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Rick Wensbane
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.14 18:25:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
To knowingly use this bug for gain would be an exploit.
You're joking, right? Cause I caught two more Caldari alts doing this around Dal (in Incursus, of all things!), and didn't even bother reporting them...
Oh, and yes, I did chase them off.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.14 19:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Rick Wensbane
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
You're joking, right? Cause I caught two more Caldari alts doing this around Dal (in Incursus, of all things!), and didn't even bother reporting them...
You can still file a bug report with names/system/time etc. |
Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.14 22:33:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 14/12/2009 22:34:19
Originally by: Rick Wensbane
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
To knowingly use this bug for gain would be an exploit.
You're joking, right? Cause I caught two more Caldari alts doing this around Dal (in Incursus, of all things!), and didn't even bother reporting them...
Oh, and yes, I did chase them off.
He's not. I got a reply to my bug report #88013 stating that this was an unknown bug, and is now attached to a defect. Please note that the bug is that the plexer in question does not receive a standings boost, which in turn would reduce his Minmatar standing, which in turn would make the ability to plex unmolested by NPCs last only a very short time. There has been a lot of confusion with people reporting that NPCs do not shoot - this is, in itself, not considered a bug, so petitioning this or bug reporting it will not give a response. Make sure you point out that the bug is the lack of standing loss.
The definition of an "exploit" is as follows:
Quote: You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.
(Technically, we all violated the TOS because we explained the bug in various threads ;-))
I'm afraid we will not see a big news post about this being an exploit. Only very few bugs whose abuse is considered an exploit get so much attention. Hence, please do petition the abuse of this bug whenever you see it (feel free to point to the bug number above).
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Gwenol Velsa
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.14 23:08:00 -
[94]
So what's it to be Damar? are you going to accept Arkady's word for it? petition CCP directly for an explanation of what bug #88013 is? stick by your word?
Or are you going to continue using the excuse of no "official" statement to keep capping plexes with no-loss alts?
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BacardiDesire
Caldari The 8th Order
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:30:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Bad Messenger There was reason why gallente did not get systems back when we defended those
Example
Now think how much you need people if there is more people defending
09:47 - 10:46
dont you think all those kills happend in 1 hour instead of a gang warpin into him ;)? i was there i died allone so did all the others tr bringing some straight facts to the forums, looks better ;) all i want is some cake. |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:40:00 -
[96]
Originally by: BacardiDesire
Originally by: Bad Messenger There was reason why gallente did not get systems back when we defended those
Example
Now think how much you need people if there is more people defending
09:47 - 10:46
dont you think all those kills happend in 1 hour instead of a gang warpin into him ;)? i was there i died allone so did all the others tr bringing some straight facts to the forums, looks better ;)
Why didn't you gang warp then ?
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Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.15 19:22:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Gallactica ^^ Me
Wouldnt a simple solution to all this exploit crap be to only allow a plex to be captured once all the NPC's are destroyed? - Standings affected accordingly and would eliminate the noob sp alt being able to run them down, or is that too simple?
Ok but what about t1 frigs 'defending' if all rats to be killed , np. BUt there would have to be a change on the defensive side.
I've alwasy liked the propsal that FP formerly of FOOM put forth last year. That to run timer in plex you need correct hull size. IE frig/dessie for minor, Cruiser for medium, BC for major. Make si tmore interesting all around .
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:04:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Val Erian Edited by: Val Erian on 15/12/2009 19:52:06 Edited by: Val Erian on 15/12/2009 19:51:03
Originally by: Gallactica ^^ Me
Wouldnt a simple solution to all this exploit crap be to only allow a plex to be captured once all the NPC's are destroyed? - Standings affected accordingly and would eliminate the noob sp alt being able to run them down, or is that too simple?
Ok but what about t1 frigs 'defending' , there would have to be a change on the defensive side.
I've alwasy liked the propsal that FP formerly of FOOM put forth last year. That to run timer in plex you need correct hull size. IE frig/dessie for minor, Cruiser for medium, BC for major. Makes it more interesting all around .
An Idea for how to balance out Defensive and Offensive Plexing would be to put NPC's of Both Factions into the plexes and require the destruction of all the Opposing NPC's to Capture or Defend the Plex. After all, what's the point of Defensive plexing if there isn't something to defend against?
