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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Battle Tested
Shiva
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:54:00 -
[1021]
Originally by: Sertan Deras You know, I went and re-read Nozh's reply, and uhh, Nozh, it makes you look worse than the original dev blog did. It shows you don't even have a fleeting grasp on how we actually use these ships.
Here's a hint: No one target paints anything in a capital fight, making your graphs absolutely worthless. The only line on that graph that matters is "15 Fighter Bombers - Base/Siege", and it's barely 2700 DPS. My Revelation did 5200 DPS with max skills and faction gear. 2700 DPS was not unbalancing, it was not even out of the realm of normal, it was barely half of what a good Revelation will do. Especially when you consider that DPS is based on drones that have travel time and can be killed.
The Titan debacle is just hilarious. For months we've been told you DID have a role in mind for titans, as front line anti-capital, anti-structure fights. Now, suddenly, in your great wisdom, you have decided titans are now gigantic logistics ships, and SHOULDN'T have a lot of direct damage capability...but wait, you are going to release them with the turret buffs and capital death ray in tact anyway.
This whole thing is just a complete and total mess, and shows a level of incompetence and total break down of sane communication at CCP.
You shouldnt have stated the numbers on your revelation, Nozh is gonna ninja nerf it now |
Hakaru Ishiwara
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:55:00 -
[1022]
Originally by: Nyphur If they're using SCRUM metholody properly, they will be having regular meetings and discussions on game design changes before they're agreed upon and therefore before they get into devblogs. Frankly, I don't believe that's the case because someone would have twigged on that some of these changes were garbage or at least picked up on the obvious target painter mistake. CCP has hundreds of employees, a lot of whom play EVE. Surely at least one person working on the Dominion expansion actually plays EVE and takes part in the activities they're redesigning and balancing. They would certainly have spotted those mistakes had it been discussed with them.
What it sounds like to me is that Nohz has been given free reign on game design decisions on this expansion and he isn't consulting other people on it. He's already overriden other people's hard work on the issue such as the past month of work on capital balancing on Sisi. A lot of this stuff is subjective but some has obviously not been run by the other people working on the expansion or even current EVE players before being finalised. Siege torp changes relying on target painters? Docking motherships? Any player could see he's just grasping at straws with very little idea as to what the problem is. He needs to discuss these changes with people who actually play EVE and start taking on board the work already done by other developers.
Didn't you guys hire Seleene? Good god, go and ask him for input. You've run out of development time.
QFT and you, sir, are a genius.
More on SCRUM here.
I do not post the above to troll CCP. Rather, I expect CCP to professionally communicate to its client-base what took place in the context of the design, development and testing cycle(s). As well as what CCP will do to prevent this type of mess from happening again.
As easy a target as Nozh presents him or herself to be (truly, no other entity could paint a bigger bullseye on their own back than Nozh), CCP the company is responsible for this debacle. CCP the company needs to police its own and bring sanity back to the capital design and development life cycle.
This is the point where a true leader in CCP steps up and takes charge of this [now] one-way dialog.
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Brobuck
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:55:00 -
[1023]
Originally by: The Mittani
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
It looks to me like a bad case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Just because you are new to the position doesn't mean you have to discard all the progress that was made prior to your arrival. Just looking at the response of the membership here should give you some small glimpse at the obviously enormous amount of pushback. CCP has often stated that they want to be responsive to player feedback, what is the justification for planting your heads in the sand on this one?
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CaptFlemming
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:56:00 -
[1024]
Edited by: CaptFlemming on 20/11/2009 16:56:12 Nozh, i just wanted to say, you have a really firm grasp on what is going on out there. Keep up the goon work.
٩๏̯͡๏)۶
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Overlord Anubis
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:56:00 -
[1025]
giant roids, letĘs make it less profitable for high end miners. Large roids that spawn everyday will saturate the market with mega and zyd. What is the lure for miners in null sec when that happens? Next Ice miners sorry we are screwing you over via all the alliances no longer needing all that fuel.
