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Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.22 20:27:00 -
[1]
Heres a list of all the ship balance items I believe should be included in an all encompasing boost patch. If i've missed anything or have links to specific threads dicussing the issue, please mention them.
Tech 2 short-range/high-damage Ammo Cruise Missiles Rockets Tier 1 Battlecruisers (battlecruiser tiers should be abolished, all BC's to become tier 2) Tempest/Maelstrom Gallente MK II Assault Frigates Destroyers Tech 3 (Useless subsystems/Legion) Active Tanking (active tanking bonuses and active tanking in general is fail outside of pve) CN Hoobkill Vindicator Raptor Capitals MK II (Assuming the recent iteration doesn't make it to 1.1.)
I know so many people who would resub in a heart beat if half of that stuff was looked at! ____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
Xing Fey
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:48:00 -
[2]
Agreed. But add standard missiles(fitting) and HAM(Precision a tiddle, not so much for drake but mainly Sac) to the missile bit...
Though I guess sac does go a bit into he active tanking bit...
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General Meridus
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.23 02:04:00 -
[3]
Probably outside the scope of this thread but: Boosters
Rocktets, rockets, rockets. A simple fix that affects many ships. (Hey that rhymes)
Should make a pass over all of the tech 2 ammo. (Of course that would probably end up with a nerf of scorch.)
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Roffle Roffle
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Posted - 2009.12.23 02:40:00 -
[4]
I really think it would be better to just remove t2 ammo altogether. Also you didn't mention T1 cruisers and loads of other stuff. |
Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: General Meridus
Should make a pass over all of the tech 2 ammo. (Of course that would probably end up with a nerf of scorch.)
Yeah, scorch does seem out of line, but I don't think it would be worth the controversy since the projectile changes. ____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
M Blanc
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Posted - 2009.12.23 22:34:00 -
[6]
Deimos/hybrids in general?
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The Djego
Minmatar Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 23:27:00 -
[7]
In general I agree this things need fixing.
You want to much at once. It is not possible to "fix" all this things in one patch, without running into pointless solutions by the lack of testing time or dev attention to really put some things on sissi to get the real picture what would work and what would not/would work to good or would be useful in general game play.
---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Frug
Omega Wing
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Posted - 2009.12.24 00:01:00 -
[8]
Quote: Shield transporters (reduce CPU by 40-50%)
are you joking?
Quote: Cruise Missiles
are you joking?
Quote: Rockets
yes
Quote: Tier 1 Battlecruisers
maybe
Quote: Tempest/Maelstrom
you'll never be satisfied/give it a rest/getting very old, pattern. Credibility is completely shot on these stupid minmatar whines.
Quote: Gallente MK II
are you joking
wow i can't even go through the rest. Just rewrite eve. Maybe ccp will listen to you and make a new rewritten server.
- - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Whisper/PrismX 4 emperor |
William Caldon
Caldari Golden Cross Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.12.24 01:34:00 -
[9]
Gallente MK 2 might not be the worst thing on earth, its close to it. It basically rewrites the Gallente to be even fuller of lols than before. It will either really gimp them, or make them substandard at best.
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Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:34:00 -
[10]
Originally by: William Caldon Gallente MK 2 might not be the worst thing on earth, its close to it. It basically rewrites the Gallente to be even fuller of lols than before. It will either really gimp them, or make them substandard at best.
Some of the numbers in his proposal are crazy (personally, I think it's bargaining, start high etc etc), but some of the ideas provide a good starting point.
____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
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Natalia Kovac
Minmatar Phoenix Tribe Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.01.08 16:30:00 -
[11]
Boost Vagabonds!
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Bellum Eternus
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.01.08 17:58:00 -
[12]
"Domination"? Really Pattern? LOL. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Tier 5 Battleships
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.01.08 20:58:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 08/01/2010 20:59:19 I actually cannot see anything on that list that doesn't make perfect sense - although with the projectile changes the Tempest/Mael is debatable.
/signed.
