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DenShou
Gallente Allied Research Service Executive
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Posted - 2009.11.19 21:31:00 -
[1]
Edited by: DenShou on 19/11/2009 21:31:25 While I realize this is a fit for a drake, That is the ship I know best and have come to enjoy flying. So with my growth to a Tengu I was hoping to use something similar. While being as frugal as possible I have removed everything from my drake and have applied it to my Tengu and have kept my purchases to a minimum. My concern is the DPS without compromising my passive shield recharge. ( my catch 22 from flying a drake for so long )
With my current skills & using EFT,
DPS: 210 Volley: 1313 Effective HP: 47,915 Defense: 621 / ( 819 with Tech II rigs, need to train that skill up to 4 from 3 & if i'm willing to spend the isk ) Shield Recharge: 326 hp/s ( with Tech 1 rigs & not including leadership skills )
[TenguDrakeEdition] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
I have also been planning a active tank setup, that is on the back burner till I get this sorted. ~ #### Faith can move mountains.... of Inventory - Rule #104 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition |
quicktrader89
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Posted - 2009.11.19 21:52:00 -
[2]
no invuls or BCU? please tell me where you are so i can gank your t3 ship
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BuckStrider
Wreckless Abandon Minor Threat.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 21:56:00 -
[3]
Troll
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Wes Gunn
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Posted - 2009.11.19 22:01:00 -
[4]
DPS: 349 Defense: 985 (1195 with T2 Purgers lolwtf?)
[DrakeDrakeEdition] 7x HML II w/ CN Scourge, Small Tractor Beam 3x LSE II, 2x Invuln II, 1x Photon II 4x SPR II 5x Hobgoblin II 3x Purger Is
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eKuivocal
Shade. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:06:00 -
[5]
most likely troll, but 210 dps on a t3 is lawl
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N Ano
Caldari SoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:19:00 -
[6]
You have got to be ****ting me.. Make the Beership a reality! |
DenShou
Gallente Allied Research Service Executive
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Posted - 2009.11.19 23:53:00 -
[7]
@quicktrader89 I reside most of my time now in a class 2 WH, only leaving to sell wares and buy fuel your welcome to hunt me down. @Wes Gunn the only difference between this fit and my Drake is more Launchers & Drones. @eKuivocal I hear you, hense why I'm asking for help. @N Ano and yet I still like the beership idea.
As for anyone else this is a this is what I have thread, what can I do to keep my tank still effectivly passive, but also improve my DPS dramaticly.
~ #### Faith can move mountains.... of Inventory - Rule #104 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition |
Apathetic Brent
Every Villian is Lemons
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:05:00 -
[8]
posting to say that if this is for pvp(and your drake for that matter) you fail so hard at life its not funny.
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Nathan Wolfe
Caldari Axe Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:08:00 -
[9]
Please tell me your trolling. 210 DPS and 621 tank??? In case you're serious ... Lows- CN BCUx3, Grav Backup II Mids- ECCM Grav IIx2, CN EM/Invul/Boost Amp (1 each), Pithi A Medium Shield Booster Highs- HML II loaded with faction ammo Rigs- Medium CCC Ix3 Subsystems- Accelerated Ejection Bay, Dissolution Sequencer, Amplification Node, Gravitational Capacitor, Augmented Capacitor Reservoir. 700 tank with 600 dps and the added bonus of being unprobable.
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Future Mutant
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:32:00 -
[10]
Has to be a troll...
in case it is not let me congratulate you. you managed to get less tank and less dps then a drake at much more expense.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2009.11.20 00:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: DenShou Edited by: DenShou on 19/11/2009 23:54:14 While I realize this is a fit for a drake, That is the ship I know best and have come to enjoy flying. So with my growth to a Tengu I was hoping to use something similar. While being as frugal as possible I have removed everything from my drake and have applied it to my Tengu and have kept my purchases to a minimum. My concern is the DPS without compromising my passive shield recharge. ( my catch 22 from flying a drake for so long )
With my current skills & using EFT,
DPS: 210 Volley: 1313 Effective HP: 47,915 Defense: 621 / ( 819 with Tech II rigs, need to train that skill up to 4 from 3 & if i'm willing to spend the isk ) Shield Recharge: 326 hp/s ( with Tech 1 rigs & not including leadership skills )
[TenguDrakeEdition] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
I have also been planning a active tank setup, that is on the back burner till I get this sorted.
