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ZergRushJohnny
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:23:00 -
[1]
Two fold question.
1) Is there any way to stop someone from seeing what's in your cargo hold. I've had people tell me to use GSC's so that all they will see when your scanned is the GSC and not whats inside. But others tell me that it doesn't matter, a scan shows everything inside the GSC too. Another theory is to trade courier contracts back and forth with an alt and double shrink wrap whatever it is your moving (courier contract a courier contract). They will see through the first one, but not the second.
Is there any truth to any of this? Or any other way? I'm sure this question has been asked a lot, but I keep getting conflicting info so I'm just trying to clear it up.
2) How much should I worry about high sec ganks? I'm not carrying anything horribly valuable, maybe a few hundred mil ISK (compared to a 2.5bil ISK lose on a gank I've seen). Even so I get nervous when I undock and get locked. I've stacked my highs in my itty 5 with shield extenders. I don't have time to sit in front of a computer 24/7 though so I do use autopilot a lot, I know nowhere is safe and I accept these risks. I just wonder if the extenders would be enough to stop a gank, if CONCORD would kill them in time. How much of a tank would I need?
I'm also about to get into a Freighter. Those things seem to have massive HP, I can't imagine anyone being able to suicide gank one in high sec before concord killed them. Does this ever happen? Is it possible to gank a Freighter?
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Moordab Kersh
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:32:00 -
[2]
Did we just see a surge in the use of locator agents?
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ZergRushJohnny
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:37:00 -
[3]
My ship costs less than 20mil ISK, my current cargo is less than 30mil ISK. If someone uses a locator to track me down and gank me in high sec for less than 50mil profit after destroyed items, and a loss of (however much a gank ship costs) to concord then they really need to take marketing 101, I doubt there can be a profit in that, other than greifing, but I have almost 2bil in ISK and assets, so you won't get any tears from me over that kill :P
Anyway, question still stands.
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.22 19:38:00 -
[4]
Iteron Mark V + autopilot + a few hundred million ISK = it's a wonder you haven't been ganked yet. Your tank most likely sucks, a few shield extenders will not save you when you're an Iteron Mark V (these go in midslots btw, not hislots).
Freighters can be suicide-ganked, it has happened many times before. But if you're hauling anything under 1-2b most people won't bother, so you will be safe as long as you're hauling things under 1b in a Freighter. Get into one ASAP or you will lose an Itty V (especially if this is your main, as people will now be looking for you). _________________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
ZergRushJohnny
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Posted - 2009.11.22 20:17:00 -
[5]
Edited by: ZergRushJohnny on 22/11/2009 20:18:09 Mids, sorry, donno why I said highs. I'd agree the tank does suck, but one only needs to hold out long enough for CONCORD to kill the ganker. If you say that's not enough though then I'll believe you, had the feeling it wasn't enough anyway.
From my understanding someone will only gank you if there is the possibility to make ISK from it, so
if (your value - destroyed value) - Gank value = profit, then gank!
Easiest way to avoid this would then be to carry less than a gank ship is worth right? Anyone care to enlighten me on how much one of these would cost?
Still haven't heard anything on hiding cargo....
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Veilag
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Posted - 2009.11.22 20:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: ZergRushJohnny From my understanding someone will only gank you if there is the possibility to make ISK from it, so
Wrong. People will gank you because they can.
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Dr Lebroi
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Posted - 2009.11.22 21:27:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Veilag
Originally by: ZergRushJohnny From my understanding someone will only gank you if there is the possibility to make ISK from it, so
Wrong. People will gank you because they can.
Exactly - kids don't make a profit from smashing milk bottles or throwing stones through the windows of old factories - they just love the sound of things smashing. It's always a mistake to assume that the rest of Eve is as logical and methodical as you are - it often costs me isk to blow things up but that's the price of entertainment!
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.22 21:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: ZergRushJohnny Edited by: ZergRushJohnny on 22/11/2009 20:18:09 Mids, sorry, donno why I said highs. I'd agree the tank does suck, but one only needs to hold out long enough for CONCORD to kill the ganker. If you say that's not enough though then I'll believe you, had the feeling it wasn't enough anyway.
From my understanding someone will only gank you if there is the possibility to make ISK from it, so
if (your value - destroyed value) - Gank value = profit, then gank!
Easiest way to avoid this would then be to carry less than a gank ship is worth right? Anyone care to enlighten me on how much one of these would cost?
Still haven't heard anything on hiding cargo....
You may be able to hide them in freight containers, not sure. Test it with a friend or something (courier contract).
The ships cost less to nothing, you can't insure yourself from suicide ganking no matter what. But if you carry very little most people don't bother to suicide gank you.
