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Cannon Jennings
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Posted - 2009.12.28 20:25:00 -
[1]
I am looking for some advice, I need to grind Gallente standing. I wil be running the missions with my Gallente alt who has lvl5 BS. What would be quicker to run the missions in, a Faction BS (something like a Machariel) or a Marauder (a Kronos)?
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MiltGyver
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Posted - 2009.12.28 20:39:00 -
[2]
Last time I compared a faction with a navy with a marauder the faction ship came out looking pretty pathetic. I fly Caldari ships and the CNR has more DPS (due to ROF bonus) but the Golem has bigger volleys. EFT is your friend.
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Kalnov
Gallente Problematique Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.28 21:21:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Cannon Jennings I am looking for some advice, I need to grind Gallente standing. I wil be running the missions with my Gallente alt who has lvl5 BS. What would be quicker to run the missions in, a Faction BS (something like a Machariel) or a Marauder (a Kronos)?
Open up EFT. Compare a Dominix with anything else. Dominix will be blatantly better or very close, even to most marauders. Make sure to have at least one Sentry Damage Augmenter (preferably t2) and to use garde's in EFT. That said, I do not know the answer to your question.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.28 21:26:00 -
[4]
Last I heard, if it's standing you're after, and in particular faction standing, you're better off mass-grinding L3 couriers than doing combat missions (and L4 combat missions in particular). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Qui Shon
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Posted - 2009.12.29 07:12:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tippia Last I heard, if it's standing you're after, and in particular faction standing, you're better off mass-grinding L3 couriers than doing combat missions (and L4 combat missions in particular).
Now, that would depend entirely on his proficiency at L4's. Last time I did the L3 courier bonanza, it wasn't actually all that fast for faction standing, despite using quite a few agents at once.
If you're setup properly to blitz L4's, I'm certain you can achieve a far better faction improvement rate. This means multi-agent station, and either several different ships setup for different mission groups, or a Golem / CNR. The way I did it, I was using two accounts, and a two agent station, and I'd get maybe 3 EM/TH missions and 1 KIN/TH mish. So I'd do the three EM ones with lasers and get new missions until I had 2 or more suitable for KIN/TH boat. Decline most missions more then 1j away, or wait until you have two or more missions going to the same location.
Granted with just one account your options for combining and grouping missions are a lot worse. If scanning down mission ships wasn't such a joke, blitzing groups of missions in one of the extraordinary lowsec hubs would seem quite attractive. But CCP, in their infinite wisdom, decided to make that.... impractical, with this rubbish near-insta scan/pin system we have.
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Vherr Arkhar
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Posted - 2009.12.29 08:10:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Cannon Jennings I am looking for some advice, I need to grind Gallente standing. I wil be running the missions with my Gallente alt who has lvl5 BS. What would be quicker to run the missions in, a Faction BS (something like a Machariel) or a Marauder (a Kronos)?
Well, Kronos is locked into kin dmg mostly. So I'd say if the Choices are Kronos or Mach, I'd go with the Machariel (ACII,pith-booster,3gyro,3te,1DCII,ambits) and have at least some choice while operating at 95% falloffdamage at 50-60km (thats over a 100km falloff using barrage!)
Go in, shoot what you need to shoot and go out... blitzing. The mach is good at it and since ACs with three tracking enhancers really dont have trouble tracking even tacklerfrigs... well you get the point.
[Machariel, *cries*] Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Domination Gyrostabilizer Damage Control II Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer Domination Tracking Enhancer
Domination 100MN Afterburner Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Caldari Navy Ballistic Deflection Field
800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, Barrage L [empty high slot]
Large Projectile Ambit Extension II Large Projectile Ambit Extension I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
There. You dont have much tank! So be carefull with the triggers. Pick your ammo, your DPS is most of your tank. Shoot tacklers first unless they are triggers. Tackler => missiontarget => GTHO
But: If you can get a golem and have the torpskills - use that.