Okeh... That's one of the biggest failfits I've ever seen- you'd have trouble in a L4 witht hat setup!
Your DPS is pitiful, even by L3 standards - and your tanking concept is VERY WRONG. Go semi-passive, and switch to amplifiers if you know you're running into neuts - otherwise use active hardeners. Or a biister/boost amp setup - if you can fit a deadspace booster you can achieve a 900 DPS tank easily.
LOWS: BCUx3, PDU II ( use CN BCU or BCU II)
MIDS: (Full Passive) 2x MSE II (no CPU for LSE II with T2 launchers), 4x rat-specific hardener.
(Active) 1x booster (either deadspace small or medium - try to bet a Pithi-B minimum if you go small (450 DPS tank), or Corelium C-Type(650 DPS), or Pithium A-Type (800 DPS) 1x Shield Boost Amplifier (T2, faction, or deadspace) 3x rat-specific hardener
HIGHS: 6x HML (use CN or T2)
RIGS:
3x CDFP is fine for full passive or semi-active tank, use 3c CCC for active
Fior you subsystems:
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening (passive), Amplification Node (active) - both have same slots Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix - I use Augmented Cpaacitor Reservoir, myself Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers - I use Fuel Catalyst.
Can get to 420 DPS using T1 ammo with my skills, active with my skills gets a 900 DPS tank if I fit rat-specific, 450 DPS if I go omnitank (1x Photon Scattering Field II, 2x Inv Field II)
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DenShou
Gallente Allied Research Service Executive
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Posted - 2009.11.20 02:13:00 -
[12]
@ Arkeladin this fit is taking your advice, which is close to what I was going for.
So while yeah I'm going to be buying the shield booster, I'm pretty sure I have the points to buy the rest. When I get home, this will be my testing fit.
[Tengu, Vengful Edition] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
~ #### Faith can move mountains.... of Inventory - Rule #104 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition |
Arkeladin
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Posted - 2009.11.20 03:31:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Arkeladin on 20/11/2009 03:34:31
Originally by: DenShou @ Arkeladin this fit is taking your advice, which is close to what I was going for.
So while yeah I'm going to be buying the shield booster, I'm pretty sure I have the points to buy the rest. When I get home, this will be my testing fit.
[Tengu, Vengful Edition] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System // Ballistic Control System II
Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher,Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Propulsion - Gravitational Capacitor Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir
On that fit, you can lose one of the SBAs - you're a bit overtanked as it is. Use a hardener instead. With that setup, Im showing a potential tank of 943 DPS omni, with two CN Invulnerability and 1 Photon field. SERIOUSLY overtanked for L4s, good for a class 3 WH. If you went rat-specific it'd be an over 1K DPS tank.
Damage I show as 454 DPS with T1 Scourge - it would be considerably higher using faction or T2, if you fit 6 heavy T2 launchers.
Cap lasts for 5 mins with everything full-bore, is cap-stable at 78% with the booster shut off - you've got a good L4/wormhole setup for up to a Class 3.
Only thing is a Pithi A-Type Medium will set you back about a bil or so BY ITSELF - and will make you a target for any ganker with a ship scanner. That's one reason I recommended Corelium C-Type (650 DPS tank) or Pithi B-Type (450 DPS), which is plenty for most L4s with combined with a Damage Control II, or a PDU II. I'm just budget-minded that way
Considerable improvement, isn't it?
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Nathan Wolfe
Caldari Axe Gang
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:06:00 -
[14]
^ Some good points. If you're just running missions or class 2 you probably don't need the A type. But it's a ~700 million ISK ship that costs skill points if it goes boom so why skimp on the modules?
About the ship scanner equipped gankers I would counter that just seeing a T3/CNR/Golem on scanner will get you a likely gank visit. But you sacrifice a few slots for ECCM and you avoid the problem all together. They can't gank you if they can't find you. Now obviously if you're running sleeper sites they can still find the site but most gank squads only scan for ships or POS in WH space.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2009.11.21 00:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nathan Wolfe ^ Some good points. If you're just running missions or class 2 you probably don't need the A type. But it's a ~700 million ISK ship that costs skill points if it goes boom so why skimp on the modules?
