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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:19:00 -
[31]
Rokh is a good ship. Just 'cause it doesn't outdo the raven at hurrdurr level fours doesn't mean it's a junk ship.
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Berendas
Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:12:00 -
[32]
Originally by: MADDOGzors For all you rokh haters
rokh > all
I knew it was only a matter of time until Maddog came to the defense of the Rokh
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:32:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Diomidis
Originally by: Malcanis When everyone else in your sniper BS fleet is whining about getting bombed by Hounds, the guy in the Rokh is sat at 30% shields and saying "what's all the shouting about...?"
Well, against a co-ordinated SB attack no BS can survive...yes, rokh still gets a crazy EHP compared to other fleet fits but SBs launch more things than a bomb...
If the bombers want to stick around and launch torps, that's fine. They'll get butchered. Maximum bomb alpha is 10 bombs @ 8000 each, which a Rokh can trivially easily endure, especially if they're explosive bombs.
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Kendon Riddick
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Diomidis
Originally by: Malcanis When everyone else in your sniper BS fleet is whining about getting bombed by Hounds, the guy in the Rokh is sat at 30% shields and saying "what's all the shouting about...?"
Well, against a co-ordinated SB attack no BS can survive...yes, rokh still gets a crazy EHP compared to other fleet fits but SBs launch more things than a bomb...
If the bombers want to stick around and launch torps, that's fine. They'll get butchered. Maximum bomb alpha is 10 bombs @ 8000 each, which a Rokh can trivially easily endure, especially if they're explosive bombs.
you have never been heavily bombed then....
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:12:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Kendon Rid****
If the bombers want to stick around and launch torps, that's fine. They'll get butchered. Maximum bomb alpha is 10 bombs @ 8000 each, which a Rokh can trivially easily endure, especially if they're explosive bombs.
you have never been heavily bombed then....
I've only ever been bombed when I had some Zealots, Munins and such like in attendance. Any bomber that stayed uncloaked for more than 3 seconds was instapopped.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:52:00 -
[36]
5/10, the hilarious misinformation and stupid nerf suggestion is good, but could've used a reference to WoW and possibly a suggested lolfit.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.11.25 02:50:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington 5/10, the hilarious misinformation and stupid nerf suggestion is good, but could've used a reference to WoW and possibly a suggested lolfit.
Agreed.
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
Drakarin
Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.11.25 03:05:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Berendas Rokh is essentially tied with Abaddon as the best 1v1 battleship. I don't call that utterly useless.
1v1 doesn't exist in EvE.
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Evilan Altana
State War Academy
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Posted - 2009.11.25 03:41:00 -
[39]
Originally by: ddooxx IT'S UTTERLY USELESS is a bit too harsh. It has two uses:
Mining - it can slightly out mine a Retriever mining barge (4.1.2 in the Mining Guide) Insurance fraud
There is even synergy - mining in an Insurance fraud ship reduces the downside if you get ganked.
It is just not meant to be used for fighting. :-)
I want to clear up this misconception. A Rokh doesnt just barely out mine a Retriever it just barely outmines a Covetor. Yes it requires a caldari navy co processor but with that you can fit a Rokh so that with max skills it will out mine a Covetor just barely. When I say just barely I'm talking 1m3 but still. Stop these vile lies, the Rokh is better than the covetor.
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Allaera
Caldari Star Phukkers Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.11.25 06:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington 5/10, the hilarious misinformation and stupid nerf suggestion is good, but could've used a reference to WoW and possibly a suggested lolfit.
WoW....errr....ummm....
Meanwhile, elsewhere
[Rokh, BEST ROKH EVER] Overdrive Injector System II Reinforced Bulkheads II Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II Armor EM Hardener I
Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Large Hull Repairer I Medium Shield Extender II Large Shield Booster II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Basic Miner Large Proton Smartbomb II Prototype Cloaking Device I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Large Salvage Tackle II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Particle Dispersion Projector II
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Mike712
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Posted - 2009.11.25 11:36:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Mike712 on 25/11/2009 11:36:46
Originally by: Allaera
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington 5/10, the hilarious misinformation and stupid nerf suggestion is good, but could've used a reference to WoW and possibly a suggested lolfit.
WoW....errr....ummm....