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Mustata Cornel
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Posted - 2009.12.29 19:13:00 -
[7]
Don't listen to Vherr Arkhar , i have been using a machariel for gallente miss and is a great ship much better than hyperion , maybe not as good a a kronos against serpentis but close and much easier to train for .
And about the golem @!#@ it you may get huge dmg in a few miss like gone berserk but what are you gonna do with it in other miss with a lot of frigs , and there are many of those miss .You only have blockade and assault serpentis with many bs that start at long range and in other like wc and serpentis extravaganza they start in short range so is np .
And your second enemy is angels and machariel is the best ship for them .Same thing about rogue drones and mercs .
Vherr Arkhar speak about 100km falloff with t2 ammo but clearly he has never used such a ship : look at target range , 100 km falloff and you can only target at 75 , you will need a signal amplifier for target anyway against serpentis because of dampers , and t2 ammo no mac will use alot ammo and you will get broke .
A good setup since you have gallente bs 5 : - 7 autocanons , tractor - pithum c-type medium sb , 2x inv , 1 thermal and 1 kinetic - 1 signal amplifier , 3 gyro , 3 tracking enhancer - 1 thermal rig ( pref t2 ) 2 capacitor recharge rigs
Perma run setup and requires : max capacitor skills , and shield compensation at 4 , or cap implants.
Gallente miss and you will only need to change hardeners in : rogue slave trader (sansha) if you want to kill everything in part 2 and not blitz ( no scramblers though) and cargo delivery if you are not afraid of heavy neuting .
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.29 20:17:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mustata Cornel And about the golem @!#@ it you may get huge dmg in a few miss like gone berserk but what are you gonna do with it in other miss with a lot of frigs , and there are many of those miss .You only have blockade and assault serpentis with many bs that start at long range and in other like wc and serpentis extravaganza they start in short range so is np .
Comments: - Yes, there are missions better suited to cruise than to torps. They're not as common as you make them out - in Caldari space I'd estimate torps are better 90% of the time. In Gallente space (Getting mostly Serpentis / Sansha), I'd estimate torps are better about half the time. - If you're targeting frigs in any battleship you're probably doing it wrong.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
BeanBagKing
Ch3mic4l Warfare
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Posted - 2009.12.29 20:19:00 -
[9]
Edited by: BeanBagKing on 29/12/2009 20:22:07 I'm looking at the same problem being a Gallente pilot. I'm looking to cross train to Caldari though and started looking at the Golem, then someone pointed out the Rattlesnake. Not the same ships your looking at, but it still got me wondering, faction or marauder?
Check out the Rattlesnake. All the drone bay and drone damage bonus of a Domi, but with the added bonus of using missiles instead of guns. I don't know if your character has the skills to fly it yet, but if your already have the skillpoints/isk for a marauder then you should have the ISK to slap on some faction mods and a week or two of training.
I can't say I've tried it yet, EFT is no substitute for real world experiance, but from the looks of it I should have only a slightly weaker tank on the Rattlesnake than my 2x LAR, 3x ANP, 4x hardener domi (so still a good tank) and be dealing 3 times the damage, factor in how often I miss with guns because of low skills and being able to do different damage types with missiles and DPS will go up a lot.
Long story short, look into the Rattlesnake
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thisisnotmikaldrey
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Posted - 2009.12.29 20:29:00 -
[10]
nightmare
but remember has the new special storyline missions :)
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Cannon Jennings
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Posted - 2009.12.30 18:57:00 -
[11]
Many thanks for all the advice, I think I would like to run a faction ship just because I have never flown one before. I will look a the Rattlesnake, Machariel and the Nightmare (which I love the look of).
EFT is my friend :) My alt I intend on using for this mission is a carrier alt so they have lvl5 in all drone skills, all tank (both shield and armour including comps) skills, all capacitor skills. But no gunnery skills so I am training up all the gunnery support skills at the moment until I decide which direction to go (Hybrids, Projectile or Lazor). I would prefer to train gunnery skills so I can also put this char in a Dread if required (of course once I get the siege skills) although I don't mind training a new race for the dread.
