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Fenooth
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Posted - 2009.12.01 22:26:00 -
[1]
Has anyone else seen the cost of Hulk production double with Dominion?
Last week if I were to buy the T2 components from Jita it would have cost me about 64m (not including Covetor, blueprint etc) for a ME -3 Hulk bpc.
Today with the change to the blueprint, the cost for the same ME -3 bpc (using the last weeks T2 component prices) it would cost about 135m!!!
Is there some other balance coming in to cheapen the cost of the moon mins/reactions/component prices or are we just going to see a huge rise in the cost to buy a hulk?
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Maaltor
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:23:00 -
[2]
Prices will go up - the changes are additions, not reductions, of the old requirements.
Anyone with a few bil is probably snapping up hulks like theres no tomorrow :)
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Superstringman
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:27:00 -
[3]
When you say the requirements go up, did you hear something specific about the hulk? I heard most were supposed to go down, which has been my experience so far.
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Fenooth
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:34:00 -
[4]
Indeed the perfect hulk is now
construction blocks55 crystalline carbonide armour2200 fusion reactor unit33 ion thruster44 magnetometric sensor cluster165 oscillator capacitor unit440 photon microprocessor2200 pulse shield emitter165
Sorry about the formatting
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Shicopatan Matabechos
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:38:00 -
[5]
probably is for all ships. yesterday i can build a onyx for 70m (invention bpc). Now, with same bpc, build this onyx cost 140m
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Woodwraith
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:39:00 -
[6]
Not a single ship i can build went down, they've all gotten more expensive to produce by 50-100% in some cases, the racial metals bubble is to blame atm, just gotta wait it out for the prices of hardware to skyrocket, or more metal reactors to come on line to fill the gap. gonna be some good money soon, for someone anyway. |
Maaltor
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:45:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Maaltor on 01/12/2009 23:45:47 From eve-wiki, these are the old requirements, with the new requirements listed as well:
Construction Blocks : 55 Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plate : 83 -> 2200 Fusion Reactor Unit : 83 -> 33 Ion Thruster : 83 -> 44 Magnetometric Sensor Cluster : 110 -> 165 Oscillator Capacitor Unit : 165 -> 440 Photon Microprocessor : 165 -> 2200 Pulse Shield Emitter : 165 -> 165
I wouldn't really say the prices have gone up or down - we're looking at a whole different beast to what we had before. Its going to take a long time for a "new" price to come out, but for now its at least 20-30mil more.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.01 23:49:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Maaltor I wouldn't really say the prices have gone up or down - we're looking at a whole different beast to what we had before. Its going to take a long time for a "new" price to come out, but for now its at least 20-30mil more.
Finally, someone with some sense. Thank you
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Maaltor
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Posted - 2009.12.02 00:02:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Tau Cabalander Finally, someone with some sense. Thank you
You're welcome :)
Looking forward to seeing what the market will be like in 12 hours - I knew this was coming and have been putting away 1 T2 ship for every 2 I sell. Someone has 140 hulks on sale in Jita for 180mil since 48 hours ago - they might actually sell now!
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.02 00:22:00 -
[10]
Did ANY of you consider the fact that reactors mainly, but also thrusters, sensors and to a lesser degree shield T2 components will drop in price pretty heavily in the next few days ? Also, did any of you consider what the CURRENT margins on manufacturing specific T2 components (armor plates and microprocessors in particular) are right now, compared to what they were a few weeks ago ? Sheesh, some people just don't understand short-term heavy price fluctuations upon major changes...
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Ky Vatta
Majority 12
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Posted - 2009.12.02 00:24:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Maaltor Edited by: Maaltor on 01/12/2009 23:45:47 From eve-wiki, these are the old requirements, with the new requirements listed as well:
Construction Blocks : 55 Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plate : 83 -> 2200 Fusion Reactor Unit : 83 -> 33 Ion Thruster : 83 -> 44 Magnetometric Sensor Cluster : 110 -> 165 Oscillator Capacitor Unit : 165 -> 440 Photon Microprocessor : 165 -> 2200 Pulse Shield Emitter : 165 -> 165
I wouldn't really say the prices have gone up or down - we're looking at a whole different beast to what we had before. Its going to take a long time for a "new" price to come out, but for now its at least 20-30mil more.
