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Diamaht Nevain
Gallente Avatar Union
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Posted - 2009.11.14 06:27:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Diamaht Nevain on 14/11/2009 06:27:55 I suggest learning skills be remove and just add the points to everyone's totals. Honestly it doesn't do much but act as a hassle and a turn-off for new players. They have to train skills for a month to reasonably be able to train more skills, serves no purpose.
It would also cost the community nothing, if you have 30 milliion sp's you'll have a 31.5 million sp advantage on them by the time they train the skills up. No difference really and we get them into the game a month earlier. With a steep learning curve and a lot of training ahead of them this will make the game a little more accessible from the start and make it more likely for them to stick around.
Note: (Before I get flamed) I have two accounts, both are a couple years old and both have learning skills trained already. =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships |
AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:34:00 -
[2]
Edited by: AterraX on 14/11/2009 08:34:45 So you want to give people a SP boost when they start, but the make training in the rest of gametime much slower?
*thumbs down*
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.11.14 08:53:00 -
[3]
as i cant find the thread atm. learning skills are good as is. if you want the faster training time. you train them a little or fully. if you dont. you can still achieve your goals just a bit slower.
what should be banned from the game is "you have to train learning skills to this level before you can do anything else." this is just plain wrong and stupid. and *that* discourages new players. i tell all my friends, who start with eve: start a bit with the learnings and put skills in that get you new things to try. so they get a new module or better module every few days and inbetween their learning skills go up.
not supported (obviously)
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Nur AlHuda
Amarr Callide Vulpis
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Posted - 2009.11.14 09:36:00 -
[4]
No. This is not world of warcraft. People need to spill blood to get soemthink not to obtain it for free.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.11.14 09:45:00 -
[5]
oh no.. not again...
Big no to this dumb idea. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.14 14:03:00 -
[6]
Dead horse, meet stick. *thwack thwack thwack*
The hassle and turn off to new players isn't learning skills, it's the crappy advice people give them surrounding the learning skills.
New Player: "Hi I just started! What should I do first?" Old Player: "ZOMG TRAIN YUR LEARNINGZ TO OVER 9000 IMMEDIATELY!!!?!!ione!!" New Player: "zzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz" /quit
Frankly, learning skills need to be discussed, in detail, in the NPE, along with a tutorial on how to properly train them. There's no need for a new toon to train all the learning skills to 5/4 or 4/3 before they set foot in a ship(unless it's an alt, and then you should be smart enough to figure out what you need).
My recommendation: Train the basics to 3, then start working on the skills you want for the game. Get the ability to fly a frigate fairly well, or to mine, to be research, or whatever, BEFORE you even think of coming back to them.
Getting all five base skills to a 3 will take about as long as it takes to complete the new player experience and the first epic arc, assuming you also train the freebie skills they give you to level 1 when they hand them out. At that point you have a decent smattering of base skills, as well as a good head start on your learning skills, and you're not even half way through your bonus period.
People aren't quitting EVE because of learning skills. People are quitting eve because of the bad advice given tot hem by other players about learning skills. --Vel
In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d. |
Diamaht Nevain
Gallente Avatar Union
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Posted - 2009.11.14 18:28:00 -
[7]
I guess the question I would have is: What purpose do they serve?
None that I can see, but whatever. =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships |
Scerolikk Teromni
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:04:00 -
[8]
I've said this before, and I'll say it again:
EVE has enough players that CCP doesn't need to act in desperation to coddle newbies so that more will stick around.
Learning skills are fine. Move along.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.11.14 19:58:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain I guess the question I would have is: What purpose do they serve?
None that I can see, but whatever.
Don't train them if you don't see a purpose. Nobody is forcing you. ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain I guess the question I would have is: What purpose do they serve?
None that I can see, but whatever.
Your ghey, if you dont want them, dont buy and train them.
They serve a purpose, if a player wants to progress further he can put some time aside to train them up a level every so often.
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Diamaht Nevain
Gallente Avatar Union
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:06:00 -
[11]
Wow...the nerd rage on these forums is pathetic. Get a life folks, log off your computers every once in a while and you might not be so angry at the world.
Just sad =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships |
Juliette DuBois
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:30:00 -
[12]
OP is right, rest of you are wrong. Nuff said.
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Kiko Tojima
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:36:00 -
[13]
Looks more like OP can't take criticism...
Making a game too conveniant just kills the motivation. I've already seen that on another MMO and don't want to see that mistake again. Disagree.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: De'Veldrin Dead horse, meet stick. *thwack thwack thwack*
The hassle and turn off to new players isn't learning skills, it's the crappy advice people give them surrounding the learning skills.