Anyone had any experience of running Gallente missions and have any advice or think I am doing something really wrong?
Thanks again for all the help.
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V0lk0
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Posted - 2009.12.31 12:27:00 -
[12]
[Rattlesnake, omni] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Pithum A-Type Heat Dissipation Amplifier Pithum A-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field
Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Rage Torpedo [empty high slot] Drone Link Augmentor I
Large Core Defence Field Purger I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Core Defence Field Purger I
Garde II x5
Does about 980dps, and tanks about 900dps against all resists(and 180k buffer). Im sure someone with a bit more experience could make the fit even better. And even if you downgrade to all tech 2 the tank should still be plenty good for missions.
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.31 15:57:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mustata Cornel And about the golem @!#@ it you may get huge dmg in a few miss like gone berserk but what are you gonna do with it in other miss with a lot of frigs , and there are many of those miss .You only have blockade and assault serpentis with many bs that start at long range and in other like wc and serpentis extravaganza they start in short range so is np .
Comments: - Yes, there are missions better suited to cruise than to torps. They're not as common as you make them out - in Caldari space I'd estimate torps are better 90% of the time. In Gallente space (Getting mostly Serpentis / Sansha), I'd estimate torps are better about half the time. - If you're targeting frigs in any battleship you're probably doing it wrong.
-Liang
not true liang. On turret battleships insta popping frigs from far far away before they even start approaching you is TOP efficiency. Because that way you usually removes all the webs and a lot of ewar from missions that can be annoying. For example with my navy apoc all frigs dies around 50 km with a 4 MPulse radio salvo on each. Far faster and more efficient than drones, specially when saves me the webbed time. Same thing with my vargur on my minmatar character. THe less webbed i am the better because vargur depends on getting relatively close to enemy very fast.
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Fenren
Minmatar Bure Astro Photography
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Posted - 2009.12.31 16:53:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mustata Cornel And about the golem @!#@ it you may get huge dmg in a few miss like gone berserk but what are you gonna do with it in other miss with a lot of frigs , and there are many of those miss .You only have blockade and assault serpentis with many bs that start at long range and in other like wc and serpentis extravaganza they start in short range so is np .
Comments: - Yes, there are missions better suited to cruise than to torps. They're not as common as you make them out - in Caldari space I'd estimate torps are better 90% of the time. In Gallente space (Getting mostly Serpentis / Sansha), I'd estimate torps are better about half the time. - If you're targeting frigs in any battleship you're probably doing it wrong.
-Liang
not true liang. On turret battleships insta popping frigs from far far away before they even start approaching you is TOP efficiency. Because that way you usually removes all the webs and a lot of ewar from missions that can be annoying. For example with my navy apoc all frigs dies around 50 km with a 4 MPulse radio salvo on each. Far faster and more efficient than drones, specially when saves me the webbed time. Same thing with my vargur on my minmatar character. THe less webbed i am the better because vargur depends on getting relatively close to enemy very fast.
ones you calculate locktime and so on, and the fact that those salvoes could have been for a BS, i think Liang is right as usual
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2009.12.31 17:02:00 -
[15]
Locktime is largely irrelevant, while you're waiting for that frigate to lock you should have other larger targets already locked. Generally I pop cruisers and frigs at range and once they get close the drones take over and I start to lay dps on larger targets
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2009.12.31 20:46:00 -
[16]
as for shooting at frigs with guns it really depends on the mission.
in gallente space I would fly the kronos. the 40km tractors are good for scooping objective loot, and can net some income on the sie. the mach should make for a pretty good mission ship. the vindi is about the same as the kronos.
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Princess Ghost
Dark Light Inc
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Posted - 2010.01.03 14:22:00 -
[17]
Certain Ships do outperform others depending on which mission you are currently on.
