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Kent Reeves
Amarr Violent Force Productions
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:10:00 -
[1]
The little brother to the Harbinger is long overdue for a face lift, CCP. Harbinger out-performs it in every way, shape and form (cept as bait). The other tier 1 BCs all fill a role that the tier 2s can't fill so why not the Proph? Here's a couple of suggestions:
-add a low or mid -switch to 7 missile hardpoints -some drone bay additions? perhaps even a bonus -do SOMETHING with it
ok, let the witch hunt begin *dies* |
Eli Porter
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Posted - 2009.12.22 21:34:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Kent Reeves The little brother to the Harbinger is long overdue for a face lift, CCP. Harbinger out-performs it in every way, shape and form (cept as bait). The other tier 1 BCs all fill a role that the tier 2s can't fill so why not the Proph? Here's a couple of suggestions:
-add a low or mid -switch to 7 missile hardpoints -some drone bay additions? perhaps even a bonus -do SOMETHING with it
ok, let the witch hunt begin *dies*
Proph was already buffed with the rig patch, making it 3 times cheaper to trimark, and making it possibly the most worthy ship to triple medium trimark. Easily BS level EHP, with Cruiser level DPS if you fit Light Neutrons.
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Kent Reeves
Amarr Violent Force Productions
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Posted - 2009.12.22 22:49:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Eli Porter Proph was already buffed with the rig patch, making it 3 times cheaper to trimark, and making it possibly the most worthy ship to triple medium trimark. Easily BS level EHP, with Cruiser level DPS if you fit Light Neutrons.
You make a good point. Here's my counter. If I wanted BS EHP (who doesn't) I'd use a BS but I was trying to point out that the other tier 1s can fill a specific function opposite of tier 2. Gallente are drones/close range turrets, Minmatar are shield/armor tanks and Caldari are close(or long) range turrets/missiles. Prophecy is just a dumbed down Harbinger at this point despite it's large EHP.
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Eli Porter
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:21:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Kent Reeves
Originally by: Eli Porter Proph was already buffed with the rig patch, making it 3 times cheaper to trimark, and making it possibly the most worthy ship to triple medium trimark. Easily BS level EHP, with Cruiser level DPS if you fit Light Neutrons.
You make a good point. Here's my counter. If I wanted BS EHP (who doesn't) I'd use a BS but I was trying to point out that the other tier 1s can fill a specific function opposite of tier 2. Gallente are drones/close range turrets, Minmatar are shield/armor tanks and Caldari are close(or long) range turrets/missiles. Prophecy is just a dumbed down Harbinger at this point despite it's large EHP.
You can have a BS, or you can have something that looks less menacing and costs 3 times less. Plus I haven't run the math, but having 120k EHP and 300 DPS for about 30-40 mil is nothing to scoff at.
[Prophecy, Brick] Damage Control II Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive I Warp Disruptor II Stasis Webifier II
Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Medium Nosferatu II
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Hobgoblin II x5
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Arthamel
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.12.22 23:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Arthamel on 22/12/2009 23:50:39 Nice fit you got there, but I don't see reason for mar, unless you don't want to pay armor rep bills and chill in safespot to slowly rep your 20k armor back up. You can replace it with 800mm rolled plate, or add magstab to increase dps by 40-50.
Edit: This fit would cost around 70mil according to latest market data, not that cheap then :p
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:00:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Kent Reeves The little brother to the Harbinger is long overdue for a face lift, CCP. Harbinger out-performs it in every way, shape and form (cept as bait). The other tier 1 BCs all fill a role that the tier 2s can't fill so why not the Proph? Here's a couple of suggestions:
-add a low or mid -switch to 7 missile hardpoints -some drone bay additions? perhaps even a bonus -do SOMETHING with it
ok, let the witch hunt begin *dies*
First things first, the other BCs have a different role, but they are still flat inferior to their Tier 2 counterparts. Even my beloved Cyclone. The right answer is (IMO) to eliminate the tier system on anything sub battleship. And maybe on Battleships too.