As an interesting Twist, have a pair of timers on the plex which will run while any FW Player of one of the Opposed Factions is inside. If the player can't kill all the NPC's before the timer runs out for his side, the Opposing NPC's respawn... At the next highest Level, thus allowing more ships entry into the plex but having tougher NPC's to deal with.
Each side would have their own timer, so if the enemy go in and escalate a plex to the next level, you'd be able to get in with a Bigger ship, however the NPC's you'd have to eliminate would still be of the original level, that way, their failure to take the plex as it originally stood would make life easier for you.
The problem would be that if the NPC's were coded to shoot at each other as well as enemy players then plexes would quickly become Lag Central. ---------------
Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:17:00 -
[99]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 15/12/2009 21:18:52 Actually, not a bad idea. How's this to keep NPCs from killing each other? At the three minute mark the NPC spawns - against whichever side has the advantage on the timer. If the pilots trying to cap the plex get run out, then those NPCs warp away when the timer hits zero (when it resets to the maximum time). Then, when the timer hits three minuts on the other side, then the other set of NPCs warps in.
Gallente Win (10+ mins)--- Caldari NPCs ---Gallente +3 --- No NPCs ---- NPCs warp away +0 --- No NPCs --- Caldari +3 ---- Gallente NPCs --- Caldari Win (10+ mins)
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olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:22:00 -
[100]
CCP can't handle coding a single timer without all sort of bugs, and you want to add another one with complex spawn mechanics ?
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: olzi CCP can't handle coding a single timer without all sort of bugs, and you want to add another one with complex spawn mechanics ?
Yeah my bad. Sorry.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:56:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Bad Messenger on 15/12/2009 21:55:53 yea, make defending so hard now when gallente has to defend, i approve all changes that makes impossible defending more impossible so all systems flip and flop every day !
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.17 15:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Greg6 Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit.
Having witnessed Val Erian this day alone triggering npc aggro to Caldari militia (and at least on one other occasion trying it) and mocking Caldari militia people for it (who are not all, unlike legend says, my alts) I can now happily say that when taking offensive plexes, this will likely become our standard tactic and as such we turn faction war into even more lame alt/bug fest than it already is.
Of course Gallentes only get damped but I assume this annoys them well enough. Let's see if we get another "Caldari exploit" thread out of it. So give big applause to Val, he sure deserves it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.17 16:22:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Droog 1 on 17/12/2009 16:23:30
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Greg6 Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit.
Having witnessed Val Erian this day alone triggering npc aggro to Caldari militia (and at least on one other occasion trying it) and mocking Caldari militia people for it (who are not all, unlike legend says, my alts)]
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
I can now happily say that when taking offensive plexes, this will likely become our standard tactic and as such we turn faction war into even more lame alt/bug fest than it already is.
I don't see why anyone wouldn't use this tactic and it's not like you are adverse to being lame. You did your best to turn it into an alt/bugfest because nobody would vote for you in the CSM election. Enjoy your game!
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
So give big applause to Val, he sure deserves it.
Baaaaaw Val made me do it.
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Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:16:00 -
[105]
Please god no more of this he did / she did / they did crap anymore!
Its like listening to a stuck record over and over again - If CCP havnt noticed that things need changing with all the chest beating / whinging / beatching / finger pointing / petitioning etc now then they never will.
Live with how it is and get on with it with the faint hope that CCP do something or get the F*** out of FW and go do something else instead.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:28:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Droog 1
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
There is difference in those, CCP has said about standing bug that it is working as intended, but i doubt CCP has said same about that agro exploit.
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Mithril Ryder
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Posted - 2009.12.17 22:32:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:21:04 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:19:32 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:17:25
Originally by: Juren Coda Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
I'll answer this one: Nobody (this is very important) cared about our gaming experience and enjoyment when we were loudly protesting Gallentes use of bugs, such as standings exploit or turning NPCs to fire upon Caldari militia members. I actually seem to recall you ridiculing us when we protested when in combat member of your fleet turned NPCs on us.
Nennamaila resident recently confessed that in fight vs me and Bad Messenger that "Yes, Amon Dei indeed confessed he used the exploit but I didnt know about it" (suffice to say I dont believe the last part at all). Did he apologise, show remorse, say it was lame? Of course not.
So tell me. Why should we listen to people who used the bugs/exploits initially and did not find it shameful in the least? How they can or even dare say "two wrongs dont make right?"
