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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.11.29 19:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Xercodo on 29/11/2009 20:05:19 Edited by: Xercodo on 29/11/2009 20:02:28
Many times ppl have suggested that CCP add in a ship that would ease the pain of having to transport large numbers of large rigged ships from one side of the universe to the other.
After some discussion, a group of guys have figured out the specifics of how such a ship can work
- It's going to be a T2 freighter
- The coloring of these freighter will be the alternate T2 version of that race (like the difference between a Abso and a Damnation)
- Will only have a Ship Maintenance Bay, no normal cargo
- Able to fly through high and low sec like any other freighter
- The Ship Maintenance Bay it will have 10,000,000 m¦ maximum
- This size will be large enough to hold 20 rigged teir 3 battleships (20 maelstroms, hyperions, rokhs, or abaddons)
- This size is small enough that you can't fit a carrier, dred, another freighter, or jump freighter in the cargo
- Cannot jettison or have ships stored in space
- Requirements to build will be the same as that of a jump freighter(in terms of POS structures needed, not materials)
- Possible skill requirements can be:
- (Primary)Racial Freighters level 4
- (Secondary)Ship Transport Freighters level 1 (working name)
- The requirements for the new "Ship Transport Freighters" skill can be:
- Advanced Spaceship Command level 4
- Transport Ships level 4
- Bonuses can be like that of a jump freighter:
- Racial Freighter Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to agility per level
- Ship Transport Freighters Skill Bonus: 10% bonus to shield, armor and hull hitpoints
Also, we are considering implementing different sized bays like what CCP was planing for Carriers so that we dont get 500 frigates being transported and lagging everyone s***less when the freighter pops
-or-
Use a new kind of cargo can that magically crams a rigged ship into it so rigged ships can be carried by normal freighters and scrap the whole idea
-or-
Use a flat rate "20 ships only" rules applied
And to deal with non-ship items we are consider a few options as well, Small standard cargo space (maybe 10k m¦?, freighter-in-space rules apply), or special new cargo containers that can be put into the Ship Maintenance Bay? (limited to one can so we dont get ppl using these like super freighters), or making special rules for these ships that allow ship to keep their fittings and allow only ammo in their cargo
Feel free to suggest names or modifications to the skill requirement or names for the "Ship Transport Freighters" skill or even the size of the bay, maybe 20 battleships is too many...idk
Let's get this thing finally taken care of ^^ |
Killmeded
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Posted - 2009.11.29 19:57:00 -
[2]
One addition to this idea is to limit the frighter to 10 of the ship containers -- each ship container would hold 1 bs or 2 bc or 3 cruisers or 4 dest or 5 frig along with this a 10-20k cargo bay for ammo, fitting, etc
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DJ Reonic
ACDC LLC
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Posted - 2009.11.29 20:00:00 -
[3]
Edited by: DJ Reonic on 29/11/2009 20:04:51 Edited by: DJ Reonic on 29/11/2009 20:01:15 looks good. All 4 of me likey.
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Eugen Ladder
The Thunderbirds
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Posted - 2009.11.29 20:04:00 -
[4]
smaller cargobay for fittings and ammo since ammo and cap boosters can be in ships own cargohold. maybe 3k or something.. Still good idea
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Lok A'tarr
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Posted - 2009.11.29 20:06:00 -
[5]
lame
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Bauldy
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Posted - 2009.11.29 20:06:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Bauldy on 29/11/2009 20:06:54 For me I would need to have a cargo bay. I run 3 accounts and if i feel like moving to another factions space to screw around there I'll need to bring all my ships, hardeners a stock pile of faction ammo, drones etc. etc. For now I'm training to use an orca so I can make this move but it means leaving a lot of ships behind and scattering myself all over the universe.
