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Sha'Aryn
Minmatar Northern Star Inter-Galactic Industries PROject Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:36:00 -
[1]
Out of 28 mil skillpoints, I have 14.5 mil invested in the sciences. I have the fighting skills of a 4-month-old newbie and my only sources of income are from mining and grants from a generous CEO.
I'm staring at Sleeper Tech, Talocan, Yan Jung and Takmahl next in my training queue, but have never made enough money to buy those skills.
I hate begging for money. I don't want to spend the next 2 months doing nothing but mining. I want to be independently wealthy. How do I turn my research skills to PROFIT?
Invention? Meh... it's letting me down. It's more expensive than the bp's are worth. The raw materials for T2 production are also more expensive than my inventions are worth. What's going wrong here?
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Dodi Xi
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:46:00 -
[2]
your invention calculations are wrong. thats all
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Sha'Aryn
Minmatar Northern Star Inter-Galactic Industries PROject Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:51:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 27/12/2009 10:52:54 Your assessment of the problem is over-simplified. I purchased the T2 materials for a Hyena for 25 mil isk and couldn't sell that ship for more than 21 mil. Not calculated, but actual cost.
I sold a blueprint for a Hyena for 1.5 mil - no one would take it after a month in contracts til I dropped the price for a loss.
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Pesky LaRue
Minmatar Brotherhood Of Fallen Angels
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:57:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Sha'Aryn Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 27/12/2009 10:52:54 Your assessment of the problem is over-simplified. I purchased the T2 materials for a Hyena for 25 mil isk and couldn't sell that ship for more than 21 mil. Not calculated, but actual cost.
I sold a blueprint for a Hyena for 1.5 mil - no one would take it after a month in contracts til I dropped the price for a loss.
Your choice of item might be the problem. Start lower than ships. The returns are greater in % terms, and with some items (ammo, drones, guns) it's often about volume. I can sell dozens of 'basic' T2 items in the time it takes me to churn out a few ships that have lousy margins.
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Ctica
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:04:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Sha'Aryn
I'm staring at Sleeper Tech, Talocan, Yan Jung and Takmahl next in my training queue, but have never made enough money to buy those skills.
I hate begging for money. I don't want to spend the next 2 months doing nothing but mining. I want to be independently wealthy. How do I turn my research skills to PROFIT?
a) the cosmos constellation BPCs and thier required skills are completely useless for turning a profit. There is no demand for 80% the modules, they use resources that are better used elsewhere so basically forget about it.
b) Make money out of a research character? Sell your datacores, by now you should know which ones are in demand, go to eve agents dot come and get the best to research for ya.
c) There is some money to be made in the sale of blueprint copies.
d) Don't discount manifacturing as a way of making isk, just yet.
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Rin Taleda
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:12:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Sha'Aryn Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 27/12/2009 10:52:54 Your assessment of the problem is over-simplified. I purchased the T2 materials for a Hyena for 25 mil isk and couldn't sell that ship for more than 21 mil. Not calculated, but actual cost.
I sold a blueprint for a Hyena for 1.5 mil - no one would take it after a month in contracts til I dropped the price for a loss.
What happened between the time you did the calculations to determine that Hyena's were profitable to invent and when you tried to sell the bp or finished product? I see two possibilities:
1) "I did't do the calculations before I ran my invention jobs". At this point, the problem should be obvious. Either learn to do your research or stop inventing. Many items are not profitable.
2) "I did the calculations and it showed a profit of X. I ran the invention jobs before the expansion, and now the prices are all different". If this is the case, just chalk it up to bad luck or not being aware of the production changes planned for the expansion and then move on.
Since you said you had the bpc on the market for a month unsold, then I'm guessing #1.
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Sha'Aryn
Minmatar Northern Star Inter-Galactic Industries PROject Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:19:00 -
[7]
Perhaps that's why I'm here now... I got the skills without the proper mentorship to tip me off to the strategies. Yes. You are correct. I didn't run the calculations because of "player ignorance." "player" has learned some things in the past half hour. Thanks all Keep it coming.
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Tau Cabalander
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:47:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 27/12/2009 11:52:42
Originally by: Dodi Xi your invention calculations are wrong. thats all
I agree. I made 120 million profit on T2 yesterday, and I wasn't even trying hard. I have level 2 skills.
What to make was the toughest part, and required a lot of number crunching; I suppose I could have used the many spreadsheets available, but I made my own.
I bought all my materials from sell orders, and I didn't manufacture any T2 parts from sub-components, so I could have probably made even more.
There was more research done with a spreadsheet than with a lab.
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Mikelangelo
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.27 16:45:00 -
[9]
You are right in that it is tough to make money using ONLY researching.
Lately, it seems the blueprint market has dried up, at least for some T2 cruisers.
You have to be versatile however.
Assuming you have access to a station with labs, get some ammo blueprints, research the T2 versions, and make those to sell. Ammo sells, regardless of race. Yes crystals count as ammo.
You have to look at it this way.
Not everybody is going to have the cash to pay 15-18 mil for a T2 cruiser bpc, and then build it, then sell it at a profit.
Not everybody has the cash to actually BUY a T2 cruiser, but they may have the cash for some T2 ammo, or missiles, or a frigate, or some modules. You have to be versatile. I learned that the hard way as well.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2009.12.27 18:20:00 -
[10]
Edited by: RAW23 on 27/12/2009 18:21:16 Try inventing and building the following:
Ballistics Control II Damage Control II Cargohold II Gyrostabilzer II
These all had great margins and volumes 6-8 weeks ago. Not sure how the Dominion changes have altered things though.
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Kyle Cataclysm
Blue.