About the ship scanner equipped gankers I would counter that just seeing a T3/CNR/Golem on scanner will get you a likely gank visit. But you sacrifice a few slots for ECCM and you avoid the problem all together. They can't gank you if they can't find you. Now obviously if you're running sleeper sites they can still find the site but most gank squads only scan for ships or POS in WH space.
To me, losing a subsystem skill levbel doesn't matter that much - you only lose 1 level, and since they're all Level 1 skills that's a seven-day train FROM ZERO - 4 days from 4 to 5 - it's not as big a deal as many people make it out to be. More painful is the ship itself - anyone without a ship scanner may leave a Tengu alone in hisec - with it's tank, it can survive long enough for CONCORD to show up unless you run into a gank fleet or are AFK and don't activate the hardeners. For lowsec/nullsec, I agree with you completely.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:07:00 -
[16]
quicktrader89 said "no invuls " Resistance doesn't always matter. I don't fit any on my passive shield tanked Proteus as it doesn't make any sense to boost resistance when you can boost HP regen by large amounts.
I don't like that Tengu setup but too many people seem to falsely think resistance is a must have.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.11.21 09:21:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Pottsey on 21/11/2009 09:24:30 [Tengu] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I
Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
Swap the two hardners based on rats.
or
[Tengu] Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Shield Recharger II Shield Recharger II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II
Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile Caldari Navy Heavy Missile Launcher, Thunderbolt Heavy Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Tengu Defensive - Supplemental Screening Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
swapped a subsystem as you had way to much spare cap. Now you have one more launcher and still enough cap. It might be possible with implants or faction gear to swap the Shield Recharger II for an invul field.
800+ DPS tank against serps more then enough. 928dps tank if you can fit an invul field. You could fit some T2 purgers then take off more tanking modules for other modules like target painter another damage mod. EDIT: Number based with passive tank implants. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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dolmant
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:36:00 -
[18]
Arkeladin - I use a passive myrm/drake in order to tank lvl 5's. the full passive fit is REQUIRED - i use a setup almost exactly like that and i GUARANTEE you CANNOT tank a lvl 5 (solo, that is) in this semi active fit. These capless fits are quite good.
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Johann Callasan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.21 17:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: dolmant Arkeladin - I use a passive myrm/drake in order to tank lvl 5's. the full passive fit is REQUIRED - i use a setup almost exactly like that and i GUARANTEE you CANNOT tank a lvl 5 (solo, that is) in this semi active fit. These capless fits are quite good.
Wasn't talking about l5s, either. I said "gool L4/C3 wormhole fit". Soloing most L5s in anythiung not passive is a exercise in futility - why I was NOT mentioning them.
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DenShou
Gallente Allied Research Service Executive
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Posted - 2009.11.24 03:28:00 -
[20]
Wow this thread went from a DenShou is a Troll thread, to some good material to work with.
I haven't had much time to play with this more as we are currently leaving our Class 2 hole and moving up to a Class 3.
@ Everyone Providing thoughts and fits. I do appreciate the assistance. I will look at this thread in more detail when I get the chance to sit down again. ~ #### Faith can move mountains.... of Inventory - Rule #104 Ferengi Rules of Acquisition |
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Minkert
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Posted - 2009.11.24 04:59:00 -
[21]
OP- Resists are your friend when it comes to tank #'s- Lose an SPR for a DC II and some of those shield rechargers (all if I were you) and add in two invul II's (No rat specific exist for WH spawns) and have a slot left over for something like a damp for those single Sleeper BS spawns in C2 WH's you run, or an AB to reduce missile/beam sleeper damage. You could, with those resists added in, feasibly remove 1-2 additional SPR from the lows to balance out your DPS with BCU II.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 07:34:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/11/2009 07:34:33 Minkert said "OP- Resists are your friend when it comes to tank #'s- Lose an SPR for a DC II " That is a bad move for the PvE setup as it makes your tank weaker. Like I said before resistance doesn't matter when you have high HP regen. Swapping HP regen for resistance in this case makes your tank weaker.
