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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 10:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dark Motoko on 18/12/2009 11:01:12
Because no one else seems to want to say it on here, I will.
As an alliance leader of two years, and a fleet commander for a year or more before that, a big issue I've noticed has always been how to get information effectively across to a member base in order to get things done.
Things such as stating ventrilo information, killboard passwords, engagement policies, standard logistical methods and a myriad of other useful pieces of information that you don't really want members having to delve into forums to find, but rather to have it in some quick relatively nicely indexed resource.
The old mail system allowed for this.
Members of the Vanguard quickly learned that if there was any piece of everyday info on such topics as the above, you'd find it by going to Alliance Mail, and checking under my name. It was simple, it worked, and it was neat and easy to get used to.
And most importantly, a new member joining a Vanguard corp, could see it.
The new mailing system which, while odd to get used to as with any new system, doesn't seem to do this. A new member having joined today, apparently doesn't see these mails since they've been made before he joined. So, the natural fix that comes to mind is the bulletin board.
But considering that Alliance mail is now a jumble of mails arriving by order, rather than sectioned off neatly under player names - the bulletin board seems a preferable option for other items too, such as fleet rally mails and the like. But it doesn't get sorted neatly into player names, each effectively denoting their own section of mails. It's one long line of whatever people feel needs to be conveyed to the membership.Pretty soon, you're sifting through a LOT of messages irrelevant at the time in one long line, because there's no other permanently viewable resource, as ally mail used to serve as.
Was it just me that thought the old method was incredibly convenient?
Honestly, I look at the new mailing system, and I see a previous solution that worked perfectly adequately, changed to something that entirely removes the method by which we used to organise ourselves and communicate.
Before Dominion hit, I honestly cannot recall in several years of play, anyone ever complaining about the actual system of mail in eve. The browser certainly, and the new installment there is a definite improvement, for which I thank CCP for. But I do not see what the motivation was for this mail replacement at all, or why this current version was released - when it truly seems to have more damaged our ability to communicate than augmented it. CCP do not appear to have actually considered the way in which we used the mail system by and large when considering how best to update it.
Post Dominion, the number of times I've heard people reminiscing over the old mail system, and repeating comments such as I have mirrored above have been many and varied.
Perhaps it's me, and I've simply misunderstood a mechanic within the new systems' use. Certainly possible. But try as I may, I still find myself wishing for what CCP deemed antiquated and in need of replacement.
I'd like to hear your thoughts.
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Midge Mo'yb
Caldari
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.12.18 10:57:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Midge Mo''yb on 18/12/2009 11:01:37
use the alliance bulletins, thats what we turned to. - but i agree it sucks
i like the mail system as a whole for individual pilot use, but as a central communication point for an organisation its ****.
i wouldnt mind, if new people saw old messages on the alliance mailing lists
i do like how yo ucant post to alliance mail without a certain permission though :D
also, i think this is just a stepping stone to Spacebook, once thats here i think were getting calendars and **** to play with that are integrated with the game so it will mean ops will move to that etc
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RenegadeChemist
Caldari
Universal Exports
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.18 10:59:00 -
[3]
New mail system wins the old one just by a lightyear...
And use the bulleting board, it's designed for that...
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:06:00 -
[4]
Between players, the new system is fine. The interface is perfectly alright in that regard and I'm not criticizing that part of its application.
It's the way in which Alliance Mail is no longer a permanent store of useful information as I'm sure we've all used it - The bulletin boards can't replace the way old alliance mail fulfilled this role, purely because of the way you can't post as much on there before it becomes a jumbled mess, and getting the membership to sift through it for that vital mandatory op note becomes harder as a result.
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Midge Mo'yb
Caldari
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:07:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Dark Motoko
Between players, the new system is fine. The interface is perfectly alright in that regard and I'm not criticizing that part of its application.
It's the way in which Alliance Mail is no longer a permanent store of useful information as I'm sure we've all used it - The bulletin boards can't replace the way old alliance mail fulfilled this role, purely because of the way you can't post as much on there before it becomes a jumbled mess, and getting the membership to sift through it for that vital mandatory op note becomes harder as a result.
well whe nyou send out a mail everyone gets it - people should just read there mails as usual, they still get the message - the only thing this would change is for newcomers between time the mail was sent and the op taking place
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Kappas.
Gallente
Galaxy Punks
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:07:00 -
[6]
How about you use a forum?
HI DARK!
__________________
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:11:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Dark Motoko on 18/12/2009 11:16:07
Yeah, forums can replace it - but if you take a few hundred members and tell them that the permanent store of basic info on topics like vent info, engagement policies, humdrum items like that - are on a forum they need to register for - you'll have dozens that decide it's too much effort.
Hell, it was hard enough to get an alliance to pick through Ally mail for the right info, what makes you think this will do anything other than reduce the number of those that bother?
The issue for newcomers not being able to see ally mails is the main one for me. We simply can't afford to fill the alliance bulletin with every piece of standard info that might crop up. Not without making it so ops sheduled through there recieve less attention as people stop sifting through the list in frustration.
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
well whe nyou send out a mail everyone gets it - people should just read there mails as usual, they still get the message - the only thing this would change is for newcomers between time the mail was sent and the op taking place
Perfectly true, but my point is, do you send out a new mail repeating what your vent info is every time a few new members join? Or a new corp? The ally mail is no longer suitable for the application we've become used to it filling after years working like this.