Meanwhile, elsewhere
[Rokh, BEST ROKH EVER] Overdrive Injector System II Reinforced Bulkheads II Damage Control II Large Armor Repairer II Armor EM Hardener I
Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Large Hull Repairer I Medium Shield Extender II Large Shield Booster II 100MN MicroWarpdrive II
800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, EMP L Mega Pulse Laser II, Multifrequency L 425mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge L Basic Miner Large Proton Smartbomb II Prototype Cloaking Device I Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile
Large Salvage Tackle II Large Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Large Particle Dispersion Projector II
These sort of fits actually exist in droves, It's why the rokh has such a bad rep...
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=8066156
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=8328780
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=6449516
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=5600944
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=3728775
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=3658306
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=3100550
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=3088794
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=3060599
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Arrador
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Posted - 2009.11.25 14:05:00 -
[42]
Blaster Rokh is great on a gate camp.
Sniper Rokh can alpha over-confident inties/small/cloaky ships who like to taunt at 200km away from a station.
I would love to seem small buffs to the caldari hybrid platforms. Especially the ferox and Rokh. We need more PG on the ships. Fitting 250mm's on the ferox leaves us with 70pg left. We can't even fit a full rack of 425mms without a power diag or implants - even with AWU lvl 5.
I understand there are to be trade off's between fitting the biggest guns + tank. But we can't even fit the biggest guns :(
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Mister LEM0NS
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Posted - 2009.11.25 15:09:00 -
[43]
CURSE ALL OF YOU AND YOUR LOGIC! Now im convinced that all the rokh needs is one more medium slot. 6 doesnt seem to be enough. But that extra drone capability would still be nice
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King Dave
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Posted - 2009.11.25 17:39:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ap0ll0n
Not really. Hybrids have dual 250¦s, 350¦s and 425¦s, lasers got Dual heavy, mega and tachyon.
Wrong, Tachyon's are considered larger than all other types of large guns. Mega beams are meant to be compared to 1400mm and 425mm.
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Perfection Tau
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Posted - 2009.11.25 19:14:00 -
[45]
It tanks several DD and shoots far, what's not to like?
The only disadvantage I can think of is that fleets are normally armor based therefore having guardians / oneiroses.
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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.11.25 19:28:00 -
[46]
At those ranges, tanks are completely preferential and optional. Most rokh pilots go for a single LSE and maybe a DCU.
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Karl Luckner
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:09:00 -
[47]
What's wromg with Rokh ? Well, it's outclassed by it's direct competitor the Apoc. Nothing else. I guess the OP had more PvE in mind, here the highlights of suckiness are the small cap and dronebay + inflexible damagetypes. Oh yeah, and tracking of large hybrids in combination with lack of space for tracking mods.
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Galen Draz
Caldari Rollo Skull Mullet's THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:10:00 -
[48]
Almost 3 years ago, Jinn Eleuter started to kill things solo in a blaster rokh... one of the first blaster rokh pilots in the game. loved that ship ever since. ( and hated myself for training gallente ships at that time ) Also, Jinn start playing Eve again!!!
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.11.25 20:55:00 -
[49]
Rokh doesn't get a weapon damage bonus - so if you're NOT sniping, you can fit it any way you like.
- 8x Neutron Blaster Cannon II with NULL (if you're using antimatter, you're better off in a Gallente BS). - 4x Torps + 4x Neuts (Phoon does it better but if you don't have Minmatar BS then here's an option). - 8x Heavy Neutron Blaster II (Medium sized) - you lose 100 dps, and gain far superior tracking. - 8x Dual Heavy Pulse Laser II - 671 gun dps @ 14+7.5km and 535 gun dps with scorch at 41+7.5
- 8x 800mm AC II - 640 dps @ 3+20km and 556 dps @ 6+30km - you don't need a cap booster, so you free a midslot for even more tank. MWD + Point and you'll still have ~150,000 EHP.
- 8x Smartbombs.
- Also a good tough logistics boat with shield RR.
- 8x Neuts - tank will suffer a little due to 2x cap boosters.
I'm Terrible:)
BDEAL Wants YOU |
Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2009.11.25 22:04:00 -
[50]
For a fleet BS, you probably shouldnt use the Rokh. Use a Mega instead, you will be much happier.
For fun blaster gate camp lolz - ya a Rokh is great.
In a fleet a Sniper Rokh isnt terrible, however it will most likely get popped first especially regarding the rep (as its shields and most BS gangs are armor).