Quote:
Quote:Shield transporters (reduce CPU by 40-50%)
are you joking?
Quote: Cruise Missiles
are you joking?
Are you stupid? _________________________________
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Areo Hotah
Paxton Industries Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.08 21:22:00 -
[14]
May I add the Pilgrim? The only recon without a range bonus.
Blackops could also use a small boost, mainly in fitting freedom: some grid and CPU won't hurt them.
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Letifer Deus
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 21:52:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Letifer Deus on 08/01/2010 21:54:31 I lul'd super hard at the 7.5% dmg bonus and increased bandwidth on the tempest. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "Brought to you by the letter ARRR!" |
Good Sir
Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS
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Posted - 2010.01.09 00:24:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: General Meridus
Should make a pass over all of the tech 2 ammo. (Of course that would probably end up with a nerf of scorch.)
Yeah, scorch does seem out of line, but I don't think it would be worth the controversy since the projectile changes.
Something I think that would greatly remedy this issue is either a damage increase or range (to be close to conflag) increase of void, to make blasters a more clear short range weapon winner, as pulse lasers are and always have been a mid range weapon. As far as barrage/hail goes, I do not have nearly as extensive experience using those ammo types, and those are a separate issue all together as auto cannons seem to bud in on the whole mid range department.
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SolarKnight
Gallente ORIGIN SYSTEMS Shadows of Light
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Posted - 2010.01.09 06:32:00 -
[17]
Edited by: SolarKnight on 09/01/2010 06:32:30 Whats the problem with teirs?
The only real problem with the battlecruisers is that the drake should have had a missile bonus instead of the resists and the brutix and myrm are the wrong way around really, since tier 2s were meant to be gank boats by ccp's original design.
Ah, forgot the lolprophecy, my bad. Yeah that needs some love. The Light in the Darkness
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Gabriel Karade
Gallente Nulli-Secundus
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Posted - 2010.01.09 10:41:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 09/01/2010 10:44:31
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Originally by: William Caldon Gallente MK 2 might not be the worst thing on earth, its close to it. It basically rewrites the Gallente to be even fuller of lols than before. It will either really gimp them, or make them substandard at best.
Some of the numbers in his proposal are crazy (personally, I think it's bargaining, start high etc etc), but some of the ideas provide a good starting point.
I think 'crazy' is a little harsh , Balancing is an iterative process; you have to pick a starting point and tweak upwards or downwards based upon the results of testing, and then repeat. I outlined, against the context of previous changes and current bonuses, why I think those numbers would be a reasonable starting point for that process.
I'm not sure where William is coming from on the 'substandard' charge as nothing has been lost, so I can only assume he is referring to his objection to AB bonuses (Which you would not forced to use, as tracking bonuses where 'built-in' to the weapons, so nothing lost there) and changing Roden from missile orientated to railgun orientated...
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Video - 'War-Machine' |
Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2010.01.09 17:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Bellum Eternus "Domination"? Really Pattern? LOL.
You've got to admit that it wouldn't make a bad patch name one day...
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 08/01/2010 20:59:19 I actually cannot see anything on that list that doesn't make perfect sense - although with the projectile changes the Tempest/Mael is debatable.
/signed.
Quote:
Quote:Shield transporters (reduce CPU by 40-50%)
are you joking?
Quote: Cruise Missiles
are you joking?
Are you stupid?
Don't worry, he's just my personal troll.
Originally by: Areo Hotah May I add the Pilgrim? The only recon without a range bonus.
Blackops could also use a small boost, mainly in fitting freedom: some grid and CPU won't hurt them.
Yeah, maybe, make a thread explaining the points and i'll link it to the op.
Originally by: Letifer Deus Edited by: Letifer Deus on 08/01/2010 21:54:31 I lul'd super hard at the 7.5% dmg bonus and increased bandwidth on the tempest.
Until you notice the removal of the missile hardpoints.
It'll have more dps/alpha than the Maelstrom, but not much more, where as the Maelstrom gets fall off.
