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Thoraemond
Minmatar Far Ranger
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Posted - 2009.12.05 11:36:00 -
[301]
Edited by: Thoraemond on 05/12/2009 11:40:32 Edit: Accidentally left out a word.
Originally by: Davramm [D]ozens of things about my fund [...] make it look like a scam.
I realize it's not a revelation this far into the thread, but quoting that for the humour value.
Originally by: Davramm [M]anaging the total size of my fund is the most important aspect of maintaining my desired returns.
Just to be clear, your position is that you prefer to generate a higher rate of return than a higher absolute return? Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, morally speaking, but it's certainly not a position that is shared by all traders or issuers. á á
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Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.05 12:00:00 -
[302]
Originally by: Thoraemond Just to be clear, your position is that you prefer to generate a higher rate of return than a higher absolute return? Of course, there's nothing wrong with that, morally speaking, but it's certainly not a position that is shared by all traders or issuers.
Two important factors here. 1) For Davramm, there is the workload associated with larger funds vs the income he gets personally. 2) For me as an investor, there's the risk aspect. This is a high risk investment. I therefore prefer to get a high ROI from a small investment than the other way around. In other words, he is doing the investors that do risk their money a favour by limiting the circus.
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Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.05 18:27:00 -
[303]
Edited by: Davramm on 05/12/2009 18:28:16 I wanted to clarify my plan for the near future.
I am not closing down my fund, I am merely reducing its size. I am going to withdraw 15 billion isk of my own money (when my account hits 25 billion). The total amount of investment money in my fund will also have to reduce so that I stay within my criteria of a 30%+ share.
And my fund is not closed to new investors, it was merely closed yesterday. As I make profits, and transfer fees to my account, my personal account grows in proportion to the other accounts, and my total amount of allowable invested isk increases.
New Eden Trading |
Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:42:00 -
[304]
1,000,000 shares available
New Eden Trading |
Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:21:00 -
[305]
Originally by: Davramm 1,000,000 shares available
Well, it seems I was entirely misreading the website and the messages I received from Davramm.
My apologies to Thoraemond, and I shall stop flaunting my version of what is going on here. ----------------------------------------
Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.06 06:35:00 -
[306]
I am withdrawing 5.5 billion isk from my personal account (instead of the planned 15 billion). I will be calculating the fund tonight, and paritally cashing out some accounts to bring the fund into my ownership criteria (minimum 30% in my name)
New Eden Trading |
Rachaeld
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Posted - 2009.12.06 10:44:00 -
[307]
hi i am looking to buy in to it but fire i wood like to no 1 how do u work 2 do u got a ingame channel 3 do u got a website
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Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.06 18:41:00 -
[308]
Originally by: Rachaeld hi i am looking to buy in to it but fire i wood like to no 1 how do u work 2 do u got a ingame channel 3 do u got a website
My website is on post 1, yes I have a channel. If you have any more questions about how I work after reading the faq just ask me ingame. I am closed to new investors for a week or so though.
New Eden Trading |
Carine Parnasse
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Posted - 2009.12.07 00:15:00 -
[309]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega ... [] He has no life
Bots would explain a lot on why he doesn't want anyone "looking at his books".
I dont know, if he simply has no life it wouldnt put any of us off investing, and he'd still get the epeen of being a super-internet-spaceships buisiness mogul.
Originally by: Cista2 I have a hard time seeing how closing down the venture can be perceived as a sales technique at this point? If a person steps forward and claims they have been invited to deposit money today, or in the next week, then you will have a point. Tbh I don't see that happening.
Well, simply put, lowering investment is what a responsible fund manager who actually has to make the returns would do. So we all think "He must really be that good, ill chuck in a bill at the first chance I get."
I still either think this is a scam or he is playing from inside a mental asylum, since with his returns he cut out the need for investment 2 days in, and now is simply begging this board on his knees for the chance to work for tens of hours to throw his money away. If it really is just charity Davramm, just trade with your own money and send me 70% of your profit, and ill happily admit you are a financial savant.
