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Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1557
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:17:00 -
[61] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:I believe a rock is also ignorant of its influence on its environment.....oh god, you know what a rock is? An environment! Guys, guys! I found the environment everyone is competing against! *LOL* Wow, that made so much sense ...
edit: and again, new page ... this is getting out of control. -.-
But seriously ... thanks for being a prime example of a person ignoring it's influence on ... OTHER PEOPLE ... ... if that's better to understand than ENVIRONMENT ... ... although OTHER PEOPLE also belong to YOUR ENVIRONMENT ...
*lol* hilarious ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1342
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Posted - 2012.06.19 11:22:00 -
[62] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Sisohiv wrote:Tippia wrote:Sisohiv wrote:PvP provides barriers for the sake of barriers. It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics of Industry. That is pure 100% PvE (in a strictly PvP game) SoGǪ what environment are you fighting against when you're doing industry, again? What player am I fighting against when I do Industry? Do you sell anything you produce? Do you buy any player produced materials? Do you use limited production slots in a station? Do you use limited research slots in a station? Have you claimed one of the limited number of hi-sec moons for a POS? Have you moved valuable materials and items through space? Have you sold BPCs?
Well, if somebody wanted to nitpick like Tippia he could bring in my example:
- I gun-mined enough minerals that I made all my ships and mods (with NPC bought BPOs). - I do missions etc. with such ships and the wallet blinks due to PvE fixed bounties. Even totally removing LP etc. the pure PvE bounties are plenty enough. - I also self gathered PI and self made all my POSes and every structure around the POSes that I use to research the BPOs. - I can also mine ice for the POS. Even the charters may be bought with LP given by factions my mission alts are at 9+ standings with.
Of course in the actual game I do plenty of market and industry PvP but if I wanted to only play PvE, the game puts in a lot of resources to be completely self-sufficient and thus not need to punch anyone else on the nose. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Sai Hai
Shin-Ra Ltd
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:27:00 -
[63] - Quote
AFK Hauler wrote:I did not know there was a PvE community in a PvP game...
Interesting.
I did not know there was a PvP community in a PvE game...
Very Interesting. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1557
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:31:00 -
[64] - Quote
Sai Hai wrote:AFK Hauler wrote:I did not know there was a PvE community in a PvP game...
Interesting. I did not know there was a PvP community in a PvE game... Very Interesting.
Which game are you talking about ? I, too, believe there's no PvP community in a PvE game ... That *really* makes no sense.
But let's stick to EvE instead of talking about all the crap out there, thx. Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
1557
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:- I gun-mined enough minerals that I made all my ships and mods (with NPC bought BPOs). - I do missions etc. with such ships and the wallet blinks due to PvE fixed bounties. Even totally removing LP etc. the pure PvE bounties are plenty enough. - I also self gathered PI and self made all my POSes and every structure around the POSes that I use to research the BPOs. - I can also mine ice for the POS. Even the charters may be bought with LP given by factions my mission alts are at 9+ standings with.
- Rats somebody else can't shoot anymore and it doesn't matter if nobody else was around at that moment. - Space on planets somebody else can't use anymore, because you're using it. - A moon nobody else can use anymore, because you're using it.
Also, hilariously, you can't have no-influence on anything, because even if you "choose" not to have influence, you're still influencing your environment by avoiding it.
But i guess that's way too meta now ... Inappropriate signature removed. Spitfire |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
566
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:50:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vincent Athena wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Squrriel Insurgent wrote:..........
So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions? Please state your source for Eve being a strictly pvp game. My source. Please state a source that was authored from someone currently working for CCP.
(I'm probably a bit too late and haven't read past first 2 pages so apologies if it's been mentioned.)
Well he's no longer working for CCP and the statement doesn't say 'strictly' but as things do so often they get a bit bend. Anywho, here is a link to a dev blog with amongst others the phrase "The environment plays a big part but EVE is a "PvP" game.". Link. Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:55:00 -
[67] - Quote
ITT people not understanding that pvp is not exclusive to people shooting each other in the face. |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:57:00 -
[68] - Quote
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:but if I wanted to only play PvE, the game puts in a lot of resources to be completely self-sufficient and thus not need to punch anyone else on the nose.
This is quite true. But unless you're in station 24/7 and never use the market or contracts or otherwise interact with players while in station, there is always the potential for the pvp element to come into play.