As for the Prophecy... I am extremely fond of the idea of a HAM Prophecy with 50m^3 drone bay, 5% HAM ROF and 5% Resist bonuses.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:03:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Xavier Maroquin on 23/12/2009 00:05:40
Quote: The other tier 1 BCs all fill a role that the tier 2s can't
How so? I need this one explained....
Quote: -switch to 7 missile hardpoints
Yeah..... Thats gonna happen.... Why not change the Drake to all turret hardpoints??
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Eli Porter
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:07:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Arthamel Edited by: Arthamel on 22/12/2009 23:50:39 Nice fit you got there, but I don't see reason for mar, unless you don't want to pay armor rep bills and chill in safespot to slowly rep your 20k armor back up. You can replace it with 800mm rolled plate, or add magstab to increase dps by 40-50.
Edit: This fit would cost around 70mil according to latest market data, not that cheap then :p
Like I said, I didn't do the math, I just went by what EFT told me when it came to prices. You can use 2 Crystallines to reduce the price and the EHP won't drop too sharply. The MAR acts as a pseudo-Plate, counting on the fact that by the time someone kills you, the rep gives you enough Armor HP to compensate for the lack of a plate, and if the fight lasts long enough, surpass a 1600mm in EHP's worth. Not having to waste money on repairs is a bonus.
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ElCholo
Minmatar Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:24:00 -
[9]
My Favorite Prophecy Setup
Highs: 6x 425mm AC II 1x Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator
Meds: 10mn MWD I Warp Scram II Web II
Lows: DC II EANM II 1600mm Rolled Tungsten 3x Gyrostab II
Rigs: 2x Medium Trimark
Drones:
5x Hobgoblin II
DPS Around 450 - 460 Tank Around 73k EHP
Nothing to laugh at there. Decent DPS, awesome tank, smaller sig radius than a BS.
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Kent Reeves
Amarr Violent Force Productions
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:35:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin How so? I need this one explained....
3rd post from the top.
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin Yeah..... Thats gonna happen.... Why not change the Drake to all turret hardpoints??
Because they already have the Ferox. :) |
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Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2009.12.23 00:47:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Xavier Maroquin on 23/12/2009 00:50:42
Originally by: Kent Reeves
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin How so? I need this one explained....
3rd post from the top.
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin Yeah..... Thats gonna happen.... Why not change the Drake to all turret hardpoints??
Because they already have the Ferox. :)
I meant that as sarcasm, they aren't going to totally change a ship like that, it just screws with the system too much.
*Guy with drake re logs to his safe spot, to find all his weapons offline, deep in lowsec, and a nice note saying "Oh yeahz.... drake is now a hybrid platformm"
And how does post 3 explain it?
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Keitaro Baka
Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project
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Posted - 2009.12.23 08:26:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Xavier Maroquin [..]
I meant that as sarcasm, they aren't going to totally change a ship like that, it just screws with the system too much.
*Guy with drake re logs to his safe spot, to find all his weapons offline, deep in lowsec, and a nice note saying "Oh yeahz.... drake is now a hybrid platformm"
[..]
They can, they have, they will if they want to do it again. Remember when they made the Eos utter crap? How about those faction ships that had half their hardpoints removed? Stealthbombers with cruise launchers?
I would like to see a missile boat in the prophecy, kinda of like the harb-zealot relationship with the proph-sacri, a nice stepping stone. It would also make a nicer ship for cross training if amarr had a couple more actual alternates to laser, iso everyone just slapping ACs/Blasters on amarr ships without weapon bonusses.
6x launcher 4x turret 30-50 cpu extra, -200 grid or so bake it for 30 minutes until golden brown, enjoy
All the above is prolly crap
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:09:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Grut on 23/12/2009 09:09:14 The maller and proph are in the same boat.
Massive tanks... pointlessly low dps.
Unless your using them as bait, which is about as obvious as you can get the tank lets them be heavy tackle and nothing else. You'll be last on the list so whats the point of a massive tank? you'll either have won/lost by the time the other gang get round to you, might aswell rig it for pure gank and atleast do some damage.
