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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 03:44:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Admiral Byng Liang, How do you get 719 DS with T1 ammo?
[Raven Navy Issue, Mission CNR] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Damage Control II
Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Target Painter II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I
Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I
Warrior II x5 Bouncer II x3
No implants, include reload time, include drones. Like I said. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Johann Callasan
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.21 03:45:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Admiral Byng
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Silvarus Trighton True but how much time do you save approaching those spaced out mission gates when you can go 700m/s versus slowboating it in a BS? Then there is also the added agility so that its not like moving around a semi when you align to gates or approach things. It may not sound like much but it defiantly adds up.
All in all I think the trade-offs balance out. So that's why most tengu pilots would agree, yeah a golem is superior (due to higher DPS and drones), but a tengu is right up there just under a golem but with the added perc of a little extra excitement when running missions. You gotta be on your toes when you fly T3, you cant just be snoring through it. Also training for a tengu takes about half the time as a golem which makes it much more accessible.
Comments: - Almost 100% of the missions I run plop by big fat battleship out right on top of the next gate (or within 10km or so of it). Thus, arguments relating to travel time affect a grand total of like 3 missions (Recon 2,3, The Score, Worlds Collide, maybe a few more but certainly not many at all). Which is to say that this is a minor issue, at best. - Trading 5 seconds of align time when warping vs repeatedly chasing rats all over the grid (10-20 seconds a piece) is a fantastic trade. - The time lost chasing rats is a huge penalty to your mission running time. Let's quantify how much. Statistics have no implants, include drones where appropriate, and include reload time. The Tengu listed earlier in the thread deals 814 DPS. Ammo | CNR DPS | Travel time (Makeup time) T1 Wrath | 719 | 15s (113s) CN Wrath | 803 | 15s (1095s) Fury Wrath | 876 | 1s (Inf) - The kin damage bonus makes for a very inefficient mission experience. It can be offset by having many agents and only picking the Kin weak missions, but putting the CNR in the same spot would mean the CNR simply picked more profitable missions. Or you can run the non kin missions, and the CNR will speed on by you. - I've flown a max skilled Tengu, and (from experience) it is not a world class mission runner. - High "accessibility" doesn't make a ship a world class mission ship. Why would I fly it when I can fly something better?
-Liang
Liang, How do you get 719 DS with T1 ammo?
Figured it out - Caldari Offensive Subsystems and Warhead Upgrades at Level V, with 4 BCS II.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 03:51:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Johann Callasan Figured it out - Caldari Offensive Subsystems and Warhead Upgrades at Level V, with 4 BCS II.
Caldari Offensive Subsystems has nothing to do with a CNR. The Tengu was quoted at 814 DPS. All ships compared used 4 CN BCUs.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Silvarus Trighton
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Posted - 2009.12.21 04:58:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Silvarus Trighton on 21/12/2009 05:00:17
Originally by: Liang Nuren
- I've flown a max skilled Tengu, and (from experience) it is not a world class mission runner.
Aka its not as good as a marauder. Yes I've already conceded that. Marauders do have the tractor/salvage bonus which is huge. But I do think it edges out all the T1 battleships, faction or otherwise.
Regular battleships dont kill fast enough to warrant their slow speeds. I don't run missions in caldari space so maybe my mission composition is different than yours but I'd say at least 50% of my missions require moving a somewhat substantial amount of space (10km+). Its not just gates you have to chug towards at your hotrod 100m/s, it's mission cans too.
Then they also have the slower locking time. Your battleship is gonna take ~22 seconds to lock frigs. A t3 with a targeting subsystem will do it in just under 4s, about 6.5s without. Add to that the tengu's ability to absolutely melt the sub-BS ships and this means you can target up, pop, and cycle through all the sub-BS ships as fast as you can physically handle.
Most mission rats are in smaller ships anyways (id say 75% of mission targets are sub-BS ships, and 25% of them are BSs). The BSs may drop slightly faster when you're in a BS, but killing the ships that make up 25% of mission targets (BSs) 10% faster, won't complete a mission as fast as killing 75% of the mission targets 100% faster.
Also you aren't chasing rats down much at all with a HAM range of 35km-40km and HM ranges at 125km.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 05:24:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Silvarus Trighton Aka its not as good as a marauder. Yes I've already conceded that. Marauders do have the tractor/salvage bonus which is huge. But I do think it edges out all the T1 battleships, faction or otherwise.
No, I said it wasn't as good as the top tier mission runners - which includes faction battleships. A CNR will wipe the floor with a Tengu at running missions.