Actually, now that I think of it, even in station you're not safe from pvp. Competition for research/manufacture slots? |
Squrriel Insurgent
Kai Family Aperture Science Division T A B O O
8
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Posted - 2012.06.19 12:39:00 -
[69] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:I should like to take this opportunity to thank the op for starting this startlingly original thread.
Why has no one else ever brought this mind-numbingly boring topic up before?
And I thank you for choosing to take your time and read it. I do understand that your time is valuable, and I understand you have the right to use it in any way you choose. And you chose to read my post I thank you.
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Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 13:52:00 -
[70] - Quote
Squrriel Insurgent wrote:I have been reading many arguments about the pvp community telling players how to play EvE. So I have a question to the pve community itself, note not all of the pve community is included in this question.
I have heard a lot of pve miners who say to leave them alone in mining in high sec. Stating that mining in high sec is a easy to to play without playing. Having heard someone once state " mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework".I have read many statements just like that. Where people want to have an area where they can afk or not have to pay little attention to there game while they progress at the task at hand.
Question: what other mmo actually allows you to do that?
From my years of playing a wide varity of mmo's I have yet to find one that allows what you suggest to actually take place. In fact the only way I have seen that happen is through botting. Which if I remember correctly there is not a mmo in the world that allows a player to do that.
So basically you came to one of the most violent and grief filled pvp games in the world and ask to be left alone. Seeing how this is not WoW or any other mmo that dosen't have random mobs popping up on u at every second, or a separate pve sever for you to play on, which even in games like that u still have to pay attention to your screen and actively play the game. I mean this is no different execept that instead of an npc mob attacking u while u gather its a player.
So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions?
I don't have a comprehensive list by any means but Ogame is a pvp oriented mmo that is great for playing afk. |
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THE L0CK
Denying You Access
556
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Posted - 2012.06.19 14:10:00 -
[71] - Quote
Peter Raptor wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
I have heard a lot of pve miners who say to leave them alone in mining in high sec. Stating that mining in high sec is a easy to to play without playing. Having heard someone once state " mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework".I have read many statements just like that. Where people want to have an area where they can afk or not have to pay little attention to there game while they progress at the task at hand.
Here's another mind bender. If you are afk mining, are you really playing the game? When you set a mouse trap, are you trying to catch mice?
No, the mousetrap is! By setting the trap you have moved the function of catch from yourself to the mousetrap hence why people say "I set some mousetraps to catch a mouse". If you were trying to catch the mouse, you would be patiently waiting next to the hole, like a cat. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
322
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 14:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Mining sure as heck isn't PvE.
There are other activities such as missioning, or incursions that are PvE.
A totally safe highsec environment would ruin EvE completely, IMO, but right now there's a shift of attention of where the PvP action is, and its affecting things negatively in the community, not necessarily in the market or game itself.
The good stuff in terms of PvP is supposed to be in nullsec (large scale warfare), followed by lowsec (skirmish warfare), and then highsec (for things like wardecs and the like). What happened lately is the PvP focus has been placed on highsec in that this is the type of PvP that's receiving the most forum attention, likely due to the widespread ganking. I doubt CCP expected the nullsec alliances to get bored with their empires and come out to gank in highsec in any kind of organized numbers.
However, you can't say CCP is not reacting. The new mining ships kinda clearly state that CCP doesn't expect this sort of gameplay (ganking miners) to be the "ultimate PvP attraction" in the game going forward.
Let's see what CCP's new ideas do before we do anything drastic. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 14:30:00 -
[73] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
I have heard a lot of pve miners who say to leave them alone in mining in high sec. Stating that mining in high sec is a easy to to play without playing. Having heard someone once state " mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework".I have read many statements just like that. Where people want to have an area where they can afk or not have to pay little attention to there game while they progress at the task at hand.
Here's another mind bender. If you are afk mining, are you really playing the game? When you set a mouse trap, are you trying to catch mice? No, the mousetrap is! By setting the trap you have moved the function of catch from yourself to the mousetrap hence why people say "I set some mousetraps to catch a mouse". If you were trying to catch the mouse, you would be patiently waiting next to the hole, like a cat.
