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Yamanipanuchi
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Posted - 2009.12.16 03:52:00 -
[1]
I find the catch 22 on implants that have attributes that control learning on them. Its detrimental to loose those attributes. So your less opt to PVP because of this. Jump clones take 24 hours to back to your implants... UHG.
I know this is a long shot, But convert everyone's implants into a new learning skill that has that many points according to the implant they have and do away with attribute related implants. Keep the other implants, There great and you still have the thrill of loosing something you really want. Just not something that permanently changes your learning times, unless you happen to have endless ISK which I know some of you do.
I wont return to this post anytime soon because I know everyone is just going to flame me to death about it. Its just an idea.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.12.16 03:54:00 -
[2]
Risk vs. reward...
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.16 04:02:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Kahega Amielden on 16/12/2009 04:01:56
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Risk vs. reward...
Right. Going into lowsec and 0.0 you get all the risk. But, to compensate, you get vastly increased rewa-
Oh. ****.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2009.12.16 05:17:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Pesets on 16/12/2009 05:18:49
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Risk vs. reward...
Except done wrong. The only way to get the reward is by avoiding the risk in the first place; and if you choose to risk you're practically guaranteed to lose both the reward (training acceleration) and implants themselves.
You only pvp with decent implants if you can easily afford to replace them - at which point it isn't really a risk for you. If you can't afford to replace them, then all it does is discourage pvp even further. ____________________________________________________________________ Pesets - Russian for 'polar wolf'. Pronounced like 'presets' without the 'r'. |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.16 05:59:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Pesets Edited by: Pesets on 16/12/2009 05:18:49
Originally by: Regat Kozovv Risk vs. reward...
Except done wrong. The only way to get the reward is by avoiding the risk in the first place; and if you choose to risk you're practically guaranteed to lose both the reward (training acceleration) and implants themselves.
You only pvp with decent implants if you can easily afford to replace them - at which point it isn't really a risk for you. If you can't afford to replace them, then all it does is discourage pvp even further.
just use the 2 implants you are currently training for. so if you actually get podded you only loose 2 and not a full set. sounds smart?
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Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.12.16 06:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Pesets
You only pvp with decent implants if you can easily afford to replace them.
Or if you, y'know, don't lose.
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2009.12.16 06:34:00 -
[7]
Originally by: darius mclever just use the 2 implants you are currently training for. so if you actually get podded you only loose 2 and not a full set. sounds smart?
Believe it or not, i've already figured out that much. Thing is, it's still -20mil if you use +3s, -40mil if you use +4s; and you need access to jumpclones. Not a very useful strategy for newer players.
Originally by: Xing Fey Or if you, y'know, don't lose.
Like, you know, flying in a blob, only killing industrials and mining barges? And of course Eve has no lag and 0.0 has no bubbles? ____________________________________________________________________ Pesets - Russian for 'polar wolf'. Pronounced like 'presets' without the 'r'. |
Teetxe
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Posted - 2009.12.16 06:57:00 -
[8]
I was thinking about this when I first considered going out to null and I agree. Implants that affect skilling time should be removed. I Honestly believe this would incourage ALOT of people to engage in various forms of pvp.
As has already been said .. The reward comes from avoiding the risk.
Why should someone sitting in hi-sec, only logging in to set skills and maybe run a mission skill-up faster and more safely then someone activily engaging in combat operations ??(and directly keeping the economy healthy). It amounts to punishing those who are doing the "right thing" (yeah,yeah sandbox whatever). |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.16 07:10:00 -
[9]
it is risk vs reward.
you risk your implants and your reward is better training time. if you dont want to risk them you pvp without implants.
the chicken solution of "dont pvp and keep training with implants" works aswell. but isnt as funny as the other option.
see you on the battlefield.
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Valandril
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.16 10:09:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Valandril on 16/12/2009 10:11:33 You don't loose implants in high/lowsec (i've lost them 2 times and both were due to bug so ccp gave my hg slaves back), only chance to lose em would be if you undock in small ship from spit station and get smartbombed by 2+ battleships (which can be avoided by not logging off in stations at all, and definitly not in spit ones). As for 0.0, you can earn more than enough from hour of ratting/mining to make flying in +3 worth it.