If you need cap use PDS as it gives more tank and frees up more cap then a DCII. DC II's are bad module to fit to passive tank PvE setups. I have never seen a case where a DCII was worth while.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Victor Valka
Caldari Preta Light Industries Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 07:57:00 -
[23]
[Tengu, Hi-sec Missions] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Gist C-Type Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Photon Scattering Field 10MN Afterburner II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Fury Heavy Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Engineering - Capacitor Regeneration Matrix Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Intercalated Nanofibers
1000+ defense, either way to stratch it, and 500+ DPS with good skills.
It's cap stable and goes ~500m/s, so go ****ing wild!
Juggle hardeners and boost amps as required for optimal defense, e.g. 3 hardeners and 1 amp or 2 hardeners and 2 amps.
You can use some cheaper mods without sacrificing too much of the performance, but remember - there's no kill like overkill!
Originally by: Spaztick You are not outnumbered, you are in a target-rich environment.
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Zaqar
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.11.24 09:44:00 -
[24]
Originally by: DenShou Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
True caldari
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Minkert
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Minkert on 24/11/2009 16:47:21
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 24/11/2009 07:34:33 Minkert said "OP- Resists are your friend when it comes to tank #'s- Lose an SPR for a DC II " That is a bad move for the PvE setup as it makes your tank weaker. Like I said before resistance doesn't matter when you have high HP regen. Swapping HP regen for resistance in this case makes your tank weaker.
If you need cap use PDS as it gives more tank and frees up more cap then a DCII. DC II's are bad module to fit to passive tank PvE setups. I have never seen a case where a DCII was worth while.
If you work on EFT to see the effective HP/ Passive tank- there is a efficiency curve you can see. As you add SPR or Shield Rechargers they are acting on a smaller effective amount of recharge, so each is naturally less effective than the previous. If i reduce something by 20%- 100-> 80 lets say, I reduce it by 20. Then I reduce 80 by 20%, 80->64, I reduce it by only 16. This natural effect means there is a balance between putting on resists and recharge when maxing the tank number.
Now it is my opinion that the mid slot rechargers should be the first to go because they are less efficient than the low slot SPR- but disregarding resists for recharge in not the "best" option just a personal preference.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:56:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 24/11/2009 07:34:33 Minkert said "OP- Resists are your friend when it comes to tank #'s- Lose an SPR for a DC II " That is a bad move for the PvE setup as it makes your tank weaker. Like I said before resistance doesn't matter when you have high HP regen. Swapping HP regen for resistance in this case makes your tank weaker.
If you need cap use PDS as it gives more tank and frees up more cap then a DCII. DC II's are bad module to fit to passive tank PvE setups. I have never seen a case where a DCII was worth while.
There's quite a lot wrong with this statement - won't get into it a lot, will just ask Pottsel if her's ever tanked Enemies Abound 5/5 on a pure regen setup, NO HARDENERS - considering that that missions can put out about 6-700 DPS if you kill the waves quickly enough, and over 3K DPS when you don't...and the max shield regen I've ever seen on any setup's about 145/sec, or equivalent of 143 DPS...
A good tank is a balance between how quickly you regenerate your tank vs the DPS coming in. Evem nore so for armor tankers that have a LONG delay between activating the repper and actually getting any repping done.
The more you can lessen your incoming DPS, the more likely it is that your tank can regen as fast or faster than the damage being done - and a DCU II can actually INCREASE tank, as it's not stacking-penalized with any other module, and takes it's part "off the top".
I'd especially like to see you do this with a Sanshas-based Enemies Abound, as with no hardeners you have ZERP resistance to EM damage - I'd bet that there'd be a few warpouts during that mission on a pure regen-based setup.
Hardeners have their place, as do passive resistance amps - which is what you'd want to use in L5s anyway.
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:39:00 -
[27]
Arkeladin said "and a DCU II can actually INCREASE tank, as it's not stacking-penalized with any other module, and takes it's part "off the top" A PDS or SPR are not stacking penalized and increase the tank more than a DCU II. So why fit a DCU II? All a DCUII does it lower your tank over a PDS or SPR. A PDS not only gives more tank but all the other advantages.
Minkert said " As you add SPR or Shield Rechargers they are acting on a smaller effective amount of recharge, so each is naturally less effective than the previous" No its the other way around. Each one gives more of a boost. Take an extreme example. The 7th SPR gives me 93 HP regen, 6th SPR gives me 71 HP regen 5th SPR gives me 54 HP regen
Arkeladin said said "I'd especially like to see you do this with a Sanshas-based Enemies Abound, as with no hardeners you have ZERP resistance to EM damage" I didnt say no hardeners all the time. I said when HP regen is high enough resistance is a bad idea. Boosting resistance with a DCU lowers your tank. I have never seen a passive tank with a higher tank due to a DCU. Yes hardeners do have a place but resistance is not always a good option. Like my Proteus which has zero resistance modules as resistance modules lower the tank.