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Tigerras
Smash Box Blue
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Posted - 2009.12.07 01:36:00 -
[310]
I would like some clarity on one issue. Yesterday or the day before you announced that you would be reducing your investment, and would need to also draw down some of the outside investment, but then a few hours later you increased the number of shares advertised as for sale in this post. I appreciate that it is now listed as closed to new investment, but what was the reasoning behind increasing the available shares for sale from 300k to 1 million.
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Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.07 01:48:00 -
[311]
At that moment, i was very low on liquid cash, so I issued new shares, some days I do more buying than selling, or more selling then buying. When I issued the shares I controled about 34% in my personal account and around 3% with my corps account, so after issuing those shares I was still in criteria. Now when I reached my target of 30b isk I was going to commence the downsizing (my plan was to buy a 15b isk character.
But I found a deal on a character that suited my needs, for a lot less isk, so I did it now.
To summarize: I have completed my purchase and updated my site accordingly. I issued shares to help alleviate a cash shortage (cash is how I make my daily profits), I am currently under criteria on my personal share, and am cashing out parts of accounts as fast as I can (using some of my incoming cash to pay out shares, some to continue investing to keep profits rolling in).
I am not begging for investments, I am just creating awareness of my fund, and increasing my investor base. The more investors I have, the more cash I have access to when i need it. Next time I need 2 billion isk for the day, it will take less time to get investors. I have turned away more isk from this forum then I have accepted.
Why do I take investors: Lets say I have 5b isk, and I pull in 10%. My personal profits would be 500m isk. Now if I determine that I could have made more isk off the same transactions if they had been larger, then I could have just as easily invested more isk with the same amount of work. Now lets add 5b isk from investors: i make 500m from my 5b, and the investors make 500m from theirs (from which I take 150m) With no extra work, I have just increased my profits by 150m (30%) for the day. I am already using my investor system for my corp mates, so the spreadsheet is already built. Taking in new investors is no extra work for me.
New Eden Trading |
Rachaeld
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Posted - 2009.12.07 21:19:00 -
[312]
hi i am looking to get in to New Eden Trading can i tell me what it is and how do i join it so i can do isk
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Tigerras
Smash Box Blue
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:49:00 -
[313]
Was sent a message today stating that this fund is closing. Some thoughts:
1. I was planning on cashing out after the share price was updated tonight, so this is a turn of events that has no impact on my opinion.
2. The statistical data is represented in misleading ways, and in the time i have watched the fund, the 14-day ROI has consistently dropped. At its current rate (cash doubling every 12 days or so) it is not worth the advanced risk it poses as an unsecured investment.
3. It seems to be a too-good to be true investment, and largely it was. It is true that my balance grew slowly every day, but not to the point of the "tripling every 14 days" that was essentially advertised by the projected returns. With the fees involved, over 7 days I made 13m isk profit. That is less than 2% ROI per day. While higher than any other fund on market, it's cash I could have used in liquid form for a couple of recent purchases, where being able to buy in bulk would have saved me 15m isk. So, not worth the opportunity cost for me.
Not trying to bash, but I find feedback on investments is valuable for future investments. My share price never went below my investment value and I did net 13m off of this investment.
-Tig
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Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:59:00 -
[314]
Originally by: Tigerras Was sent a message today stating that this fund is closing.
Same here. RL commitments is cited as the issue.
I have received my 200 mil back plus 61 mil in interest.
Thanks Davramm o/ ----------------------------------------
Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:00:00 -
[315]
Edited by: Davramm on 10/12/2009 21:03:11 For the last week I have been very busy with some real life committments.
I apologize to my most recent investors who probably didnt earn a lot of growth, but anyone that was with me for more then 10 days earned a very fair ROI.
Next time I get some free time, I will speak to each of my existing investors, starting with oldest to newest, and if I dont fill my available investment I will post on this forum.