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Aiko Intaki
Lodizal Shield Tek Lodizal Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.12.16 13:50:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Aiko Intaki on 16/12/2009 13:52:13 Would you argue the same thing for +5% hardwirings? If not, why?
It basically sounds like you don't like implants as a whole because: 1. The top tier implants are expensive. 2. Jump clones are inconvenient. 3. High sec players can use them safely and you can't.
A better idea:
Introduce attribute boosters, which are drugs you can take in 0.0 and/or low sec that add a small amount to specific attribute scores for some period of time. Perhaps +1 to +3 for a 24 hour period with possible side effects. Make these player-made consumables, make them manufacturable only in 0.0 (based on gas types) and make them contraband in high sec like other 0.0 boosters.
With something like this you could use your cheap, ****ty attribute implants AND consume boosters to easily get comparable training times to those folks sitting in high sec with a half billion ISK worth of attribute implants in their head. If you then wanted to risk running in low sec or 0.0 with more expensive, less ****ty implant you could even exceed that.
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Krans Hopeson
Hypercube Ventures
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Posted - 2009.12.16 14:33:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Aiko Intaki A better idea:
Introduce attribute boosters, which are drugs you can take in 0.0 and/or low sec that add a small amount to specific attribute scores for some period of time. Perhaps +1 to +3 for a 24 hour period with possible side effects. Make these player-made consumables, make them manufacturable only in 0.0 (based on gas types) and make them contraband in high sec like other 0.0 boosters.
This is actually a really really good idea. In fact, I don't see the downside.
CCP: do this. -- "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask." |
Valandril
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.16 14:36:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Valandril on 16/12/2009 14:36:36 Do that BUT remove implants at the same time so everyone will have to use boosters (and make those legal in highsec). I'm not even going to get into how awesome this would be for implant market.
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Zeerover
DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations
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Posted - 2009.12.16 14:50:00 -
[14]
The implant market is a great isk sink as it is. Most of the higher end implants come from LP stores, where half their cost is straight isk.
So no, let's no get rid of the implants.
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Tallaran Kouros
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.16 15:20:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Krans Hopeson
Originally by: Aiko Intaki A better idea:
Introduce attribute boosters, which are drugs you can take in 0.0 and/or low sec that add a small amount to specific attribute scores for some period of time. Perhaps +1 to +3 for a 24 hour period with possible side effects. Make these player-made consumables, make them manufacturable only in 0.0 (based on gas types) and make them contraband in high sec like other 0.0 boosters.
This is actually a really really good idea. In fact, I don't see the downside.
CCP: do this.
+1
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Valandril
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.16 15:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zeerover The implant market is a great isk sink as it is. Most of the higher end implants come from LP stores, where half their cost is straight isk.
So no, let's no get rid of the implants.
More than half of their cost and price will collapse till it's barely over isk price since there is too big influx of them and not enought of them are getting destroyed. New boosters could be also available from lp store, why not.
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Hugo Lordmagnus
Caldari Vexillari
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Posted - 2009.12.16 15:35:00 -
[17]
Originally by: darius mclever just use the 2 implants you are currently training for. so if you actually get podded you only loose 2 and not a full set. sounds smart?
Huh. I feel like a dunce for never having thought of this. Thanks for posting it.
But, back on topic: I like the risk of losing implants. Also, I used to think that getting Jump Clones would be difficult too, but it actually wasn't. It only takes me a few weeks of missioning on the side to get to 8.0 faction with any corp that offers combat L4s.
And yes, the 24 hour wait is a pain, but if you plan for it accordingly, there's minimal loss on training.
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Valandril
Caldari Silver Snake Enterprise Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.16 16:14:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hugo Lordmagnus
Originally by: darius mclever just use the 2 implants you are currently training for. so if you actually get podded you only loose 2 and not a full set. sounds smart?
Huh. I feel like a dunce for never having thought of this. Thanks for posting it.
But, back on topic: I like the risk of losing implants. Also, I used to think that getting Jump Clones would be difficult too, but it actually wasn't. It only takes me a few weeks of missioning on the side to get to 8.0 faction with any corp that offers combat L4s.
And yes, the 24 hour wait is a pain, but if you plan for it accordingly, there's minimal loss on training.