Anyway, it's a wonder you haven't been ganked yet - get a Freighter ASAP and use that for your AFK'ing business. _________________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
ZergRushJohnny
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Posted - 2009.11.22 22:01:00 -
[9]
Fair enough, I stand corrected. Could I safely assume that -more- people gank for ISK than for fun? Thus my chances of getting ganked are -less- if I run with less ISK in my cargohold than a gank ship is worth?
As I said before "I know nowhere is safe and I accept these risks." I may be a carebear, but I'd like to think that at least I'm not one of those whiny ones that *****es about getting blown up in highsec where "I should have been safe". I'm just trying to figure things out from the other side of the rifle so to speak, so I'll know how to keep myself safe.
I can never remove the fact that some people will spend a few mil ISK to blow me up for 0 profit, there is no planning for that. The only thing I can do there is fit a tank that will help me survive until the police arrive. Apparently an Itty 5 tank won't help. I don't suppose someone would care to share a gank ship fit with me (evemail it to me if you want), so I can run some figures on it, see how much DPS it does and what it costs?
In the end I can't plan for everything, just trying to get more info so I can be better prepaired.
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Shikagi Sitami
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Posted - 2009.11.22 22:01:00 -
[10]
Extenders and plates or resistance amplifiers will give your ship that narrow margin that may save your bacon, or not.
99.9% of gankers are just throw-away alts (an exploit, BTW, that can be reported but will likely result in nothing at all) and they're set up to push out as much DPS as they can in the 7-12 seconds it takes for CONCORD to respond. If you can set your ship up to survive a single BC for that long (not difficult) then you'll very likely survive even on autopilot. Not many gankers have two or three BC on hand at one gate to finish you off.
Know your route and don't autopilot if you need to go through those systems (Niarja, ect). Off the main trade routes gankers are more rare but not unheard of.
And if you've got the ISK you should look for a slave implant set... I've hauled my freighter through three attempted ganks on those alone, though the pain was always considerable.
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ZergRushJohnny
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Posted - 2009.11.22 22:13:00 -
[11]
I'll look into the slaves, thanks for the other info
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Yougottapurdymouth
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Posted - 2009.11.23 03:39:00 -
[12]
i'm also interested in this topic. i dont do a lot of trading but i have an officer mod to pick up from jita. while the mod isn't really all that pricey (500m) i'm still apprehensive about making all those jumps with that in my cargo hold. my plan was to just fit a BS with a full 1600mm plate setup and do a warp to 0 the whole time. but maybe that's overkill. i'd appreciate any suggestions. (maybe go down to a BC but definitely not any smaller...) thanks.
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Suas
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.23 04:56:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Yougottapurdymouth i'm also interested in this topic. i dont do a lot of trading but i have an officer mod to pick up from jita. while the mod isn't really all that pricey (500m) i'm still apprehensive about making all those jumps with that in my cargo hold. my plan was to just fit a BS with a full 1600mm plate setup and do a warp to 0 the whole time. but maybe that's overkill. i'd appreciate any suggestions. (maybe go down to a BC but definitely not any smaller...) thanks.
Just shield tank and agi fit something BC size or bigger. No one will suicide you and you won't take 15s aligning for every gate.
Most people would just take it out in a small frig, but then you run the risk of getting ganked by Smartbombing BS. _________________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. PREPARE TO DIE! |
Don Pellegrino
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.23 13:43:00 -
[14]
If you can fly an Iteron Mark 5, you can fly an Occator.
Just use an Occator, you will have almost the same cargo and nobody is going to try to gank you, unless they are organized and have 3 ships ready to gank you.
It's possible to gank a freighter, but you need about 20-24 battleships and only very expensive stuff is in danger. And anyway, it's extremely rare that people have that many ships ready for you.
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oolk
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Posted - 2009.11.23 13:59:00 -
[15]
Their ships are insured,so dont think they would hesitate 1 sec.
Their losses are way smaller than you seem to think.
Use an orca corporate hangar to haul expensive stuff you dont want anyone to see...put some worthless crap in the std hold for all to see.
Easy.
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Gabriel Rosencrantz
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Posted - 2009.11.23 15:48:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Gabriel Rosencrantz on 23/11/2009 15:53:52 You've got the right idea Z. Its all about keeping the value of the cargo below the threshold of profitiability of ganking. That said, there's no accounting for thrill kills, and there's nothing that can stop them. It doesn't matter what you're fittings are, they'll just make sure they have enough ships to kill you. Sometimes pirates are compared to naughty children; they're not. For the most part, they are businessmen who've thought it through and who practice it regularly.
