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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:49:00 -
[1]
Hi
I was wondering what ship I should get and how to fit it, if I would wand to run level 3 missions or level 4 in lowsec?
Prime criteria: If found and attacked, I want to be able to get away. Yes I want to run. Because I don't see me missioning in a ship that is badly fit and proper fittings cost so damn much.
If I afk, I might get killed, thats ok. But as long as I pay attention I want to survive. At least in the expensive mission boat. It's kindof ok to die in the industrial hauling the crud to the market, I guess, although it seems far easier to make that thing 'hard to stop' than a mission boat. (?)
With my mission ship+fit it would be relatively cheap to pay 500 Million - 1 Billion isk for a chance to get out.
and yes, I just want to get punished if I dont pay attention or make mistakes. Otherwise the 'risk'='my ship' isnt worth the 'reward'='a little thrill'.
It does not seem to be as simepl as fitting Warp Core Stabilizers since targeting range is something that I guess only non-combat ships don't need. Great. I dont give a ***** about the industrial. Pirates are supposed to attack those!
Thanks.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:38:00 -
[2]
Pro tip, make sure you aren't found in the first place. Look up how to make your ship immune to probing.
Warp core stabilizers won't help you at all thanks to the lovely ships known as heavy interdictors.
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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2009.12.19 16:14:00 -
[3]
Well if whoever finds me actually brings a heavy interdictor, yeah. Those wont help.
Unprobable was something about sensorstrength being ... larger then sig radius or somthing along those lines, no?
hm... Interesting approach actually.
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Will Strafe
Caldari Warmongers
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:36:00 -
[4]
Won't they still be able to probe your mission or the deadspace gate down? In that case it's not worth it I guess.
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Boink'urr
Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Will Strafe Won't they still be able to probe your mission or the deadspace gate down? In that case it's not worth it I guess.
No but they can probe your drones if you use those. Can someone kind of explain the null probing option? What would you need for that?
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adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:04:00 -
[6]
t3 with higher sensor than sig, not using drones, and blockade runner. only danger is own mistakes and kickout stations really. -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
Lady Aja
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.19 19:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: adriaans t3 with higher sensor than sig, not using drones, and blockade runner. only danger is own mistakes and kickout stations really.
prepared low sec mission runner will have a insta undock all setup...
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Liang Nuren
No Salvation War.Pigs.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 19:42:00 -
[8]
Suggestions: - Don't mission in the "borderlands" between lowsec and highsec - A unprobable droneless T3 would be ideal, but is expensive. It is still vulnerable on gates.
Final conclusion: I'd just run with a T2 fit battleship and take the hit when I got probed out. That or an Ishtar.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Jenksen
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Posted - 2009.12.19 20:47:00 -
[9]
I've missioned in low-sec quite a bit, and yeah, I've been popped a few times, but it does add spice. And I'm told you get more profit from missions there, but idk if the increased isk is worth the danger from the economic perspective. Get good at warping your pod using the selected item window.
But Warp Core Stabs are totally useful. I've escaped because of them several times--not every pirate (at all) brings a heavy dictor. If you fit a sensor booster with a script, you can nearly compensate for one T2 warp core stab.
You can also consider intertial stabs to align faster, or try staying aligned at 65% speed to near-insta-warp if you're really nervous.
The other trick is to keep an eye on your directional scan looking for nearby probes (check settings and test). There is probably a 2 or 3-minute window between the time the probes are within 5 AU (750 mil km) of your location and when they have a 100% lock. TBH, I'm too easily distracted for watching directional to work well for me, but it's theoretically very useful.
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Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.20 04:58:00 -
[10]
how exaktly this unprobability works? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2009.12.20 05:25:00 -
[11]
^ Agree with Liang.
You can pick up a few different BS for below insurance payot these days. Especially Raven, available in Jita for below 1mil of insurance payout. So you only risk few mil of T2 fittings per run. Just don't use rigs.