And frankly i'm getting bored now in seeing all the same faces in the front, using same exploits (Hello Val, thanks for using npc bug in Eugales two days ago to turn npcs on Caldari Maller) and being a crutch for whole militia. So go ahead and plex, I wont be there to stop you as I return to Matar front (as PERVS member). It will be up to others to get off their backsides.
To use the old phrase, "Cat is away, mice and rats are running around" basicly means that Caldari/Gallente front is ripe for small gang pvp action. I assume majority of the militia will not care (as we know, plexing gives you STD) but actually, I learned it by now and can actually look at it quite stress free.
Once we get bored with Matar front, we can return to our front and do what is necessary.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
You never had any proof that anyone got the NPCs to shoot at you Damar and you know that.
You say that they say that someone else said? Go play telephone with your mommy, not here.
What evidence do you have that the people complaining about exploits knowingly and willfully used exploits themselves?
I'm bored of your hyperbole and baseless claims Damar, I'm fairly sure everyone else has as well. You mean its more profitable for you to exploit game mechanics yourself when your side is winning?
Damar, you need to stop writing reality checks, they keep bouncing.
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Mithril Ryder
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Posted - 2009.12.17 23:12:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Mithril Ryder on 17/12/2009 23:12:54 Dupe post, mods please remove
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Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.17 23:53:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Greg6 Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit.
Having witnessed Val Erian this day alone triggering npc aggro to Caldari militia (and at least on one other occasion trying it) and mocking Caldari militia people for it (who are not all, unlike legend says, my alts) I can now happily say that when taking offensive plexes, this will likely become our standard tactic and as such we turn faction war into even more lame alt/bug fest than it already is.
Of course Gallentes only get damped but I assume this annoys them well enough. Let's see if we get another "Caldari exploit" thread out of it. So give big applause to Val, he sure deserves it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Really? Since it was Yuri Intaki in local plex and not Damar I guess this is really your alt. THough I talked to another Caldari about it and he says its two people. I guess you must Account Share then, which is also against the EULA
Second in plex my comet was being chased by a wt Crusader. HE moved away from me. you will never beleive it was inadvertent and due to bug.. But you seek excuses to do what your going to do anyway meh. Its mainly you and your tactics that makes FW so lame, I think we could have a vote on it. BTW guess your exploits in minnie space arent workng so welcome back.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.18 01:04:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 01:04:12 I'm taking bets on how long it will be before Damar runs off to go grief elsewhere. He has pretty much hit a brick wall in Minmatar space and his little alts can't keep up with what is being undone, despite his use of standing mechanics exploits.
Minmatar Militia have stepped it up and answered the call. We have recaptured 5 systems and stopped the capture of Brin and de-contested many system that were under attack.
I think at this point Damar would need about 50 alt to stop what is happening. Which means I'm pretty sure he will soon decide that he has lost his chance to achieve what ever it was he thought he could get away with.
I'm sure he's already thinking up some other way to be lame, but only time will tell. I'm betting the Amarr won't like him much after the realize what he's started in the Minmatar Militia.
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kahhhhhnn
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Posted - 2009.12.18 08:23:00 -
[111]
Thank god we've got Daniel jackson or we wouldn't have a system left.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 08:26:00 -
[112]
Originally by: kahhhhhnn Thank god we've got Daniel jackson or we wouldn't have a system left.
^^ Guess who's alt this is.
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 08:37:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Neo Gabriel on 18/12/2009 08:38:10 Well I guess now since we can abuse any game mechanic until CCP says it's an exploit we will be "abusing" "working as intended" game mechanics in plexes all the time now.
Also, Thank God for Daniel Jackson and friends for padding our kill boards and making plexing fun.
Cya on the Battlefield! Luminaire General Neo Gabriel
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.18 09:07:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Val Erian
Really? Since it was Yuri Intaki in local plex and not Damar I guess this is really your alt. THough I talked to another Caldari about it and he says its two people, as he has heard you both on voice. Funny , I guess you must Account Share then, which is against the EULA.
Second , in plex my comet was there with wt Crusader. HE moved away from me... You will never believe the circumstances ofc .
So thxs Damar for confirming RE: Yuri ..
But, really doesnt matter you always seek reason to do what your were planning to do anyway.
BTW guess your selfless use of alts in minnie space isn't workng out as planned, so welcome back. I'm sure we'll all have a blast.