Quote: Regular battleships dont kill fast enough to warrant their slow speeds. I don't run missions in caldari space so maybe my mission composition is different than yours but I'd say at least 50% of my missions require moving a somewhat substantial amount of space (10km+). Its not just gates you have to chug towards at your hotrod 100m/s, it's mission cans too.
10km is incredibly small when you consider the amount of ships you have to kill. Who do you think will get to a gate 10km off - the guy who has to fly 10km at 100ms or the guy who has to fly 90km chasing rats at 650ms? Also, may I introduce you to the tractor beam?
Quote: Then they also have the slower locking time. Your battleship is gonna take ~22 seconds to lock frigs.
Lock time is not an issue - its a one time cost (and at that, the lock time of a battleship). Additionally: who the **** locks frigs in a BS?
Quote: A t3 with a targeting subsystem will do it in just under 4s, about 6.5s without. Add to that the tengu's ability to absolutely melt the sub-BS ships and this means you can target up, pop, and cycle through all the sub-BS ships as fast as you can physically handle.
It's not quite as nice as you make it out, but its nice. May I point out the rigors and TP on the CNR? It also blasts through anything cruiser sized and larger.
Quote: Most mission rats are in smaller ships anyways (id say 75% of mission targets are sub-BS ships, and 25% of them are BSs). The BSs may drop slightly faster when you're in a BS, but killing the ships that make up 25% of mission targets (BSs) 10% faster, won't complete a mission as fast as killing 75% of the mission targets 100% faster.
Sigh, you really are a fanboy aren't you? Even against a kinetic weak enemy, the the Tengu can barely keep up with the CNR. Once you factor in even a tiny bit of travel time, it isn't even approaching "keeping up".
Quote: Also you aren't chasing rats down much at all with a HAM range of 35km-40km and HM ranges at 125km.
I frequently find things well out of range of my Golem, and it has even more range than that.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.12.21 05:34:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Silvarus Trighton
Then they also have the slower locking time. Your battleship is gonna take ~22 seconds to lock frigs. A t3 with a targeting subsystem will do it in just under 4s, about 6.5s without. Add to that the tengu's ability to absolutely melt the sub-BS ships and this means you can target up, pop, and cycle through all the sub-BS ships as fast as you can physically handle.
Golem can have up to 10 targets queued up, which helps to mitigate the problem. Plus frigates tend to orbit close in so your drones tend to handle them without explicit locks.
Quote: Most mission rats are in smaller ships anyways (id say 75% of mission targets are sub-BS ships, and 25% of them are BSs). The BSs may drop slightly faster when you're in a BS, but killing the ships that make up 25% of mission targets (BSs) 10% faster, won't complete a mission as fast as killing 75% of the mission targets 100% faster.
And battleships tend to have three to four times the EHP of cruisers. Plus a torp Golem can kill cruisers as fast as a cruise missile CNR. Javelins can one shot BCs. Torps can one shot T1 cruisers.
A Tengu doesn't have drones and has to take the time to kill frigates with HAMs/HMLs. In my experience, oftentimes my Golem can kill everything cruiser size and bigger before the drones finish killing off the frigates.
Quote: Also you aren't chasing rats down much at all with a HAM range of 35km-40km and HM ranges at 125km.
My concern would be if you're chasing the rats at all, then the rats tend to increase their speed to get to orbit distance. Target velocity noticeably reduces missile damage, so ideally, you want them moving at the slower orbit speed.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:22:00 -
[37]
I dont understand... there are so few npc that orbit more than 30km.
Having 80km range is ok to kill npc during approach, but after that? The extra 200 dps of the tengu over the cnr don't worth it ?
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod I dont understand... there are so few npc that orbit more than 30km.
Right now, I'm running Stop the Thief in the second room. The spawns start 80-100km away, and travel at 220 m/s. Supposing you travel 680 m/s and have 35km range on your HAMs, it takes you about a minute to get into firing range of them, and about a minute to get back to the gate. So that equates to a 2 minute damage advantage for the CNR (between this room and the next).
2 * 60 * 719 = 86280 damage. Your one hundred DPS advantage (assuming I use T1 cruise to your T2 HAMs) takes 862 seconds to overcome my damage lead. Third room, the CNR rams a cruise missile down the jerk's throat and warps out. Your Tengu flies 50km+.
And Stop the Thief is one of the missions where I would actually take a Tengu... because I was foolish enough to sell my CNR.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.21 09:41:00 -
[39]
The problem really comes from a lot of people being incapable of visualising an actual scenario.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:14:00 -
[40]
@Liang
you seems to be honest.