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Trebber
RaVeN Alliance RaVeN Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.29 20:40:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Trebber on 29/11/2009 20:40:51 For me, Its a thumbs up except for the skill requirements should be raised.. Now it takes for you to fly any type of tech 2 freighter race specific to level 4. (example:For a Ark you must have Amarr freighter to lv 4, so why not have this type of ship in which would be a huge asset to anyones fleet/corporation a little harder to aquire. Also have Jump freighter raised to Level 3, and jump drive Calibrations raised from lv 1 for a Ark to Lv 3 for the ship freighter.
Trebber |
Kah Eli
Tmi FiftySixty
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Posted - 2009.11.29 21:34:00 -
[8]
Maybe higher skill requirements, but the idea is one that i support.
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Ugly Eric
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Posted - 2009.11.29 21:50:00 -
[9]
Wery usefull and good idea.. little bit of tweaking, and thats it :)
Eric
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Reno Shinra
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Posted - 2009.11.29 22:13:00 -
[10]
looks good
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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.11.29 22:20:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xercodo on 29/11/2009 22:20:47 ya i was trying to be modest on the skill reqs, any specific suggestions?
as for having to require the jump freighter skill, that makes no sense as this one wont be jump capable (other than via jump bridge) (or i mis-read ur suggestion)
ive also thought of adding in graviton physics or something or maybe a new skill called "ship bay management" which could also give some benefits to other ships that have a ship maintenance bay...what those benefits are...idk, just a thought |
Foulque
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:20:00 -
[12]
Or they could just make the max courier size larger than any subcap. ________
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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:33:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Foulque Or they could just make the max courier size larger than any subcap.
a Charon with all level 5 skills gets 981,250 m¦
two Abaddons assembled takes up 990,000 m¦
cant even do two battleships.....so u WANT to transport ONE battleship in something slower than the battleship itself? wow |
I SoStoned
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.30 00:57:00 -
[14]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 30/11/2009 00:58:35 I disagree with the OP. No new ships splitting up your ability to transport, costing 2x the skilltime and 2x the materials to do a single task: hauling.
Simply introduce ship docking arrays of various sizes. These are just different sorts of cans, just like General Freight (no planq affect). They cannot be accessed except at a POS tower, orca/carrier ect, or station.
Small: 10k m/3, (usable for hauling smaller rigged ships via a standard industrial. Roughly the same as can be carried currently as 'packaged' vessels). Medium: 150k m/3 Large: 400k m/3 Giant: 900k m/3
Essentially these cans should be able to haul around 1/2 as many ships as they would if they were packaged (a frig equivalent 5k m/3, a BS 100k m/3, ect). Ships *must* be assembled, and can have no cargo of any sort (not even ammo).
EDIT:
On a side note: maximum courier package sizes are being changed to 900+k m/3 so you can now courier assembled battleships.
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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:23:00 -
[15]
Originally by: I SoStoned Edited by: I SoStoned on 30/11/2009 00:58:35 I disagree with the OP. No new ships splitting up your ability to transport, costing 2x the skilltime and 2x the materials to do a single task: hauling.
Simply introduce ship docking arrays of various sizes. These are just different sorts of cans, just like General Freight (no planq affect). They cannot be accessed except at a POS tower, orca/carrier ect, or station.
Small: 10k m/3, (usable for hauling smaller rigged ships via a standard industrial. Roughly the same as can be carried currently as 'packaged' vessels). Medium: 150k m/3 Large: 400k m/3 Giant: 900k m/3
Essentially these cans should be able to haul around 1/2 as many ships as they would if they were packaged (a frig equivalent 5k m/3, a BS 100k m/3, ect). Ships *must* be assembled, and can have no cargo of any sort (not even ammo).
