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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Lord Zim
863
   |
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:42:00 -
[451] - Quote
Riedle wrote:Edit - I was always talking about small gang. You humpbacks weren't able to see what I was talking about because you were too busy congratulating yourselves for being in Goonswarm.
aaaaaahahahahaha now that's a rewrite of posting history. Holy ****. |
Lord Zim
863
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:42:00 -
[452] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Well this thread went to ****.
mlyp, fhc boy. |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
239
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:45:00 -
[453] - Quote
Weaselior wrote:Riedle wrote:
look the question was asked and I gave my thoughts on the answer and one of my thoughts on the answer is the nerfing of JB's. There is nothing from the venom spewed my way to make me think that nerfing JB's isn't part of the answer but I never claimed it was the whole answer.
The venom is because nerfing jump bridges won't do any of the things people (like CCP greyscale) think nerfing them will do. Suggesting it betrays a deep lack of understanding of how projecting power in EVE works. What it does do is make doing basic routine stuff in 0.0 more of a pain in the ass. All of our stations are spread out, so we have to travel a lot more to do the same thing. It doesn't actually affect "the blob", power projection, or logistics, all of which are done through other means. What it does affect is when you want to get from point A to point B for a boring, routine thing and want it to take 3 minutes instead of 10.
I agree. I remember life before jump bridging; moving around was not as fun but we still moved things around.. The only difference is it took a much larger group to move things in a time frame.. so if anything nerfing J-bridges will do the opposite of what many people think removing them would do. You would be mandating a larger group.
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
1296
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:46:00 -
[454] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Well this thread went to ****.
There's always at least one guy who holds onto some dumb idea like "nerf jump bridges it will break up all these 0.0 alliances" or "nerf local and rotate moon goo it will break up all these 0.0 alliances" in the face of indisputable evidence and gets all angry and banned, it just happens man. Just like when you try to convince a fundamentalist that cavemen and dinosaurs didn't live side by side |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:47:00 -
[455] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Well this thread went to ****.
Says legendary "constructive poster", marlona sky.
Maybe if people stop talking about things they're utterly clueless of, other people won't have to spend ten pages disabusing them of their ridiculous opinions |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
86
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:52:00 -
[456] - Quote
Im trying to remember a time when small gang pvp in 0.0 was actually more than a myth |
Dragon Outlaw
Rogue Fleet
117
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:53:00 -
[457] - Quote
dontbanmebro wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:Well this thread went to ****. Says legendary "constructive poster", marlona sky. Maybe if people stop talking about things they're utterly clueless of, other people won't have to spend ten pages disabusing them of their ridiculous opinions
Well I for one enjoy watching Forum PvP. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1084
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:55:00 -
[458] - Quote
Dramaticus wrote:Im trying to remember a time when small gang pvp in 0.0 was actually more than a myth
it's more like the holy grail, all the small gang pvpers talk about it on the forums but they never seem to find each other
yeah i stole malcanis' line, deal with it
eh |
Barbara Nichole
Cryogenic Consultancy
Black Sun Alliance
239
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:59:00 -
[459] - Quote
Adelphie wrote:Barbara Nichole wrote:How can you know that null sec is boring and safe and high sec "in many case" is more dangerous and yet come to the conclusion that high sec needs yet more nerfing? If you're refering to the original post, then I fail to see where I came to the conclusion that highsec needs nerfing. Forcing players to move by the stick and not the carrot is not the right way to go. Boost null - yes, but nerfing highsec just pisses too many people off.
I'm sorry; your post didn't make it clear that what you wanted was anything other than more disparity between null and high sec... which some have repeatedly said should be accomplished by nerfing high sec. Even if you expect to achieve your stated goal by adding more valueable stuff to null sec and not high sec how should I not interprete this is a backhanded nerf for high sec .. especially when you admit that in many cases the risk is as great or greater in high sec?
[IMG]http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a208/DawnFrostbringer/OldST.jpg[/IMG] |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:01:00 -
[460] - Quote
Dragon Outlaw wrote:Well I for one enjoy watching Forum PvP.
That's all GD is really good for. The idea that you can have an honest and constructive debate in an open forum with anonymous space avatars is beyond farce.
That's why knowledge communities have qualifications and very strict formats for discourse. Imagine if biologists working on some advanced topic had to address the input of some anonymous creationist every few posts. It just wouldn't work.