Thats like saying a fur trapper doesn't trap animals. One of the things that separate us from most, not all animals is that we use tools. We set the trap, we catch the mouse. Its like the difference between assembly code and C++, we're just operating at a higher level than the cat. Its not as direct as the cats method but its smarter. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1343
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 14:39:00 -
[74] - Quote
Solstice Project wrote: - Rats somebody else can't shoot anymore and it doesn't matter if nobody else was around at that moment. - Space on planets somebody else can't use anymore, because you're using it. - A moon nobody else can use anymore, because you're using it.
Also, hilariously, one can't have no-influence on anything, because even if one "chooses" not to have influence, he's still influencing his environment by avoiding it.
But i guess that's way too meta now ...
- L4 rats are spawned on demand, everyone can have their little infinite ISK and minerals source. - Not everybody live in The Forge. 80% of the planets I surveyed were and are completely empty of anybody's PI. After CCP introduced the NPC tax, people abandoned them in big style. - Same as above. I quit the game and routinely remove POSes left and right and every time I come back, the moons are completely free to take back in the same spot.
Liliana Rahl wrote:Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:but if I wanted to only play PvE, the game puts in a lot of resources to be completely self-sufficient and thus not need to punch anyone else on the nose. This is quite true. But unless you're in station 24/7 and never use the market or contracts or otherwise interact with players while in station, there is always the potential for the pvp element to come into play. Actually, now that I think of it, even in station you're not safe from pvp. Competition for research/manufacture slots?
- What you say was true in 2010, when sometimes I found 5-6 manufacturing slots full (out of about 60 in "my" system). Then the local trade hub dried up, now since Dec 2011 I have never seen 1 slots being used.
Anyway I see people reading and writing what they want without checking the reality in face.
EvE is indeed PvP centered but the indicated activities are not PvP centered (but PvP side affected at best).
Let me tell in another way: of many MMOs I played, one of them is called Istaria. It's a sandbox game with deep crafting like EvE, in the sense you build everything up, even more than EvE.
The game comes with auction houses, mining (14 craft schools) and the usual stuff.
It's pure PvE, you don't even get a battleground, an arena nothing. It's a PvE MMO as written on the tin.
Yet one of you would define it PvP, because miners in there DO clash much more than in EvE, people empty the NPC spawns (no instancing, no spawned "pockets") that everybody else need. People outbid each other in auction house and even in "meta professions" (i.e. building houses, the specialized crafters offer services for a fee and guess what, they compete).
Yet that's a classic, older than EvE pure PvE MMO.
So, the PvP definition you apply for everything in EvE, happens even harder in that and any other PvE game, because the very fact they are MMOS puts people "against" each other.
To, there are 2 PvP levels:
- 1 is inherent to playing a multi-player game, even PvE games have competition. - 1 is inherent to the ability to actively exterminate each other on their avatars / ships and not just by "competing".
EvE has both factors and the EvE gameplay only involving non shooting in face is totally the same of pure PvE games. Therefore EvE is also PvE, in the most classic sense. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
556
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 14:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zyress wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Peter Raptor wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Squrriel Insurgent wrote:
I have heard a lot of pve miners who say to leave them alone in mining in high sec. Stating that mining in high sec is a easy to to play without playing. Having heard someone once state " mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework".I have read many statements just like that. Where people want to have an area where they can afk or not have to pay little attention to there game while they progress at the task at hand.
Here's another mind bender. If you are afk mining, are you really playing the game? When you set a mouse trap, are you trying to catch mice? No, the mousetrap is! By setting the trap you have moved the function of catch from yourself to the mousetrap hence why people say "I set some mousetraps to catch a mouse". If you were trying to catch the mouse, you would be patiently waiting next to the hole, like a cat. Thats like saying a fur trapper doesn't trap animals. One of the things that separate us from most, not all animals is that we use tools. We set the trap, we catch the mouse. Its like the difference between assembly code and C++, we're just operating at a higher level than the cat. Its not as direct as the cats method but its smarter.
The fur trapper sets traps. The traps trap animals. The trapper just comes along and kills them at his convenience. Now if the trapper removed the trap and grabbed a rifle then he would become a hunter thus taking out the middle man, or machine in this case.
Tools have increased our production and made things easier and more automated. With the use of machines we have made many assembly lines automated. Does the laid off assembly worker still say that they work at the plant after a machine took over their process? Obviously the tool and the person are separate entities here but both do or have done the same function.
Also, my cat knows java. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Kieron VonDeux
34
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 14:49:00 -
[76] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:ITT people not understanding that pvp is not exclusive to people shooting each other in the face.