New Player: "Hi I just started! What should I do first?" Old Player: "ZOMG TRAIN YUR LEARNINGZ TO OVER 9000 IMMEDIATELY!!!?!!ione!!" New Player: "zzzzzzzZZZZZzzzzz" /quit
Frankly, learning skills need to be discussed, in detail, in the NPE, along with a tutorial on how to properly train them. There's no need for a new toon to train all the learning skills to 5/4 or 4/3 before they set foot in a ship(unless it's an alt, and then you should be smart enough to figure out what you need).
My recommendation: Train the basics to 3, then start working on the skills you want for the game. Get the ability to fly a frigate fairly well, or to mine, to be research, or whatever, BEFORE you even think of coming back to them.
Getting all five base skills to a 3 will take about as long as it takes to complete the new player experience and the first epic arc, assuming you also train the freebie skills they give you to level 1 when they hand them out. At that point you have a decent smattering of base skills, as well as a good head start on your learning skills, and you're not even half way through your bonus period.
People aren't quitting EVE because of learning skills. People are quitting eve because of the bad advice given tot hem by other players about learning skills.
Precisely.
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Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain Wow...the nerd rage on these forums is pathetic. Get a life folks, log off your computers every once in a while and you might not be so angry at the world.
Just sad
Coming from the person who keeps coming back to his alredi dieing post of BULLSH!T.
I only log off my computer when your mum is puttin some out, which dont happen often coz shes probably dead...im harsh, live with it
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Diamaht Nevain
Gallente Avatar Union
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Posted - 2009.11.14 20:58:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gibbo3771
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain Wow...the nerd rage on these forums is pathetic. Get a life folks, log off your computers every once in a while and you might not be so angry at the world.
Just sad
Coming from the person who keeps coming back to his alredi dieing post of BULLSH!T.
I only log off my computer when your mum is puttin some out, which dont happen often coz shes probably dead...im harsh, live with it
That's right, let it all out. You'll feel better
It's ok to cry =============================== Two words: Internet Spaceships |
Gibbo3771
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Posted - 2009.11.14 21:04:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Gibbo3771 on 14/11/2009 21:06:47
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain
Originally by: Gibbo3771
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain Wow...the nerd rage on these forums is pathetic. Get a life folks, log off your computers every once in a while and you might not be so angry at the world.
Just sad
Coming from the person who keeps coming back to his alredi dieing post of BULLSH!T.
I only log off my computer when your mum is puttin some out, which dont happen often coz shes probably dead...im harsh, live with it
That's right, let it all out. You'll feel better
Eyour the one that is cryin becuase you spent a whole 4 days training some learning skills ok **** knows wth is happening to my screen, so dontg even know if this has been typed right as ghe box keeps jumping all over the place
It's ok to cry
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Don Pellegrino
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Posted - 2009.11.14 23:05:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Diamaht Nevain I guess the question I would have is: What purpose do they serve?
None that I can see, but whatever.
Effort vs Reward.
Do you prefer instant gratification or spending time (effort) to train learning skills first.
Both ways are good, it is all about giving people choices.
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Iodus
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Posted - 2009.11.14 23:18:00 -
[19]
I'm against this idea. I'm a new player and learning skills don't discourage me from playing the game. I think it gives an advantage to people who are wise enough to invest in those skills, delaying immediate gratification for an improved gain in the future. Just like it is in real life actually.
Funnily enough, studies have found that kids of kinder garden age who have been able to wait before eating a candy in exchange for getting more candy later have much less chance of holding criminal records 20+ years later. Stupid people (yeah, I'm saying criminals are stupid, or those who got caught and have a record, anyway!) can't control their urges.
If anything, I'd suggest that learning skills give more bonuses so that the effect for the long term player is even greater.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2009.11.14 23:33:00 -
[20]
No, not now, not ever, they are not mandatory, just some idiots think they should be trained right off the bat, which is wrong.
They should be trained at a time suited to the individual. The Light in the Darkness
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Kalnov
Broski Enterprises No Fun Allowed
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Posted - 2009.11.15 02:50:00 -
[21]
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Nico Terces
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Posted - 2009.11.15 11:41:00 -
[22]
I'm of the opinion that everyone should start with all basic learning skills at lvl 4 (the skill "Learning" excluded).
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Alfons Richthofen
Caldari Die Luftwaffe
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Posted - 2009.11.15 20:56:00 -
[23]
Most new characters are forced to train learning skills to level 4 (tier 1 and 2) which eats up 950,000 SP before they train ANYTHING else. Soon after this the 2x training bonus ends making it seem like they train at the same speed (as 2x with no learning skills) and the 950m SP they just worked for made no difference.
Huge turn off for newer people, I've tried to get some friends to play but they don't want to spend their entire trial getting learning skills to 4 and sitting in an IBIS.
I'd like it if they started at 4, all of them, getting to 5 is optional completely. I'd finally be able to persuade some of my friends to play.