The irony of someone like marlona decrying a lack of constructiveness is overwhelming, as people like him are a key reason this forum is utter trash and only good for verbally mushroom-stamping fools. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1085
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:11:00 -
[461] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:especially when you admit that in many cases the risk is as great or greater in high sec?
See, this is where you're wrong. Hisec gets risky if you're a hulk miner who refuses to fit a tank while AFK mining during Hulkageddon, it gets risky if you're autopiloting a pimped out ship, it gets risky if you're flying a hauler with hundreds of millions of ISK in cargo. In nullsec, an attacker has no need to be as selective. Killing you will not cost them their ship, tanking your Hulk doesn't make a difference because you shouldn't be in a position to need a tank anyway (not that it'll help you) and let's not forget that losing your space means losing access to all of your assets in said space.
eh |
Lord Zim
863
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:13:00 -
[462] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote:especially when you admit that in many cases the risk is as great or greater in high sec?
How? |
Nicolo da'Vicenza
Divine Power.
Cascade Imminent
1296
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:13:00 -
[463] - Quote
Barbara Nichole wrote: especially when you admit that in many cases the risk is as great or greater in high sec?
It's not. The risk is highsec is so low that players get ridiculously complacent and refuse to take any safety precautions. That is the only 'risk' in highsec. |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1085
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:23:00 -
[464] - Quote
Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote:It's not. The risk is highsec is so low that players get ridiculously complacent and refuse to take any safety precautions. That is the only 'risk' in highsec.
This is also true. A lot of hiseccers will autopilot pods with pirate implants or +5s and a set of +6% hardwirings between market hubs, and many don't bother to upgrade their clones because they see it as a waste of ISK in an area of space that they perceive to be safe. While this is generally 'safe', all it takes is one bored Thrasher pilot to ruin your day. Also, every time that CCP has buffed CONCORD response time, we've seen a proportional increase in how complacent hiseccers get, so while potential gankers would need to spend more ISK to gank them, the victims are usually better targets than before.
One shining example of such complacency is that Nightmare pilot who was suicide ganked by Ev0ke Tempests - his ship alone had such a ridiculous amount of ISK worth in mods that he could have purchased and fitted out a Titan, and he most likely had a full Crystal set accompanied by +6% hardwirings.
Nullseccers, on the other hand, may find themselves fitting out fairly expensive ships for PvE or even PvP, especially supercapitals, but for the most part, we expect to lose them eventually.
Running hisec L4s in a T2 fit Tengu is certainly far safer than running anoms in nullsec in a Drake.
eh |
Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:25:00 -
[465] - Quote
The way I see it overall is how everyone wants to solve the problem but simply refuse accepting any of the solutions that would actually solve said problems.
I've seen a magnitude of ideas that would make EVE a lot more fun than it already is and probably also improve (not solve entirely, cause the problem at hand is due to quite a few factors IMO) the whole flow of player movement and migration all over.
Some of the problems at hand that I can think of which ALL contribute to why things are the way they are is this:
1. Gates/gatecamps - fixed entry and fixed exit. Has it's good points, but generally the bad points are happily ignored by most. Quite a big part of the problem at hand. The whole jumping around also contributes quite a bit to the problem as it totally eliminates the need for several strategic elements. Free entry/fixed exit would be a great compromise.
2. Resource distribution in the game. Redistribution in such a way that it would take into account an EVE without jump capabilities (Titans and such excluded of course), as logistics is yet another part of the problem at hand.
3. Intel, stealth and a flawed/outdated "detection" system in EVE overall. The naval/submarine suggestion made by whoever it now was quite a while ago (huge creds to you) would by itself already allow for the solving of several other problems, the main one being the gate issue.
4. Going back to logistics - and why jump freighters etc is a problem: it eliminates supply chains, strategic locations, alliance size weakness and so on. If we take Goonies or any of the other huge alliances out there: the strategy of zerging in itself is perfectly fine and valid - just that: it hardly seems to come with the disadvantages that it should have.
These are probably most of the major issues that are a part of the whole problem. There is no single solution. If people really want to see more people in low- and nullsec then they better start looking and accepting the core issues and be willing to actually change them.
Whining about "No spaceships to pewpew in my turf! CCP, force players to come and play with me!" and at the same time objecting to any fixes to the core issues will not yield you anything.
|
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
Psychotic Tendencies.
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:29:00 -
[466] - Quote
dontbanmebro wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:Well this thread went to ****. Says legendary "constructive poster", marlona sky. Maybe if people stop talking about things they're utterly clueless of, other people won't have to spend ten pages disabusing them of their ridiculous opinions
You could always explain how things really work in those aspects of the game instead of badgering them with insults and personal attacks. |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:36:00 -
[467] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:You could always explain how things really work in those aspects of the game instead of badgering them with insults and personal attacks.