Or you can join empire corp providing jc service, or go to npc 0.0 and mount your clones, or join 0.0 alliance... and so on
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.16 16:18:00 -
[19]
Are you serious? I can't even believe some people are actually supporting this!
The only argument OP has presented outlines as follows:
Premise 1: It is possible to lose my pod, thus my implants in pvp. Premise 2: It is detrimental to lose my implants. Hidden Premise 3: Any possible detriment to me should be eliminated from the game.
Conclusion: CCP, please replace temporary attribute boosting implants by permanent learning skills that can't be lost.
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unloadedx16
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Posted - 2009.12.16 19:55:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Aiko Intaki Edited by: Aiko Intaki on 16/12/2009 13:52:13 Would you argue the same thing for +5% hardwirings? If not, why?
It basically sounds like you don't like implants as a whole because: 1. The top tier implants are expensive. 2. Jump clones are inconvenient. 3. High sec players can use them safely and you can't.
A better idea:
Introduce attribute boosters, which are drugs you can take in 0.0 and/or low sec that add a small amount to specific attribute scores for some period of time. Perhaps +1 to +3 for a 24 hour period with possible side effects. Make these player-made consumables, make them manufacturable only in 0.0 (based on gas types) and make them contraband in high sec like other 0.0 boosters.
With something like this you could use your cheap, ****ty attribute implants AND consume boosters to easily get comparable training times to those folks sitting in high sec with a half billion ISK worth of attribute implants in their head. If you then wanted to risk running in low sec or 0.0 with more expensive, less ****ty implant you could even exceed that.
I like this idea also, why? because it would make the game more fair!
Lets look at risk vs reward in a bigger picture. Risk being losing your implants and reward being faster training time.
1)Players in empire that do not take part in pvp have very low risk of losing their implants so in turn they fit better one wich equal faster training times. (low risk, High reward)
2)Players out in low or nul sec however have very high risk of losing their implants and in turn most fit cheap ones which equal slower training times. (High risk, low reward)
To me this doesn't seem fair that is why i support this idea.
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MsValentineWiggin
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Posted - 2009.12.17 05:09:00 -
[21]
Edited by: MsValentineWiggin on 17/12/2009 05:10:55 Most things in EVE are not like WoW - you can buy, use and sell them - which I like. But rigs and either type of implant behave like WoW. :-(
If you are poor without implants or rich with 5s, then it is not an issue. But I have 3s that would be very, very unpleasant to lose. So I just don't understand the "just go try some PVP." Conventional wisdom is if you stay lo-sec(avoid bubbles) and avoid smartbombs, you should not lose your pod. That sure is not credible in Dominion; my Mac was crashing about once every hour.
You can use JC to preserve your implants. But there is a 24 hour delay without implant bonuses, if you are online exactly 24 hours later. So usually it will be more. Rank1 @ 4 and Rank 3 @ 3 and +3 implant = both skills at 5. My first 3 million SP were in learning skills. Removing all +3s is like wasting 3 million SP or 1.5 Battleship V skills.
My analysis is you can PVP in losec until you lag or train like you did not spend the SP in learning skills or not PVP.
If you don't care about efficient skill training, this is not much of an issue. ( Then WTF are you plating EVE - the spreadsheet with a game front end????? that makes no sense to me. ) CCP making implants like WoW Bind-on-Pickup instead of like other EVE modules discourages PVP, especially people who want to try it. I assume it was deliberate. I do not understand why they did that.
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Teetxe
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Posted - 2009.12.17 09:03:00 -
[22]
I stand by the fact that implants provide people with a reason to not engage in more dangerous activities. As often the implants are worth more then their ships. Now, if their ships were the most expensive thing .. then who cares about the risk. There would be ALOT more action around the place, as well as an overall healthier economy due to a much larger amount of ships being popped.
The more risk you take, the more reward there should be for you. ATM this is NOT the case in relation to attribute implants. |
Dr Karsun
Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.17 09:43:00 -
[23]
I find the system really ok.
Everybody who flies 0.0 or l4 missions can easily afford a loss of +4 implanst, just fly with clones that has 2 +4 implants, have jc with +4 implants, only two, and when you change another skill requiring a different set of atributes, just jump to it. And for the week keep a +5 clone in deep high sec and during the few days / weeks you can't undock or even log in you'll benefit of a +5 set.
And what's the problem?
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