You have the formula pretty much correct: (Cargo Value-(ship values-insurance))/#attackers = per attacker profit
Yes, a freighter has way more HP. But they can be and are ganked regularly in hisec. It takes approx. 10-12 battleships in a .5 or .6 system (e.g. Uedama, Niarja). To answer your other questions: you can't put a courier package inside another courier package. You CAN put a courier package in an item exchange contract IF the items inside the courier contract are NOT in a can of any kind (GSC, GFC, etc). If it does have cans inside, you will get a "container within a container" error. You can not hide the contents of your cargo hold from a ship scanner. The one exception is to put something inside a ship and then place that ship inside an Orca's ship bay.
Cloaky haulers (blockade runners) are good for losec/nosec and running really really valuable, but not too bulky, cargo. The most dangerous times in hisec will be the undock, because you have to get clear of the station to cloak. Insta-warp offs handle that problem.
When you get your freighter, I hope you'll consider joining Red Frog Freight. |
ZergRushJohnny
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Posted - 2009.11.23 16:51:00 -
[17]
Thanks for the continued advice. I am working towards blockade runners (Transport Ships), but I'm still lacking a few fittings here and there.
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malfoy
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Posted - 2009.11.23 17:26:00 -
[18]
Edited by: malfoy on 23/11/2009 17:28:51
Originally by: oolk Their ships are insured,so dont think they would hesitate 1 sec.
Their losses are way smaller than you seem to think.
Use an orca corporate hangar to haul expensive stuff you dont want anyone to see...put some worthless crap in the std hold for all to see.
Easy.
make some insurance third party only.
edit: bad citizens dont get fully comp.
its not what eve is about really tho is it.
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Maya Silverman
Universal Mayhem
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:18:00 -
[19]
If you do highsec hauling, use a Orca and put the stuff in the corp hangar. That way no one can see it and it doesn't drop if you would lose the orca. And suicideganking a orca will take considerably more firepower than killing an itty 5.
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Concubinia Scarlett
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ZergRushJohnny I've stacked my highs in my itty 5 with shield extenders.
Er... Really? F'kin awesome dude
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Scrwloose
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:46:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Gabriel Rosencrantz You can not hide the contents of your cargo hold from a ship scanner. The one exception is to put something inside a ship and then place that ship inside an Orca's ship bay.
Except you can't put a ship in the Orca's Maint bay with anything but charges (ammo) in it's own cargo, afaik...
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Gabriel Rosencrantz
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Posted - 2009.11.25 18:41:00 -
[22]
Well, now that you mention, Scrw, I'm not sure what would happen. You can put stuff in the hold of a ship and put that ship in a courier contract. But I'm NOT sure whether you can then put it in the maintenance bay. I'll check with some corp mates who have an Orca. Perhaps we can perform a test for a conclusive answer. |
Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.11.25 21:14:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Lt Forge on 25/11/2009 21:14:56 OK, let's keep this plain and simple: Step 1 - Put your stuff in GSCs and put those in your ship Step 2 - Give them all passwords (note: Only you and you only may know the passwords or else you get the whole Totally Spies issue)(note2: Stop whining about the "What if he scans my GSC???11/!" bullpoop) Step 3 - Retrofit your ship with shield tank. And now for the action: Step 4 - Get ganked. Step 5 - Either he/they lose theirs or you lose your ship. Step 6 - They can't grab out of the passworded cans! Yes, there is a chance they will be destroyed too, but be at least glad they don't have it. Step 7 - ??? Step 8 - PROFIT!
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Locin WeEda
Gallente Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.11.25 21:17:00 -
[24]
Only ships go into the Orca's maintenance bay, courier packages would go into either the personal space (which can be scanned), or the corp hangar (which to my knowledge, can not be scanned). Red Frog Freight Service
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.25 21:19:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Lt Forge Edited by: Lt Forge on 25/11/2009 21:14:56 OK, let's keep this plain and simple: Step 1 - Put your stuff in GSCs and put those in your ship Step 2 - Give them all passwords (note: Only you and you only may know the passwords or else you get the whole Totally Spies issue)(note2: Stop whining about the "What if he scans my GSC???11/!" bullpoop) Step 3 - Retrofit your ship with shield tank. And now for the action: Step 4 - Get ganked. Step 5 - Either he/they lose theirs or you lose your ship. Step 6 - They can't grab out of the passworded cans! Yes, there is a chance they will be destroyed too, but be at least glad they don't have it. Step 7 - ??? Step 8 - PROFIT!
If I recall correctly, if it isn't anchored, the password is meaningless.
Also, one can always scoop a container and re-package it, and all the goodies fall out like a loot Pinata.