I figure theres 2 obvious roles they could fill, sac wannabe & mini abaddon. If the proph got sac wannabe it would probably do a better job then the sac which leaves with mini abaddon. The maller could get mini sac.
-5% rof, gives it cap issues -1 mid for the cap booster and a tiny bit more tanky/ganky then the harb. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Varg Tepes
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.23 09:51:00 -
[14]
Prophecy DOES have a role:
Highs: 4x Salvager 3x Trteactor beams
Meds: 10mn MWD I 2x Cap Recharge II
Lows: 6x Cargo Expanders II
Rigs: 2x Salvage Tackle 1x Cargo opt
It's a frekkin lovely salvager, thats what it is
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TimMc
Gallente Extradition
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Varg Tepes Prophecy DOES have a role:
Highs: 4x Salvager 3x Trteactor beams
Meds: 10mn MWD I 2x Cap Recharge II
Lows: 6x Cargo Expanders II
Rigs: 2x Salvage Tackle 1x Cargo opt
It's a frekkin lovely salvager, thats what it is
Hurricane is a superior salvaging ship.
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Kent Reeves
Amarr Violent Force Productions
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:13:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Keitaro Baka I would like to see a missile boat in the prophecy, kinda of like the harb-zealot relationship with the proph-sacri, a nice stepping stone. It would also make a nicer ship for cross training if amarr had a couple more actual alternates to laser
This is another thing. There are 3/4 very serious amarr ships that are missile oriented and CCP hasn't given amarr pilots any reason to train missile skills with a T1 variant. Maller/Prophecy would make great missile platforms imho. |
Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2009.12.23 11:48:00 -
[17]
Why not just do what it is supposed to do and fit a warfare link with that massive buffer?
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baltec1
Antares Shipyards Circle-Of-Two
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Posted - 2009.12.23 13:21:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Omara Otawan Why not just do what it is supposed to do and fit a warfare link with that massive buffer?
Wheres the fun in that?
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc
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Posted - 2009.12.23 13:54:00 -
[19]
I like how people take about the slowest of the BC's, then make it slower with plates and trimarks and THEN add light neutrons which have less range than I can pee.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
arbiter reformed
Minmatar Reverse Psychology. Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.12.23 14:27:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Kent Reeves The little brother to the Harbinger is long overdue for a face lift, CCP. Harbinger out-performs it in every way, shape and form (cept as bait). The other tier 1 BCs all fill a role that the tier 2s can't fill so why not the Proph? Here's a couple of suggestions:
-add a low or mid -switch to 7 missile hardpoints -some drone bay additions? perhaps even a bonus -do SOMETHING with it
ok, let the witch hunt begin *dies*
First things first, the other BCs have a different role, but they are still flat inferior to their Tier 2 counterparts. Even my beloved Cyclone. The right answer is (IMO) to eliminate the tier system on anything sub battleship. And maybe on Battleships too.
As for the Prophecy... I am extremely fond of the idea of a HAM Prophecy with 50m^3 drone bay, 5% HAM ROF and 5% Resist bonuses.
-Liang
thing is the cyclone and ferox, brutix etc do enough different (be it different tank or wepon system etc) ham proph would be awesome although youre idea seems slightly op lol :) Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste.Applebabe |
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Erim Solfara
Amarr House of Solfara
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Posted - 2009.12.23 15:19:00 -
[21]
Why not buff the grid so it can fit a set of heavy beams, maybe an optimal bonus like the apoc? (I don't remember what the harb has, cap use and damage/rof?)
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Noun Verber
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.24 03:53:00 -
[22]
Originally by: TimMc
Originally by: Varg Tepes Prophecy DOES have a role:
Highs: 4x Salvager 3x Trteactor beams
Meds: 10mn MWD I 2x Cap Recharge II
Lows: 6x Cargo Expanders II
Rigs: 2x Salvage Tackle 1x Cargo opt
It's a frekkin lovely salvager, thats what it is
Hurricane is a superior salvaging ship.
