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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:34:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:35:00 -
[2]
Corp tax doesn't affect market transactions at all.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:36:00 -
[3]
You have played for five years and yet you do not understand how taxing mechanics work, or that you can make your own personal corp for just you and your alts? Good riddance.
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Sakari Mikko
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:38:00 -
[4]
Can I have your stuff?
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:38:00 -
[5]
don't let the pod door hit you in the ass on the way out
Originally by: Hamshoe
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:40:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Xing Fey Corp tax doesn't affect market transactions at all.
Yes it does, maybe not buy and sell orders but trading in a hauler it eliminates any profit.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:42:00 -
[7]
Trading is not affected by the tax.
Mission running will only be affected bounty/mission reward wise. That's approx. 35% of the total mission income. So we're talking about 3.3% less income from mission running.
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
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Jaggeh
The Order of Odin
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:42:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: Xing Fey Corp tax doesn't affect market transactions at all.
Yes it does, maybe not buy and sell orders but trading in a hauler it eliminates any profit.
your posts are full of fail
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:45:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 05/12/2009 03:45:30
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: Xing Fey Corp tax doesn't affect market transactions at all.
Yes it does, maybe not buy and sell orders but trading in a hauler it eliminates any profit.
Zero percent NPC corp tax was an abominable feature and was in dire need of removal with prejudice for years. If you can't make a profit in a hauler it's because you're hauling the wrong stuff, and if it's just the NPC corp tax that's screwing with you then I'd say just go the one-man or small-corp route. I was in a one-man corp for eight months, ****talking on both the forum and local chat the whole time and was never so much as threatened by a war dec.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Redart Yes it does, maybe not buy and sell orders but trading in a hauler it eliminates any profit.
Have you gone mad ? What the hell are you talking about ? What does that have to do with anything ?
The only things taxed are NPC kill bounties and ISK mission rewards. Everything else (mining, refining, manufacturing, inventing, buying, selling, contracts or any other trades, direct ISK transfers or anything like that) are NOT TAXED via corp tax rate, NPC or player-run, doesn't matter.
There is absolutely no way the corp tax could affect "trading in a hauler" in any way, shape or form. Bloody n00bs these days...
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:46:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Trading is not affected by the tax.
Mission running will only be affected bounty/mission reward wise. That's approx. 35% of the total mission income. So we're talking about 3.3% less income from mission running.
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
Ah well, so be it. I've joined player corps in the past with 2.5% tax and my trading went down exactly 2.5% on top of the normal tax minus the 1% per lvl of accounting.
Even still, there is no reason for the NPC Corp tax other than to push players into doing something they don't want to do. Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:47:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Asuka Smith or that you can make your own personal corp for just you and your alts?
But I herd that u will b decced an keeled as soon as u undok if u leve teh noob corp!
Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Redart I've joined player corps in the past with 2.5% tax and my trading went down exactly 2.5% on top of the normal tax minus the 1% per lvl of accounting.
No, it didn't. Stop lying. Or stop deluding yourself, whichever of these two applies. Your trading was NEVER affected by corp tax. Whatever it is you think you saw (if you saw anything), it WASN'T the corp tax.
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Redart Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
You're never more free than when you're in a one-man corp that's part of an alliance that your alt belongs to. You can do anything in this game with that and are subject to no one's rules.
What exactly about "NPC Corp" implies "Freedom" anyway, taxes or no?
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Ceat Murtains
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:53:00 -
[15]
I'm always surprised by how much stupid Eve players can squeeze into a single post.
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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:54:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Redart Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
You're never more free than when you're in a one-man corp that's part of an alliance that your alt belongs to. You can do anything in this game with that and are subject to no one's rules.
What exactly about "NPC Corp" implies "Freedom" anyway, taxes or no?
And be alone or talk in one of the overcrowded general chans or try and hold a conversation in local bouncing back and forth between systems.
Again, that's not freedom. There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
What if you develop friendships within them? You're going to say "make your own corp" yeah that don't work when you're casual players. What if they all don't want to join the corp? You have to recruit people just to chat. Then you stepped beyond the bounds of casual play.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Yelan Zhou
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:55:00 -
[17]
As Akita said, taxes apply NOT to market transactions.
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Korizan
Red Mercury Incorporated
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Posted - 2009.12.05 03:55:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Korizan on 05/12/2009 03:55:54 You could create your own corporation and I know for a fact that there are several corporations out there that are built around casual player with no requirements @ all.
Then again that -2.4 Security Rating can't be helping your trading much either
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:00:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Redart There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
Correction, there's no reason that would benefit you // that you personally would like for a tax on NPC corps. The actual reason is that complete safety for wardecs at no effort at all should NOT BE FREE. You are paying a measly 11% of your bounties for that (which, as some people pointed out, is barely more than 3% of the typical mission-running income).
Granted, the reason to institute the NPC corp tax is only one of the (at least) two steps that NEEDED to be made, the other one (still nowhere in sight) would be a revamping of wardecs to avoid easy corp-hopping when wardecced. Because right now, there's nothing easier than simply creating a corp with 0% tax rate, then moving on to another corp as soon as you get wardecced.
In other words, until CCP looks at the wardec/corphop mechanics, the NPC tax rate was a pointless thing to introduce. But once they do, it will no longer be pointless.
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Rhanna Khurin
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:00:00 -
[20]
You are aware you can make a one man corp just for you and your alts? If you get wardecced it isn't much of a bother to just start a new one.
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:02:00 -
[21]
Oh and on the contrary, you can absolutely be in a player corp that's casual. Red Light Enterprises, who I'm still pretty sure I've spent the majority of my time in this game with (although I'd have to check on that now that I've been with RHN for awhile) is a great example. Even people who have been out of the corp for a couple years hang out in its public chat now and then, and we had great fun when the corp was still active.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:06:00 -
[22]
Silly people use dumb reasoning to back their actions, let him keep his trolling/dumb reasoning, goodbye.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
mechtech
SRS Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:09:00 -
[23]
rofl, make your own solo corporation????
The change is meant to prevent people from dodging war decs, it doesn't change your style of gameplay at all, just make your own corp.
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Isareal Altara
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:14:00 -
[24]
Originally by: mechtech rofl, make your own solo corporation????
The change is meant to prevent people from dodging war decs, it doesn't change your style of gameplay at all, just make your own corp.
Sad thing is this is going to hurt long term when that happens...
Suddenly instead of the B'ing about npc corps it's B'ing at the number of 1-3man corps running around that are not worth wardeccing, or working together so in order to wardec the people mining in your high sec backyard you can't due to a limit on the number of wardecs (cause they can drop just an alt in as CEO leaving the corp active while they join/form a new one)
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Shogun Archer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:21:00 -
[25]
Lol, I look at his portrait and see some crotchety old man *****ing about taxes.
OP, obvioulsy you don't want to play if a freaking 10% tax is enough to make you quit. Just quit, and no I don't want your stuff. I have plenty.
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Ceat Murtains
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Isareal Altara
Originally by: mechtech rofl, make your own solo corporation????
The change is meant to prevent people from dodging war decs, it doesn't change your style of gameplay at all, just make your own corp.
Sad thing is this is going to hurt long term when that happens...
Suddenly instead of the B'ing about npc corps it's B'ing at the number of 1-3man corps running around that are not worth wardeccing, or working together so in order to wardec the people mining in your high sec backyard you can't due to a limit on the number of wardecs (cause they can drop just an alt in as CEO leaving the corp active while they join/form a new one)
If it's that much of a problem you can just suicide gank them. Not like its hard to gank a miner.
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Isareal Altara
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Ceat Murtains
Originally by: Isareal Altara
Originally by: mechtech rofl, make your own solo corporation????
The change is meant to prevent people from dodging war decs, it doesn't change your style of gameplay at all, just make your own corp.
Sad thing is this is going to hurt long term when that happens...
Suddenly instead of the B'ing about npc corps it's B'ing at the number of 1-3man corps running around that are not worth wardeccing, or working together so in order to wardec the people mining in your high sec backyard you can't due to a limit on the number of wardecs (cause they can drop just an alt in as CEO leaving the corp active while they join/form a new one)
If it's that much of a problem you can just suicide gank them. Not like its hard to gank a miner.
yeah, but that sec hit can be a pain. Not everyone has the time or desire to grind it back up... and it's not worth trying to hire mercs to do suicides (cost not worth it)
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Angryinch
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:35:00 -
[28]
Let's play a game with Anagram's
The Op's Name is Redart GO.........
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Rhatar Khurin
Minmatar Dead poets society The Laughing Men
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:45:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Angryinch Let's play a game with Anagram's
The Op's Name is Redart GO.........
Angryinch becomes.... An Cry Nigh
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Intense Thinker
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Angryinch becomes.... An Cry Nigh
Rhatar Khurin becomes... Hair Hark Runt
Originally by: Hamshoe
Don't **** down my back and tell me it's raining.
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Rhanna Khurin
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:52:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Angryinch becomes.... An Cry Nigh
Rhatar Khurin becomes... Hair Hark Runt
Teen thinker Sin!
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Culmen
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2009.12.05 04:59:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Rhanna Khurin
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: Rhatar Khurin
Angryinch becomes.... An Cry Nigh
Rhatar Khurin becomes... Hair Hark Runt
Teen thinker Sin!
Huh? NARK ran in! and further more why do i even need a sig? |
Rpeg
Minmatar Rosa Castellum
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Posted - 2009.12.05 05:02:00 -
[33]
Sorry to break it to you but this game was never good for casual play unless you just want some limited economy simulator... which is more or less why I play. -- autechre - ep7 - track 1: rpeg estevancarlos.com |
Yerotun
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Posted - 2009.12.05 05:28:00 -
[34]
can we say make your own corp and quit bein so skerd of bein war decd?
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sue denim
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Posted - 2009.12.05 05:28:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Redart Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
You're never more free than when you're in a one-man corp that's part of an alliance that your alt belongs to. You can do anything in this game with that and are subject to no one's rules.
What exactly about "NPC Corp" implies "Freedom" anyway, taxes or no?
And be alone or talk in one of the overcrowded general chans or try and hold a conversation in local bouncing back and forth between systems.
Again, that's not freedom. There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
What if you develop friendships within them? You're going to say "make your own corp" yeah that don't work when you're casual players. What if they all don't want to join the corp? You have to recruit people just to chat. Then you stepped beyond the bounds of casual play.
personal channels are free fyi.... just make a channel and invite them and bing whenever u login itll be there like ur own private chatroom, and you can invite as many ppl as u want!
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Zercix
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Posted - 2009.12.05 05:53:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Zercix on 05/12/2009 05:55:25 I had been playing around in low sec for about a week, so when I heard about the tax I said what the heck. I have started a corp and thought I will play with things and see how they work. There is a lot of stuff and I am not sure if it is even possible to learn all the corp functions without members. I do not think I am ready to be a CEO so I guess I will try to get to know the locals and see if I can join a corp in the area.
If I leave will my corp stay active and be ready for me to come back, or do I have to put an alt in the corp and make them CEO? |
Aralieus
Amarr Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.12.05 06:10:00 -
[37]
na na na naaa na na na naaa hey hey hey goooooodbyyyyyye
fake edit: jus give me your stuff
Fortune Favors the Bold!! |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.05 06:29:00 -
[38]
OP makes one good point. Leaving for 1 man corps hurts player interaction, doesn't help it. And that is the best thing to do for those who were not interested in a player corp before the tax. My main has been in a 1 man corp for over 7 months and it's very quiet, I love the benefits but there's hardly anyone to talk to as my previous corps "social" channel is getting more and more empty (and I'm lucky to even have one, many corps don't).
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Ashina Sito
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.05 06:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Akita T
The only things taxed are NPC kill bounties and ISK mission rewards. Everything else (mining, refining, manufacturing, inventing, buying, selling, contracts or any other trades, direct ISK transfers or anything like that) are NOT TAXED via corp tax rate, NPC or player-run, doesn't matter.
There is absolutely no way the corp tax could affect "trading in a hauler" in any way, shape or form. Bloody n00bs these days...
For now...
CCP stated that if the 11% doesn't work they will take more drastic steps to get people out of NPC corps. This effort will fail. there are really 2 types of players in NPC corps, those who want to be there and those who are alts of players with pilots in Player Corps. The first will suck it up and the second are players that are already in PC's.
It will be interesting to see what is next and how soon it will happen.
Originally by: Akita T
The actual reason is that complete safety for wardecs at no effort at all should NOT BE FREE. You are paying a measly 11% of your bounties for that (which, as some people pointed out, is barely more than 3% of the typical mission-running income).
Hummm... considering I spend at least half my time in 0.0 there is no safety from war decs. Is there some sort of trick to get CONCORD to come and cover my backside out there? I would love to get war dec'ed. It would be funny since I would just hang out in 0.0 a waiting for the empire hugging pansys to show up.