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Sertan Deras
Gallente Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:56:00 -
[1026]
Originally by: Battle Tested
Originally by: Sertan Deras You know, I went and re-read Nozh's reply, and uhh, Nozh, it makes you look worse than the original dev blog did. It shows you don't even have a fleeting grasp on how we actually use these ships.
Here's a hint: No one target paints anything in a capital fight, making your graphs absolutely worthless. The only line on that graph that matters is "15 Fighter Bombers - Base/Siege", and it's barely 2700 DPS. My Revelation did 5200 DPS with max skills and faction gear. 2700 DPS was not unbalancing, it was not even out of the realm of normal, it was barely half of what a good Revelation will do. Especially when you consider that DPS is based on drones that have travel time and can be killed.
The Titan debacle is just hilarious. For months we've been told you DID have a role in mind for titans, as front line anti-capital, anti-structure fights. Now, suddenly, in your great wisdom, you have decided titans are now gigantic logistics ships, and SHOULDN'T have a lot of direct damage capability...but wait, you are going to release them with the turret buffs and capital death ray in tact anyway.
This whole thing is just a complete and total mess, and shows a level of incompetence and total break down of sane communication at CCP.
You shouldnt have stated the numbers on your revelation, Nozh is gonna ninja nerf it now
Don't care. I sniffed out months ago that CCP was going to hamfist the entire capital/super capital side of this patch, and put the wheels in motion to sell my maxed out capital pilot. I sold him for a damn good price the day before this dev blog hit, which is great, because capital character prices are going to tank hard after this mess.
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RogueMind
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:57:00 -
[1027]
I've honestly never seen every alliance in nullsec combine together as one like this. CCP, do we have your attention yet? -- Opinions are my own.
Torp Nerfing: A thousand BS Campers cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced...
EVE Trinity: The first game where Vista pwned XP. |
Will Hunter
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:57:00 -
[1028]
Originally by: Tor Vanderwal Quoting The Mittani
"He completely ignores the big issue here, which is that the community and the dev team worked together to achieve a supercapital reform package that was broadly popular and exciting.
For no reason - none has been provided - Nozh showed up and threw all the playerbase's work with Abathur out the window."
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Tyby
tr0pa de elite Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:58:00 -
[1029]
Edited by: Tyby on 20/11/2009 16:58:59 so, log on test server, spend hours/days testing.... we do not care about your conclusions anyway! it's our game, we can do whatever we like with it! now get out from your basements, and go drink a beer and meet a nice girl....
p.s. don't forget to pay the monthly subscription, tho
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The Medusa
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:58:00 -
[1030]
Edited by: The Medusa on 20/11/2009 16:59:30 I guess the minmatar titan, evasive man gang links and halo implants just became useful.
Hey Nozh!!! :condi:
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:59:00 -
[1031]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 20/11/2009 16:58:50
Originally by: Tappits
Not him. HE looks nothing like nore does he sound anything like the real one.
I hear this is closer:
Nozh ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Major Roy
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:00:00 -
[1032]
I recommend u give the current DD to MS !
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Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:01:00 -
[1033]
Originally by: RogueMind I've honestly never seen every alliance in nullsec combine together as one like this. CCP, do we have your attention yet?
it's not even that... there was a PERFECTLY buffed MS on SISI. A True capkiller that would strike fear into capship pilots when they'd come on.
The ship was balanced. The titans were perfect. the nag was usable. the Phoenix... well, anyway as I was saying....
Things were GREAT.
Titans and MSs would destroy dreads and carriers, but the titans couldn't alpha the MSs. The MSs in turn could put the hurt on titans.
And for some reason, it didn't make cute graphs. So it had to be nerfed.