I will still training for tengu since it opens the T2 cruisers, but then i will move to CNR & Golem
thanx
bye
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:21:00 -
[41]
Fit 2x eccm, get talons and move to lowsec/nullsec mission hub /add interdiction nullifier for 0.0/. You will get better isk/h than any marauder, just keep in mind that angel rats can paint you and can make you probable.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:02:00 -
[42]
a true carebear never go to lowsec or nullsec. specialy with a 2b-losing-skills ship =p
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod a true carebear never go to lowsec or nullsec. specialy with a 2b-losing-skills ship =p
Actually, I was just looking at that.
[Tengu, Unprobable Mission Runner] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
10MN Afterburner II Pithi A-Type Small Shield Booster Invulnerability Field II Photon Scattering Field II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECCM - Gravimetric II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile
Medium Capacitor Control Circuit I Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II Medium Hydraulic Bay Thrusters II
Tengu Defensive - Amplification Node Tengu Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Tengu Electronics - Dissolution Sequencer Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Tengu Propulsion - Fuel Catalyst
HG Talon Set
I'd still just take a Raven, but whatever. ;-)
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Kaala Yeal
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:29:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kaala Yeal on 21/12/2009 11:29:34 Just go with a torpedo CNR to facemelt everything =P
[Raven Navy Issue, Torpedo CNR Facemelt] Damage Control II Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System
Pithum A-Type Medium Shield Booster Dread Guristas Shield Boost Amplifier Photon Scattering Field II Photon Scattering Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Domination Target Painter
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Javelin Torpedo [empty high slot]
Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Large Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Large Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I
1000 DPS at 68km. 1260 DPS at 46km.
Both without drones.
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:54:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod I dont understand... there are so few npc that orbit more than 30km.
Right now, I'm running Stop the Thief in the second room. The spawns start 80-100km away, and travel at 220 m/s. Supposing you travel 680 m/s and have 35km range on your HAMs, it takes you about a minute to get into firing range of them, and about a minute to get back to the gate. So that equates to a 2 minute damage advantage for the CNR (between this room and the next).
2 * 60 * 719 = 86280 damage. Your one hundred DPS advantage (assuming I use T1 cruise to your T2 HAMs) takes 862 seconds to overcome my damage lead. Third room, the CNR rams a cruise missile down the jerk's throat and warps out. Your Tengu flies 50km+.
And Stop the Thief is one of the missions where I would actually take a Tengu... because I was foolish enough to sell my CNR.
-Liang
You weren't running Stop the Thief, since there is no second room. I'll take a guess that you are talking about Silence the Informant.
And off the top of my head, these missions also have spawns starting at well past HAM range (and why I won't ever bother training them up).
World Collide* Mining Misappropriation Gone Berserk* Massive Attack Vengeance* The Assault* The Score The Blockade* Angel Extravaganza*
and I could go on...
(*=good missions you don't want to decline, seems to be a trend.) But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
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Silvarus Trighton
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:13:00 -
[46]
My whole point in arguing in favor of T3 is not to prove that everyone should drop what they are running and get a T3. The reason I argue is because it is a unique class of ship that not only can at the very least compete with battleships in doing L4s (and dont even try to refute that), but is also fun and exciting to fly. It can put out near BS damage, have an un-beatable speed tank, can re-fit to a salvager with 40km tractor ranges, and did I mention it was fun?
I've flown battleships and i've flown T3 for L4 missions. My completion times are usually with 5min using T3 as they were with my BS. Sometimes 5 min later, sometimes 5 min faster. But one huge difference is that I'm actually enjoying the missions a lot more (this is a game BTW) now in a T3 than I was in my battleship. So in my case, I would rather sacrifice completing missions ~10% faster (as I would in a BS) in exchange for more enjoyment flying a T3.
So i'll leave this as my bottom line: T3 defiantly competes with the best efficiency wise, while also possibly being a more enjoyable process for people who perhaps don't particularly enjoy the playstyle of battleships.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:24:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Silvarus Trighton My whole point in arguing in favor of T3 is not to prove that everyone should drop what they are running and get a T3. The reason I argue is because it is a unique class of ship that not only can at the very least compete with battleships in doing L4s (and dont even try to refute that), but is also fun and exciting to fly. It can put out near BS damage, have an un-beatable speed tank, can re-fit to a salvager with 40km tractor ranges, and did I mention it was fun?