Originally by: SolarKnight Edited by: SolarKnight on 09/01/2010 06:32:30 Whats the problem with teirs?
The only real problem with the battlecruisers is that the drake should have had a missile bonus instead of the resists and the brutix and myrm are the wrong way around really, since tier 2s were meant to be gank boats by ccp's original design.
Ah, forgot the lolprophecy, my bad. Yeah that needs some love.
Oh and the Cyclone.
Originally by: Gabriel Karade
Balancing is an iterative process; you have to pick a starting point and tweak upwards or downwards based upon the results of testing, and then repeat. I outlined, against the context of previous changes and current bonuses, why I think those numbers would be a reasonable starting point for that process.
Kinda like bargaining? :P ____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.10 04:52:00 -
[20]
Black Ops, resist/bonus buff and/or cov ops cloak.
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Kuronaga
The Drekla Consortium
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Posted - 2010.01.10 12:10:00 -
[21]
Boost Sansha ships.
Needs either more tank, gank, or speed.
But it definitly needs one of these if it's going to stay viable compared to the other pirate ships.
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SirDynty
Gallente Boiians
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Posted - 2010.01.11 12:19:00 -
[22]
how the hell can you quote that "Gallente MK2" fail |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.01.12 00:23:00 -
[23]
Originally by: SolarKnight Edited by: SolarKnight on 09/01/2010 06:32:30 Whats the problem with teirs?
Tier system = stupid, because you're paying out more ISK for something that has a different job, not better. Why exactly does a Rokh cost more than a Raven when they do completely different things? Or the Thorax costing more than the Vexor - they're arguably similar in overall performance but they work differently.
One costing more than the other makes no sense because it's not an upgrade. It's an alternative.
A notable exception is, as you mentioned, battlecruisers. And the simple solution there is to buff the tier 1s up a bit. The Ferox in particular is easy - just give it an extra mid. Done. Also kindly don't touch my shield resist bonus. I find having a built-in invul field on my ship very handy, especially as Caldari are notoriously pressed for mids. _________________________________
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Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2010.01.21 03:08:00 -
[24]
Op updated with:
Pilgrim ECCM Black-op's (they need more survivability, a reason to be on the field) ____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
De Guantanamo
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Posted - 2010.01.21 03:36:00 -
[25]
Whats wrong with ECCM?
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Lijhal
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Posted - 2010.01.21 08:15:00 -
[26]
Originally by: De Guantanamo Whats wrong with ECCM?
I think he means the graphical representation of ECCM in the game which is quite annoying...
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Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2010.01.21 22:44:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Pattern Clarc
Cruise Missiles Pilgrim ECCM Tempest/Maelstrom Vindicator Capitals MK II (Assuming the recent iteration doesn't make it to 1.1.)
None of these need a buff. I'm actually kind of shocked you put vindicator and minmatar BS on the list after the vindi buff and the HUGE improvement to projectiles; it was perhaps too much and once people start crosstraining we're going to see a lot more minmatar BS around.
Quote: Boost Sansha ships. Needs either more tank, gank, or speed. But it definitly needs one of these if it's going to stay viable compared to the other pirate ships.
This, this, this. Sansha (except the nightmare, but even then only with regard to pve) are now quite distinctly the weakest faction ships, and the phantasm post ehp-nerf is barely even worth using over a harbinger or hurricane, and is far and away worse than the zealot.
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Pattern Clarc
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2010.01.25 11:51:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Lijhal
Originally by: De Guantanamo Whats wrong with ECCM?
I think he means the graphical representation of ECCM in the game which is quite annoying...
ECCM is pretty **** to be fair. Even the dev's aknoledged this at fanfest during the workshops.
Originally by: Mahke
None of these need a buff. I'm actually kind of shocked you put vindicator and minmatar BS on the list after the vindi buff and the HUGE improvement to projectiles; it was perhaps too much and once people start crosstraining we're going to see a lot more minmatar BS around.
Understand that this list was done before the recent change to the vindicator.
____ *New* - Tempest/Maelstrom |
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