Actually this tax screwed me handily yesterday. Had a 10/10 site and did not get a single drop of deadspace loot or overseer's effects. All the while getting taxed for non-existent CONCORD protection. Woopee!!
The real reason for this is not war dec's but subscriptions.
You get a higher retention rate from players that participate in the game community. This community gets the player to stay longer and have a higher chance of returning if they chose to leave the game. The "solo" player is more likely to quit earlier and never bother to look back. The one flaw in CCP's perception of NPC corps is that they do not see the corps themselves as being a community. To some, not all, of the pilots in these NPC corps it is the community where they wish to be. They can not find what they are looking for in a PC. Being forced into a PC will do the reverse of what CCP wants, it will get them to quit.
The real question is, at the end of the day does "Player corp only" Eve come away with more subscriptions then the "unrestricted corp" Eve. CCP is betting on the "Player Corp only" model.
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Tajwel Kura
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Posted - 2009.12.05 07:03:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Tajwel Kura on 05/12/2009 07:03:07
Originally by: Ashina Sito Hummm... considering I spend at least half my time in 0.0 there is no safety from war decs. Is there some sort of trick to get CONCORD to come and cover my backside out there? I would love to get war dec'ed. It would be funny since I would just hang out in 0.0 a waiting for the empire hugging pansys to show up.
Actually this tax screwed me handily yesterday. Had a 10/10 site and did not get a single drop of deadspace loot or overseer's effects. All the while getting taxed for non-existent CONCORD protection. Woopee!!
So why not form your own corporation and enjoy 0% tax if you live in 0.0 anyhow? If you have made friends in NPC corp chat why not make a private chat channel between you and talk with them there? Forming your own corp is and pulling 10-20 people into a newly formed chat is a little bit of work but not that much.
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b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.05 07:34:00 -
[41]
Someone link to a thread explaining how this new tax works please.
I'm with the OP, a casual player with no interest in joining any corp ever. The game's plenty fun without that part of the game, for me anyway. Nor do I have any interest in creating a one-man corp. If CCP are now in the business of forcing players into corps, well, bleh.
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Nocts
Minmatar Vanguard Wing
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Posted - 2009.12.05 07:39:00 -
[42]
Adapt or die. ---------
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Jowen Datloran
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.05 07:46:00 -
[43]
OP: I have been in a NPC corp for than 6 years now, and I tell you to HTFU.
Nobody is forcing you to anything, and what has been rightfully pointed out for you (as well as me at one time) the tax will hardly touch your income at all. Also, Fleet Finder is an awesome tool when used in the NPC corps, much more than in player run. I would gladly pay my 11% tax for that, though due to the nature of my in game activities, I pay no tax at all. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Aurora Nyx
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.05 08:12:00 -
[44]
Awwww man, why can't i be the first to see one of these threads ? Oh well, i'll give it a go anyway (not that the OP has much by the sounds of it)...........
...... Can i haz ur stuffz ?
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b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.05 08:17:00 -
[45]
Link to the dev blog on the 11% NPC tax here.
Does not list exactly what it affects and what it does not affect.
The forum thread on the subject here.
Quoting CCP: # We would prefer that players join player corporations, or other entities that shape the world of EVE at a higher degree than the NPC corporations do, due to their impersonal and somewhat isolated role. That said, this change is not implemented to ôdestroyö NPC corps, they should be considered a small motivation to join a player corporation, where you can develop and flourish as a player.
Quoting me: # I would prefer not to play your game. Joining corps is not fun for everyone, or even most players.
I don't like the tone of the above statement from CCP, it's not how I thought they operated.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.12.05 08:26:00 -
[46]
You should take a group of like-minded individualists and make an organization with the intent of protesting these horrible changes. Call it 'Individualists United' or something.
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b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.05 08:56:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab You should take a group of like-minded individualists and make an organization with the intent of protesting these horrible changes. Call it 'Individualists United' or something.
I'm pretty sure I just said I do not want to join a corporation, which implies no groups, organizations or %#*&ing sewing circles! To borrow a Star Wars analogy, I'm a Han Solo type, not a Galactic Republic or Rebellion type. I couldn't give a flying cucumber about the larger machinations of the Eve universe, nor do I have the time or desire to have my life dictated to, even a little bit, by an internet game.
This change, as far as I know, does not affect me at all because my income comes solely from trading. For me it's the principle. If CCP want to get people in corps, or out in 0.0, then make it more fun by adding content that is corporation specific and 0.0 specific, do not nudge/manipulate us to do things we have no interest in doing.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.05 09:04:00 -
[48]
Stop being so pathetic. No one is forcing you.
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.05 09:04:00 -
[49]
Originally by: b1zz do not nudge/manipulate us to do things we have no interest in doing.
They just did.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
Victim James
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Posted - 2009.12.05 09:21:00 -
[50]
Originally by: b1zz I don't like the tone of the above statement from CCP, it's not how I thought they operated.
I totally agree here... OH WAIT NO, THESE AREN'T THE WORLD OF WARCRAFT FORUMS.
Seriously **** where the **** did you ******* spawn?
Basically you and the OP are whining because from now on you lose 3% of your mission income so that you can continue to be casual carebears, immune to wardecs and such, enjoying the newbie content of the most hardest, vicious, evil and hardcore pvp-oriented MMO out there.
And no, I'm not saying that all people living in hisec, mining and missioning are "stupid carebears". A lot of people/corps out there take it like men - when their carebearing corp gets wardecced, they dont quit, logoff for 2 weeks or beg for mercy. These carebear corps prepare to fight, they even hire mercs to fight by their side against the wardeccers.
So if your income from your hauler business is really destroyed by losing 3% of your mission income () I would recommend you to cancel your account and buy one of those single player games with an "EASY" difficulty option.
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Anvalor
Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.12.05 09:39:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Anvalor on 05/12/2009 09:42:52
Originally by: Redart
And be alone or talk in one of the overcrowded general chans or try and hold a conversation in local bouncing back and forth between systems.
Again, that's not freedom. There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
What if you develop friendships within them? You're going to say "make your own corp" yeah that don't work when you're casual players. What if they all don't want to join the corp? You have to recruit people just to chat. Then you stepped beyond the bounds of casual play.
You do not need to invite players to your own corp, if you want to chat with them. You know you can just create your own channel and invite everyone you want to ?
And what Nika Dekaia said does not sound so bad for me. I do not see a real reason to stay in one of those npc corps except if one knows how to make many enemys. So maybe you have a reason to be afraid of wardecs, i do not know.
But anyway, you have to accept it. Either stay in your npc corp and have a tax or create your own. Another way would be to join a freelancer corp or alliance where noone cares how often your are online. There are quite some of those corps or alliances. CIC is one of them for example just to give you an example. Check the recruitment forum and you will find a corp that is good for you.
edit: I forgot to say, do not apply for our alliance tho. We do not need whiners ,even if they are not online much
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Jumponme
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Posted - 2009.12.05 09:57:00 -
[52]
U could just have created a own corp for you and your alts ... but then you started to whine on the forums without reason and told everyone about your hauling-business. So if you still gonne create a own corp, expect some wardecs ...
Anyhow ... you should play DarkstarOne, Homeworld or something like that ... you know ... singleplayer-games. |
Tobias Sjodin
Ore Mongers
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Posted - 2009.12.05 10:03:00 -
[53]
"Five years" and does not know even the basics of the in-game mechanics.
I call BS.
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Ocih
Amarr Clan Shadow Wolf Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 10:06:00 -
[54]
I have a placer corp and have since I started EvE. 'My corp' that I keep anywhere from 1 to 4 of my chars on. In fact I have a main in it at this point, simply because her nich doesnt fill out in any player corp. Your complaint is legitimate in is frustration but it was aimed at balance and not a penalty. It doesnt work but that was the plan. Just like in Real life, big corps launder profit and debt to subsidiary's all the time. My subsidiary or proxy corp can be used to traffic loot and can be used to run missions that arent rewarded as fleet. Just like in RL, its just doing business.
I doubt its really the reason you are bailing though, just an excuse. That said, best of luck I hope you find something you enjoy. |
Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.05 10:45:00 -
[55]
I have no problem with this tax. 'We didn't want that NPC corp chat anyways.' In fact, I'm in favor of changing the tax just a wee little bit...back down to 10%. BUT...making it on ALL income.
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Ban Doga
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 11:19:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Anvalor Edited by: Anvalor on 05/12/2009 09:42:52
Originally by: Redart
And be alone or talk in one of the overcrowded general chans or try and hold a conversation in local bouncing back and forth between systems.
Again, that's not freedom. There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
What if you develop friendships within them? You're going to say "make your own corp" yeah that don't work when you're casual players. What if they all don't want to join the corp? You have to recruit people just to chat. Then you stepped beyond the bounds of casual play.
You do not need to invite players to your own corp, if you want to chat with them. You know you can just create your own channel and invite everyone you want to ?
...
You may start with a one or two dozen people you know but eventually some of them will quit or just spend less time online. At this time you will realize that you could invite more people but that you just don't know any you would like to invite. The NPC corps usually provide a constant stream of new people/alts to talk to.
On the other hand a casual player will probably benefit more from a laid back corp with no/low taxes and couple members as this increases the chance of seeing someone in corp chat when being online.
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Industry
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.05 11:31:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Industry on 05/12/2009 11:31:43 OP, did you really just read that other guy's thread crying about NPC tax and, with no real personal experiences/feelings on the subject until then, make a thread?
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Jessica Lorelei
Minmatar Decimus Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.05 11:50:00 -
[58]
Edited by: Jessica Lorelei on 05/12/2009 11:51:23
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
who the hell are they? as far as the universe of eve is concerned they are GOD, get over it, they make the game they make the rules, you cant turn around and say hey your rules don't fit my play style so who the hell are you to make a game that doesn't fit my style? I already see you said you are leaving, good, vote with your wallet, but enough people like the game so you won't change anything by leaving.
I won't even touch on what others have said about the tax I would just be repeating the intelligence you lack.
p.s if you think taxes encroach on your profit you are a terrible trader.
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Vysnaite
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.05 11:57:00 -
[59]
So you basically wanted to whine about NPC corp mechanics and even without taking a look at how it works, you randomly chose trade. It does not affect trade in any way. Your bull**** story of 5 years - you think it gives you credibility? Your a joke mister.
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Terra Nok
Human Information Virus
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 11:57:00 -
[60]
This topic is pathetic. If you had ever bothered to take part in this game beyond hiding in a sea of n00bs you'd know that this is a complete non-issue.
First off, the tax is small, and only effects Bounties and mission payouts.
Second, forming a player corp takes about 5 minutes, costs little and can be done by an alt with practically no training.
If you are so afraid of the rest of the community, maybe you should consider talking to a therapist. Because your issue clearly doesn't lie with CCP.
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Draconis Andromedae
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Posted - 2009.12.05 12:00:00 -
[61]
Why does someone want to play MMORPG like you would play a single player game?
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Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 12:26:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Draconis Andromedae Why does someone want to play MMORPG like you would play a single player game?
In EVE that would be pretty damned hard.
You'd need to:
Mine your own minerals.
Buy all your blueprints from the market and research them yourself, then make all of your own stuff.
Never use anything but the T1 stuff you built or named mods that dropped from NPCs.
Never sell or buy anything on the market or contracts except for said blueprints (from NPC sell orders).
Never get killed or engage in PvP of any kind.
Close all chat channels and never talk to anyone.
Then, and only then, maybe you'd be so detached from the rest of the game world that "playing an MMO like a single player game" might apply.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
Troll Bridgington
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 13:42:00 -
[63]
5/10
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Discrodia
Gallente Experimental Horizons
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Posted - 2009.12.05 13:50:00 -
[64]
You could join my corp and run about harassing the universe!
Or just man up and look at the recruitment channel.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist Locked, thread is filled with trolling.
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Misaki Yuuko
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 13:54:00 -
[65]
Quit EVE please, you're useless.
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Blackjack Turner
Caldari State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 14:10:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
You are dumb. Go away. Fail troll is fail. 0/10
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Olthel
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 14:24:00 -
[67]
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Jolla Skyia
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 14:41:00 -
[68]
Confirming rage quits based on assumptions that are wrong are the best rage quits.
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.12.05 14:51:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Redart There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
Correction, there's no reason that would benefit you // that you personally would like for a tax on NPC corps. The actual reason is that complete safety for wardecs at no effort at all should NOT BE FREE. You are paying a measly 11% of your bounties for that (which, as some people pointed out, is barely more than 3% of the typical mission-running income).
Granted, the reason to institute the NPC corp tax is only one of the (at least) two steps that NEEDED to be made, the other one (still nowhere in sight) would be a revamping of wardecs to avoid easy corp-hopping when wardecced. Because right now, there's nothing easier than simply creating a corp with 0% tax rate, then moving on to another corp as soon as you get wardecced.
In other words, until CCP looks at the wardec/corphop mechanics, the NPC tax rate was a pointless thing to introduce. But once they do, it will no longer be pointless.