The Marauders do benefit from T2 resis great cargobay and the tractor bonus Faction BS do tend to have more HP be it armour or shields.
Having flown Raven, Rattlesnake (pre domi change), Navy Raven, Golem, Nightmare, Kronos, Nighthawk and Drake in missions I do say Golem is currently most effective.
Try a few out The marauders are lighter on the wallet on fitings T2 are more than adequate for lvl 4's. Shadow Company |
Lordbeefy
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Posted - 2010.01.03 16:33:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Lordbeefy on 03/01/2010 16:34:36 I have flown a number of ships in a mission running role, including the Golem, CNR, Rattler and most recently the Tengu. To be totally honest, if you are grinding for standings, running combat missions for bounties and standings and NOT hanging around to salvage, then tengu wins by a mile.
I run one with either a medium dedspace booster, or a pair of smalls. Running the medium allows the mounting of a TP and it blitzez everything. Elite frigs in a volley and a half at worst. Basic cruisers single volley etc etc.
If you are a salvage/loot monkey, then the golem is best. Depends on yer taste ultimately.
Meant to say my alt does similar things with Dominix/Proteus, and again for blitzing thru missions the proteus with blasters/medium drones is the best at running combat missions fast for standings.
Regards and happy hunting.
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Kaian Voskhod
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Posted - 2010.01.03 22:37:00 -
[19]
hi
is it a HAM tengu or a Heavies Tengu? (or both = youre changing lauchers depending of needed range)
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oolk
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Posted - 2010.01.04 14:07:00 -
[20]
CNR vs Golem in Angels Extravaganza scenario.
Takes the same time for both.
Golem uses half the ammo the CNR does.
Marauder wins.
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Ando Raed
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Posted - 2010.01.04 15:25:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod hi
is it a HAM tengu or a Heavies Tengu? (or both = youre changing lauchers depending of needed range)
HAM Tengu is nice with a web and an AB so you have a very quick ship so can put out some brutal damage with rage terror hams. With T2 hams and 3 caldari BCUs I think it is around 700dps on anything cruiser size+ and with a web you can keep them down to the explosion velocity.
Heavies are more suited to slower ships that can't realistically run down ships, the Tengu can.
Tengu is really nice with expensive fittings, with stock T2 fittings I'd stick to a battleship.
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Nocturnal Avenger
x13
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Posted - 2010.01.04 17:44:00 -
[22]
Originally by: oolk CNR vs Golem in Angels Extravaganza scenario.
Takes the same time for both.
Golem uses half the ammo the CNR does.
Marauder wins.
And golem loots/salvages just about everything while shooting and wins even more.
- Carebear Pirate - |
Moriancumer
Amarr Hammer Of Light Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2010.01.04 18:39:00 -
[23]
Paladin w/ max skills does 770 DPS w/ 2 heat sinks using beams
928 DPS w/ 5 medium drones
And, unlike the Rattlesnake ( which is a nice ship ) it does instant damage, no waiting for torp flight time
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ando Raed
HAM Tengu is nice with a web and an AB so you have a very quick ship so can put out some brutal damage with rage terror hams. With T2 hams and 3 caldari BCUs I think it is around 700dps on anything cruiser size+ and with a web you can keep them down to the explosion velocity.
The problem I see with an AB is that by chasing the rats, you're encouraging them to move at maximum velocity as they try to get to their desired orbit velocity. Velocity really cuts into missile damage. Given that a web is fairly short ranged, it might be preferable to use a TP instead?
Originally by: Moriancumer Paladin w/ max skills does 770 DPS w/ 2 heat sinks using beams
928 DPS w/ 5 medium drones
And, unlike the Rattlesnake ( which is a nice ship ) it does instant damage, no waiting for torp flight time
Medium drones and "instant damage" is an oxymoron. Personally, with a Golem, medium drones are just about dead weight. A torp Golem kills cruisers and larger so fast that drone DPS isn't significant. In fact, I often find myself waiting for my lights to finish off the last of the frigates after I've disintegrated the bigger stuff.