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Shirley C
Amarr
BulletProof Monks
Sons of Tangra
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:25:00 -
[8]
Im sorry but shouldnt each corp within the alliance be desseminating the information to their members themselves?
It isnt difficult...
Dont get me wrong, I understand and somewhat agree with what you are saying, BUT, if new members arent getting the correct information then the people who recruited them arent doing their jobs properly.
Good luck :)
SC
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Midge Mo'yb
Caldari
Antares Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Dark Motoko
Edited by: Dark Motoko on 18/12/2009 11:20:00
Yeah, forums can replace it - but if you take a few hundred members and tell them that the permanent store of basic info on topics like vent info, engagement policies, humdrum items like that - are on a forum they need to register for - you'll have dozens that decide it's too much effort. And if the solution to this supposedly better mail system, is to shift communication out of eve and into forums, what does that say about the effect the new mail system has had?
Hell, it was hard enough to get an alliance to pick through Ally mail for the right info, what makes you think this will do anything other than reduce the number of those that bother?
The issue for newcomers not being able to see ally mails is the main one for me. We simply can't afford to fill the alliance bulletin with every piece of standard info that might crop up. Not without making it so ops sheduled through there recieve less attention as people stop sifting through the list in frustration.
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
well whe nyou send out a mail everyone gets it - people should just read there mails as usual, they still get the message - the only thing this would change is for newcomers between time the mail was sent and the op taking place
Perfectly true, but my point is, do you send out a new mail repeating what your vent info is every time a few new members join? Or a new corp? The ally mail is no longer suitable for the application we've become used to it filling after years working like this.
we keep our vent info, forum info+ few words on our bulletin board, the static info so to speak... rest is on alliance mail.
works for us ;)
i do howerver agree its inconvenient since we didhave a perfectly capable system - but changes mean we have to adapt, hopefully spacebook will expand on the communication systems and take less load off alliance mail so to speak.
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Dark Motoko
Caldari
Stormlord Battleforce
Vanguard.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:28:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Dark Motoko on 18/12/2009 11:28:37
Originally by: Shirley C
Im sorry but shouldnt each corp within the alliance be desseminating the information to their members themselves?
It isnt difficult...
Dont get me wrong, I understand and somewhat agree with what you are saying, BUT, if new members arent getting the correct information then the people who recruited them arent doing their jobs properly.
Good luck :)
SC
Well, with the past system, that work wasn't necessary. We had a simple central resource for this information.
Think about it, you're saying we should accept doing more legwork to disseminate information that previously was easily dispersed through one means. Ergo, the new system has made things more difficult than better.
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Hannah Ganktannah
Caldari
Trigrams Edge
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:32:00 -
[11]
Use API?
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Sub Trader
Minmatar
Victory Not Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:05:00 -
[12]
old mail system was fine i thought, just needed a few tweaks, now it seems very ugly to look at and use
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Allahs Warrior
Gallente
Reverse Psychology.
Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:05:00 -
[13]
inb4move.
also I complained a bit about the old mail system, but they only needed a couple more options to add on...not a complete revamp.
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Tekumze Wolf
Minmatar
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:52:00 -
[14]
Dark Motoko:
Why not use simple website them. Make use of that fancy WORKING browser we have in game now.
Use bulletins and make links to more info.
I think that's fairly easy for anyone to check and there's no log in required.
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Tuskes Vanek
Minmatar
FinFleet
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:49:00 -
[15]
Just use the alliance bulletins, thats what it is designed for, to keep persistent information.
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Major Stallion
Caldari
Total Mayhem.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 22:12:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Dark Motoko
Yeah, forums can replace it - but if you take a few hundred members and tell them that the permanent store of basic info on topics like vent info, engagement policies, humdrum items like that - are on a forum they need to register for - you'll have dozens that decide it's too much effort.
Forums are a REQUIREMENT for being in an alliance. Every alliance that's *serious* about the game has one. Even the not-so-serious have forums. If you cba to take 30 seconds to sign up for a forum, then you dont belong tbh. It's a good way to weed out the people who don't care.
I also have to disagree with you that the new mail system is terrible. You really cant honestly say that you never once heard anyone gripe about the old system? You mustn't have been reading the same forums as the rest of us? |
Cors
Gallente
It's A Trap
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Posted - 2009.12.20 02:55:00 -
[17]
Keep in mind that CCP will "soon" be deploying their new social networking system "New Eden".
In this will apparently be news, calenders, some sort of forums(Maybe) voice coms, and a whole slew of other ways of disseminating info.
The EVE mail upgrade was just a part of it. We'll just have to wait till New Eden.
ATM just use your forums, make a section JUST for alliance info. That way folks don't have to hunt for it.
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Z101
Gallente
Pilots Of Honour
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 13:56:00 -
[18]
The new browser (igb) means the new/old can login and read forums while ingame, or out of game.
imho - being dependent on communication that is available only ingame is fail. A lot can be done before logging in - preparing who needs to be doing what, getting commitments, etc.
We kept our use of alliance mails - and corp mails - to a minimum. Too many people "replied" / commented / etc. and just made spagetti.
My solution for newbies was to create a seperate mailing list. - hint
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