That`s fine if you have a perfect BPO/BPC, but at ME -4 its 3000 CC Armor Plate and 3000 Photon Microprocessor, now look up the price of those alone...
The odds of an EVE player having both a girlfriend and one that plays EVE...well let's just say it's up there with the universe deciding that existence is highly overrated and correcting the mistake |
Maaltor
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Posted - 2009.12.02 00:36:00 -
[12]
I guess if you are a producer now is a good time to take a break, if you are a Hulk pilot it might be a good idea to keep docked up for a while :)
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Jojo Jackson
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Posted - 2009.12.02 00:48:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Jojo Jackson on 02/12/2009 00:49:27 You can't tell a price for any T2 production atm as there had been massive material-speculations and markt manipulations pre-patch (starting with the anouncment of this changes). Plus many Moon POS holder have other problems atm then deliver moon mins ;).
I'd say market will stabilize within 1 to 3 month.
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Ky Vatta
Majority 12
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Posted - 2009.12.02 00:55:00 -
[14]
Just had a major Hulk builder work it out that it`ll cost about 126mill to build a ME 0 Hulk, that`s just production costs
The odds of an EVE player having both a girlfriend and one that plays EVE...well let's just say it's up there with the universe deciding that existence is highly overrated and correcting the mistake |
Superstringman
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Posted - 2009.12.02 01:13:00 -
[15]
"Did ANY of you consider the fact that reactors mainly, but also thrusters, sensors and to a lesser degree shield T2 components will drop in price pretty heavily in the next few days ?"
This is the big question. Why exactly are you so confident they're going to drop?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.02 01:35:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Superstringman "Did ANY of you consider the fact that reactors mainly, but also thrusters, sensors and to a lesser degree shield T2 components will drop in price pretty heavily in the next few days ?"
This is the big question. Why exactly are you so confident they're going to drop?
As the amount needed drops there will be less ferrogel used. Less ferrogel means less dypro needed.
If you haven't noticed ferrogel has dropped in price about 40% in the past month or so. No reduce the number of items needed using ferrogel and it's an even bigger savings.
Now increase the amount of armor plates and microprocessors by 25 times. Those don't use ferrogel.= but the items that make them up will increase to make up for ferrogel.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.02 01:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Superstringman This is the big question. Why exactly are you so confident they're going to drop?
Because I've done the math, and the math was posted, checked and rechecked by many other people.
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Baka Lakadaka
Gallente Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.02 02:03:00 -
[18]
One of the issues I see is that the items/materials that were in less demand before, suddenly became required in larger quantities.
The producers haven't yet switched to producing these new 'in demand' materials and the supply is short. So the cost has dramatically increased on those items. Once supply catches up, the price should stabilise at a lower level.
The items that were expensive before due to high demand haven't dropped fully yet. So they're still expensive (not as expensive as they were but still above where they will settle).
So, stuff that was expensive before, still is (to some extent). Stuff that wasn't expensive before, is now.
Once the producers get the balance right, the stuff in high demand will reduce in price because more people will supply it. Also the stuff that demand is dropping on will become less expensive because of the high supply.
So prices can only fall (IMHO). It will take a little time to flow through the complex T2 supply chain. Some people thought ahead - they're profiting right now. Others are catching up.
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Borun Tal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.02 02:06:00 -
[19]
Before Dominion I had enough BPCs to build a single Charon. Now I'm almost afraid to see how far behind the ball I am.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.02 02:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Borun Tal Before Dominion I had enough BPCs to build a single Charon. Now I'm almost afraid to see how far behind the ball I am.
Charon is a (T1) freighter, nothing changed there. Rhea is the Jump Freighter that is based on the Charon. Rhea build needs HAVE NOT CHANGED either (same for the other 3 JFs).
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Vasta Magna
Yarex Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.12.02 02:43:00 -
[21]
Now lets do a big run on Skiffs.
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Zifrian
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Posted - 2009.12.02 02:45:00 -
[22]
Any serious inventor/manufacturer was not surprised by this nor are they worried about it.