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waxx25
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Posted - 2009.11.25 22:31:00 -
[26]
Edited by: waxx25 on 25/11/2009 22:31:58
Originally by: Yougottapurdymouth i'm also interested in this topic. i dont do a lot of trading but i have an officer mod to pick up from jita. while the mod isn't really all that pricey (500m) i'm still apprehensive about making all those jumps with that in my cargo hold. my plan was to just fit a BS with a full 1600mm plate setup and do a warp to 0 the whole time. but maybe that's overkill. i'd appreciate any suggestions. (maybe go down to a BC but definitely not any smaller...) thanks.
comon guy, a bs o bc o transport one mod?, it takes maybe 50m/3 space max? get an inty and stick it in there, if you cant fly it then get a t1 frig and do it....hard to lock fast moving and not scanned a lot, ont make it sound to complicated, when i move faction bs bpc or core a type hardeners (yes multiple at a time) i get into a fast ship, i also like cloaky cov ops with expanders on for the extra feeling of safety, DO NOT use big heavey and SLOW ships to move expensive items man, really i thought it would be common sense
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Marcus Riegn
Blue Team
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Posted - 2009.11.25 22:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Veilag
Originally by: ZergRushJohnny From my understanding someone will only gank you if there is the possibility to make ISK from it, so
Wrong. People will gank you because they can.
wait wait, we can elaborate on this, People will gank you if you draw attention to yourself.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.11.26 03:00:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Originally by: Lt Forge Edited by: Lt Forge on 25/11/2009 21:14:56 OK, let's keep this plain and simple: Step 1 - Put your stuff in GSCs and put those in your ship Step 2 - Give them all passwords (note: Only you and you only may know the passwords or else you get the whole Totally Spies issue)(note2: Stop whining about the "What if he scans my GSC???11/!" bullpoop) Step 3 - Retrofit your ship with shield tank. And now for the action: Step 4 - Get ganked. Step 5 - Either he/they lose theirs or you lose your ship. Step 6 - They can't grab out of the passworded cans! Yes, there is a chance they will be destroyed too, but be at least glad they don't have it. Step 7 - ??? Step 8 - PROFIT!
If I recall correctly, if it isn't anchored, the password is meaningless.
Also, one can always scoop a container and re-package it, and all the goodies fall out like a loot Pinata.
Correct GSC passwords only come into effect when anchored.
GSCs can be scanned and can drop loot if your ship pops - it's exactly the same chance as any other cargo dropping.
Here are a few things that do work: Get a Blockade Runner for smaller amounts of expensive stuff, up to 10k m3.
Use a CovOps or a Force Recon for even smaller, more expensive things.
Use Insta-undocks to get you out of the station safely.
Tank up an Orca for relatively large amounts of stuff - you can get well over 200k EHP out of an Orca with combined shield/structure tank. The corp hangar is safe from scanning and items won't drop - if you do get ganked though, the stuff in the corp hangar is guaranteed gone.
Freighters are good for large amounts of relatively inexpensive stuff. Sooner or later though, someone will pop you just for laughs.
Use a scout and have an in-corp friend/alt web your freighter/orca into a quick warp at gates. (must be same player corp or the webber gets CONCORD attention rather quick).
DON'T autopilot when you have expensive stuff on-board.
______________________ Agony Unleashed is proud to support TeaDaze for CSM |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.26 10:14:00 -
[29]
The whole OP post, including his habits, are a warm invitation to be suicide ganked.
Quote:
From my understanding someone will only gank you if there is the possibility to make ISK from it, so
if (your value - destroyed value) - Gank value = profit, then gank!
Wrong.
It's
(your value - destroyed value) - minimal standing loss - 2/3 faction ammo and some T1 mods + fun at tears milking = profit
Wrong 2: hoping to tank an indy enough. It only works if the ganker is too cheap to use those 2-3 rounds of faction ammo or he did not find a spot so he has to gamble against Concord and try it in > 0.6 sec systems. - Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Lightningshade
Caldari The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2009.11.26 10:28:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shikagi Sitami Extenders and plates or resistance amplifiers will give your ship that narrow margin that may save your bacon, or not.
99.9% of gankers are just throw-away alts (an exploit, BTW, that can be reported but will likely result in nothing at all) and they're set up to push out as much DPS as they can in the 7-12 seconds it takes for CONCORD to respond. If you can set your ship up to survive a single BC for that long (not difficult) then you'll very likely survive even on autopilot. Not many gankers have two or three BC on hand at one gate to finish you off.
Know your route and don't autopilot if you need to go through those systems (Niarja, ect). Off the main trade routes gankers are more rare but not unheard of.
And if you've got the ISK you should look for a slave implant set... I've hauled my freighter through three attempted ganks on those alone, though the pain was always considerable.
99.9% use throwaway alts? Wheres your proof to back this up? Also - if his cargo is worth enough - theres no reason why gankers wouldn't throw 4/5 ships at something juicy - in my experience
Last thing - is this your fritter toon?
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