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Angel HUN
Destructive Influence IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:01:00 -
[1034]
Edited by: Angel HUN on 20/11/2009 17:02:07 So far CCP has had a Dev with 0 credibility undo broadly popular changes. Why is it that this same Dev is the one trying to reason with the community. It is amazing how someone who started with no credibility apparently expects to be heard in a reasonable manner.
Lose the graph jockey. The graphs do nothing for his credibility, and honestly are a liability.
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T'Karr
Minmatar Quam Singulari
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:01:00 -
[1035]
At the end of the day, we dont like what you are proposing Nozh... we prefered Abathurs, and we tested it, and we liked it. We had a lot of fun with it. And we all wished this fun would finally be introduced full time to the game. Now you have scrapped it all and have decided to introduce some stupid ideas, with some equally stupid grpahs.
The community dont like what you are proposing. Put Abathurs ideas back into motion and lets get the best expansion to date FINISHED AND DONE WITH ABATHURS IDEAS.
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Ralph42nd
Gallente Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:02:00 -
[1036]
Hey wait ... when did ccp buy failblog?
Fire CCP Nozh-Nothing About Eve
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Sidus Sarmiang
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:02:00 -
[1037]
All your graphs tell me is that if we're ganking a lone dreadnaught or two and someone brought along target painters for some reason we'd do a lot of damage under your changes. That's pretty nice I guess I sure am glad I spent 18 billion on mine. In a real fight we'd be worth half a dread though, that's kinda sad.
Anyways a brief summary of the changes so far.
Step 1: We have a good idea. Step 2: Test good idea. Step 3: dfgdgfdhhdfgsdgderhgggbubbbfguydrtgr Step 4: Write a blog about it
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Ka'lorn Font'a
Amarr Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:02:00 -
[1038]
Originally by: The Mittani Edited by: The Mittani on 20/11/2009 16:41:57 You have not addressed the issues of the community at all. For weeks, the Abathur version of motherships was tested; feedback was given from players and listened to by the devs. Broad consensus was achieved.
You have not provided a single rationale for abandoning the efforts of hundreds of players working in concert with Abathur and the other devs on the supercapital reform project.
Why is this being done? Why are you even here? Where is your credibility? You offer us 'fixes' for problems which do not exist.
The Abathur version of the supercapitals was the only one that was created with the input and feedback of players. That is what should be reverted to, and you remove yourself from the capital dev portfolio entirely.
Posting to agree with Mittani... Again.
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Commander Tigre
Minmatar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:03:00 -
[1039]
Originally by: Sertan Deras So Titans don't have a defined role, but you are still going to release them with their incredibly powerful buffs, yet completely ignore motherships for another six months. Why not just release the incredibly powerful buffs to motherships until they have a defined role? The logic doesn't even begin to make sense.
GIVE THE MOTHERSHIP THE HP BUFF!! It will not make it superpowered, it will make it VIABLE!
Quote: Also, if Dreadnoughts can no longer shoot battleships effectively, I expect battleships to no longer be able to shoot cruisers effectively. If the most expensive ships in the game aren't allowed to defend themselves from a smaller ship class, than the mentality should go all the way down the ship tree.
I predict capital ships to be lost left and right to small battleship blobs now because capitals cannot properly defend themselves against the smaller ship classes (other than with drones). "We Choose to listen to the lies we don't want to hear. The truth is, you're already dead." |
Amra Khanii
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:08:00 -
[1040]
So, how about those pesky ninja salvagers, huh?
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:09:00 -
[1041]
Edited by: Vyktor Abyss on 20/11/2009 17:11:08
Disclaimer: I've never flown a Capital ship (despite having the skills) but have been in Cap Ship fights.
I do feel that with the new Titan Superweapons though, doesn't this make Motherships relatively too vulnerable without some large boost to HP?
Whats the salvage like on a Mothership anyway? I'm glad you've delayed the proposed changes - I hope you now actually plan to make them mobile base style "Motherships" rather than "Super-carriers". Always plenty of good ideas in the ideas forum for them, Cheers.