Or a Harbinger for the same skills - again Tier 2 outperforms Tier 1
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Diomidis
Amarr Mythos Corp RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.24 05:41:00 -
[23]
All other races have a major variation between their Tier 1 and 2 BCs... You get hybrid vs. drone bonuses for Gallente with no huge DPS differences, active shield vs. passive shield vs. armor tank versatility for the Minmatar, and hybrid vs. missile bonuses for caldari. All-in-all, all other races get two quite different beasts to complete their BC class.
The Proph has nothing to show over the Harbi...and yes, amarr vessels in general are not the fastest, nor can fit scram/web as easily as others, so blasters are for the lulz one them - especially small ones. And the Harbi can still out-dps the Prophecy with blasters, as it has more turrets to begin with, so...(no, do not nerf the harbi)...
Yes, the Proph do needs some love. I don't know if it should be an optimal range approach/base cap boost as it was for the Apoc, or converting it to a Tech I khanid ship - not very realistic RP wise, but sounds fun. Just like there is no other Missile BC than the drake, there could be the Myrm approch too - make it a fat arbitrator with a nice drone bay, maybe 50m3 bonused bandwidth and same slot layout with the current model: drone + turret DPS would make an interesting setup.
As off the dual 1600mm setups - those are fun EFT-wise, but a Cane can do that too while maintaining med guns and better [email protected] faster and gankier and with similar tank is not the relationship Minmatar ships should have over Amarr IMHO Join the Biggest Greek Corp! www.Mythos-eve.com - Join Mythos Channel in game! |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.24 05:51:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Diomidis As off the dual 1600mm setups - those are fun EFT-wise, but a Cane can do that too while maintaining med guns and better [email protected] faster and gankier and with similar tank is not the relationship Minmatar ships should have over Amarr IMHO
Yeah, you're comparing Tier 1 and Tier 2 BC's ......... but I still support a Prophecy boost. That thing is damn near useless.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
Hellfury Resurrected
Incura HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.24 06:08:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Eli Porter Proph was already buffed with the rig patch, making it 3 times cheaper to trimark, and making it possibly the most worthy ship to triple medium trimark. Easily BS level EHP, with Cruiser level DPS if you fit Light Neutrons.
Yes, lets fit max tank on a ship that's never going to get primaried. That's a useful role -------------------------------------------
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Marcus Delloro
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Posted - 2009.12.24 06:37:00 -
[26]
I was thinking that it could be used as a poor man's gang link ship due to them being primaried last.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.12.24 08:27:00 -
[27]
Drop the cap use bonus for a damage bonus Abaddon style.
And no to changing them into missile ships. Irather have CCP add a new line of T1 ships build by the Khanid empire. --------
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Norris Packard
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.24 09:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Abrazzar Drop the cap use bonus for a damage bonus Abaddon style.
And no to changing them into missile ships. Irather have CCP add a new line of T1 ships build by the Khanid empire.
The precedent is there for Amarr to have missile or drone boats at different levels of t1 ship classes, look at the Inquisitor or the Arbitrator. Giving the Maller and Prophecy some missile hard points even without changing anything else (maybe CPU increase) would make them interesting wildcards in a fight. If they did change them to have the ability to fit missiles would like to see one of the battleships get some more missile hard points too, variety is always nice on the battlefield.
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RabbitofDoom
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:26:00 -
[29]
Missiles are not bad idea. A lot of ammar peoples cross train to caldari anyway for nightmare. It could make a nice alternative to drake. Considering hvy missile range it would fit nicely in rr bs setup.
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Kent Reeves
Amarr Violent Force Productions
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Posted - 2009.12.24 15:56:00 -
[30]
The fact remains that until Amarr pilots hit T2 cruisers they have no reason to train any sort of missile skills. Purifier, Curse, Sacrilege and Damnation are all sweet ships and it would be nice to have a couple of T1 types that would motivate players to invest time into missile skills even if they're not cross-training for Caldari. |
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