The insults and personal attacks come after people refuse to be disabused of their uninformed opinions, particularly when they start with "it should be like x" instead of "is there a reason it's not like x?".
|
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1085
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:38:00 -
[468] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:Whining about "No spaceships to pewpew in my turf! CCP, force players to come and play with me!" and at the same time objecting to any fixes to the core issues will not yield you anything.
I'm just going to take this opportunity to disabuse you of the notion that making nullsec even more of a PITA to live in will bring more targets. It won't. Being able to bypass a gate entirely (i.e. not even moving a cyno ship into the system) will negate the whole concept of camping a pipe to kill stragglers. Removing local - see the whole PITA thing. Nerfing JFs will simply lead to people using carriers to cart stuff from empire, or titan bridging T1 freighters, and in the case of supercapital proliferation, building dreads in lowsec and reprocessing them in null to gather the components needed.
eh |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:46:00 -
[469] - Quote
The ultimate point is that CCP already know, in theory, what needs to be done, from talking with people who actually know wtf they're talking about. The only real issues are implementation and resource allocation, which are largely outside of even the CSM's input, and definitely outside of the influence of the hoi polloi.
|
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
Psychotic Tendencies.
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:48:00 -
[470] - Quote
dontbanmebro wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:You could always explain how things really work in those aspects of the game instead of badgering them with insults and personal attacks. The insults and personal attacks come after people refuse to be disabused of their uninformed opinions, particularly when they start with "it should be like x" instead of "is there a reason it's not like x?".
Well, explain it then. |
Lord Zim
863
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:53:00 -
[471] - Quote
As if it hasn't been explained, multiple times in this thread alone. |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 20:58:00 -
[472] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:As if it hasn't been explained, multiple times in this thread alone.
What she said.
|
Oisin Sandovar
Don't Die Interstellar Enterprises
7
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:01:00 -
[473] - Quote
Gillia Winddancer wrote:The way I see it overall is how everyone wants to solve the problem but simply refuse accepting any of the solutions that would actually solve said problems.
Indeed. It seems it's more important to win the forum war than it is to improve the game. |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness
Psychotic Tendencies.
96
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:01:00 -
[474] - Quote
Lord Zim wrote:As if it hasn't been explained, multiple times in this thread alone.
Why is there power blocs in null? Why isn't an alliance enough?
Question not specifically a Lord Sim only, but I would like to hear his take on it. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1089
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:02:00 -
[475] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:building dreads in lowsec and reprocessing them in null to gather the components needed.
Goodness. How many dreads need to be reprocessed to make a titan?
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3558
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:11:00 -
[476] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:dontbanmebro wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:Well this thread went to ****. Says legendary "constructive poster", marlona sky. Maybe if people stop talking about things they're utterly clueless of, other people won't have to spend ten pages disabusing them of their ridiculous opinions You could always explain how things really work in those aspects of the game instead of badgering them with insults and personal attacks.
this has been tried with you many times marlona sky
we, not being insane, have chosen to cease wondering if the same action will produce different results |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1086
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:12:00 -
[477] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:building dreads in lowsec and reprocessing them in null to gather the components needed. Goodness. How many dreads need to be reprocessed to make a titan?
Tons.
eh |
Lord Zim
863
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:12:00 -
[478] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Why is there power blocs in null? Why isn't an alliance enough?
Bacon. |
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3558
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:13:00 -
[479] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Lord Zim wrote:As if it hasn't been explained, multiple times in this thread alone. Why is there power blocs in null? Why isn't an alliance enough? Question not specifically a Lord Sim only, but I would like to hear his take on it.
0.0 is for empire building. Therefore, we build empires. This being a harsh game, part of the fun is that you're not guaranteed an empire and if we want to squash yours we can and that is not a design flaw. |
dontbanmebro
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
23
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 21:14:00 -
[480] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Why is there power blocs in null?
Because numbers generally help win fights.
Marconus Orion wrote:Why isn't an alliance enough?
While you may not want to share an alliance with some group, you are more than happy to share a loose strategic arrangement with them.
I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that you're operating under some "powerblocs are bad" paradigm, which is actually utterly false. Nullsec is a byzantine maze of overt and covert relations among individuals and groups. This is a natural and desirable product of the way the nullsec game is designed. |
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