We've known about this change for months and it was documented and tested on what would happen. If you didn't plan for it, that's your problem.
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Christine Rottenbox
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.02 04:28:00 -
[23]
Quote: This is the big question. Why exactly are you so confident they're going to drop?
Because the lower tier moons like Platinum, Cobalt, Scandium, Tungsten and such are under utilized (many moons have no mining going on) so price is spiking. Once all of those formerly worthless moons start flowing, prices will normalize.
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Sassums
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Posted - 2009.12.02 04:46:00 -
[24]
There are no longer any Hulks on the market :(
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Alex555
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Posted - 2009.12.02 07:51:00 -
[25]
hulks will double in price in a near future
noone can stop this from happening
due to changing requirements for construction there will be a natural shortage for specific components and probably specific advanced materials. Hence there will be a shortage in finished hulks.
I havent adjusted my numbers yet, but i am pretty sure that current price, at least morning jita price at 126 is not the end of story.
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Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.02 08:25:00 -
[26]
Prices will be temporarily elevated and then come down again, but they will most likely be resetting to a higher price than before Dominion when they do.
Right now the market is going through an adjustment while moon products rebalance production and pricing.
Additionally, it's going to take manufacturers longer to make the Hulks because the larger number of certain components such as Crystalline Carbonide Armor and Photon Microprocessor's that go into each ship will take much longer....MUCH LONGER........to produce. Longer production = shorter supply = higher price.
There are some things that can be done and will be done to shorten the production time, but it's still allocating more resources to build the same ship and that means it's still going to command a higher price than before.
Regards, Windjammer
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Shana Matika
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Posted - 2009.12.02 09:00:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Windjammer Prices will be temporarily elevated and then come down again, but they will most likely be resetting to a higher price than before Dominion when they do.
Right now the market is going through an adjustment while moon products rebalance production and pricing.
Additionally, it's going to take manufacturers longer to make the Hulks because the larger number of certain components such as Longer production = shorter supply = higher price.Crystalline Carbonide Armor and Photon Microprocessor's that go into each ship will take much longer....MUCH LONGER........to produce.
There are some things that can be done and will be done to shorten the production time, but it's still allocating more resources to build the same ship and that means it's still going to command a higher price than before.
Regards, Windjammer
You realized that for example crystaline armor plates now need 20Sec (perfekt PE) for 1 run? Down from 2 1/2 Min before Dominion. That's what? 11.5 x increase in production time? Time is same then before Dominion. Just slight adjustments here and there. Less time for the high end parts (less parts needed) also help. In the end you need about the same time.
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Triffid PieMuncher
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Posted - 2009.12.02 10:26:00 -
[28]
You need about the same time??? How do you work that out??
On a ME-3 hulk you need 2,800 armour plates. That's 14 HOURS production to make enough armour plates for just for one Hulk, a process the previously took about 4.5 hours.
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Shana Matika
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Posted - 2009.12.02 10:43:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Triffid PieMuncher You need about the same time??? How do you work that out??
On a ME-3 hulk you need 2,800 armour plates. That's 14 HOURS production to make enough armour plates for just for one Hulk, a process the previously took about 4.5 hours.
Not if you look just at armor plates. In detail (old - New): Crystalline Carbonide Armor Plate : 83 -> 2200 or 83*2:30= 270 Min vs 2200*0:20= 726 Min
That's about 500 Min more. Right. But now count in that other parts are used less then before. Also have a look at Akita T' s spreadsheet...there you see the overall affect better (you just compare one T2 item). Only thing they could change is the number of runs one BP could handle...1000 run is just about 5h30min. 5000 Run would be better so you could set up 24h pipes.
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Triffid PieMuncher
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Posted - 2009.12.02 10:57:00 -
[30]
It's irrelevant that other things are used less.
The time it takes to produce the components for a hulk is as long as whatever the longest component production time is. Therefore it now takes 3X as long to produce the components needed for each hulk. That's surely going to affect supply?
I'm not sure that the runs matter. Surely nobody produces armour plates from BPCs do they?
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