NPC corp tax is (as you point out) irrelevant to anyone with two functioning brain cells to rub together.
People who want to be in player corps are, those who don't want to be (for whatever reason) won't be forced into them like this. In effect, its a change designed only to annoy people.
Since people can corp hop to avoid wardecs (see below), the net effective change will be negligible...
Originally by: GM Nythanos Hello,
For #1, Closing a corporation and opening a new one with the same members is allowed, and the people who declared war on your now closed corporation can declare a new war on your new corporation if they choose to do so.
For #2, Using alt corps to increase the cost of wars against your corporation or alliance is prohibited.
To help clarify this, there are restrictions with regards to joining and leaving corporation, such as mentioned here: http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=2317&tid=1
This is an official CCP GM ruling less than 6 months ago.
CCP has looked at it... Corp hopping is legal. Sorry to disappoint you.
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Wesfahrn
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Posted - 2009.12.05 15:27:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Wesfahrn on 05/12/2009 15:30:26 So you want immunity from other players? Why? Do you not know of the benefits of overcomming a challenge?
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XJennieX
Minmatar Children of Gjallarhorn
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Posted - 2009.12.05 15:35:00 -
[71]
bye bye. we wont be missing u. oh and btw, obligatory can i have ur stuff plz
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XJennieX
Minmatar Children of Gjallarhorn
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Posted - 2009.12.05 15:43:00 -
[72]
put the tax of 90% after being one month in npc corp.
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Kazang
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2009.12.05 16:01:00 -
[73]
Make a one man corp for you and your alts then......... dumbass. Kazang
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MaxxOmega
Caldari Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.12.05 16:15:00 -
[74]
I agree with the OP this is outrageous... er... ummm.... what's the problem again?
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Kingnuts
Advocates of Sin
|
Posted - 2009.12.05 16:23:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Redart Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
Then you stepped beyond the bounds of casual play.
Casual play is serious business. If your such a casual player then why do you have a channel open. Oh lordy lordy the boundry is being marked again. Just ****ing quit already and stop making **** posts. You're disapointed by NPC corp tax, so what. Deal with it, you had your chance to voice your opinion before the fact. Blasted, buggin off Bacardi and acid. Department of Forensics, Purple haze and cybergenics. I live to get high so baby call the medics! |
Rhivre
Caldari Built to Last
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Posted - 2009.12.05 16:34:00 -
[76]
Make a 1 man corp.
Stick that corp in one of the many alliances are more like groups of people hanging out.
Set your corp tax to 0%.
You get to meet new people, have channels to hang out in, while still being a 1man corp...other than that, join one of the tons of player channels for various interests, take a look around, there are ones covering pretty much anything.
I am in a 1 man corp, but I hang out in a load of channels so I have people to chat to / exchange info and ideas with, while avoiding the hell that is npc corp chat, in fact, that is the reason I started making my own corps, to get my chars out of npc corp asap as the chat drove me crazy.
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Fatty McChubchub
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Posted - 2009.12.05 16:37:00 -
[77]
Upon first reading the post and the OP's name I lol'd. I thought it said '******". Then I started reading and realized, yep it does.
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Doctor Cal'torien
Gallente The Vikings of the Black Sea
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Posted - 2009.12.05 16:42:00 -
[78]
1. make own corp 2. join a chat channel full of friendly veterans (not gonna tell ya which one i frequent because i don't want you joining it) 3. ????????????????? 4. PROFIT! ----- this toon get's all it's conversation material from now on from: http://www.pakin.org/complaint disregard anything i have said, thank yew |
Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:15:00 -
[79]
1) It is not corp tax it is corp THEFT. You will never see those money nor will anyone else.
2) If you are not affected by the NPC tax could you pretty please STFU? Because frankly, you have no clue about the matter. It is you being in lame corp with lame taxes sitting in lame system. If you are so jelous at NPC corpies, leave the stinking hole you are in and you will be in one cozy NPC corp right away. And we will not go to there YOU are, because we have no interest in pathetic bossing attempts by some self righteous snots.
3) Tax as it is currently is broken. It only applies to certain activities and then only to a subset of those activities (e.g. no tax on tags). This change only reinforces already broken mechanics even further.
4) As said before, this change does nothing to push alts/traders/manufactures out of NPC corps.
CCP designers think whip is a good motivational implement in current world. Well, I do not care about their private life, but keep it home.
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b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:16:00 -
[80]
Originally by: MaxxOmega I agree with the OP this is outrageous... er... ummm.... what's the problem again?
Funnily enough you've probably stumbled on the crux of the problem with this little bit of contemptuous sarcasm, and that's that most players don't seem to able to grasp the issue. They equate casual play with cowardly play and therefore feel justified in the endless ridicule. They can't understand that not everyone is a holidaying student with 12 hours a day to play the game, or that if they were they would even want to waste that much of there life on the game. They think casual players should be forced to PvP despite being at a distinct disadvantage due to the reduced play time and lack of experience that results. They and CCP forget that although the game has been created with epic corporation politics in mind the skill system is one of the most casual-player-friendly in existance which was always going to attract a large casual player base that I would think CCP would not want to upset.
The answer, as I've already stated along with many others, is to look at high-sec as the set-and-forget runs-by-itself boring beginner player area, then throw all their efforts, cool content, etc out into 0.0 accessable only to corporations. I can think of a million-buzillion ideas to coolerfy low-sec - surely CCP have brainstorming sessions to come up with ideas. Here's some:
- Impliment a mission builder, allowing corporations of a certain size to create their own missions - an answer to filling up the game with content in short time, and similar to the very popular map building developers of FPS games release. - Start to add unique effects in certain areas on the map in 0.0, tourist locations, areas prohibited to large fleets due to 'anomolies' similar to the Kessel Run in Star Wars etc - 0.0 mission arcs with video segways. - Distribute one of a kind items of limited power through the universe. - Impliment ways for casual players to fleet up, casually - something they have been doing and have done in this patch. - Never ever ever restrict a players freedom to do as he pleases in the universe, it ****s ppl off (joining militias restricts movement, and taxing NPC corps forces you to create pointless one man corps).
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:30:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Forge Lag 1) It is not corp tax it is corp THEFT. You will never see those money nor will anyone else.
It's used to bribe CONCORD to make NPC corps wardec safe. So it's a rather important investment from your part.
Originally by: Forge Lag 2) If you are not affected by the NPC tax could you pretty please STFU? Because frankly, you have no clue about the matter.
This is a discussion board and not beeing affected does not equal not having a clue or an opinion, which we all are allowed to voice here.
Originally by: Forge Lag 3) Tax as it is currently is broken. It only applies to certain activities and then only to a subset of those activities (e.g. no tax on tags). This change only reinforces already broken mechanics even further.
Yes, only bounties/mission rewards beeing affected is a rather bad mechanic. In player corps, I favour a plain monthly payment (newbs excluded, staggered by char age / SP) as this makes everyone equal, no matter what profession. I think those treaties, which CCP promissed will make that even easier (monthly payment to the corp for every member)
Originally by: Forge Lag 4) As said before, this change does nothing to push alts/traders/manufactures out of NPC corps.
As has been said before, the tax does not affect traders / manufacturers. Get that into your brain. And even for mission runners, it's a rather pathetic amount of ISK.
Originally by: Forge Lag CCP designers think whip is a good motivational implement in current world. Well, I do not care about their private life, but keep it home.
It's not a whip, it's a little incentive to look for a playercorp. And since you're all emo about it, it seems to work.
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b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:33:00 -
[82]
At the end of the day I think CCP has a fundamental problem if their ultimate goal is to get the majority of players out into 0.0 and into corporations. Being involved in coporations, fleet fights, 0.0 roams and the meticulous ship fitting required to survive in 0.0 takes crap loads of time, time that the majority of the players base just does not have to give.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:43:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 05/12/2009 17:46:36 Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 05/12/2009 17:46:10
Originally by: b1zz - Impliment a mission builder, allowing corporations of a certain size to create their own missions - an answer to filling up the game with content in short time, and similar to the very popular map building developers of FPS games release.
Yeah, can't see how that could be exploited in any way. Nope.
Originally by: b1zz - Start to add unique effects in certain areas on the map in 0.0, tourist locations, areas prohibited to large fleets due to 'anomolies' similar to the Kessel Run in Star Wars etc
Ummm.... Originally by: b1zz - Never ever ever restrict a players freedom to do as he pleases in the universe, it ****s ppl off
That's against the sanbox spirit of Eve, btw..
Originally by: b1zz - Distribute one of a kind items of limited power through the universe.
CCP gives out unique stuff like that in the alliance tourney. Don't even start whining if you're not in an alliance and not good at PvP and will never win such a thing. You still can buy it from the winners. It doesn't bind on pickup.
Originally by: b1zz - Impliment ways for casual players to fleet up, casually - something they have been doing and have done in this patch.
Fleet finder needs some refinement, but a good start.
Originally by: b1zz - Never ever ever restrict a players freedom to do as he pleases in the universe, it ****s ppl off (joining militias restricts movement, and taxing NPC corps forces you to create pointless one man corps).
Eve is a game of choice and consequence. HTFU
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:45:00 -
[84]
Originally by: b1zz At the end of the day I think CCP has a fundamental problem if their ultimate goal is to get the majority of players out into 0.0 and into corporations. Being involved in coporations, fleet fights, 0.0 roams and the meticulous ship fitting required to survive in 0.0 takes crap loads of time, time that the majority of the players base just does not have to give.
CCP stated they want players in player corps, not necessarily in 0.0. The tax is an incentive and doesn't require players to join a player corp, if they don't want to.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.05 17:59:00 -
[85]
Originally by: b1zz At the end of the day I think CCP has a fundamental problem if their ultimate goal is to get the majority of players out into 0.0 and into corporations. Being involved in coporations, fleet fights, 0.0 roams and the meticulous ship fitting required to survive in 0.0 takes crap loads of time, time that the majority of the players base just does not have to give.
You are 100% wrong. The majority of the player base has plenty of time for corp stuff. The problem is YOU don't have the time to play video games.
Why don't you and the op form your own corp? |
Ava Starfire
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Posted - 2009.12.05 18:30:00 -
[86]
For 150m I can tell you how to be rid of the NPC corp tax. Space is fun! |
FarosWarrior
Amarr Sonnema
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Posted - 2009.12.05 18:33:00 -
[87]
not every corp is like BoB used to be... in which you had to play eve as a second job. and its bull that a player corp forces you to do their likings, and market transactions are not affected by corp taxes at all cheers, Faros
"As long as we're jammed we might as well throw those 1400mm's at them" Charlie Fodder, Clear Skies |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 18:40:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Tippia on 05/12/2009 18:41:28
Originally by: b1zz At the end of the day I think CCP has a fundamental problem if their ultimate goal is to get the majority of players out into 0.0 and into corporations. Being involved in coporations, fleet fights, 0.0 roams and the meticulous ship fitting required to survive in 0.0 takes crap loads of time, time that the majority of the players base just does not have to give.
No. At the end of the day, the fundamental problem is that, as long as people stay in NPC corps, they will believe this kind of fantasy-based nonsense and never learn how the game is actually played. Same goes for the highsec dwellers' myths about lowsec and 0.0.
NPC corps certainly have their role to play, but anything that incentivizes people to leave them is an inherently good thing. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:18:00 -
[89]
Eve needs quicksave, quickload and pause buttons TBH
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:31:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 05/12/2009 18:41:28 No. At the end of the day, the fundamental problem is that, as long as people stay in NPC corps, they will believe this kind of fantasy-based nonsense and never learn how the game is actually played. Same goes for the highsec dwellers' myths about lowsec and 0.0.
NPC corps certainly have their role to play, but anything that incentivizes people to leave them is an inherently good thing.
Bottom line is that people who want to be in PC's are, people who don't want to be, aren't. And probably wont' be.
Should open a school Tippia, teach everyone "how the game should be played..."
Don't you have some PL towers to kill... oh yeah, you are, because its so exciting that your spending your time on the forums while you do it...
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
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Nicholas Barker
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:44:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Redart
I enjoy running missions
oh I'm sorry, I thought you were being serious. ------
back from 90day forum ban. |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:46:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Daemonspirit Bottom line is that people who want to be in PC's are, people who don't want to be, aren't. And probably wont' be.
Of course they won't, since ignorance is a hard thing to remove. So attacking the unwillingness is an easier way to remove the ignorance, rather than doing it the other way around. The result is much the same.
Quote: Don't you have some PL towers to kill... oh yeah, you are, because its so exciting that your spending your time on the forums while you do it...
See? There's that ignorance again. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Inumbikai
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:51:00 -
[93]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.05 19:53:00 -
[94]
How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:05:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Inumbikai
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
Idly running level 4s in hi-sec with about 5% of my attention will get me 25-30M/hr. I think you can make 20M doing level 3s if you work at it.