It can in fact compete with vanilla T1 battleships. It can not compete with top tier mission battleships. Not by a long shot. But, if you want to say "I find it more fun to run missions in my Tengu" - then by all means say it. But don't claim it is even remotely a top tier mission runner. Because it isn't.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Pantload
Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2009.12.21 21:14:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Pantload on 21/12/2009 21:15:53
Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 19/12/2009 17:32:38
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod With heavy assault, you have 27km of range but your ship have 650ms speed. Needless to say that with HAM faction fit + T2 kinetic ammo + implants, your dps is around 1000 (!!!) But, is it really effective?
Not really - think of it like this. If you are shooting an enemy orbiting 20km away, you can sit still and spam HAMs. If you're shooting an enemy 50km away, you have to travel 25km (40 seconds) before you can effectively shoot them. This murders the Tengu's efficiency.
Cheers, PL
I have a 1000 DPS Tengu myself, and I use the Tengu in any mission that I've historically found to be a PITA in my Golem (because of travel time). However, I find myself wishing I could sell it for my old CNR - because CNR >>>>>>>>>>>>> Tengu unless you've got miles to go before you sleep (gate).
-Liang
Ed: I fail. At grammar too. GAH. <-- total noob
Could you please post the 1k dps fit? I'm very curious about it myself. I can only reach about 920-930 dps w/ HAMs, 4x faction BCS, and Kinetic Rages. I'm probably overlooking something.
Cheers, PL
*edit* for epic typing failure.
TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 21:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Pantload
Could you please post the 1k dps fit? I'm very curious about it myself. I can only reach about 920-930 dps w/ HAMs, 4x faction BCS, and Kinetic Rages. I'm probably overlooking something.
Cheers, PL
*edit* for epic typing failure.
The 1000 DPS Tengu is in this thread. The exact number is ~988 or something, and its arrived at with 5% hardwirings and ignoring reload time in EFT. What you'll "actually" get is listed in my post illustrating the penalty of being forced to move to fire. IIRC, its 814 DPS.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Pantload
Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2009.12.21 22:10:00 -
[50]
Ok. Thanks. I must have already seen it and didnt know. I always use reload time for dps in EFT. Seems a bit more realistic. Had not really thought of affect on actual DPS from moving around, but it is interesting. Much appreciated.
Cheers, Pl
TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
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cianide pro
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Posted - 2009.12.22 06:57:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
It can in fact compete with vanilla T1 battleships. It can not compete with top tier mission battleships. Not by a long shot. But, if you want to say "I find it more fun to run missions in my Tengu" - then by all means say it. But don't claim it is even remotely a top tier mission runner. Because it isn't.
-Liang
It can compete with top tier mission battleships and its a top tier mission runner.
You can take one fitting and go in any lvl4 mission start shooting on all that moves even without worrying about what you agro as you will be able to tank the lot anyway, dedicate range with the 650m/s and you will be able to kill all without a lot of trouble. Sounds to me as a top tier mission runner. Maybe some bs's do more damage but its not about numbers and speed to finish a mission only as that has to be seen what is faster in the end. Frigs are dead even before a bs can lock them, travel speed, going into warp if you cant see the benefits of a mission running tengu over a bs then dont fly it and leave it up to the players who can
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:11:00 -
[52]
Originally by: cianide pro It can compete with top tier mission battleships and its a top tier mission runner.
You can take one fitting and go in any lvl4 mission start shooting on all that moves even without worrying about what you agro as you will be able to tank the lot anyway, dedicate range with the 650m/s and you will be able to kill all without a lot of trouble. Sounds to me as a top tier mission runner.
Having a big tank or being able to dictate range doesn't make a great mission ship. What makes a good mission ship is damage while having sufficient tank. And there can be other mitigating factors which increase your ISK/hr, such as being able to loot/salvage on the go. The Tengu doesn't do that.
Changing setups is a 2 second affair. Everything else you're saying is just more work than is necessary.
Quote: Maybe some bs's do more damage but its not about numbers and speed to finish a mission only as that has to be seen what is faster in the end. Frigs are dead even before a bs can lock them, travel speed, going into warp if you cant see the benefits of a mission running tengu over a bs then dont fly it and leave it up to the players who can
It isn't a maybe. They do more damage, and they generally apply it more effectively. Locking a frig isn't an issue, because you should never lock them in the first place. And its not like I can't fly a Tengu. I have one - 5% hardwirings and all.
It's just a pile of **** next to a properly fitted CNR/Golem.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
cianide pro
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:25:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
It's just a pile of **** next to a properly fitted CNR/Golem.