And for you ****s who think CCP doesn't need the extra players, they may not but we players sure as hell do. New players are rare now as most of them are really just alts. And I'm pretty sure they do as every patch they improve the newbie tutorials and interface explanations.
This is not a cry post, all my learning skills are trained. Although I would like to redistribute a million SP to another skill category.
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Quazal Atreides
Gallente Encarta Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.16 00:13:00 -
[24]
ok the only way i would look at this is simple..
can you learn to walk when your 2 years old then first thing you do is walk straight into a job as computer programmer, NOPE you need to learn things first. But before you learn how to program (or fly a BS) and for that you need to learn the basics, and in my opion the learning skills are these 'basics' that we learn in real life at school....and the better you do in school the faster you will be able to pick things up in real life (and yep i know this isn't always the case) but im sure you get my idea.
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Nico Terces
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Posted - 2009.11.16 13:00:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Nico Terces on 16/11/2009 13:03:59
Originally by: Quazal Atreides ok the only way i would look at this is simple..
can you learn to walk when your 2 years old then first thing you do is walk straight into a job as computer programmer, NOPE you need to learn things first. But before you learn how to program (or fly a BS) and for that you need to learn the basics, and in my opion the learning skills are these 'basics' that we learn in real life at school....and the better you do in school the faster you will be able to pick things up in real life (and yep i know this isn't always the case) but im sure you get my idea.
My character went to the Federation Navy Academy, so I assume my character learned something, even if she just learned how to learn.
Basic learningskills to lvl 4 are so elementary, that I doubt there's many in eve-online that do not get these skills. Respectively they do not add a lot to the game in the beginning, apart from getting skills quicker. You do not gain any gameplay value from training learningskills, and it's incredibly boring.
Advanced learningskills (Although still dirtcheap) are "expensive" and "Exotic" for new players because you have to earn them, more or less. Same goes for implants.
All basic learningskills (Bar Learning itself) standard to level 4 will let you train learningskills right off the bat if you want to, but it also gives a lot more room to train other skills while earning your isks for advanced learningskills. Basically it makes you bleed a little less as a new player, but on the whole scale of things it doesnt really leave an impact. It just makes the game more enjoyable.
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Limdood
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Posted - 2009.11.16 14:56:00 -
[26]
let try a reasoned post.
given the choice, i would choose NOT to give up my learning skills, even for double the amount of SP i invested in them.
I invested in them for a reason! i want faster training. i would not accept the free skill points in return for significantly slower training on everything from losing my learning skills.
if instead, you're proposing to boost everyone's attributes as you remove learning skills, then why? all you are doing with that is lowering training time across the board. If you want to compare this to WoW, it would be like saying "i want levels to take half as long." well....why? Blizzard would laugh at you! they WANT people playing thier game for a while. CCP is no different.
I reiterate, your post is asking for one of two things, both of which don't belong. Either you want to slow down the training of EVERYONE who learned any learning skills, by removing them and giving some piddly amount of instant SP, or you want to speed up overall training time by giving everyone the benefits of all learning skills to 5. Either way, i support neither of these options.
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Lord Cath
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Posted - 2009.11.16 15:44:00 -
[27]
let's not and say we did
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Corian Teranos
Critical Mass Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.16 22:24:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Corian Teranos on 16/11/2009 22:24:55 actually since almoast all new characters train their learning skills to max before even starting their main skill chain i think removing those skills completely and just giving the characters the extra 10 sp in the begining will save training time and remove a complete waste of time. although if ccp does impliment this i hope they will give the missing points to existing characters as well as new players
:Its all fun and games untill your logistics guy tries passive tanking his raven: |
Zorvoz
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.22 11:43:00 -
[29]
I have to say, as I have started many new characters, that the learning skills do not set a character back 1 month. If no cybernetics are plugged in, the current time to get a learning skill to level 3 is maybe 5 hours, and level 3 to level 4 takes 18 hours. Then advanced learning skills take less than a day to get to level 3. That's plenty enough for a new character. This being said, I do NOT support this thread as they are optional skills, which has been mentioned, and they do not set a character back more than a week to a week and a half to train to main4/adv3 stats. They still have 2 weeks remaining to train other skills to a good level, and get organized. I hope I do not come across this issue again, CCP did a good thing by making it a +100% training time multiplier for new characters.
Just a side note: With Cybernetics I and +3 Implants in right off the bat, a new character can have all of his starting skills to level 4 and be in a good position to get the advanced learning skills to level 4. Keep the skills as they are, no changes needed.
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Tomarix Vindigo
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Posted - 2009.11.22 16:28:00 -
[30]
Dumbest idea I read today. Learning skills are fine as they are. Patience is a key skill in eve. Those learning skills don't alter that a bit.
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