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Contralto
GCHQ
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Posted - 2009.12.20 11:26:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Contralto on 20/12/2009 11:29:37
Originally by: Siddy how exactly this unprobability works?
Add racial ECCM to mids, sensor backup array in low and use HG Halo's.
A Skirmish warfare link (Evasive maneuvers) BC, CS or Loki will greatly help to lower sig as well.
This will raise your sensor strength and lower your Sig radius.
Works best with low sig ships such as Minmatar cruisers and below or other racial frigs.
Optimal choice is a Loki. it doesn't need the backup array.
If you work in gangs, fit remote ECCM in mid on every ship, it is much more effective than local ECCM, 125 vs 96. it is also non racial.
I have an unprobeable interdiction nullifier/covops loki salvager/looter, 40km tractors 700m3 cargo
Also a warfare link covops/interdiction nullifier Loki with 4 links active, This application is the most usefull as the loki can park at a safe and activate its links while being invisible to even the highest skilled/equipped prober. Other T3 can be made unprobeable but sacrifices tank to fit the ECCM and Backup array.
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Akuma Tsukai
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.20 12:12:00 -
[13]
Also instead of Halo u can use FW implants i believe but those are race specifics so ship choicewill be limited. ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me. |
Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.20 12:27:00 -
[14]
yes but HOW does this work...
whats the mathematick behind this?
whats the treshold how much sensor strenght or signature radius you must get? Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Adehlea
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Posted - 2009.12.20 12:36:00 -
[15]
To be unprobable, you need: [Sig Radius]/[Sensor Strength] < 1.08
So, your SR can be a little bit higher than your SS, but not by a huge amount.
The above does assume the person hunting you:
- has perfect skills - is in a ship that gets scanning bonuses and is rigged for scanning bonuses - is using Sisters launcher - has +scan strength implants
If you start assuming that some of these aren't true, you can afford to let your SR go a bit higher. Depends how much you are willing to gamble!
Currently my alt is in my probing tengu, with :
Caldari Electronic Systems V, giving +50% scan strength Astrometric Rangefinding IV, giving +40% scan strength Sisters Launcher, +5% scan strength The ship has a Medium Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I rig, giving another 10% scan strength.
The best she can do, is 44% on my combat tengu in unprobable mode (146 SS, 150 SR), and that's with knowing exactly where the ship is, so I can place the combat probes perfectly.
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Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.20 21:57:00 -
[16]
spank you very much, we shuld abuse this before CCP neff it :D
oh btw... The old scanning system was more fun than this new, the old system was more uncertain, and took player skill as well as character skill.
This new system is a last nail in low sec coffin.
good triangulator will get you under 10 minutes time. Im old agent scanner and griefer, but when i came back to eve from army and did little missions, i was surprised how easily and fast i got scanned and pawned in result :D
Now i see why low sec (hedaleolfarber for example) is so barren now. I guess i need to move to wormhole griefing and go make angel missions in fountain after we kick PL from there.
Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.12.21 00:51:00 -
[17]
Aiming for a battleship that can mission might be bit much, but a smaller hull should be quite workable.
Passive tanking drakes and the likes ... need not apply since they need to use slots for sensor boosting, plus they want to use the slots for passive tanking, plus the shield extenders raise sig radius.
T3 active tanks have enough mids to run lvl 4's. Can also load a cov ops cloak so can approach/leave system/mission gates while cloaked. Being smaller, they can kill frigates easier than a battleship also. Probably better with auto cannon/blasters/pulse lasers than longer range to clean up frigates without using drones. Then again I would load for range myself. 2 ships can always remove any pesky interceptor npc.
T2 heavy assaults can tank plus run the mids. Many of these could run the lvl 4's - drawback of not being able to warp while cloaked.
Choice between runing 2 of the above ships vs a battleship + support craft to mkae battleship hard t scan some of the time - 2 of the above will mission easier and more effectively imo.