New Eden Trading |
Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:14:00 -
[316]
Another failed investment where the operator somehow thinks the failure gives him credit for the next try. It doesn't. If you can't see a busy rl coming a week in advance, who's gonna trust you next time you promise huge returns over a long stretch of time?
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SetrakDark
Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:21:00 -
[317]
Ponzi down.
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Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:23:00 -
[318]
Originally by: Estel Arador Another failed investment where the operator somehow thinks the failure gives him credit for the next try. It doesn't. If you can't see a busy rl coming a week in advance, who's gonna trust you next time you promise huge returns over a long stretch of time?
I will, and I don't consider a 30 % ROI from a, what, 10-12 day investment a failure exactly. ----------------------------------------
Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:27:00 -
[319]
Originally by: Estel Arador Another failed investment where the operator somehow thinks the failure gives him credit for the next try. It doesn't. If you can't see a busy rl coming a week in advance, who's gonna trust you next time you promise huge returns over a long stretch of time?
I set my own schedule, and will be able to set aside time to invest.
this fund was not a failure, on nov 29 the share price was 1200, and I am paying out people at 1936 today, dec 10
1936-1200=736-30% fee = 515.2 isk per share profit which is 42.9% profits over 11 days
If you think that 42.9% over 11 days is a failure, well.... enough said I think.
New Eden Trading |
cosmoray
Bella Vista Holdings Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:28:00 -
[320]
OK I invested 250M on December 3rd 2009.
When I looked at the website, my initial return projection after 14 days was over 500M (which is in line with the advertising about the uniqueness of the project).
Every day I checked the data, and the return was dropping.
Today I get an e-mail about cash out, etc...
My return after 7 days is 277M, way below advertised (assuming legit). After paying RAW23 the 275M (he forwarded my 250M, and I paid interest), I made a nice 2M in 1 week profit. At least I didn't lose.
My thinking.
I assumed this was a Ponzi scheme and I would be OK if I invested first and cashed out quick. I was hoping no one else would invest as this was a SCAM experiment. If it was Ponzi I cash out and win, if a SCAM I threw 250M to prove a point.
What I think is as bad as a SCAM is folding the business about 2 weeks after making the huge advertising effort and multiple posts, also the returns never neared what was advertised.
Another failed business. I won't be investing again.
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Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:34:00 -
[321]
Originally by: cosmoray OK I invested 250M on December 3rd 2009.
When I looked at the website, my initial return projection after 14 days was over 500M (which is in line with the advertising about the uniqueness of the project).
Every day I checked the data, and the return was dropping.
Today I get an e-mail about cash out, etc...
My return after 7 days is 277M, way below advertised (assuming legit). After paying RAW23 the 275M (he forwarded my 250M, and I paid interest), I made a nice 2M in 1 week profit. At least I didn't lose.
My thinking.
I assumed this was a Ponzi scheme and I would be OK if I invested first and cashed out quick. I was hoping no one else would invest as this was a SCAM experiment. If it was Ponzi I cash out and win, if a SCAM I threw 250M to prove a point.
What I think is as bad as a SCAM is folding the business about 2 weeks after making the huge advertising effort and multiple posts, also the returns never neared what was advertised.
Another failed business. I won't be investing again.
if it was a scam, any idiot would have played along with your little game, and kept the profits going until after your cash out time.
New Eden Trading |
Dretzle Omega
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:37:00 -
[322]
Originally by: Davramm
Originally by: cosmoray What I think is as bad as a SCAM is folding the business about 2 weeks after making the huge advertising effort and multiple posts, also the returns never neared what was advertised.
Another failed business. I won't be investing again.
if it was a scam, any idiot would have played along with your little game, and kept the profits going until after your cash out time.
What's ironic is that you continue making it look like a scam, though quite possibly honest, but in either case not invest-worthy, as cosmo and others pointed out.
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Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:43:00 -
[323]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega
Originally by: Davramm
Originally by: cosmoray What I think is as bad as a SCAM is folding the business about 2 weeks after making the huge advertising effort and multiple posts, also the returns never neared what was advertised.