EDIT:
On a side note: maximum courier package sizes are being changed to 900+k m/3 so you can now courier assembled battleships.
yes but even with the new change ull only be able to fit one tier 3 BS in which case u might as well fly the BS itself...this is for the transport of ship that are assembled and rigged
also for the cans (im guessing ur going with our second suggestion on reducing lag when a ship transport pops) what do u propose be the volume of the can itself? cause at this rate ur just as well off setting up a courier to move rigged ship but is again limited to only one or two BSes
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I SoStoned
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.30 01:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: I SoStoned on 30/11/2009 01:42:51
Originally by: Xercodo
yes but even with the new change ull only be able to fit one tier 3 BS in which case u might as well fly the BS itself...this is for the transport of ship that are assembled and rigged
also for the cans (im guessing ur going with our second suggestion on reducing lag when a ship transport pops) what do u propose be the volume of the can itself? cause at this rate ur just as well off setting up a courier to move rigged ship but is again limited to only one or two BSes
A tier 3 BS is... how large when it's packaged? Let's say it's 50k m/3. The cans (or whatever they be... bays, racks, ect) should double the packaged size of the ship. So in this example a tier 3 BS would be 100k m/3 and you'd then be able to carry 9 of them in the largest size of these proposed containers. BUT you could also use a smaller can and have room for a few general freight cans as well.
I *strongly* dislike the idea of yet another, tech 2 besides, hull with yet another required skill for such a very, very limited function. We have a ship already capable, all that is needed are the containers.
Edit:
Honestly, for all that it matters. Haulers should simply be able to haul ships regardless of their state, with the cargo limit (no cargo, no ammo except in weapons) in place. Freighters and their ilk cannot be accessed in space so the can never become a deployment platform anyway (except at a POS in limited situations) so why the big problem just making ships transportable as cargo in these superhaulers regardless of state?
Also, assembled ship sizes need to be brought down considerably on all sub-capital hulls anyway.
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Atiana Obaani
Tomoe Laboratories Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.11.30 02:47:00 -
[17]
Been thinking about this for a long time. I think that now that we have "Super Carriers" we should now have a TRUE mothership. Insanely slow speed, insanely low warp speed, ultra-weak tank, can use normal stargates only due to some lolrp reason. No high slots, no med slots, no low slots, no rigs.
Make the ship bay size the ships bonus so it can move a maximum of say 30 fully fitted and rigged battleships at max skills. Lots more little'uns.
Relatively low build cost, say in the same range of dreads. Lots of risk for lots of rewards with a kickass escort.
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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.11.30 03:09:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Xercodo on 30/11/2009 03:11:43
Originally by: I SoStoned
A tier 3 BS is... how large when it's packaged? Also, assembled ship sizes need to be brought down considerably on all sub-capital hulls anyway.
the Abaddon is 495,000 m¦ and other tier 3 BSes have similar numbers
so roughly 500,000 m¦ or half a million
and sure they could reduce the size of an assembled ship but then u get the whiners that know that a ship that size cant possibly be that size in volume...its being realistic since a BS is about a kilometer long
Originally by: Atiana Obaani
Make the ship bay size the ships bonus so it can move a maximum of say 30 fully fitted and rigged battleships at max skills. Lots more little'uns.
we have to make 20 the maximum because thats roughly the number that can be fit in 10,000,000 m¦ of space
the Nidoggur is a little over 11,000,000 m¦ so any thing much more than 20 battleships worth would give ppl enough space to get a carrier into highsec
which is why freighters lost there ability to be rigged...except in that case it was because a rigged normal freighter had the space to fit a packaged carrier (1,000,000 m¦)
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Atiana Obaani
Tomoe Laboratories Celestial Imperative
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Posted - 2009.11.30 03:41:00 -
[19]
Not necessarily. I mean seriously. There are alot of modules that have the whole "can has be fitted = no / can has be fitted = yes" argument. Same with live ammo in a contract. Just make it so you can't put capital ships of any kind in them.
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Zefir0
Insurgent New Eden Tribe Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.11.30 03:45:00 -
[20]
could be nice!!