Doubling your HP regen is the same as halving the incoming damage from resistance. A lot of people seem to forgot that. When you have high enough HP regen, resistance does not matter. Like the DCU the incomeing damage it lowers is not as good as the HP regen you get from other modules. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Pottsey on 24/11/2009 21:57:11 Arkeladin said " and the max shield regen I've ever seen on any setup's about 145/sec, or equivalent of 143 DPS..." That's 143 on EM and more on the rest. My Proteus has over 450 HP regen solo or a fair bit over 500 HP regen in a gang. My Domi is pretty similar. Factor in base resistance and your talking 1600DPS tank against serps without resistance modules with the Proteus. 1900DPS in a gang and well over 2500dps with a Vulture boosting.
Enemies Abound 5/5 is exp 48% / kin 25% with only 16% Em. I bet a lot of my HP regen only setups could tank that. Not that I am saying you should always go without resistance boosting. I am just saying don't overlook high HP regen and low resistance. Sometimes boosting HP regen is better then boosting resistance. Just because a ship has low resistance it does not mean it's bad.
Going from 50HP to 100HP regen is just as good as keeping 50HP regen but going from 0 to 50% resistance. Yet most people say 100HP regen with 0% resistant is bad. While 50HP regen with 50% resistance is good. When really both are the same.
______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
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Kenz Rider
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Posted - 2009.11.24 23:01:00 -
[29]
Don't think I've ever seen a passive setup that is better with a DC2 either. Usually it's 50 DPS less tank for DC2 vs SPR on my setups. We're talking about 600-900 DPS tanks.
Depending on the opposing damage type you can get significantly different hardener setups. For Angels, I would use 3x CN LSE, 1x Recharger and 2x Invuln; for Serpentis, I would go 3x CN LSE, 2x Therm fields and 1x Kin Field (although replacing 1x therm field with an invuln is likely better but depending on ship and skills you get cap issues). If it's a Drake, you don't care about sig radius, but if it's a cruiser hull, then you also need to consider that and you may drop an LSE for example and add a recharger.
The point is not really what the specific setup is, but that depending on the distribution of damage types and your skills, you can optimize your tank by using many different combinations of modules -- and this is the really crazy thing about passive or semi-passive shield tanking that there are so many good modules you can usually make meaningful improvements against a certain PvE opponent by making drastic changes to the tank, as opposed to armor where it's usually just switching out a hardener or three.
Since wormholes were brought up, one thing that should be considered is that while the damage is omni, the alpha is usually EM/EXP (missiles) and so a slight bias in that direction can be of benefit; but, sig radius should also be considered in that equation as smaller sigs have less to worry about from the missile damage. - - - -- - - - -- - - - -- - - - Little known fact: 95% of DS's signatures have nothing to do with EVE. |
Minkert
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Posted - 2009.11.25 01:31:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Pottsey
Minkert said " As you add SPR or Shield Rechargers they are acting on a smaller effective amount of recharge, so each is naturally less effective than the previous" No its the other way around. Each one gives more of a boost. Take an extreme example. The 7th SPR gives me 93 HP regen, 6th SPR gives me 71 HP regen 5th SPR gives me 54 HP regen
To use exact numbers- if you have a 1200 sec shield recharge on a ship with 1200 shield points and add on one SPR II- It reduces that recharge by 24%. The result should be 912s. A reduction of 288 sec of recharge. Or an improvement from 1hp/sec to 1.3157hp/sec. A second reduces it yet another 24%- to 693.12s. This is a reduction of 218.88 sec of recharge time. Or an improvement from the initial 1hp/sec->1.7313hp/sec. A third 24% , 526.77s- a reduction of 166.3488 sec. This is from initial 1hp/sec-> 2.2780hp/sec. And so on...
I was thinking about seconds reduced not the effect of HP/(regentime) * (reduction factor^#of sprs) Pottsey is right about the increasing regen effect.
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