Command ships while can probably squeeze the sensor strength, again 2 of the above probably more effective as the hull sizes much smaller. Only when a much larger fleet will a command ship be more useful and given the command ship abilities of T3's, may be better with some T3 command ships with much less sig radius. Some T2 frigates may be fine also, but too much glass hammer with some. Same problem with T1 smaller hulls.
If run 2 ships of the above, interceptors never a problem - just have them agro on one ship, shoot from range from 2nd - dont need drones at all.
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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2009.12.21 02:39:00 -
[18]
So, to get the two options straight:
1) use a ship that is cheap and replaceable and practice pod warping
2) use a ship that is unprobable
*nods* I do tend to the unprobable... but honestly: with all those slots asigned to pvp fitting... wouldn't that be 'more effective' in the long run? Or are there just TOO many gangs out there?
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Lalei Celatis
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Posted - 2009.12.21 03:07:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Lalei Celatis on 21/12/2009 03:07:10 flying an 'unprobable' ship will drastically affect your missioning ability. as advised by others it makes an excellent prober/salvager/looter etc but as combat ships go yer better in a dedicated pve warship. If isk risk is a big deal look at the bcs, otherwise any battleship works just as well as it does in high-sec.
I use a combination of tactics mentioned........the directional scanner set to about 1au and 360 degrees identifies short-range probes homing in and you dont even have to worry about that if you know the locals well enough.
examine players entering/leaving/residing in the system, watch for neg standings and bounties and assign personal -10 standings to known pirates so you can identif them from local at a glance. In my experience this is a major time-saver, before long if hunting an area regularly you will also recognise 'blues' (i.e. players who are not an immediate agressive threat, tower huggers or station residents)
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Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.12.21 07:14:00 -
[20]
so to sum up ...
If your already known to the local pirates and not bothered by them you can run missions in a pve ship.
If your experienced at pvp then you could run a pvp fit for missions - except when they warp in on you they wont do it at fair odds with the best you can hope for being 3:1 odds against - generally worse. ie a pvp fit with odds like that wont help you.
... otherwise you run in a pve ship and get slaughtered. Run in a unprobable droneless ship and you can run the lvl 4's a bit slower but you wont need to watch the local space like a hawk plus the directional scanner as even if they see your about, they wont be able to warp to you so you can laugh at their feeble piratical attempts. Sure its a bit slower than a pve fit, but you can still run good dps and be unprobable. As suggested, run 2 ships and you wont have probelms with interceptor npc's ether. You can always run the unprobable while the local get used to your missioning - save a lot of pve ships in the process. If run warp capable ships while cloaked, can have one ship sitting watching while the 2nd docks for mission and hands in and gets the next. This the only time your really risked except an unlucky warp to land you within range of another object that uncloaks you.
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Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.12.21 10:40:00 -
[21]
some T3 subs to remember:
Legion - dissolution sequencer (increases your sensor str /electronics sub lvl)
Tengu - dissolution sequencer
Proteus - dissolution sequencer
Loki - dissolution sequencer - amplification node (reduces sig radius /defense sub lvl)
Fit those and 3 eccm's on all but loki will give you an unprobable ship if dont use drones. Loki with reduced sig sub can do it with 2 eccm's. When/if the new imps arrive then that can reduce the requirements further. If fit covert ops cloak then can get around 279-301 dps (no drones used, 5x highs, 2-3 weap upgrades in lows) each which isn't too bad if you have 2 of them missioning with a tank between 350-900 dps each (plenty for lvl 4's). Drop the covert ops cloak which will make passing gates more dangerous and you can increase the dps about 50% to 400+ dps each ship. Bit more dps vs chance to lose ship, I would run the covert ops cloak myself.
If run a pod/free frigate to pull missions then you never need to actually risk the ships - warp the pod/frigate to location with cloaked T3's, then warp fleet to mission while never uncloaking and cancel warp for the pod/frigate so mission space never detected. Someone shoots your pod/frigate, you have another in couple of minutes for no cost. Want safe low sec/null sec/war missioning - can anyone describe safer when the locals are hostile? Its not super fast dps but its very safe and not bad considering runing safe missions in hostile territory or while at war.