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Kyra Felann
Gallente Noctis Fleet Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:56:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Inumbikai I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
You can easily make that much from doing level 4 missions.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.05 20:57:00 -
[97]
Edited by: Akita T on 05/12/2009 20:58:48
Originally by: Inumbikai I almost just spit out my coffee! How the hell do you make 20mil in an hour???
20 mil per hour on average ? Oh, I guess by being LAZY (or under-skilled, or ill-equipped) while running L4s ? Or by blitzing L3s mainly for the storylines, after you also figure in storyline income ? I can think of a lot of half-decent things that could make you earn ONLY about 20 mil ISK/hour on average.
Now, talk about 50 mil ISK/hour on average, and there you might have a point, now that can be pretty tough in highsec PvE.
_
We are recruiting | Beginer's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:03:00 -
[98]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: MaxxOmega I agree with the OP this is outrageous... er... ummm.... what's the problem again?
Funnily enough you've probably stumbled on the crux of the problem with this little bit of contemptuous sarcasm, and that's that most players don't seem to able to grasp the issue. They equate casual play with cowardly play and therefore feel justified in the endless ridicule. They can't understand that not everyone is a holidaying student with 12 hours a day to play the game, or that if they were they would even want to waste that much of there life on the game. They think casual players should be forced to PvP despite being at a distinct disadvantage due to the reduced play time and lack of experience that results. They and CCP forget that although the game has been created with epic corporation politics in mind the skill system is one of the most casual-player-friendly in existance which was always going to attract a large casual player base that I would think CCP would not want to upset.
The answer, as I've already stated along with many others, is to look at high-sec as the set-and-forget runs-by-itself boring beginner player area, then throw all their efforts, cool content, etc out into 0.0 accessable only to corporations. I can think of a million-buzillion ideas to coolerfy low-sec - surely CCP have brainstorming sessions to come up with ideas. Here's some:
- Impliment a mission builder, allowing corporations of a certain size to create their own missions - an answer to filling up the game with content in short time, and similar to the very popular map building developers of FPS games release. - Start to add unique effects in certain areas on the map in 0.0, tourist locations, areas prohibited to large fleets due to 'anomolies' similar to the Kessel Run in Star Wars etc - 0.0 mission arcs with video segways. - Distribute one of a kind items of limited power through the universe. - Impliment ways for casual players to fleet up, casually - something they have been doing and have done in this patch. - Never ever ever restrict a players freedom to do as he pleases in the universe, it ****s ppl off (joining militias restricts movement, and taxing NPC corps forces you to create pointless one man corps).
If you were that casual about the game a 3% tax on mission running wouldn't even register let alone prompt you to write long diatribes on the internet about it.
If this change wasn't a change but implemented from the start it would make sense to people and nobody would question it. Now people feel entitled to have wardec immunity for free.
There is NO freedom being impinged on at all. You can stay in NPC corps and pay the tiny fee for all that that entails or you can create your own corp or join another one. All options are viable. You were taxed before and your taxed now. One minor added extra tax in exchange for a service you've since been getting for free isn't freedom crushing in the least bit.
Try again.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:03:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
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Coch Draig
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:16:00 -
[100]
I was in a bar once, i approached someone and asked for casual play. All i got was a black eye. Tell you one thing for sure.... i won't be going there again!
Originally by: Zymurgist
Locked. Petitions are the only way to deal with this issue there is nothing the forums can help you with. Please stop opening multiple threads.
Zymurgist
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Dani SP
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:17:00 -
[101]
Edited by: Dani SP on 05/12/2009 22:18:09 OP fails at understanding game mechanics... oh well.
About the millions/hour discussion. Never actually calculated it as im just fine running missions. It's definitely more profitable than mining in highsec/lowsec.
But those calculations are considering the time wastages, or are just theorical numbers? Examples:
- time spent accepting mission - time spent fitting ship with correct resistances (and maybe browsing eve survival for checking) - time spent buying/moving ammunition - time spent setting a fleet with an alt or friend - warp times - afk wastage factor - time to switch fittings and/or salvage boat and rejumping acceleration gates - time hauling your loot for those extralarge valuable modules
most times I dont bother looting/salvage as killing stuff is a faster isk generator. Opportunity cost you know
now seriously, you know those times are spent in real life. So its not like multiplying the average rat bounty per number of rats you can theorically kill per hour.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:24:00 -
[102]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
Edit: Being able to earn that much without any risk in empire ruins any other profession in EVE, btw. I'd like to hope CCP would at least nerf the drop rates of T1 mods in PvE - but I guess it won't happen.
TBH, I think CCP is too afraid to reduce L4 earnings, simply because so many of their players will be very angry about it. They can't increase the earnings in 0.0/low-sec significantly either because that'd create runaway inflation.
The gold-mine that are L4's is a major reason 0.0 is so empty these days, simply because the only thing people DO there is to fight (in blobs more often than not). That means there's very few targets for roaming gangs, meaning there ARE very few roaming gangs. Few people there also means there's little industry going on etc.
There was a time when people were REALLY living in 0.0, because ratting was the best type of income. People lived there, earned their money there, produced there, and hunted there! This, by and large, has been gone since L4's took the top position for money earning.
I think CCP's dev's know all this, but that their accountants and board are way too scared to lose a few customers to allow it to be changed
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Lord Xanthoh
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:26:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Lord Xanthoh on 05/12/2009 22:26:35
Originally by: Redart
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
Hey with today's downtime, you must have been losing another 50% of profits. Could I please have your stuffz?
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:28:00 -
[104]
Originally by: b1zz Link to the dev blog on the 11% NPC tax here.
Does not list exactly what it affects and what it does not affect.
The income sources that are affected by corp taxes are well know and easy to verify. You'll have to forgive them for not explaining the most fundamental parts of the game again.
Quote: The forum thread on the subject here.
Quoting CCP: # We would prefer that players join player corporations, or other entities that shape the world of EVE at a higher degree than the NPC corporations do, due to their impersonal and somewhat isolated role. That said, this change is not implemented to ôdestroyö NPC corps, they should be considered a small motivation to join a player corporation, where you can develop and flourish as a player.
Quoting me: # I would prefer not to play your game. Joining corps is not fun for everyone, or even most players.
Source please? Since the majority of people playing EVE are indeed in player corps, I would say that proves you are completely and utterly incorrect.
Quote: I don't like the tone of the above statement from CCP, it's not how I thought they operated.
There is nothing wrong with the "tone" of CCP's statement, and apparently thinking is not your strong point. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
isca
Gallente Cosmic Odyssey BricK sQuAD.
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Posted - 2009.12.05 22:48:00 -
[105]
Edited by: isca on 05/12/2009 22:48:19
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
1. Who the hell are you to yell the odds and try to maintain your 0% tax/0% risk advantage over the rest of us? 2. Are you REALLY a 5 year old character? Because if you were you would know that taxes only affect mission rewards/bounties and have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER on your income from trades. That is more down to your skill level in the 'trade' skillgroup you friggin n00b. 3. The excuses i have seen from ppl in this thread regarding being in Player Run corporations are blatant BS. If the CEO of the last PC you were in was a self-aggrandising ar5e then make your own corp ffs -or join a casual play based player corp... There's tons out there. 4. Stop whining and grow up. 5. Can i have your stuff?
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Ukucia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:27:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Ukucia on 05/12/2009 23:29:37
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Redart I've joined player corps in the past with 2.5% tax and my trading went down exactly 2.5% on top of the normal tax minus the 1% per lvl of accounting.
No, it didn't. Stop lying. Or stop deluding yourself, whichever of these two applies. Your trading was NEVER affected by corp tax. Whatever it is you think you saw (if you saw anything), it WASN'T the corp tax.
Back in the old days, corp tax was applied to everything that made your wallet go up.
Having it apply to direct trades between players in station was kinda annoying.
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:30:00 -
[107]
Petitioning to reintroduce the original pod grades
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:35:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Kerfira TBH, I think CCP is too afraid to reduce L4 earnings, simply because so many of their players will be very angry about it. They can't increase the earnings in 0.0/low-sec significantly either because that'd create runaway inflation.
The gold-mine that are L4's is a major reason 0.0 is so empty these days, simply because the only thing people DO there is to fight (in blobs more often than not). That means there's very few targets for roaming gangs, meaning there ARE very few roaming gangs. Few people there also means there's little industry going on etc.
There was a time when people were REALLY living in 0.0, because ratting was the best type of income. People lived there, earned their money there, produced there, and hunted there! This, by and large, has been gone since L4's took the top position for money earning.
I think CCP's dev's know all this, but that their accountants and board are way too scared to lose a few customers to allow it to be changed
True that. But how to solve it? Big nerf is out of the question. The forums would explode. So nerfing the T1 drops a little bit (which would buff T1 manufacturing a bit), making the mission rats a little bit harder and buffing 0.0 income a little might, all in all, be step in the right direction.
Of course it would not slip unnoticed. But in the end, it's for the betterment of the game. It doesn't matter if a carebear earns 20 mil or 17 mil / per hour. He will pile up isk and not spend them for anything relevant, anyways.
And he will not stick to the game because he is only loyal to his isk, not to other people, a cause or anything worhtwhile. If ISK is all what keeps him, it's bound to not last.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:37:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Ukucia Back in the old days, corp tax was applied to everything that made your wallet go up.
Having it apply to direct trades between players in station was kinda annoying.
When was that? In beta?
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Klendaxor
Caldari Venturatech Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:42:00 -
[110]
Originally by: isca Edited by: isca on 05/12/2009 22:48:19 2. Are you REALLY a 5 year old character? Because if you were you would know that taxes only affect mission rewards/bounties and have NO BEARING WHATSOEVER
I think you misunderstand his version of casual - he logged in 5 years ago, made a char, ran out his 30 days then resubbed two days ago and wet his pants
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Ukucia
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:44:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Ukucia Back in the old days, corp tax was applied to everything that made your wallet go up.
Having it apply to direct trades between players in station was kinda annoying.
When was that? In beta?
No, it was still in effect back when I started. I distinctly remember hitting "Give Money" to my shiny-new first alt to buy some skill books, and finding that she didn't end up with enough to buy 'em.
Taxes have been only on rewards and bounties for a very long time though.
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Burnharder
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:45:00 -
[112]
I have a 0% tax advantage still. It's easy. You just create your own corp and set the tax rate to zero (or 100%, which is what I do so all the cash goes to corp wallet).
Simples!
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Orion Slavegirl
Amarr Shut Up And Play WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:46:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
You are a idiot.
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:51:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia True that. But how to solve it? Big nerf is out of the question. The forums would explode. So nerfing the T1 drops a little bit (which would buff T1 manufacturing a bit), making the mission rats a little bit harder and buffing 0.0 income a little might, all in all, be step in the right direction.
Of course it would not slip unnoticed. But in the end, it's for the betterment of the game. It doesn't matter if a carebear earns 20 mil or 17 mil / per hour. He will pile up isk and not spend them for anything relevant, anyways.
And he will not stick to the game because he is only loyal to his isk, not to other people, a cause or anything worhtwhile. If ISK is all what keeps him, it's bound to not last.
Not making isk for anything "relevant"? Relevant to who? You? (snort!) And how do you know they won't stick with the game? If the game is fun, they'll stick with it.
So they can't be war-dec'd? This change isn't going to put anybody at risk that doesn't want to be at risk, and so will change nothing!
War-dec comes in, disband corp. Start new 1-man corp, rinse and repeat. CCP through the GM's have said its not an exploit to join/leave/disband corps for any reason.
Their stated reason for this change was that they wanted people interacting and "joining player corps". This change will not accomplish that.
Just annoy people.
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
ITTigerClawIK
Amarr Galactic Rangers Galactic-Rangers
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Posted - 2009.12.05 23:54:00 -
[115]
can i has your stuff
Sig space reclaimed in the name of me -courtesy of Tiggy ([email protected]) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:06:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Kerfira
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
Edit: Being able to earn that much without any risk in empire ruins any other profession in EVE, btw. I'd like to hope CCP would at least nerf the drop rates of T1 mods in PvE - but I guess it won't happen.
TBH, I think CCP is too afraid to reduce L4 earnings, simply because so many of their players will be very angry about it. They can't increase the earnings in 0.0/low-sec significantly either because that'd create runaway inflation.
The gold-mine that are L4's is a major reason 0.0 is so empty these days, simply because the only thing people DO there is to fight (in blobs more often than not). That means there's very few targets for roaming gangs, meaning there ARE very few roaming gangs. Few people there also means there's little industry going on etc.
There was a time when people were REALLY living in 0.0, because ratting was the best type of income. People lived there, earned their money there, produced there, and hunted there! This, by and large, has been gone since L4's took the top position for money earning.