----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
Sprilk
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:27:00 -
[25]
40km tractors and teh slots to tractor and salvage while you kill...
its fairly hands down due to this fact.
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Edmund Kostarz
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.05 09:22:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Fenren
Originally by: Seishi Maru
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Mustata Cornel And about the golem @!#@ it you may get huge dmg in a few miss like gone berserk but what are you gonna do with it in other miss with a lot of frigs , and there are many of those miss .You only have blockade and assault serpentis with many bs that start at long range and in other like wc and serpentis extravaganza they start in short range so is np .
Comments: - Yes, there are missions better suited to cruise than to torps. They're not as common as you make them out - in Caldari space I'd estimate torps are better 90% of the time. In Gallente space (Getting mostly Serpentis / Sansha), I'd estimate torps are better about half the time. - If you're targeting frigs in any battleship you're probably doing it wrong.
-Liang
not true liang. On turret battleships insta popping frigs from far far away before they even start approaching you is TOP efficiency. Because that way you usually removes all the webs and a lot of ewar from missions that can be annoying. For example with my navy apoc all frigs dies around 50 km with a 4 MPulse radio salvo on each. Far faster and more efficient than drones, specially when saves me the webbed time. Same thing with my vargur on my minmatar character. THe less webbed i am the better because vargur depends on getting relatively close to enemy very fast.
ones you calculate locktime and so on, and the fact that those salvoes could have been for a BS, i think Liang is right as usual
Multitasking level 4 is what it is all about baby just lock 4 bships rest small stuf while you locking frigs pop a bship ,then you will not loose time you will have a nice rat conveyor belts with your guns at the end. Only makes sense in turret bships and in begining of mission after you get the ones you know go ewar on you its drone time.
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steejans nix
Amarr 0beron Construct Rat Pack Renegades
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Posted - 2010.01.05 09:34:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Sprilk 40km tractors and teh slots to tractor and salvage while you kill...
its fairly hands down due to this fact.
Not if you got a second account that salvages.
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Kaylee Juuna
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Posted - 2010.01.06 00:55:00 -
[28]
Are you trying to get faction standings on more than one toon, or just that alt?
If you're trying to get Cannon's standings up, you can't. You can't raise faction standing without being assigned, doing, and completing storyline missions yourself.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.06 04:40:00 -
[29]
Originally by: steejans nix Nope, insta popping frigs save's one hell of a lot of time and in the end it is mission completion time that is important. Waiting for the drones to pop the frigs is a huge waste of time when you can one shot them at 20-100km's
I don't tend to have to wait all that terribly long for my drones to clear off the frigs - if I have to wait at all. The only frigs I ever lock are those that have me warp scrambled and possibly to reassign drone aggro from a BS if it got stuck (happens, but not often at all).
Basically: You're doing it wrong if you're noticing a problem with drones killing frigs.
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
steejans nix
Amarr 0beron Construct Rat Pack Renegades
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Posted - 2010.01.06 08:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
I don't tend to have to wait all that terribly long for my drones to clear off the frigs - if I have to wait at all. The only frigs I ever lock are those that have me warp scrambled and possibly to reassign drone aggro from a BS if it got stuck (happens, but not often at all).
Basically: You're doing it wrong if you're noticing a problem with drones killing frigs.
-Liang
If you not have to wait for you're drones to kill off the frigs you must be very slow in killing the bs's then, seriously in several missions if I used my drones to kill all the frigates and not used my guns to 1 shot them I would be a long time waiting for them once I cleared out the other stuff with my guns.
All you do is keep killing a couple of bs's while you are targeting a load of frigs then in one volley 4 go down, you are ****ing in the wind if you trying to convince me you are quicker using purely drones esp when the frigs are out at over 20 km's away.
Basically: you are doing it wrong when you not use the fastest way of clearing a mission and just use the drones for killing frigs.
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