This.
Some will only see black and white when there are so many shades of gray.
|
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 14:51:00 -
[77] - Quote
Quote:=THE L0CK
The fur trapper sets traps. The traps trap animals. The trapper just comes along and kills them at his convenience. Now if the trapper removed the trap and grabbed a rifle then he would become a hunter thus taking out the middle man, or machine in this case.
Tools have increased our production and made things easier and more automated. With the use of machines we have made many assembly lines automated. Does the laid off assembly worker still say that they work at the plant after a machine took over their process? Obviously the tool and the person are separate entities here but both do or have done the same function.
Also, my cat knows java.
By your logic the hunter doesn't kill the animal the rifle does. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
556
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:00:00 -
[78] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Quote:=THE L0CK
The fur trapper sets traps. The traps trap animals. The trapper just comes along and kills them at his convenience. Now if the trapper removed the trap and grabbed a rifle then he would become a hunter thus taking out the middle man, or machine in this case.
Tools have increased our production and made things easier and more automated. With the use of machines we have made many assembly lines automated. Does the laid off assembly worker still say that they work at the plant after a machine took over their process? Obviously the tool and the person are separate entities here but both do or have done the same function.
Also, my cat knows java. By your logic the hunter doesn't kill the animal the rifle does.
Trap! The gun does not fire on its own. For the gun to work, the hunter must see his target, load and aim the rifle, and squeeze the trigger.
Whereas with the trap he goes out in the wild and sets the trap. He is performing the function of trapping here. But once he leaves and heads home to watch another episode of The price is Right, the function of trapping is moved on to the trap itself. His function is now watching tv. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:11:00 -
[79] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:Quote:=THE L0CK
The fur trapper sets traps. The traps trap animals. The trapper just comes along and kills them at his convenience. Now if the trapper removed the trap and grabbed a rifle then he would become a hunter thus taking out the middle man, or machine in this case.
Tools have increased our production and made things easier and more automated. With the use of machines we have made many assembly lines automated. Does the laid off assembly worker still say that they work at the plant after a machine took over their process? Obviously the tool and the person are separate entities here but both do or have done the same function.
Also, my cat knows java. By your logic the hunter doesn't kill the animal the rifle does. Trap! The gun does not fire on its own. For the gun to work, the hunter must see his target, load and aim the rifle, and squeeze the trigger. Whereas with the trap he goes out in the wild and sets the trap. He is performing the function of trapping here. But once he leaves and heads home to watch another episode of The price is Right, the function of trapping is moved on to the trap itself. His function is now watching tv.
And once the hunter aims and pulls the trigger the riffle's firing pin strikes the bullet which ignites the gunpowder which propels the bullet down the barrel and through the air till it hits the animal Once the bullet leaves the barrel if the hunter were very quick he could go home and watch the price is right, the function of killing is moved to the bullet, the hunter's fuction is now watching TV. The amount of time that passes between the action that instigates the kill or trap is inmaterial. If a gangster throws someone in a car cruncher and hits a button then drives home, did he murder the person or was that the funtion of the car cruncher while his function was driving his car? You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
557
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:36:00 -
[80] - Quote
Zyress wrote:
And once the hunter aims and pulls the trigger the riffle's firing pin strikes the bullet which ignites the gunpowder which propels the bullet down the barrel and through the air till it hits the animal Once the bullet leaves the barrel if the hunter were very quick he could go home and watch the price is right, the function of killing is moved to the bullet, the hunter's fuction is now watching TV. The amount of time that passes between the action that instigates the kill or trap is inmaterial. If a gangster throws someone in a car cruncher and hits a button then drives home, did he murder the person or was that the funtion of the car cruncher while his function was driving his car? You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Grasping at air are we?
A bullet leaves the chamber of a rifle at an average of about 1200 m/s. If the target is a kilometer downrange the hunter would have less than one second to switch actions.
Also, contrary to what movies show you, car crushers come equip with safety features that require an operator to stand present while the car is being crushed to prevent any action like the operator leaving the booth and accidentally falling in.
Surely you can do better than this can't you? The concept of the action keeps eluding you so I'll give 2 prime example that are in this thread.
Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:When mining, I'm using "2 Hulks and an Orca". Every possible skill is on 5, so things happen rather rapidly. Between dealing with the ore (I don't use Cargohold Exp's so one cycle is all it takes to fill up), keeping an eye on Local and looking for anything nearby to suddenly warp in or decloak, and dealing with warping the Orca to and fro, and changing rocks as they are eaten so quickly, I honestly don't stop moving while mining. Hours at a time.
Squrriel Insurgent referencing another player wrote: mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework
One of these people are mining and one is doing homework. Can you guess which is which? Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
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Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
1536
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:43:00 -
[81] - Quote
FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Squrriel Insurgent wrote:..........
So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions? Please state your source for Eve being a strictly pvp game. My source.
Just like to point out......
PI has no PvP..
Manufacturing..
Researching..
Skilling..
Spinning Barbie with Nex outfits... |
Ituhata Saken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
309
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:43:00 -
[82] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:
rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble
And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors.
You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:
And once the hunter aims and pulls the trigger the riffle's firing pin strikes the bullet which ignites the gunpowder which propels the bullet down the barrel and through the air till it hits the animal Once the bullet leaves the barrel if the hunter were very quick he could go home and watch the price is right, the function of killing is moved to the bullet, the hunter's fuction is now watching TV. The amount of time that passes between the action that instigates the kill or trap is inmaterial. If a gangster throws someone in a car cruncher and hits a button then drives home, did he murder the person or was that the funtion of the car cruncher while his function was driving his car? You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Grasping at air are we? A bullet leaves the chamber of a rifle at an average of about 1200 m/s. If the target is a kilometer downrange the hunter would have less than one second to switch actions. Also, contrary to what movies show you, car crushers come equip with safety features that require an operator to stand present while the car is being crushed to prevent any action like the operator leaving the booth and accidentally falling in. Surely you can do better than this can't you? The concept of the action keeps eluding you so I'll give 2 prime example that are in this thread. Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:When mining, I'm using "2 Hulks and an Orca". Every possible skill is on 5, so things happen rather rapidly. Between dealing with the ore (I don't use Cargohold Exp's so one cycle is all it takes to fill up), keeping an eye on Local and looking for anything nearby to suddenly warp in or decloak, and dealing with warping the Orca to and fro, and changing rocks as they are eaten so quickly, I honestly don't stop moving while mining. Hours at a time.
Squrriel Insurgent referencing another player wrote: mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework
One of these people are mining and one is doing homework. Can you guess which is which?
They both are, one is just doing it more actively, If I put my supper in the oven and set the timer for 45 mins then go watch TV then I am cooking my dinner and watching tv, heck I may even be doing laundry at the very same time, I can multitask that way. |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 15:57:00 -
[84] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:
rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors.
Inmaterial to the debate, yes bad things can happen but the trapper is still trapping. The trap is a tool he does it with. Or as the old NRA comercial says, Guns don't kill people, people kill people. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
558
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 16:01:00 -
[85] - Quote
Zyress wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:
And once the hunter aims and pulls the trigger the riffle's firing pin strikes the bullet which ignites the gunpowder which propels the bullet down the barrel and through the air till it hits the animal Once the bullet leaves the barrel if the hunter were very quick he could go home and watch the price is right, the function of killing is moved to the bullet, the hunter's fuction is now watching TV. The amount of time that passes between the action that instigates the kill or trap is inmaterial. If a gangster throws someone in a car cruncher and hits a button then drives home, did he murder the person or was that the funtion of the car cruncher while his function was driving his car? You have to take responsibility for the consequences of your actions.
Grasping at air are we? A bullet leaves the chamber of a rifle at an average of about 1200 m/s. If the target is a kilometer downrange the hunter would have less than one second to switch actions. Also, contrary to what movies show you, car crushers come equip with safety features that require an operator to stand present while the car is being crushed to prevent any action like the operator leaving the booth and accidentally falling in. Surely you can do better than this can't you? The concept of the action keeps eluding you so I'll give 2 prime example that are in this thread. Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor wrote:When mining, I'm using "2 Hulks and an Orca". Every possible skill is on 5, so things happen rather rapidly. Between dealing with the ore (I don't use Cargohold Exp's so one cycle is all it takes to fill up), keeping an eye on Local and looking for anything nearby to suddenly warp in or decloak, and dealing with warping the Orca to and fro, and changing rocks as they are eaten so quickly, I honestly don't stop moving while mining. Hours at a time.