I think CCP's dev's know all this, but that their accountants and board are way too scared to lose a few customers to allow it to be changed
I think CCP know about it, and they do want to change it, and have decided to deal with it by boiling the frog. There wont be a sudden huge state change. There will just be a gradual series of almost imperceptible mission nerfs, combined with a slow increase in the value of 0.0
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:12:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Daemonspirit Not making isk for anything "relevant"? Relevant to who? You? (snort!) And how do you know they won't stick with the game? If the game is fun, they'll stick with it.
What are you talkin about?
Originally by: Daemonspirit So they can't be war-dec'd? This change isn't going to put anybody at risk that doesn't want to be at risk, and so will change nothing!
Why is there athread about it, if nothing changes?
Originally by: Daemonspirit War-dec comes in, disband corp. Start new 1-man corp, rinse and repeat. CCP through the GM's have said its not an exploit to join/leave/disband corps for any reason.
True that. Loophole that needs to be closed. No need for even having wardecs if it's too easy to get around them.
Originally by: Daemonspirit Their stated reason for this change was that they wanted people interacting and "joining player corps". This change will not accomplish that.
It's an incentive to do so. CCP will not scare away those really not wanting. They will just have to pay a ridiculous low amount of ISK for beeing in an NPC corp.
Originally by: Daemonspirit Just annoy people.
Correct. Incentive to join a player corp.
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The Wicked1
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:18:00 -
[118]
Playing for 5 years and you honestly think that any one here cares and that the Devs really read these forums? Sure you've been here 5 years?
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Babyface Thirteen
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:37:00 -
[119]
The human race is so full of fail that I think I need to cry a little.
And am i reffering to the OP? Obviously not since he probably sit and laugh at all the redarts that reply to his funniness.
Do anything the OP post make sense? For the observant reader, no. So why do people think he is serious? Maybe OP is trying to mirror the behavior of the average forum user?
Maybe I should start calling stupid people for Redarts. Then I can offend them and they will not even realize that they get offended. But on the other hand its no fun to offend people if they dont get hurt by it...
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Dani SP
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:45:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Babyface Thirteen The human race is so full of fail that I think I need to cry a little.
And am i reffering to the OP? Obviously not since he probably sit and laugh at all the redarts that reply to his funniness.
Do anything the OP post make sense? For the observant reader, no. So why do people think he is serious? Maybe OP is trying to mirror the behavior of the average forum user?
Maybe I should start calling stupid people for Redarts. Then I can offend them and they will not even realize that they get offended. But on the other hand its no fun to offend people if they dont get hurt by it...
you are assuming OP is a troll and all these humans answering are redarts.
but I think he's not a troll as this kind of whine is too common among NPC playerbase (ingame).
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Tom Peeping
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Posted - 2009.12.06 00:52:00 -
[121]
nah.... he's an obvious troll. The "especially trading" made it too obvious.
I was going to call it a fail troll, but he really got a lot of you all steamed up, so I guess I gotta call it an awesome troll. Who can argue with what actually worked?
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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:31:00 -
[122]
Edited by: Redart on 06/12/2009 01:39:02
Heh. 4 pages in a day. Not bad.
I win.
Some of the replies were pretty pathetic though, some of you should be ashamed. Quit being forum trolls and play the game already. Quick to bash a casual player for not knowing the ins and outs of the most complicated MMORPG ever. But, instead of playing, you're here.... combing the forums, calling people with negative security status carebears and stupid for playing a game the way he or she wants to play it, casually.
The best part is that some of you make posts talking about nothing other than the age of my character, but you forget that you can look up any player in the game and see when they joined.
EVE wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the freedom. Most of you don't seem to understand that. Although this wasn't real, I still do not agree with the reasoning behind the NPC Corp tax.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:35:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Dani SP Edited by: Dani SP on 05/12/2009 22:18:09 OP fails at understanding game mechanics... oh well.
About the millions/hour discussion. Never actually calculated it as im just fine running missions. It's definitely more profitable than mining in highsec/lowsec.
But those calculations are considering the time wastages, or are just theorical numbers? Examples:
- time spent accepting mission - time spent fitting ship with correct resistances (and maybe browsing eve survival for checking) - time spent buying/moving ammunition - time spent setting a fleet with an alt or friend - warp times - afk wastage factor - time to switch fittings and/or salvage boat and rejumping acceleration gates - time hauling your loot for those extralarge valuable modules
most times I dont bother looting/salvage as killing stuff is a faster isk generator. Opportunity cost you know
now seriously, you know those times are spent in real life. So its not like multiplying the average rat bounty per number of rats you can theorically kill per hour.
counted: time spent actively doing things so accepting the mission, being in the mission, warping to/in/back from the mission.
now say I run 3 missions and go afk, going to count the time spend running the mission but not the time spent afk, otherwise I'd also have to count all the time I'm not logged in at all and then well isk/hour becomes a bit of a fuzzy concept.
now suppose I get up to get a drink during worlds collide when going between gates, gotta love travel time in missions. I'm going to count that time. mostly just because I'm lazy and it shows up in the journal.
as for time hauling, well I'm usually going to jita to buy stuff, just taking some loot as an added bonus. that and I haul stuff very rarely.
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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manstick
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:45:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 06/12/2009 01:39:02
Heh. 4 pages in a day. Not bad.
I win.
Some of the replies were pretty pathetic though, some of you should be ashamed. Quit being forum trolls and play the game already. Quick to bash a casual player for not knowing the ins and outs of the most complicated MMORPG ever. But, instead of playing, you're here.... combing the forums, calling people with negative security status carebears and stupid for playing a game the way he or she wants to play it, casually.
The best part is that some of you make posts talking about nothing other than the age of my character, but you forget that you can look up any player in the game and see when they joined.
EVE wouldn't exist if it wasn't for the freedom. Most of you don't seem to understand that. Although this wasn't real, I still do not agree with the reasoning behind the NPC Corp tax.
I also truly believe what I put in my poasts but also do not post them in any "real" way.
o/\o
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:49:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Tippia on 06/12/2009 01:51:14
Originally by: Redart Quick to bash a casual player for not knowing the ins and outs of the most complicated MMORPG ever.
It's more a matter of bashing someone for not putting the slightest effort into knowing about or understanding the mechanics he's complaining about.
This "special" someone (and I mean "special" in that way) is basically complaining that he hates all these orcs and dwarves in EVE and thinks we should all be flying spaceships instead, dammit!! ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.06 02:04:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 06/12/2009 01:51:14
Originally by: Redart Quick to bash a casual player for not knowing the ins and outs of the most complicated MMORPG ever.
It's more a matter of bashing someone for not putting the slightest effort into knowing about or understanding the mechanics he's complaining about.
This "special" someone (and I mean "special" in that way) is basically complaining that he hates all these orcs and dwarves in EVE and thinks we should all be flying spaceships instead, dammit!!
Not even in the slightest. But if you want to be an elitist about it, go ahead. I'm not going to stop you.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 02:19:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Redart Not even in the slightest.
…apart from the bits where you don't know how taxes work, where you don't know how casual gaming and corps mix, and where you don't understand what CCP is doing.
So sure, not in the slightest apart from those, which cover all you complaints. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Reiisha
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 02:56:00 -
[128]
Originally by: Redart Although this wasn't real, I still do not agree with the reasoning behind the NPC Corp tax.
So being immune to wardecs should be free..... Why exactly?
NPC corp tax... 1) ...is a good way to introduce an isk sink, something the EVE economy needs. 2) ...provides a small incentive to join player corps, a very large part of what EVE is about. 3) ...is a decent way of balancing out the immunity to wardecs in noobcorps.
Just the third point on it's own is more than good enough reason to have npc corp tax. Adding in the first 2 makes it a no-brainer. I have absolutely no idea why people would be against npc corp tax, aside from whining about bounty and mission cuts, which the OP isn't even involved in.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.06 03:15:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Redart on 06/12/2009 03:21:48
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Redart Not even in the slightest.
àapart from the bits where you don't know how taxes work, where you don't know how casual gaming and corps mix, and where you don't understand what CCP is doing.
So sure, not in the slightest apart from those, which cover all you complaints.
I don't think you understand. This was to see how the horrible forum community of half intelligent elitists we have here, would react to a player who doesn't know alot about the game (or cares to) and who wants to play the game the way they want to play it.
You obviously don't understand what it's like to be in an NPC corp and not want to deal with a corp. Casual or not. You can see in my employment history, that I have been in an NPC corp for a very long time. I have been in both ends of the hardcore spectrum and have tried to find casual corps on my alts. The best place to be, for me, is an NPC corp. It's large, it's virtually anon and nobody really cares about anyone else, other than that they are a person playing just like them and wants to chat. To spend time to look for a player ran corp is much more time spent on something that these people do not care much about.
Taxing them for this is wrong. War decs are a joke. EVE is large and so is high sec, most of the players in the game can just switch AOs and never see anyone from that corp again. Those who are using the NPC corps ,for things other than that's their home, are not effected by the tax one bit. Paying to be free from War Decs? Psh. Look up the word "Casual". Everyone outside the NPC corp, doesn't even know I exist. Most in it, don't even know I exist. What am I paying for again? Oh right, some pathetic forum troll's reason to post.
You are also, very obviously not a casual player or spend more time on the forums than in the game. It's one of the two, or possibly both.
You're also an elitist, get over yourself. It's just a game, you know that right? You and people like you are the worst kind of players in the game. Your knowledge of tax and stuff scares me.
Want the truth? I didn't know there was tax till after I was playing for a year. Because, I simply did not care. I was too busy learning the ropes of PVP, had a good home playing with players I had been with for almost 3yrs before EVE existed. You don't know how people play or what they look for in the game.
But, instead you jump to conclusions and think people are stupid for not knowing something you find simple and obvious.
You use a computer, why don't you know as much as I do about computers? You mean you don't know how to convert 32bit binary to hex in your head? What kind of moron are you? The computer does it constantly and throws them at you all the time. Oh right, I have a BS in Computer Science and I spent years studying the ins and outs of how and why computers work.
Same principle, smaller scale. (If you can do that, it doesn't make the point I'm trying to make any less valid, because most people can't.)
PS: This is pretty much a reply to everyone who flamed the original post, not necessarily Tippia.
Flame on. But, I'm done with this thread. I made my point.
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
DigitalCommunist
November Corporation
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Posted - 2009.12.06 03:23:00 -
[130]
To: OP Re: SENSATIONALIST HEADLINE
Stop posting sensationalist headlines with zero content, thanx :>
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Redart
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.06 04:41:00 -
[131]
Originally by: DigitalCommunist To: OP Re: SENSATIONALIST HEADLINE
Stop posting sensationalist headlines with zero content, thanx :>
Heh, 6 of 1 half a dozen of another. This thread delivers. :)
^Click the Sig GorgeousGamers.com |
Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.06 05:46:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: DigitalCommunist To: OP Re: SENSATIONALIST HEADLINE
Stop posting sensationalist headlines with zero content, thanx :>
Heh, 6 of 1 half a dozen of another. This thread delivers. :)
No, it does not deliver anything except evidence some people like to troll. So what's new? People responded to what you said. Again, so what?
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Lady Spank
Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.06 09:02:00 -
[133]
NEWS AT 11! Troll laughs at people trolling on the forum, believes he has one up on other trolls.
Originally by: Tirus Sinobi Your response has set your intelligence barrier so low that anything you post from here on that breaches it, will have to be considered posted by somebody else.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 09:15:00 -
[134]
NEWS AT 11.05: people who act dumb and ignorant on the EvE-O forums get treated as if they were dumb and ignorant instead of getting hugs and being told that everyone is special.
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Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.06 09:55:00 -
[135]
ITT Butthurt Forum Elitists lick their wounds after troll makes them all look teh stupidz. GG OP. +1 Internets for u.
As I've said many times, I really don't care about the NPC tax. I don't partake in the sorts of activities where other people really matter to me, so I've no need to be in a 'proper' player corp, or remain in an NPC corp.
I play how I want when I feel like it and get my money's worth from the game.
I dare all the people whining about this, that or the other game features across these forums to be able to say the same.
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b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.06 10:08:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Gorefacer
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: MaxxOmega I agree with the OP this is outrageous... er... ummm.... what's the problem again?
Funnily enough you've probably stumbled on the crux of the problem with this little bit of contemptuous sarcasm, and that's that most players don't seem to able to grasp the issue...
If you were that casual about the game a 3% tax on mission running wouldn't even register let alone prompt you to write long diatribes on the internet about it.
If this change wasn't a change but implemented from the start it would make sense to people and nobody would question it. Now people feel entitled to have wardec immunity for free.
There is NO freedom being impinged on at all. You can stay in NPC corps and pay the tiny fee for all that that entails or you can create your own corp or join another one. All options are viable. You were taxed before and your taxed now. One minor added extra tax in exchange for a service you've since been getting for free isn't freedom crushing in the least bit.