Its extra range never gets used b/c the mainstay of BS fleets is the Mega. Therefore the optimal tends to be between 150 km's to 170 km's - therefore the extra range of the Rokh doesnt get used...there's not really much point tbh.
Boost it? I suppose it could use a small boost, but how Im not sure, as its main bonus is range related. I agree that Caldari Hybrid boats do need a boost overall.
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Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge Important Internet Spaceship League
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:15:00 -
[51]
To people who think the extra range ona rokh is wasted - try using faction lead or iridium and reach 150km.
Better damage, better cap, and no tracking penalty. That's a huge advantage of the rokh.
If your argument is don't us it because most fleets are armor tanked - then you might want to find friends that do rr shields. I've done it and its extremely effective.
I'm Terrible:)
BDEAL Wants YOU |
loony thezoon
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:31:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Berendas Rokh is essentially tied with Abaddon as the best 1v1 battleship. I don't call that utterly useless.
as if that ever happens
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Bomberlocks
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.11.26 23:59:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Omarvelous To people who think the extra range ona rokh is wasted - try using faction lead or iridium and reach 150km.
Better damage, better cap, and no tracking penalty. That's a huge advantage of the rokh.
If your argument is don't us it because most fleets are armor tanked - then you might want to find friends that do rr shields. I've done it and its extremely effective.
This one thing I've never really grasped in Eve. In the alliance tourney, at least a third of the fleets are shield tankers fleets, with a scimitar and repper drones for logistics, and they often do very well indeed. I know that the alliance tourny doesn't map to PvP in eve due to all the restrictions, but a purely shield tanking RR or logistic supported rokh fleet should be able to do quite well against armour buffer tanked, fleets, shouldn't they, given the extreme hp that a rokh can carry. Or is that just day dreaming?
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Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2009.11.27 00:44:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Bomberlocks
Originally by: Omarvelous To people who think the extra range ona rokh is wasted - try using faction lead or iridium and reach 150km.
Better damage, better cap, and no tracking penalty. That's a huge advantage of the rokh.
If your argument is don't us it because most fleets are armor tanked - then you might want to find friends that do rr shields. I've done it and its extremely effective.
This one thing I've never really grasped in Eve. In the alliance tourney, at least a third of the fleets are shield tankers fleets, with a scimitar and repper drones for logistics, and they often do very well indeed. I know that the alliance tourny doesn't map to PvP in eve due to all the restrictions, but a purely shield tanking RR or logistic supported rokh fleet should be able to do quite well against armour buffer tanked, fleets, shouldn't they, given the extreme hp that a rokh can carry. Or is that just day dreaming?
They do just fine. I think what most ppl have said is that the majority of alliances request RR Armor BS and logistics. I would guess that is because there are more BS's that armor tank as opposed to shield tank. Therefore you would most likely get more to turn out to a fleet if you request armor RR BS.
There may also be an argument that Armor tanking requires less SP than shield tanking. Havent run the numbers tbh, Im just thinking out loud on that one...which usually isnt a good idea in EVE forums lol
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NEMO XAR
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Posted - 2009.11.27 00:54:00 -
[55]
The Rokh is the tier 3 Caldari Battle Ship! It should be tougher then the Raven. I think an Option of 8 Cruise missile launchers and an accurate hit rate would do fine! I have all large weapons trained to the same levels and sometimes fit the Rokh and Maelstrom as fallows with 2 Cruise launchers, 2 425mm rail guns, 2 1400mm Artillery and 2 Tachyon beams all of the meta 4 lvl and the rail guns which are for the Rokh fall way behind in dealing damage! I have had the beams and Artillery deal 1500+ damage to the NPC's with 2 of the weapons per. grouping! The Cruise Launchers do well at just under 800 damage and never miss, however the rails do only 200 - 600 per set or less! That Sucks! I only fit these weapons as a mix to test the weapons side by side in lvl 4 missions! According to the math 8 Cruise missile launchers on the Rokh would still be lower volley damage then a Golem.