Squrriel Insurgent referencing another player wrote: mining in high sec is the easiest way for me to play while doing homework
One of these people are mining and one is doing homework. Can you guess which is which? They both are, one is just doing it more actively, If I put my supper in the oven and set the timer for 45 mins then go watch TV then I am cooking my dinner and watching tv, heck I may even be doing laundry at the very same time, I can multitask that way.
Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.
Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 16:08:00 -
[86] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote: Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.
Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.
By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you. |
Ituhata Saken
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
309
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 16:11:00 -
[87] - Quote
Zyress wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:
rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors. Inmaterial to the debate, yes bad things can happen but the trapper is still trapping. The trap is a tool he does it with. Or as the old NRA comercial says, Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
I've always had an issue with that statement, because the gun is clearly an enabler. It's kinda like saying cars, planes & trains don't make people travel, people do. I guarantee if these modes of transportation weren't around alot less people would decide to travel. You know what an answer is? It's a terminus -- an end. Answers are fine, but questions are where it's at. Questions bring us closer to understanding, -áthey can start a conversation or spark a revolution. So you might as well start asking... now.-á ~See you on the other side 6/6/12~ |
RubyPorto
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
2000
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 16:12:00 -
[88] - Quote
Asuka Solo wrote:FloppieTheBanjoClown wrote:Vincent Athena wrote:Squrriel Insurgent wrote:..........
So please help me understand, in short you came to a strictly pvp driven game and ask to make it safe for you to pve mine with no worries of any negative repercussions? Please state your source for Eve being a strictly pvp game. My source. Just like to point out...... PI has no PvP.. Manufacturing.. Researching.. Skilling.. Spinning Barbie with Nex outfits...
Competition over Resource depletion
Slot/Moon competition (also, sales, or stopping someone from selling to you)
Slot/Moon competition
True (except why are you skilling if you're not going to do anything with the skills?)
True This is EVE. -á Everybody Versus Everybody. |
THE L0CK
Denying You Access
558
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 16:15:00 -
[89] - Quote
Zyress wrote:THE L0CK wrote: Unless you have gained some supernatural ability to heat things with your hands the oven is and always will be cooking your dinner. You may prep and arrange the ingredients before hand or add them during the process of cooking.
Now laundry and the tv is the first decent analogy that you have had. TV doesn't not require your hands unless you are a channel surfer so yes you can perform another action such as folding laundry. However, it still does not compare with afk mining. AFK is a general term meaning away from keyboard, also known as not present. If you are away from keyboard or not present, you would find it rather hard to perform the action don't you think? You are present in front of the tv and the laundry, and so you can do both. If you leave the room to go check on your dinner, then your actions change from watching tv and doing laundry (unless you brought your underwear with you) to checking on dinner.
By that argument cooks never cook anything. You're not much for tools are you? And I suppose knives do the slicing and spoons do the laddling. By your definition if you don't do it with your hands then the tool you used did it not you.
Did you forget the actions of the gun already? The knife and the ladle must be held by a person. I use a knife to slice the beef. I use the ladle to stir and check the sauce. When I place the food in the oven, the action of cooking is moved on to the oven and I move on to preparing the next meal. When the oven has completed the cooking, I remove the food, put the finishing touches on it, and send it out to the floor.
I create meals for a living. And yes that is exactly what I have been trying to tell you from the start but so far all that we have accomplished is that you are the king of bad analogies. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
105
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 16:16:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ituhata Saken wrote:Zyress wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:THE L0CK wrote:Zyress wrote:
rabble rabble rabble
rabble rabble rabble And the whole time you're busy setting traps and not guarding them lies the opportunity for someone else to come along and take your stuff. There are many things you can do in life without actually being there, the problem is if you'r not there, bad things can and often do happen. Kinda why large autonomous plants always have plant supervisors. Inmaterial to the debate, yes bad things can happen but the trapper is still trapping. The trap is a tool he does it with. Or as the old NRA comercial says, Guns don't kill people, people kill people. I've always had an issue with that statement, because the gun is clearly an enabler. It's kinda like saying cars, planes & trains don't make people travel, people do. I guarantee if these modes of transportation weren't around alot less people would decide to travel.
They are tools, aside from accidents, the gun does not fire unless someone pulls the trigger, the car goes no where unless someone drives it, the airplane does not fly unless someone flies it. |
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