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Bauldy
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Posted - 2009.11.30 06:53:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Atiana Obaani Been thinking about this for a long time. I think that now that we have "Super Carriers" we should now have a TRUE mothership. Insanely slow speed, insanely low warp speed, ultra-weak tank, can use normal stargates only due to some lolrp reason. No high slots, no med slots, no low slots, no rigs.
Make the ship bay size the ships bonus so it can move a maximum of say 30 fully fitted and rigged battleships at max skills. Lots more little'uns.
Relatively low build cost, say in the same range of dreads. Lots of risk for lots of rewards with a kickass escort.
"Insanely slow speed, insanely low warp speed, ultra-weak tank" This sounds like all risk no reward, no one would buy it or fly it.
A little background on the conversation that started this thread. A lot of people in this game have multiple accounts and lots of rigged ships between all those accounts. Those are the only people I can think of that would even need a ship that can move multiple rigged ships for the most part. I know a number of people who use the orca to move their frigs and cruiser but its only barely usefull for and not intended for the roll of U-Hall especially when rigged battle cruisers and battle ships comes in.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2009.11.30 07:36:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mister Xerox on 30/11/2009 07:41:22 Gah, my math fails... ignore such drivel...
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Aurora Nyx
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.11.30 07:41:00 -
[23]
This new ship wouldn't break anything that we already have. Good idea.
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TimMc
Gallente Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.
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Posted - 2009.11.30 16:42:00 -
[24]
yo dawg I put a freighter in your freighter so you can haul while you haul.
Not supported. Freighters are too small to visually hold more than 2 assembled bs. Carriers can only hold 2, shesh and you want 20 in your supership?
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Don Pellegrino
Helljumpers
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Posted - 2009.11.30 16:52:00 -
[25]
I didn't read the whole thread, but I read the entired CSM-CCP meeting and they confirmed that the courier contracts will accept up to 900,000 m3 (in fact, exactly a Charon's capacity with Caldari Freighter 5).
You still won't be able to drop a ship directly into the cargo hold, but you can create a courier contract move assembled ships that way. We're ALREADY able to move assembled cruisers (courier contracts) in a freighter, but we will now be able to move assembled Battleships.
Basically, your whole thread is useless because the issue is going to be resolved very soon.
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Shawshanke
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Posted - 2009.11.30 17:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Don Pellegrino I didn't read the whole thread, but I read the entired CSM-CCP meeting and they confirmed that the courier contracts will accept up to 900,000 m3 (in fact, exactly a Charon's capacity with Caldari Freighter 5).
You still won't be able to drop a ship directly into the cargo hold, but you can create a courier contract move assembled ships that way. We're ALREADY able to move assembled cruisers (courier contracts) in a freighter, but we will now be able to move assembled Battleships.
Basically, your whole thread is useless because the issue is going to be resolved very soon.
So you can move 1 whole battleship inside another slower ship? Wow you're right that's exactly what we were talking about and this thread is now over. /sarcasm
What we are proposing is something like a car carrier for ships.
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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.11.30 22:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: TimMc yo dawg I put a freighter in your freighter so you can haul while you haul.
Not supported. Freighters are too small to visually hold more than 2 assembled bs. Carriers can only hold 2, shesh and you want 20 in your supership?
i counter with an equal offender that defies the laws of physics.....the burst
i ask u, where in the hell does the ore go?.....i rest my case
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Shawshanke
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:34:00 -
[28]
It may look like nothing more than a wire frame but dem Mimatar nose how's to use dat duct tape.
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Jordan Devor
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:02:00 -
[29]
I personally would rather see the current freighters adapt so they can fill this job. If not though, is the price going to be close to the JF?
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Patchwreck
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:29:00 -
[30]
Some ideas I had was to either go with the car carrier idea and have a ship that's nothing but a bunch of external clamps. You would be able to visibly see that ships clamped to it, lower the number of ships that it could haul, 20 assembled battle ships seems like a hell of a lot. Or a tug boat design where the ships are towed slightly behind it in bubbles.
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