Other than that I like the new "Short range" balancing. I hope that the DPS advantage of Short Range Sieged is enough compared to Long Ranged Seiged to make it worthwhile.
I see lots of flames for you here Nozh, I know it comes with the job, but I hope you dont get to blinkered in your own way of thinking (like you did with all the Gallente changes past! ), because some of the players will probably know better than you the reality of using these ships from day to day experience. (But not me, so meh...)
Thanks for the blog anyway.
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Akay Quinn
Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:09:00 -
[1042]
Why is the answer to "Capital ships cant be Target painted so the new Phoenix weapons wont do max Damage" a set of graphs of Fighter-Bombers against a phoenix... with Targetpainters used that couldn't be used against it in siege?
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Shigsy
Ignition.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:09:00 -
[1043]
Seeing as MoMs arent getting any changes can we stop calling them ****ing super carriers now?
Join "C&P" ingame! |
Agmar
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:10:00 -
[1044]
Originally by: CCP Nozh Let's see...
Out of curiosity, have you ever PLAYED this game?
If so, have you ever played in 0.0? Because, of these changes, it certainly seems like you're just changing things to prove that you can change them. That philosophy is working out GREAT for Obama.
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Tea Spoon
Gallente Baptism oF Fire Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:11:00 -
[1045]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Dreadnoughts and Carriers have the ability to enter Siege mode / Triage mode; both modules vastly increase your tanking and in this case the amount of damage they receive. Thus the large explosion radius scales the damage dealt to capital ships.
This sentence makes no sense to me however many times I read it. How does activating a siege/triage module increase the damage received as it provides immunity from the Target Painters needed to take full damage from certain weapons ?
If English is not your native language and have problems expressing a point in it there must be someone there to help you communicate. |
Stora's Lemming
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:12:00 -
[1046]
all i think that surly its wrong to have a 18Bisk worth of ship to be able to die in 2 shots!
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Aethrwolf
Caldari Podrratu
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:12:00 -
[1047]
Originally by: Aethrwolf I gotta ask.. is he from the southern USA? as in * trolling remark removed - CCP Ildoge?
well, gonna restrain from replacing what was removed FOR THE MOMENT. Just gonna point out that while the sentence containing the snipped phrase WAS deliberately offensive, it was the part you DIDN'T remove that made the rest offensive, otherwise it was just a hillbilly/redneck joke, and since I are one, I can make those jokes and not be considered a bigot. pitiful, just pitiful. I wont go on cause that would be discussing moderation which is not allowed.
lets see, you want constructive criticism at the least.. since you ideas seem to not jibe with ours.. DEFINE CONSTRUCTIVE!
I know why you have links with China now.. you adopted their ruling style. Don't earn the name CCCP, please Absolutely everything is subjective. |
Vincent Gaines
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:13:00 -
[1048]
Originally by: T'Karr
HAHAHA epic.... so true. It worked on the test server, so it can work on TQ...
The last time I played around on SISI was after the nerf. I don't have anywhere near super capship skills and yet was able to hold off I believe, 3, motherships after I dropped into siege for a good 6-7 minutes.
I'm sure it'll work great on TQ as it is. Thank god I have no interest in doing any sort of capship fighting right now.
getting alpha'd by a titan death ray was fun though.
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Hockenheim
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:13:00 -
[1049]
Nozh, change race please, don't dishonour Caldari
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Dianabolic
Reikoku
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:13:00 -
[1050]
Originally by: The Mittani I don't even log into eve-online, a game about spaceships, and yet I know that you can't target paint supercaps or sieged dreads.
I also know, despite not being a player, that cap fights often take place within ridiculously short range.
Welp, this makes next week's column an easy topic. "New CCP vs Old CCP," something about how the older class of 'dev who doesn't know anything about the game' is managing to force out the newer, former-player devs with actual experience.
I wish to quote this post for ironic effect.
Now, where's my msn...
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