Another failed business. I won't be investing again.
if it was a scam, any idiot would have played along with your little game, and kept the profits going until after your cash out time.
What's ironic is that you continue making it look like a scam, though quite possibly honest, but in either case not invest-worthy, as cosmo and others pointed out.
That is true, people who are negative and angry do post much more then people what are happy and reasonable
New Eden Trading |
Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:50:00 -
[324]
Originally by: Dretzle Omega What's ironic is that you continue making it look like a scam, though quite possibly honest, but in either case not invest-worthy, as cosmo and others pointed out.
Not invest-worthy? Now that it doesn't look so much like a scam anymore, the whole quire of saints is here to bash the interest rates? Lmao!
All you smart people who did not invest when you had the opportunity, but bashed those who did on page after page after page - please enlighten me, in which other MD offer should I have invested at the time I did to get the interest I did (30 % in 12 days)?
Please, called it risky all you like, call it a scam and call me stupid again, but... the interest rate in this was humungous. ----------------------------------------
Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:57:00 -
[325]
Edited by: Estel Arador on 10/12/2009 21:58:01
Originally by: Cista2 Not invest-worthy? Now that it doesn't look so much like a scam anymore, the whole quire of saints is here to bash the interest rates? Lmao!
It still looks like a scam and the next "investment opportunity" will also look like a scam, only even more suspicious since it will refer to this failed one (framed as hugely successful, of course).
Sure you got paid, but it's common for scammers to pay out a little to reap the big rewards later.
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Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:04:00 -
[326]
If I do issue new shares, they will be offered to my existing investors first, some who have been with me since october. I estimate the odds of me offering shares on this forum again to be close to nil.
New Eden Trading |
Coconut Joe
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:08:00 -
[327]
Originally by: Estel Arador Edited by: Estel Arador on 10/12/2009 21:58:01
Originally by: Cista2 Not invest-worthy? Now that it doesn't look so much like a scam anymore, the whole quire of saints is here to bash the interest rates? Lmao!
It still looks like a scam and the next "investment opportunity" will also look like a scam, only even more suspicious since it will refer to this failed one (framed as hugely successful, of course).
Sure you got paid, but it's common for scammers to pay out a little to reap the big rewards later.
Hello Estel Arador, are you able to make investment decisions using data on a potential investee's past actions is you disregard this type of data?
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Cista2
Jita Direct Sale
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:12:00 -
[328]
Originally by: Estel Arador It still looks like a scam and the next "investment opportunity" will also look like a scam, only even more suspicious since it will refer to this failed one (framed as hugely successful, of course).
Hey, I am not arguing against that at all But what I see in the posts above are people that did not have the co*ones to invest in November when it was most risky and most lucrative, and now are trying to make it look like those that did - e.g. myself and Ji Sama - did not make a fat paycheck on the chance we took. Well, sorry, we did.
We invested based on our personal intuition, and it paid off in this round. I am interested to hear what Ji made from this actually... ----------------------------------------
Buy / sell Jidsale shares here |
Estel Arador
Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:19:00 -
[329]
Originally by: Coconut Joe Hello Estel Arador, are you able to make investment decisions using data on a potential investee's past actions is you disregard this type of data?
If "this type of data" refers to self-reported and unconfirmed claims, you can't make a reliable investments decision, no (unless you count not investing as an investment decision).
At this point an audit would still be useful to confirm that Davramm did what he claims he did.
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Davramm
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:22:00 -
[330]
Originally by: Estel Arador
Originally by: Coconut Joe Hello Estel Arador, are you able to make investment decisions using data on a potential investee's past actions is you disregard this type of data?
If "this type of data" refers to self-reported and unconfirmed claims, you can't make a reliable investments decision, no (unless you count not investing as an investment decision).
At this point an audit would still be useful to confirm that Davramm did what he claims he did.
I must say, It blows my mind how people are unable to understand or retain information in this forum.
Anyone who thinks at this time (and has read this thread) that I am interested in being audited or taking on new investors is misleading themselves
New Eden Trading |
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