Try again.
lol. Dude, I've already stated in this thread that the 11% tax does not affect me, at all. I repeat, what I'm worried about is the direction CCP are taking with this, using a whip instead of a carrot to get players into corps. The blog states they may increase the tax if it does not have the desired affect. A dev in the information portal thread on the subject has even stated he's had wet dreams about increasing it to 100% - that would impinge my freedom to choose. But thanks anyway for confirming my point that most can't grasp the issue.
Casual players want changes that decrease the time required to enjoy the game, not changes that increase that time. Jump clones were a very welcome addition, NPC corp tax increases are not. Now it may be that this change simply brings NPC's to a level playing field with PC's, and fair enough if it is - 11% isn't particularly onerous. But if CCP push it further - and the indications are that it's definately an option - it may become onerous.
I think the points been made by the OP. Reading some of the replies in here however I doubt that points ever going to be accepted by the corpies and hardcore players; I can only hope it gets through to CCP. I will summaries the point into an easily understandable statement: leave me and my play-style the &%#@ alone!
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.12.06 10:20:00 -
[137]
Edited by: Forge Lag on 06/12/2009 10:22:06 Ah sure the 11% is fee for wardec immunity.
So, the inability to set pos and corp contracts is the fee for what exactly?
Take your 11% tithe but let me set the damn POS, i will gladly pay this broken idiotic half-asset tax for wardec immunity then. Or actually, I will not. Oh, and let me issue my own wardecs. That would make the 11% theft fair.
Edit: This is also no isk sink, it is throttling isk faucet, at best, sometimes, maybe, when it actually applies.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.12.06 11:05:00 -
[138]
Edited by: Kerfira on 06/12/2009 11:05:40
Originally by: Reiisha 3) ...is a decent way of balancing out the immunity to wardecs in noobcorps.
You're STILL effectively immune to wardec's in 1-man corp!
Wardec coming in (takes 24 hours, cost 2m ISK) Disband corp (takes 5 seconds) Create new corp (cost 1.6m ISK)
Viola! Wardec immune (at a small cost). The cost to create a corp is less than the NPC corp taxes paid from ONE average L4 mission. This is NOT an exploit as stated by GM Nythanos (post #26)!
The main reason the tax is a stupid feature is that it will not achieve the objective it's aiming at, because that is caused by something else, the imbalance in risk/reward between L4's in highsec and every other way of making money. I've summed this up here.
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Alexander Universe
Universal Mayhem
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Posted - 2009.12.06 11:17:00 -
[139]
Edited by: Alexander Universe on 06/12/2009 11:20:31 Edited by: Alexander Universe on 06/12/2009 11:19:46 Reading what you've said, Redart, this game is just not for you.
I'm saying "not for you" because you are just one of those people who can manage in a world like EVE. You can actually make a laid back corp with a bunch of friends to mission and trade and chat with. Play 1h a day or less even. You just haven't got the guts or wits and thats not the end of the world. There's lots to do in the world of computer games for you, I'm sure you'll find something that will suit you.
No reason to cry on forums here about a change that is best for the majority of the playerbase.
Just pack your things, contract them to some newbie to make the world of EVE a bit brighter for him or her and go play some game YOU can play casually.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 12:25:00 -
[140]
Edited by: Tippia on 06/12/2009 12:30:57
Originally by: Redart I don't think you understand.
More than you do.
Quote: This was to see how the horrible forum community of half intelligent elitists we have here, would react to a player who doesn't know alot about the game (or cares to) and who wants to play the game the way they want to play it.
They rip him the new one he so clearly deserves. You didn't know that? Now you need to test what said elitists do when people approach them sensibly instead of by being an self-professed idiot. [spoiler: they also get what they deserve]
Quote: You obviously don't understand what it's like to be in an NPC corp and not want to deal with a corp.
Riiight… The research genius strikes again. Take a look at my illustrious corp history, rub a couple of nerve endings together and see what falls out.
Quote: The best place to be, for me, is an NPC corp. It's large, it's virtually anon and nobody really cares about anyone else, other than that they are a person playing just like them and wants to chat.
You've obviously been in the wrong NPC corps, to say nothing of the wrong PC corps. That's quite an accomplishment.
Quote: Taxing them for this is wrong.
Why?
Quote: Those who are using the NPC corps ,for things other than that's their home, are not effected by the tax one bit.
You still don't understand how taxes work, I see.
Quote: Paying to be free from War Decs? Psh. Look up the word "Casual".
casual |ˈkaʒjʊəl| |-zj-| adjective- relaxed and unconcerned
- made or done without much thought or premeditation
- done or acting in a desultory way
- done or acting without sufficient care or thoroughness
- not regular or permanent
- (of a worker) employed on a temporary or irregular basis
- (of a sexual relationship or encounter) occurring between people who are not regular or established sexual partners.
- [ attrib. ] happening by chance; accidental
- without formality of style, manner, or procedure, in particular
- (of clothes or a style of dress) suitable for everyday wear rather than formal occasions.
- (of a social event) not characterized by particular social conventions.
- (of a place or environment) relaxed and friendly
Now what? Playing the game casually has nothing to do with wardecs.
Quote: You are also, very obviously not a casual player or spend more time on the forums than in the game. It's one of the two, or possibly both.
…yes, and? Where do those two options lead us?
Quote: You're also an elitist, get over yourself. It's just a game, you know that right? You and people like you are the worst kind of players in the game. Your knowledge of tax and stuff scares me. [yadda yadda]
It scares you that I know about a fundamental game mechanic? Ok, here's something really scary: I know that you use small hybrid ammo in small hybrid weapons. Goddam I'm 1337 – you can't handle the 1337ness!
This is still missing the point that it's trivial to find out what it does, and anyone who complains about it without this 2-second investment in research (and yes, it's harder to find out the ammo requirements for the guns than about how taxes work) deserves every bit of being slapped over the head they get.
Quote: You mean you don't know how to convert 32bit binary to hex in your head?
Yes, it's a good example: you're seemingly trying to make it out to be a hard problem that your BS lets you do, when in fact it's a first-month algebra problem, completely unrelated to the field you're talking about, that only requires you to know 4 bits. Kind of analogous to how you think knowing about taxes requires an off-the-wall levels of EVE-nerdiness. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
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Azirapheal
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.06 13:14:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:47:15
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Trading is not affected by the tax.
Mission running will only be affected bounty/mission reward wise. That's approx. 35% of the total mission income. So we're talking about 3.3% less income from mission running.
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
Ah well, so be it. I've joined player corps in the past with 2.5% tax and my trading went down exactly 2.5% on top of the normal tax minus the 1% per lvl of accounting.
Even still, there is no reason for the NPC Corp tax other than to push players into doing something they don't want to do. Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
When I did play, it was fun to chat in the Minnie NPC Corp chats. There is some good people there. (not on this char of course)
you still pay scc sales tax and brokers fees.... n omatter where you are or what corp your in, have done since forever.
you have been exposed as a complete tosspot with no ideas about mechanics... id even hazard that you bought your character instead of played it.
dont let the door hit you on the way out, and i dont want your stuff... sounds pretty worthless if your moaning about the basics you should already know.
Originally by: Azirapheal i never ever thought id live to see the day.... that titans were nerfed for being FOTM HAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist SoonÖ
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Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.12.06 13:41:00 -
[142]
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 06/12/2009 13:42:22
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Edited by: Nika Dekaia on 05/12/2009 22:10:04
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
Edit: Being able to earn that much without any risk in empire ruins any other profession in EVE, btw. I'd like to hope CCP would at least nerf the drop rates of T1 mods in PvE - but I guess it won't happen.
Very early in the thread linked above people call BS on the originator. He claimed very high LP income, very high salvage income, and either used two accounts, or stopped the clock for salvaging. And of course he was using the excellent equipment and had all the imission-boosting skills.
Any discussion of highSec mission income based on these fake numbers is meaningless.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.12.06 14:00:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Lady Spank How the hell do you NOT make 20m per hour seems more pertinent?
This. That was a rather low estimate on what can be made with lvl 4 missioin. See Kerfiras statistic (again) on what is possible to be earned on lvl 4 missions (up to 45 mil, which is ridiculous).
Edit: Being able to earn that much without any risk in empire ruins any other profession in EVE, btw. I'd like to hope CCP would at least nerf the drop rates of T1 mods in PvE - but I guess it won't happen.
Very early in the thread linked above people call BS on the originator. He claimed very high LP income, very high salvage income, and either used two accounts, or stopped the clock for salvaging. And of course he was using the excellent equipment and had all the imission-boosting skills.
Any discussion of highSec mission income based on these fake numbers is meaningless.
And if you had bothered reading the thread, you'd have seen that the numbers were verified by a lot of players (and more later in the thread), including some well-known forum personalities.
All statistics were made FREELY available, and the people questioning them never got beyond the "I refuse to believe this is possible!" argument and into actually questioning any numbers.
LP value was what I got (note, if you do missions for a popular corp, you don't get a good ISK/LP price), salvage/mineral value was calculated using Jita prices, I only used one account, I included salvage/loot/travel time (time was from mission acceptance until last loot/salvage was in my hangar). My character and equipment was good, but not perfect.
The numbers were actually on the low side as I didn't include extra money from named items, did the missions ineffectively by killing all NPC's and looting/salvaging when it would have been more effective to just go to the next mission.
Please provide ARGUMENTS backed by NUMBERS why my figures are supposedly incorrect!
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Skalet
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Posted - 2009.12.06 14:53:00 -
[144]
lolz, i love his thread.
facts: IFyou are smart, you can make more cash missioning than any other profession hands down.
IFyou are dumb, cannot grasp the concepts the game provides and are a decent problem solver you will fail.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:11:00 -
[145]
Originally by: Skalet
facts: IFyou are smart, you can make more cash missioning than any other profession hands down.
You just proved you aren't very smart
Missioning is potentially good ISK but not even close to the best moneymaker in game.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
Erinyes Nazgul
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:26:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Redart This was to see how the horrible forum community of half intelligent elitists we have here....I made my point.
So your profound lack of knowledge and poor reasoning were really just a cover to troll "half intelligent elitists?"
Wow. That's sad.
Take a bit of your own advice: "It's just a game."
Relax and enjoy the game for what it is. Or not...and in that case, can i have your stuff?
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Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:35:00 -
[147]
@Kerfira
I read a couple of pages of that linked thread, and noted that everyone responding was calling BS on you. My personal experience, at 7 million SP (approx 1 million in "learning" skills): I can make 12 to 15 million per hour spent dedicated to L4 missions.
Obviously I'm not the most efficient mission runner in highSec. But 3 times the income? Of course I'm skeptical.
Perhaps if you have 50 million SP, use a few billion worth of ship/modules, optimal skills for missions, optimal standings, and the very best agent in the very best NPC corp in the very best system in EvE you can average 45 million per hour. Or maybe you're getting surprisingly frequent drops of 1 billion ISK modules /lol.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:42:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz I read a couple of pages of that linked thread, and noted that everyone responding was calling BS on you.
Then you didn't actually read the thread, seeing as how there were plenty of people agreeing with him.
Quote: My personal experience, at 7 million SP (approx 1 million in "learning" skills): I can make 12 to 15 million per hour spent dedicated to L4 missions.
Obviously I'm not the most efficient mission runner in highSec. But 3 times the income? Of course I'm skeptical.
You won't be once you understand what works and what doesn't. He's not even running them optimally and he's not cherry-picking the best missions. In a year, it'll seem entirely reasonable, bordering on the low side.
Quote: Perhaps if you have 50 million SP, use a few billion worth of ship/modules, optimal skills for missions, optimal standings, and the very best agent in the very best NPC corp in the very best system in EvE you can average 45 million per hour.
You don't particularly need either of those, but you might creep up on some understanding of where mission hubs and the PvE fitting discussions in the Ships & Modules and Mission & Complexes forums come from. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Jarik Utoni
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:43:00 -
[149]
Originally by: Redart Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
obviously they are CCP and they can do whatever the hell they please though i'm sure they had plenty or player support for this move ---- -Jarik Utoni, Cov Ops Pilot (in training) d(^.^)b |
Gsptlsnz
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:48:00 -
[150]
Edited by: Gsptlsnz on 06/12/2009 17:03:49
lol @ Tippia
You responded to this in another thread didn't you? Aren't you the one that just states the opposite, and never provides any content?. If so you're right on target again. If not you should find the other guy - you could entertain yourselves with an endless recursive discussion.
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Highwind Cid
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Posted - 2009.12.06 16:58:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:39:31 Who the hell are you to try an make me join a player corp?
I have been on and off for almost 5yrs now. I have quit so many times and came back so many times, but it is this recent time that I actually really started to enjoy the game because I have not been bound by a corporation. I have been treating the game more as a hobby, than a game I have to play everyday.
I enjoy running missions and I enjoy trading station to station. Both of these are hurt severely by the NPC Corp tax. I do not want to be in a corp, between my 3 characters I have been in many corps and the game simply isn't for the casual player when you move into corps. There is no way around it. Especially trading, any % over normal tax is very painful since you are buying and selling for large quantities for much smaller profits than you put into it. 5% can take away ALL profit on what is considered to be good trades. You killed that, good job.