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Posted - 2009.12.27 19:58:00 -
[11]
Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 27/12/2009 18:21:16 Try inventing and building the following:
Ballistics Control II Damage Control II Cargohold II Gyrostabilzer II
These all had great margins and volumes 6-8 weeks ago. Not sure how the Dominion changes have altered things though.
Fortunately nobody else has jumped on the bandwagon. Thats why margins on these items are really high and competition is (almost) non-existant.
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Phunket
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:08:00 -
[12]
I would have to concur with Raw. A buddy of my have been making a killing out of Cargohold Expanders II. Personally i would not be expecting making any iskies out of Tech II ships unless i owned a researched BPO.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2009.12.27 21:50:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Kyle Cataclysm
Originally by: RAW23 Edited by: RAW23 on 27/12/2009 18:21:16 Try inventing and building the following:
Ballistics Control II Damage Control II Cargohold II Gyrostabilzer II
These all had great margins and volumes 6-8 weeks ago. Not sure how the Dominion changes have altered things though.
Fortunately nobody else has jumped on the bandwagon. Thats why margins on these items are really high and competition is (almost) non-existant.
I'm not sure its a lack of competition so much as the sheer size of these markets. I was making 1000 units of each a week, if I recall correctly, and the market absorbed this additional supply without any noticeable effect on prices. And there are quite a few other mods in a similar position (armor rep II for instance - look for mods that aren't racially limited).
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.27 22:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Kyle Cataclysm Fortunately nobody else has jumped on the bandwagon. Thats why margins on these items are really high and competition is (almost) non-existant.
I'm not sure its a lack of competition so much as the sheer size of these markets. I was making 1000 units of each a week,
Well I can say that in Jita over the past 2 weeks the price of cargohold II's has droped from about 670k each to about 606k each. At that time I was inventing and building over 1200 a day! I have since switched to other items and I am waiting for the market to hopefully return to it's previous price levels. Of course now my production capactity is about twice that so I can kill any T2 module market in a matter of a week or two.
Profits in T2 invention and production do scale very nice, but with 9 characters, it's easy to over saturate any market, and I'm just one out of who knows how many people in the business.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2009.12.27 23:21:00 -
[15]
Edited by: RAW23 on 27/12/2009 23:23:52
Originally by: Breaker77
Originally by: RAW23
Originally by: Kyle Cataclysm Fortunately nobody else has jumped on the bandwagon. Thats why margins on these items are really high and competition is (almost) non-existant.
I'm not sure its a lack of competition so much as the sheer size of these markets. I was making 1000 units of each a week,
Well I can say that in Jita over the past 2 weeks the price of cargohold II's has droped from about 670k each to about 606k each. At that time I was inventing and building over 1200 a day! I have since switched to other items and I am waiting for the market to hopefully return to it's previous price levels. Of course now my production capactity is about twice that so I can kill any T2 module market in a matter of a week or two.
Profits in T2 invention and production do scale very nice, but with 9 characters, it's easy to over saturate any market, and I'm just one out of who knows how many people in the business.
God! You must have wrists of steel! Total production of 4k units per week bought on a good dose of RSI in about 10 days for me.
Sir, I salute you and your Tech 3 wrist!
Edit - Btw, why don't you make a wider range of items and not tank the markets you're in? It didn't seem much easier for me to make 4k of one item than 1k each of four.
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.28 02:17:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Breaker77 on 28/12/2009 02:17:32
Originally by: RAW23
God! You must have wrists of steel! Total production of 4k units per week bought on a good dose of RSI in about 10 days for me.
Sir, I salute you and your Tech 3 wrist!
I would also like to thank Logitech for their super heavy duty mice and keyboards.
Quote: Edit - Btw, why don't you make a wider range of items and not tank the markets you're in? It didn't seem much easier for me to make 4k of one item than 1k each of four.
I do have a select number of items I produce. It helps to keep me from completely flooding the market. However the logistical nightmare of keeping track of what components are needed for which item along with making sure I have adequate inventory onhand is increased with each different item I produce.
At least I'm not crazy enough to build everything myself like I did when I first started in T2.
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Hamatitio
Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.28 04:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Sha'Aryn Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 27/12/2009 10:52:54 Hyena
Found your problem!
Originally by: Forest Gump
And that's all I got to say 'bout that.
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Sha'Aryn
Minmatar Northern Star Inter-Galactic Industries PROject Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 07:56:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Hamatitio
Originally by: Sha'Aryn Edited by: Sha''Aryn on 27/12/2009 10:52:54 Hyena
Found your problem!
Yep. I know that now. I didn't do the spreadsheets, but I did look at the market and found that there were almost none in the market in my region, so I gave it a shot. It's sometimes tough to judge the difference between a hot seller and something that just sucks and nobody sells because nobody buys. lol
Anyhow, taking advice and started working on barrage ammo. Also considering T2 shield mods, since my corp is mostly Caldari.
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Thalysia
Ordo Ars Scientia Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.12.28 09:45:00 -
[19]
I have been financially frustrated as well. Invention jobs failing, bad market, T2 BPO-owners who are saturating the market and forth.
I did however find out that it can really pay of making the T2 components yourself. And of course research is very important. I do invent ships but for now only produce the T2 frigs as there is almost no margin on T2 Cruisers. Find some Excel sheets, or make them yourself. And indeed Ammo is always needed. In my case it is too bad Crystals take some amount of time to produce, even within a Ammunition Array. 40 Scorch S takes a few days, not to mention Medium and Large. I did not yet train anything else then Amarr so that makes me somewhat limited in the T2 ammo I can invent/produce, but that will change.
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