death, or attempt ransoming), then popped you seeing you where a no show.
Your beer drinking actually griefed them. -- 081014 : emoragequit, char transfered to a friend, 090317 : back to original owner blog |
Ravow
Minmatar Cosmic Encounter BULLFROG.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 17:10:00 -
[174]
Interesting story about this bug:
We are a pirate corporation and we always have a GCC when we are playing. This week end, we wanted to install 1 can full of Cap Booster 800 near the gate so one of our member with only 1 minutes of timer left proceeded to the dock, switch to the indu, fill the indu, undock after all counter wear off + like 5 minutes...
Sentry kill hauler...
He return to the gate in combat ship and when the traffic slow down... he return to try to get his new hauler refilled with cap booster... 5 or 6 minutes after all counter "gone", he undock and... lost his hauler to the sentry!
The third time He was able to reach the gate with the can+Cap booster but... It cost two hauler because of this stupid counter bug to see that we can't anchor a can near than 100KM from the gate..
Also, I very annoying to lost ransomed ship this way (You have 2 minutes left on the counter, you dock, switch to POD.. wait the counter.... undock... warp to your freshly new un-piloted ship, board the ship.... lost the ship to gate sentry..
Please, fix it!
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