Trying to force me to join a corporation that's ran by other players is absolutely ludicrous. I would expect that many casual players will be doing the same.
Why not make a casuals corp? You can set the tax to 0% and you'll work together with people that are like minded.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.06 17:10:00 -
[152]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz You responded to this in another thread didn't you? Aren't you the one that just states the opposite, and never provides any content?.
No. As for content, it's in the thread in question. I suggest you read it instead of assuming it will contain what you wish it contained. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Skalet
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Posted - 2009.12.06 17:25:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Skalet
facts: IFyou are smart, you can make more cash missioning than any other profession hands down.
You just proved you aren't very smart
Missioning is potentially good ISK but not even close to the best moneymaker in game.
get two accounts make one account the armor rep/salvager make the other the insane dps machine make 50+mill an hour semi afk.
The end
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.06 17:30:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Skalet
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Skalet
facts: IFyou are smart, you can make more cash missioning than any other profession hands down.
You just proved you aren't very smart
Missioning is potentially good ISK but not even close to the best moneymaker in game.
get two accounts make one account the armor rep/salvager make the other the insane dps machine make 50+mill an hour semi afk.
The end
Why bother when I can make four times that with one account without leaving a station? Nevermind the ISK available in WH exploitation (not missions!)
Come on, think a little harder... many things in EVE blow mission income out of the water. Missions are just good and easy (keyword) money, not omgamazingISK.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
Kerfira
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Posted - 2009.12.06 17:32:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Gsptlsnz @Kerfira
I read a couple of pages of that linked thread, and noted that everyone responding was calling BS on you. My personal experience, at 7 million SP (approx 1 million in "learning" skills): I can make 12 to 15 million per hour spent dedicated to L4 missions.
Obviously I'm not the most efficient mission runner in highSec. But 3 times the income? Of course I'm skeptical.
Perhaps if you have 50 million SP, use a few billion worth of ship/modules, optimal skills for missions, optimal standings, and the very best agent in the very best NPC corp in the very best system in EvE you can average 45 million per hour. Or maybe you're getting surprisingly frequent drops of 1 billion ISK modules /lol.
So essentially you're saying that "I refuse to believe this is possible!", and don't provide any info except one piece which is easily refutable!
15m ISK is LESS than the ISK gained from LP for a Guristas Extravaganza mission, which takes me less than 1 hour to complete if blitzing. Then there are rewards, bounties and loot on top of that!
GE is not even one of the best missions if you look at ISK/time average.....
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.12.06 17:41:00 -
[156]
If missions are the issue, why did CCP increase the number of agents, gave most of them to Caldari and concentrated them in high pop spots so you cou can pick and chose mission and do marketwhoring while you are at it?
They did not even try to put some "competition" or variety or opportunity cost into mission running, quite on the contrary.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.06 19:42:00 -
[157]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: Gorefacer
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: MaxxOmega I agree with the OP this is outrageous... er... ummm.... what's the problem again?
Funnily enough you've probably stumbled on the crux of the problem with this little bit of contemptuous sarcasm, and that's that most players don't seem to able to grasp the issue...
If you were that casual about the game a 3% tax on mission running wouldn't even register let alone prompt you to write long diatribes on the internet about it.
If this change wasn't a change but implemented from the start it would make sense to people and nobody would question it. Now people feel entitled to have wardec immunity for free.
There is NO freedom being impinged on at all. You can stay in NPC corps and pay the tiny fee for all that that entails or you can create your own corp or join another one. All options are viable. You were taxed before and your taxed now. One minor added extra tax in exchange for a service you've since been getting for free isn't freedom crushing in the least bit.
Try again.
lol. Dude, I've already stated in this thread that the 11% tax does not affect me, at all. I repeat, what I'm worried about is the direction CCP are taking with this, using a whip instead of a carrot to get players into corps. The blog states they may increase the tax if it does not have the desired affect. A dev in the information portal thread on the subject has even stated he's had wet dreams about increasing it to 100% - that would impinge my freedom to choose. But thanks anyway for confirming my point that most can't grasp the issue.
Casual players want changes that decrease the time required to enjoy the game, not changes that increase that time. Jump clones were a very welcome addition, NPC corp tax increases are not. Now it may be that this change simply brings NPC's to a level playing field with PC's, and fair enough if it is - 11% isn't particularly onerous. But if CCP push it further - and the indications are that it's definately an option - it may become onerous.
I think the points been made by the OP. Reading some of the replies in here however I doubt that points ever going to be accepted by the corpies and hardcore players; I can only hope it gets through to CCP. I will summaries the point into an easily understandable statement: leave me and my play-style the &%#@ alone!
There's not much to grasp. Thus far your play-style has been left alone. You can continue to play the way you have been. A 3% mission tax is a very minor inconvenience/cost in exchange for the minor advantage of wardec immunity. It sounds like your complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
If you want to argue the point that CCP will do something unfairly tax related in the future then that's fine but I see no point in participating as I have no idea what they will end up doing. I think what HAS been done is not unfair or out of line though for the reasons I've already outlined.
I think I just got trolled again, these guys are good.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Skalet
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Posted - 2009.12.06 19:49:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Skalet
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Skalet
facts: IFyou are smart, you can make more cash missioning than any other profession hands down.
You just proved you aren't very smart
Missioning is potentially good ISK but not even close to the best moneymaker in game.
get two accounts make one account the armor rep/salvager make the other the insane dps machine make 50+mill an hour semi afk.
The end
Why bother when I can make four times that with one account without leaving a station? Nevermind the ISK available in WH exploitation (not missions!)
Come on, think a little harder... many things in EVE blow mission income out of the water. Missions are just good and easy (keyword) money, not omgamazingISK.
heh ive gone past the missioning days tbh, but i was merely stating that its very easy to make alot of cash by that.
now having said that, i do make more than that nowdays, but thats a combo of T2 ship production, and other sources.
still in the end, if anyone is having trouble making isk relatively easy in EVE it is thier problem for not realizing the potential for making isk in every facet of EVE.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 19:56:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Gsptlsnz You responded to this in another thread didn't you? Aren't you the one that just states the opposite, and never provides any content?.
No. As for content, it's in the thread in question. I suggest you read it instead of assuming it will contain what you wish it contained.
Small chance of that
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.06 20:19:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Gorefacer There's not much to grasp. Thus far your play-style has been left alone. You can continue to play the way you have been. A 3% mission tax is a very minor inconvenience/cost in exchange for the minor advantage of wardec immunity. It sounds like your complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
If you want to argue the point that CCP will do something unfairly tax related in the future then that's fine but I see no point in participating as I have no idea what they will end up doing. I think what HAS been done is not unfair or out of line though for the reasons I've already outlined.
I think I just got trolled again, these guys are good.
Wardec immunity isn't a very good RP reason for the tax, considering the downsides to being in the NPC corp already (compared to a player corp). Lack of a corp wallet, hangar and POS access to name a few. It also only seems to target a specific playstyle, since it doesn't affect traders / builders / miners etc. Are they not important to get out of the NPC corps or something?
Doesn't affect me personally, and I'm not necessarily against it because it's not hard to work around the actual tax part. It's the loss of social interaction in the NPC corps that worries me more. These players probably will just end up leaving after sitting in their one man corp for a few months and getting bored (some of the local a**holes probably won't care but that's unfortunate, because any player loss in EVE is a bad thing).
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 20:26:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Gorefacer There's not much to grasp. Thus far your play-style has been left alone. You can continue to play the way you have been. A 3% mission tax is a very minor inconvenience/cost in exchange for the minor advantage of wardec immunity. It sounds like your complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
If you want to argue the point that CCP will do something unfairly tax related in the future then that's fine but I see no point in participating as I have no idea what they will end up doing. I think what HAS been done is not unfair or out of line though for the reasons I've already outlined.
I think I just got trolled again, these guys are good.
Wardec immunity isn't a very good RP reason for the tax, considering the downsides to being in the NPC corp already (compared to a player corp). Lack of a corp wallet, hangar and POS access to name a few. It also only seems to target a specific playstyle, since it doesn't affect traders / builders / miners etc. Are they not important to get out of the NPC corps or something?
Doesn't affect me personally, and I'm not necessarily against it because it's not hard to work around the actual tax part. It's the loss of social interaction in the NPC corps that worries me more. These players probably will just end up leaving after sitting in their one man corp for a few months and getting bored (some of the local a**holes probably won't care but that's unfortunate, because any player loss in EVE is a bad thing).
because it's impossible to set up a chat channel, right?
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.06 20:39:00 -
[162]
Originally by: Malcanis because it's impossible to set up a chat channel, right?
Of course not, it's just impractical. I've had one set up from my last corp and it went well for a few weeks, but people start disappearing from it and now it's just me and one other guy most of the time with the occasional busy period of 4-5 people tops. Since NPC corps cycle players regularly this isn't an issue, and many of them are new, need help and have questions to ask so there's a lot going on in chat already.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 20:40:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Malcanis because it's impossible to set up a chat channel, right?
Of course not, it's just impractical. I've had one set up from my last corp and it went well for a few weeks, but people start disappearing from it and now it's just me and one other guy most of the time with the occasional busy period of 4-5 people tops. Since NPC corps cycle players regularly this isn't an issue, and many of them are new, need help and have questions to ask so there's a lot going on in chat already.
Pay me 11% of your income and I'll sort it out for you.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.06 20:48:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Gorefacer There's not much to grasp. Thus far your play-style has been left alone. You can continue to play the way you have been. A 3% mission tax is a very minor inconvenience/cost in exchange for the minor advantage of wardec immunity. It sounds like your complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
If you want to argue the point that CCP will do something unfairly tax related in the future then that's fine but I see no point in participating as I have no idea what they will end up doing. I think what HAS been done is not unfair or out of line though for the reasons I've already outlined.
I think I just got trolled again, these guys are good.
Wardec immunity isn't a very good RP reason for the tax, considering the downsides to being in the NPC corp already (compared to a player corp). Lack of a corp wallet, hangar and POS access to name a few. It also only seems to target a specific playstyle, since it doesn't affect traders / builders / miners etc. Are they not important to get out of the NPC corps or something?
Doesn't affect me personally, and I'm not necessarily against it because it's not hard to work around the actual tax part. It's the loss of social interaction in the NPC corps that worries me more. These players probably will just end up leaving after sitting in their one man corp for a few months and getting bored (some of the local a**holes probably won't care but that's unfortunate, because any player loss in EVE is a bad thing).
Perhaps it isn't a good RP reason. My main point is that currently nobody is being "forced" to do anything. It's a small downside for residing in a corp that (as far as I understand it) CCP never intended for people to hang out long in anyway. What I don't get is that many things in the game are taxed but there is no great outcry at them, why this one?
If I had or have in the future a character in one of these corps I'd either decide it's not worth paying the tax and get around it or decide it's worth the tiny fee not worry about tax dodging or war decs. Where's the problem?
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.06 21:03:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Gorefacer
If I had or have in the future a character in one of these corps I'd either decide it's not worth paying the tax and get around it or decide it's worth the tiny fee not worry about tax dodging or war decs. Where's the problem?
The fee might not be so tiny, depending on how you play. Ratting / complexing is almost taxed fully unless you salvage and loot everything (not always possible or profitable). That goes back to how this doesn't affect everyone's playstyle.
What about players in NPC corps who live in 0.0? They're being taxed for... nothing! (because wardecs are irrelevant)
Now, I was all for "more incentive to join a player corp" especially since I don't trust anybody (like I really don't care much for the idea of giving a bunch of guys unwritten consent to shoot and kill me without consequence) but the more I look at this particular feature, the more silly it seems.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.06 21:27:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
Originally by: Gorefacer
If I had or have in the future a character in one of these corps I'd either decide it's not worth paying the tax and get around it or decide it's worth the tiny fee not worry about tax dodging or war decs. Where's the problem?
The fee might not be so tiny, depending on how you play. Ratting / complexing is almost taxed fully unless you salvage and loot everything (not always possible or profitable). That goes back to how this doesn't affect everyone's playstyle.
What about players in NPC corps who live in 0.0? They're being taxed for... nothing! (because wardecs are irrelevant)
Now, I was all for "more incentive to join a player corp" especially since I don't trust anybody (like I really don't care much for the idea of giving a bunch of guys unwritten consent to shoot and kill me without consequence) but the more I look at this particular feature, the more silly it seems.
Well I'm not necessarily defending their decision to only apply the tax to mission running nor am I saying that the change has zero affect on any playstyle. Only that it doesn't limit any particular playstyle or force anyone into another one.
Many people feel that lvl 4 mission running can too easily net good ISK with little to zero risk. Was this the reason CCP chose to tax it and not other things? I don't know. However if they did choose to tax all income earning activities I don't think it would affect the point I was making in any way.