I will confirm that Val Erian used the NPC bug in a Caldari plex. The timer was bugged, so he warped in after we had "captured" it and was coming after me. I moved away to get him in range of NPCs, then moved back to attack. At this point, Val was the sole target. He then used the bug to escape death at my hands - I had him in structure, but just couldn't take any more missile fire and had to warp out.
Yuri and Damar both know because I mentioned this in a chat channel we all share.
Now, I wouldn't mind someone using this, really, except that it's apparently only wrong when the Caldari do it. When the Froggies use it, it's justified for some reason. --- |
Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.18 09:09:00 -
[115]
I do not know Damar or PERVS too well. I have no history with them. But excluding the excessive use of alts and this standings bug - I have to say they show how FW could be if it was working well.
I have never seen a group fight tooth and nail for every single plex like they do. The dedication is quite impressive. You go to a plex, and you know you get a response. There is a fight over the plex as if it was the last bastion of hope for either side.
If plexes could inspire similar work from other groups, encouraging more such small skirmish engagements, that would make FW really, really enjoyable.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:49:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 01:04:12 I'm taking bets on how long it will be before Damar runs off to go grief elsewhere. He has pretty much hit a brick wall in Minmatar space and his little alts can't keep up with what is being undone, despite his use of standing mechanics exploits.
Minmatar Militia have stepped it up and answered the call. We have recaptured 5 systems and stopped the capture of Brin and de-contested many system that were under attack.
I think at this point Damar would need about 50 alt to stop what is happening. Which means I'm pretty sure he will soon decide that he has lost his chance to achieve what ever it was he thought he could get away with.
I'm sure he's already thinking up some other way to be lame, but only time will tell. I'm betting the Amarr won't like him much after the realize what he's started in the Minmatar Militia.
There is nothing to bet for, we already 'ran' to grief else where.
I do not see how we hit the brick wall, if there was wall it was quite thin.
You sure captured systems back and rescued Brin, but as our original plan was we just make systems vulnerable and Amarr do what they ever want with those.
But as it is end of the year and some people has some irl things with their families, we left back to caldari space and most of us do something else than play eve.
I hope CCP got some new ideas how to improve fw.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:49:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Droog 1
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
There is difference in those, CCP has said about standing bug that it is working as intended, but i doubt CCP has said same about that agro exploit.
I'm sure Damarr has a few GM replys from his petitions of this so called aggro 'bug' he could show you. You should bug report it/petition and see what answer CCP give you.
Maybe some people are transferring aggro to 'bring it to CCPs attention' in the same way you did when you decided to plex with alts in Minmattar space. After all, you did claim that your intentions behind using alts and abusing their standings was to highlight a problem to CCP. So it's pretty much the same thing. Right?
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:56:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Bad Messenger There is nothing to bet for, we already 'ran' to grief else where.
Comfirming this. Order was given to move assets back to "you know which system" and we did this in couple of hours. Overall, in Minmatar space I lost a single griffin and navy hookbill and you can check killboard for some of the supposed "brick wall" which we faced without much trouble.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier Genera
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:20:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Droog 1
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Droog 1
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
There is difference in those, CCP has said about standing bug that it is working as intended, but i doubt CCP has said same about that agro exploit.
I'm sure Damarr has a few GM replys from his petitions of this so called aggro 'bug' he could show you. You should bug report it/petition and see what answer CCP give you.
Maybe some people are transferring aggro to 'bring it to CCPs attention' in the same way you did when you decided to plex with alts in Minmattar space. After all, you did claim that your intentions behind using alts and abusing their standings was to highlight a problem to CCP. So it's pretty much the same thing. Right?
No it is not a same thing.
CCP responded to my petition about transferring agro bug that they could not reproduce it so they could not say much about it. They were asking pictures or videos about it so they could look it further but i did not have one on my hands at that moment.
But about standing bug they clearly responded that our plan did not contain any exploit and we are free to use it.
So difference is that another is not a bug it is working as intended but another clearly is.
But as you are gallente supported you will support Val to the bitter end. Val Erian has always been one of the top bug users in fw history, he can play better than many other gallente in normal ways but he just want to use buggs when things gets out of his hands and he cannot beat enemy by normal methods.
Turning agro is exploit if he get free loot after npc has killed caldari player.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:48:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Bad Messenger Turning agro is exploit if he get free loot after npc has killed caldari player.
He didn't manage to kill me, I'm afraid. But I would have had him if he hadn't pulled the exploit. Oh well.
Welcome back, BTW --- |
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