-Liang
And this is pure nonsense and I did fly those ships, got even marauders lvl5 done so I also know what I talking about. Salvaging and looting during the killing is what my second toon does which it also did when I did fly golems in lvl4 but as mentioned before bs is just boring compared with flying these cruiser size beauties and you play a game not just for isk/hour but for fun also and if you take a few minutes longer over a mission so what that does not make this ship class a bad mission runner or not even close to the top tier bs's.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:26:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Liang Nuren on 22/12/2009 07:29:58
Originally by: cianide pro And this is pure nonsense and I did fly those ships, got even marauders lvl5 done so I also know what I talking about. Salvaging and looting during the killing is what my second toon does which it also did when I did fly golems in lvl4 but as mentioned before bs is just boring compared with flying these cruiser size beauties and you play a game not just for isk/hour but for fun also and if you take a few minutes longer over a mission so what that does not make this ship class a bad mission runner or not even close to the top tier bs's.
I kill people for fun. Missions are just something I have to do to kill people.
-Liang
Ed: Note that I don't dispute that the Tengu can run the missions. It is neither as easy (manage transversal, pop the frigs so you don't get webbed [waste 4+ seconds each], pop the painter ships first, etc etc etc), nor as fast (travel time, kinetic damage bonus, range, etc) as is claimed.
Simply put: If you want "easy" get a passive tanked Rattlesnake and go snooze. If you want "fast" get a CNR or Nightmare or Golem or something. But a Tengu is neither. And is it fun ..... ? Not for me, but being "fun" doesn't make it "top tier". -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Exaron
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Posted - 2009.12.22 07:28:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod Hya!
I will board a Tengu in a couple a days, but i still dont know what kind of medium missile to use.
Option 1 6 Heavies + rigor rigs
Option 2 6 heavy assault + target painter
With heavy assault, you have 27km of range but your ship have 650ms speed. Needless to say that with HAM faction fit + T2 kinetic ammo + implants, your dps is around 1000 (!!!) But, is it really effective?
First of all, no you don't get 1000 dps unless you did something horrible with the mid slot settings...
My char has offensive subsystems 5, heavy missiles 5, heavy missile spec 4, warhead upgrades 5 + all damage hardwirings and I get about 870dps which is higher than all level 5 char in eft.
I get 760 dps with heavy missile setup. While HAM's DPS looks cool and appealing, it actually doesn't change the time you do missions unless all your mission targets are close range.
You can either fit HAMs and kill rats faster but spend most of the time burning after a rat. Or you can kill a rat slower but switch to killing the next rat instantly. If you calculate, time-taken is pretty much the same.
I was a fan of HAMs, even had the hardwiring for it. Then I switched to HMs and destroyed the HAM damage hardwiring and replaced it with a HM damage hardwiring. I gets boring burning 20-30km to start shooting a rat.
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Dibblah San
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Posted - 2009.12.22 11:42:00 -
[56]
A HAM tengu looks good on paper but the lack of range is too much of an Achilles heel, HM tengu or a CNR is pretty much it for speed or a golem of you want to loot and salvage, but a CNR OR tengu with a dedicated salvager will still get you done in good time if you fly those and want to loot/salvage.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.12.22 14:32:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Liang Nuren I'd still just take a Raven, but whatever. ;-)-Liang
Gl making raven unprobable and immune to bubbles.
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod a true carebear never go to lowsec or nullsec. specialy with a 2b-losing-skills ship =p
Why do you think op is "true carebear"? Many ppl do missions to make isk for pvp.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:30:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Gl making raven unprobable and immune to bubbles.
I don't mission in 0.0, but I mission in lowsec in T2 fit battleships regularly. I don't need unprobable and immune to bubbles. It really helps not to mission in lowsec entry systems.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Duries Kain
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Posted - 2009.12.22 16:34:00 -
[59]
IMHO an unprobable bubble immune ship isn't suited for missions because you used like 70% of its capacity for being unprobable etc.
CNR / Golems are the way to go.
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Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2009.12.22 18:08:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Duries Kain IMHO an unprobable bubble immune ship isn't suited for missions because you used like 70% of its capacity for being unprobable etc.
2x eccm are 70% of tengus capabilities? Lol
Originally by: Liang Nuren It really helps not to mission in lowsec entry systems.
It really helps your isk/h to mission in systems with at least 4x l4 agents for corp with good lp shop. And pirates WILL try to probe you in these systems.
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