Yeah I know, if your at war and know the local pirates then its quite safe to mission with a pve ship. The problem is not everyone knows the local pirates, nor can call on their help when they are a war target in a pve ship. The above gives an alternative for the mission runner in low/null sec or while a war target.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:03:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Adehlea
EDIT: These posts explain the maths behind it:
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1119841 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1005459
Actually you forgot the one with the full scan strength formula: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1019121
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Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:39:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lalei Celatis Edited by: Lalei Celatis on 21/12/2009 03:07:10 flying an 'unprobable' ship will drastically affect your missioning ability. as advised by others it makes an excellent prober/salvager/looter etc but as combat ships go yer better in a dedicated pve warship. If isk risk is a big deal look at the bcs, otherwise any battleship works just as well as it does in high-sec.
I use a combination of tactics mentioned........the directional scanner set to about 1au and 360 degrees identifies short-range probes homing in and you dont even have to worry about that if you know the locals well enough.
examine players entering/leaving/residing in the system, watch for neg standings and bounties and assign personal -10 standings to known pirates so you can identif them from local at a glance. In my experience this is a major time-saver, before long if hunting an area regularly you will also recognise 'blues' (i.e. players who are not an immediate agressive threat, tower huggers or station residents)
Peoples scanning with alts and ****zle, i dont want engade my brains when i am in agent, it hurts my brain allredy to even do a mission. I just want the couzy warm feel of F.U. griefers and do my missions semi afk without worry in the world while i am at it. Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Satyri Hermides
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:52:00 -
[24]
Tengu + Dissolution sub + 2 ECCM II's + 1 Backup array + Insta-Undock bookmark
Run level 4's with 8-10k lp per mission and laugh at the pirates trying to scan you down.
Tengu unprobeable does over 600 racial damage, over 500 regular dps and can omni tank 350-450 depending on isk spent on mods.
Make a ton more than high sec mission runners.
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Siddy
Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Satyri Hermides Tengu + Dissolution sub + 2 ECCM II's + 1 Backup array + Insta-Undock bookmark
Run level 4's with 8-10k lp per mission and laugh at the pirates trying to scan you down.
Tengu unprobeable does over 600 racial damage, over 500 regular dps and can omni tank 350-450 depending on isk spent on mods.
Make a ton more than high sec mission runners.
this, its the agent *****s last, best chanse!
And with the AB propulsion module you can speed tank some of the nastiest damage too... Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Lord Xanthoh
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:35:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Vherr Arkhar Hi
I was wondering what ship I should get and how to fit it, if I would wand to run level 3 missions or level 4 in lowsec?
Prime criteria: If found and attacked, I want to be able to get away. Yes I want to run. Because I don't see me missioning in a ship that is badly fit and proper fittings cost so damn much.
If I afk, I might get killed, thats ok. But as long as I pay attention I want to survive. At least in the expensive mission boat. It's kindof ok to die in the industrial hauling the crud to the market, I guess, although it seems far easier to make that thing 'hard to stop' than a mission boat. (?)
With my mission ship+fit it would be relatively cheap to pay 500 Million - 1 Billion isk for a chance to get out.
and yes, I just want to get punished if I dont pay attention or make mistakes. Otherwise the 'risk'='my ship' isnt worth the 'reward'='a little thrill'.
It does not seem to be as simepl as fitting Warp Core Stabilizers since targeting range is something that I guess only non-combat ships don't need. Great. I dont give a ***** about the industrial. Pirates are supposed to attack those!
Thanks.
Common understanding of how to use the directional scanner and safespots should allow you to spot probers and warp-out on-time, in any ship, up to BS and moar.
Good that no too many know how to master that.
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Irdia Freelancer
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:32:00 -
[27]
I've seen the post about runing ~600 dps tengu yet I still fail to see how it runs blockades. Its vulnerable to being scrammed exiting from the agents dock from what has been described, plus when you change systems with no description of how to get around this problem. Hostile system and all I see is a dead tengu coming out of the station or when it changes systems. The cov ops cloak while reducing damage will allow one to almost 100% avoid this problem entirely even in hostile systems.