I usually make my income by sitting in station in Jita and buying and selling things. A 10% margin on items isn't too terrible in many circumstances. After buy and sell order fees I'm being taxed upwards of 3% my total sale or 30% of the profit margin. Despite the tax I don't feel it forces me to another playstyle or is unfair in any way and I don't have any way of dodging the fee.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2009.12.06 22:41:00 -
[167]
Note: tax is only charged on bounties above a certain value (off the top of my head I think it's 100k).
So if you're worried about the 11% tax, just make sure you have enough people in your fleet that the bounties will be divided up equally amongst you, and you'll not pay any tax at all. The biggest fleet you'll need is 20 people for the 2M ISK bounties in some level 4 missions.
That many people flying RR HACs should rip through missions pretty darned quickly.
[Aussie players: join channel ANZAC] |
b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.07 09:00:00 -
[168]
Originally by: Gorefacer
There's not much to grasp. Thus far your play-style has been left alone. You can continue to play the way you have been. A 3% mission tax is a very minor inconvenience/cost in exchange for the minor advantage of wardec immunity. It sounds like your complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
If you want to argue the point that CCP will do something unfairly tax related in the future then that's fine but I see no point in participating as I have no idea what they will end up doing. I think what HAS been done is not unfair or out of line though for the reasons I've already outlined.
You sound like the type to allow a despot to take control of your country granting himself absolute power before it occured to you that maybe you should have raised a voice against it some time previously.
The blog is pretty blatant on the point that CCP want players in player corporations, and they are willing to push the tax further "if the changes do not have the impact we hope"; this should give you an idea of what they will end up doing.
The tone of that blog should be hugely worrying to the player base. For anyone not interested in player corporations it's down right scary. Simply tell us the tax is to bring NPC onto a level playing field with PCs, there's no need for the "suggestions".
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Yonna Paris
Gallente Hinata House
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Posted - 2009.12.07 11:29:00 -
[169]
Originally by: b1zz The tone of that blog should be hugely worrying to the player base. For anyone not interested in player corporations it's down right scary.
I think CCP should cancel NPC corps altogether. Just hotdrop any new player into a random existing player corp. Should make things interesting and eliminate this kind of incredible whining.
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Den Ortur
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:06:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Redart ...instead of playing, you're here.... combing the forums, calling people with negative security status carebears and stupid for playing a game the way he or she wants to play it...
And you're here too. Combing the forums. Calling people stupid.
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Ralle030583
Mystic Lion Hearts Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.12.07 13:45:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Yonna Paris
Originally by: b1zz The tone of that blog should be hugely worrying to the player base. For anyone not interested in player corporations it's down right scary.
I think CCP should cancel NPC corps altogether. Just hotdrop any new player into a random existing player corp. Should make things interesting and eliminate this kind of incredible whining.
thats funny idea .. somwhow...
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Master Shipper
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Posted - 2009.12.07 23:21:00 -
[172]
Originally by: Ralle030583
Originally by: Yonna Paris
Originally by: b1zz The tone of that blog should be hugely worrying to the player base. For anyone not interested in player corporations it's down right scary.
I think CCP should cancel NPC corps altogether. Just hotdrop any new player into a random existing player corp. Should make things interesting and eliminate this kind of incredible whining.
thats funny idea .. somwhow...
I don't. It seems that's where it's heading.
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Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.08 00:07:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Wet Ferret Wardec immunity isn't a very good RP reason for the tax, considering the downsides to being in the NPC corp already (compared to a player corp). Lack of a corp wallet, hangar and POS access to name a few. It also only seems to target a specific playstyle, since it doesn't affect traders / builders / miners etc. Are they not important to get out of the NPC corps or something?
I always considered the lack of a corporate wallet and corp hanger to be a bonus...
As no one will run off with the corp wallet or you ships from hanger.
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Fatneck Runt
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Posted - 2009.12.08 00:37:00 -
[174]
If you don't like the change, and you don't like your other options, simply vote with your wallet and cancel your account(s). Be sure and list your reasons for the cancellation when you're going through with it, as there's a space provided to do so. I just did, and I feel better about it already.
There are those out there who would say that this isn't the game for me. After this latest change by CCP which basically targets the extremely casual carebears like me, I'd have to agree with them. This really is no longer the game for me (if indeed it ever was), so I have canceled my accounts. My 4 year-old main account is paid-up for a couple of more months, but this alt account will be done in a few days.
I doubt I will be missed by many people, but that's OK - I've always existed on the fringe anyway.
I'm done. Cue the abusive/derisive comments.
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Captain Pompous
Is Right Even When He's Wrong So Deal With It
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Posted - 2009.12.08 00:40:00 -
[175]
Why is everyone talking about RP? What does my accent have to do with anything? ---
I was going to run for CSM but life waylaid me :( |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.08 00:53:00 -
[176]
Originally by: Captain Tardbar I always considered the lack of a corporate wallet and corp hanger to be a bonus...
As no one will run off with the corp wallet or you ships from hanger.
I've been running my own corp for over 7 months, and I have yet to run off with my own corp wallet or hangar contents, and not too worried about me doing so. Not sure I would be too upset if I did, though. Did I mention there's nobody in my corp that's not me?
Those two features alone are worth being in a corp for, IMO (one-man or otherwise). And you don't have to give access to anyone who you don't want to have it anyway... so why would you consider the lack of something that's optional, controllable (and highly useful) as a bonus? It is quite the opposite no matter which angle you look at it from.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.08 02:02:00 -
[177]
Edited by: Zartanic on 08/12/2009 02:05:41
Its scary that some people can't handle doing solo player corps whuich are dirt cheap and take a few minutes to set up. I've been in one on and off for months and never had a wardec. And the 11% is peanuts anyway, it nets to about 4% which is less than one level of the negotiation skill. It won't do what CCP want (move players to nul sec) and I don't know why they think it would but its otherwise a small amount to care about.
Some players should be embarrassed they play this game and behave like spoiled brats when they don't get everything their way.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.08 02:13:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Zartanic The protection NPC corps provide is totally against the spirit of the game and Id rather players were kicked out into the real EVE world after a set time anyway and put into a default solo Corps.
Hmm, yeah, about that whole "spirit of the game" thing. Let's talk about how urging people into or out of certain playstyles is "in the spirit of the game". How does that work, good sir?
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. EVE has devs that care about sound? (Ha ha ha! Gotcha. It actually doesn't!) |
outopian
Gallente Decimus Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.08 04:10:00 -
[179]
Not gonna read the whole thread, but all I hear in the first post is, "I don't wanna be wardecced"
Play Peggle. That's a fun game.
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Slightly Green
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Posted - 2009.12.08 04:35:00 -
[180]
I just can't believe that this is considered such a major issue. This game, even as it stands, is probably one of the more solo/casual friendly MMO games out there. Try any other MMO to see what I mean... you're not forced to do much at all in Eve.
You don't have to group to get 'epic' gear. You don't have to group to see all the content. There may be advantages, but you're not forced.
As for 11% - it was a long time coming, and they signalled it was coming quite a long time before it happened. Why the culture shock?
Also... epic thread ftw.
S. Rifter
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Xercodo
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Posted - 2009.12.08 04:39:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Xercodo on 08/12/2009 04:41:45
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: Dirk Magnum
Originally by: Redart Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
You're never more free than when you're in a one-man corp that's part of an alliance that your alt belongs to. You can do anything in this game with that and are subject to no one's rules.
What exactly about "NPC Corp" implies "Freedom" anyway, taxes or no?
And be alone or talk in one of the overcrowded general chans or try and hold a conversation in local bouncing back and forth between systems.
Again, that's not freedom. There is no reason for a tax on NPC corps other than to push people into leaving them.
What if you develop friendships within them? You're going to say "make your own corp" yeah that don't work when you're casual players. What if they all don't want to join the corp? You have to recruit people just to chat. Then you stepped beyond the bounds of casual play.
whole bunch of us in one man corps and even more in real corps and just as many in NPC corps all got together and made our own channel
we usually have 70-120 ppl on and we use voice chat for epic lols
ive been in a one man corp for months and its been great cause i still get the benefit of keeping all my money AND i still have this awesome group of guys i talk with and occasionally help with a mission or do a roam in low sec ^^
throw a mail my way in-game and ill get u in (its a public channel so u dont need an invite, just dont feel like saying it's name here ^^)
u also get the added benefit of not being stuck to w/e race ur NPC corp is a part of, the guys in this channel are of every race and playing style, we have carebear mission runners, WHers, 0.0 alliance guys, newbs, miners, marketeers and their all different races and live in different parts of the universe
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Konarr
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Posted - 2009.12.08 06:14:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Dirk Magnum Edited by: Dirk Magnum on 05/12/2009 03:45:30
Originally by: Redart
Originally by: Xing Fey Corp tax doesn't affect market transactions at all.
Yes it does, maybe not buy and sell orders but trading in a hauler it eliminates any profit.
Zero percent NPC corp tax was an abominable feature and was in dire need of removal with prejudice for years. If you can't make a profit in a hauler it's because you're hauling the wrong stuff, and if it's just the NPC corp tax that's screwing with you then I'd say just go the one-man or small-corp route. I was in a one-man corp for eight months, ****talking on both the forum and local chat the whole time and was never so much as threatened by a war dec.
What is wrong with it? Seriously what is so offensive about people not wanting to PVP? Give me a player corp with a <= 5% rate that can't be wardeced operating in Cladari empire space and I will join. This change isn't about infrastructure, they have said it is about getting people to join player corps. It is about steering casual players into the cross hairs for the precious kill boards.
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Haramir Haleths
Caldari Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2009.12.08 06:38:00 -
[183]
You dont have to join a player corp. Nobody force you to join a player corp. You can even enjoy your casual game experience like before. Nothing has changed. Mssions are the same, Loot is the same. They just did a little game balancing. Yes u got it... Balancing does not belongs to ships and weapons only. Now you are just in line with the rest of the eve community.
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Gorefacer
Caldari Resurrection Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2009.12.08 06:44:00 -
[184]
Originally by: b1zz
Originally by: Gorefacer
There's not much to grasp. Thus far your play-style has been left alone. You can continue to play the way you have been. A 3% mission tax is a very minor inconvenience/cost in exchange for the minor advantage of wardec immunity. It sounds like your complaining about something that hasn't happened yet.
If you want to argue the point that CCP will do something unfairly tax related in the future then that's fine but I see no point in participating as I have no idea what they will end up doing. I think what HAS been done is not unfair or out of line though for the reasons I've already outlined.
You sound like the type to allow a despot to take control of your country granting himself absolute power before it occured to you that maybe you should have raised a voice against it some time previously.
The blog is pretty blatant on the point that CCP want players in player corporations, and they are willing to push the tax further "if the changes do not have the impact we hope"; this should give you an idea of what they will end up doing.
The tone of that blog should be hugely worrying to the player base. For anyone not interested in player corporations it's down right scary. Simply tell us the tax is to bring NPC onto a level playing field with PCs, there's no need for the "suggestions".
Well OK. You don't like the tone of what you've read from CCP. I can't really argue with that. I'm not convinced they will do anything drastic but I could be wrong.
Consequently I've let despots take over my country three times now so you really nailed me there.
"You can't reason someone out of a belief they haven't reasoned themselves into" - Prometheus |
b1zz
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Posted - 2009.12.08 07:04:00 -
[185]
My sympathies. Hope you're not being oppressed too much. Can I suggest a slave uprising; I've heard that works sometimes.
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Jack Airron
Gallente Setenta Corp F A I L
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Posted - 2009.12.08 14:57:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Redart Edited by: Redart on 05/12/2009 03:47:15
Originally by: Nika Dekaia Trading is not affected by the tax.
Mission running will only be affected bounty/mission reward wise. That's approx. 35% of the total mission income. So we're talking about 3.3% less income from mission running.
If you're a casual player and play for, say 1 hr each day and make 20 mil on average, that'll be 600mil / months. So you actually pay only about 23 mil /month for beeing not wardeccabe.
HTFU
Ah well, so be it. I've joined player corps in the past with 2.5% tax and my trading went down exactly 2.5% on top of the normal tax minus the 1% per lvl of accounting.
Even still, there is no reason for the NPC Corp tax other than to push players into doing something they don't want to do. Tax or not, I do not want to be in a player corp. EVE is about freedom. That's not freedom.
When I did play, it was fun to chat in the Minnie NPC Corp chats. There is some good people there. (not on this char of course)
FREEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOM!!!!
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JusCheckin Jita
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Posted - 2009.12.08 15:21:00 -
[187]
Originally by: b1zz My sympathies. Hope you're not being oppressed too much. Can I suggest a slave uprising; I've heard that works sometimes.
This comment is unnecessary and offensive. I hope you get banned for this post, and I hope you're country is taken over by a totalitarian dictator and you become a groveling slave who cleans up the ***** of other slaves [in game].
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