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Cosmic Rainbow
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Posted - 2009.11.27 04:00:00 -
[56]
Originally by: NEMO XAR The Rokh is the tier 3 Caldari Battle Ship! It should be tougher then the Raven. I think an Option of 8 Cruise missile launchers and an accurate hit rate would do fine! I have all large weapons trained to the same levels and sometimes fit the Rokh and Maelstrom as fallows with 2 Cruise launchers, 2 425mm rail guns, 2 1400mm Artillery and 2 Tachyon beams all of the meta 4 lvl and the rail guns which are for the Rokh fall way behind in dealing damage! I have had the beams and Artillery deal 1500+ damage to the NPC's with 2 of the weapons per. grouping! The Cruise Launchers do well at just under 800 damage and never miss, however the rails do only 200 - 600 per set or less! That Sucks! I only fit these weapons as a mix to test the weapons side by side in lvl 4 missions! According to the math 8 Cruise missile launchers on the Rokh would still be lower volley damage then a Golem.
So then you would like to see a boost to rails?
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Merbusent
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Posted - 2009.11.27 11:11:00 -
[57]
Dont you like tanking hundreds of thousands of dps's im seriously considering doing that and breaking to faction wars because of maelstrom.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.11.27 11:33:00 -
[58]
Originally by: NEMO XAR The Rokh is the tier 3 Caldari Battle Ship! It should be tougher then the Raven.
It is. Also you're an idiot.
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Mona X
Caldari Polish Task Forces C0VEN
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Posted - 2009.11.27 11:43:00 -
[59]
I will concentrate on sniper rokh.
Originally by: Jintai san
The problem the Rokh is facing currently is that fleet battles on the BS level is so dominated by armor tankers that every competent FC will primary the Rokhs first because he knows that Rokhs wont have the logistical support that the Apocs and Megas has.
Yeah, right, it's better to shoot ship that is dealing weakest damage, have best tank and probably sits so far from you, that maybe only half of your fleet can even target him, and half of those can hit him. I wish all our enemies were so competent.
Originally by: Karl Luckner Yeah, Rokh unfortunately sucks. Could be a passable sniper, but suffers from shieldtanking.
Originally by: Perfection Tau
The only disadvantage I can think of is that fleets are normally armor based therefore having guardians / oneiroses.
OK, people, what is wrong with you? In fleet battles, shield is far better than armor. Just warp out and it's tepairs itself. You don't have to sit outside POS shield waiting for someone to rep you, and risk being bombed. Or you could just turn around and return to battle imediatelly, chnches are that you're out of targeting queue, so you're gonna deal some more damage (while your tank still repairs itself), before they will primary you again.
Oh, and Rokhs are more egile and faster than those trimarked and plated bricks.
Originally by: Perfection Tau It tanks several DD and shoots far, what's not to like?
First will be obsolete in 4 days and only megathron won't be doing the latter.
Originally by: Jintai san
the Rokh is designed to be able to hit at max range but this never happens because the rest of the fleet simply can't shoot that far exept for maybe the apocalypse.
No no no. You have your own engines, you can navigate further form the main blob. This will not only give you range tank, but also may protect form bombers.
What is wrong with rokh is not the rokh, but his weapon. Lasers shoots with capacitor, projectiles shoots with ammo, hybrids shoots with both. Both ships with t2 MWDs: Apoc with 1 heat sink deals 2100 alpha and 260 dps at a cost of 30.8 GJ per second (7 x 4.4 GJ) from 7781 GJ capacitor. Rokh with 2 magstabs deals 1600 alpha and 285 dps at a cost of 32 GJ per second (8 x 4GJ) from 6225 GJ capacitor. Dps looks better, but only for first 40 shots, after that Rokh have to reload, while Apoc can shoot.
So, worse effect, at higher cost, from worse capacitor (cost is even higher). And to add insult to the injury, you spend also ammo. Lots of it.
When I have joined Eve I was told that railguns are weakest turrets but they can shoot farthest. Sure. But now rails will need special bonused ship only to maintain their only andvatage. Well, there would be advantage if not Projectiles. But in dominion Projectiles will get boost both to damage and range (fallof exactly). That would make 3 snipers with extreme (220-250) range and leave Magathron as 150-180km pariah.
Originally by: Cosmic Rainbow
So then you would like to see a boost to rails?
YES. They need reduction in cap consumption at least by half and they need bigger optimal. 10-12km on 425s should be okish. It wiil let stay megathron competitive and rokh will stay ahead of herd.
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kyrv
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Posted - 2009.11.27 12:27:00 -
[60]
I think the point of teir two battleship is swamped by Bureaucracy there slow behemoths of the battleship world with no idea of tackleing or range like its named a blooming Rokh for heavens sake.
wiki: "a lump or mass of hard consolidated mineral matter; "he threw a rock at me"
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