I see the same problem with the battleship but since its slower to align, slower to warp the problem is much worse so an even more dead ship. Plus it needs to watch the local/scan like a hawk and doesn't have the luxery of being unscanable. Again no explaination of how to pass a gate camp nor how to mission when the system is hostile. If I as a fairly new player can see this, it should be obvious to the more experienced. When one starts to mission in low/null sec you will be a target even in systems with NRDS as even there they regularly have the locals hunt down easy targets and being neutral is asking to be shot. You can't join an alliance without contacts, and you can't just start to magically mission without risk without being able to run blockades.
How to make isk while the system is hostile? No explanation given as I presume they dock up and hide under a blanket or something. Lets face it a new player to low/null sec the system will be hostile. All your suggestions are to me is advice on how to loose a ship not how to mission in low/null sec. A spare char with no imps and no ship value to pull the missions avoids the danger spot while undocking - can still be podded but a dock with medical can be used and a low skilled char to pull the missions so even if podded it costs nothing and brings no risk to to the expensive ships. How expensive? The T3 fits I used were only about 500-600 mil so more isk, more dps/tank. If fit imps can push the dps about 10% higher than the 280-300+ dps and its using no drones. The 600 dps I suspect is using drones in its figures and still has no explanation of how it runs a blockaded gate. True, they too can pull the alt mission with the low skill char so not make ones self vulnerable when exiting the dock. As can the battleship, but change system and you have a dead T3/battleship.
Make a bookmark out from the dock so get near to insta warp? It will make it harder to be locked up but any organised blockade will have you locked and scrammed even before you can do this unless the local blockade is run by a bunch of noobs. The same exiting any system gate. A cov ops cloak will allow one to start to allign then cloak in a fraction of a sec (but not when undock as too close to dock) - if use hot-keys it can be as fast as you can hit the keys so easily < 0.1 secs which is near impossible to lock up plus be scrammed leaving the chance uncloak by jumping within range of an object to uncloak you.
I'm new, so if I'm wrong about the T3 and battleships being vulnerable to undocking and switching systems, please enlighten me with how to undock from the agent, plus changing systems works in either the battleship or the 600 dps Tengu with hostiles about. Till the locals change your status to blue, every local should be considered potentially hostile. The undock is safer, yet you still can't insta undock/warp which can have you scrammed plus unable to re-dock till the timer counts down leaving you to survive till you can re-dock while a system gate has no such dock. 1000 dps tank on your ship and you can still be very dead very quickly in such situations.
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Martimus28
Diplomatic Disruption Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:39:00 -
[28]
I suggest missioning in safer low security space, where you don't see many pirates. Aring and Antem have many L4 agents (there is even a L5 agent a couple jumps away, but can't remember the system off hand.) I have been running missions in that area for nearly a year, and have yet to get popped.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.21 20:49:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Martimus28 I suggest missioning in safer low security space, where you don't see many pirates. Aring and Antem have many L4 agents (there is even a L5 agent a couple jumps away, but can't remember the system off hand.) I have been running missions in that area for nearly a year, and have yet to get popped.
QFT, but I would never mention a good lowsec missions spot, because there might be gankers (like me) reading. I've missioned in lowsec for a year and not had anything more than the very occasional gank attempt (which I neatly sidestep with a scout).
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Khaitethe Meramad
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Posted - 2009.12.22 17:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Liang Nuren Suggestions: - Don't mission in the "borderlands" between lowsec and highsec - A unprobable droneless T3 would be ideal, but is expensive. It is still vulnerable on gates.
Final conclusion: I'd just run with a T2 fit battleship and take the hit when I got probed out. That or an Ishtar.
-Liang
I disagree with ur 1st opinion. Some of the mission solar is on the boarder of 2 region. In that way, u can avoid going into lowsec and get the lower highsec bounty(0.5 0.6)
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