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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Aryth
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
338
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Posted - 2012.06.22 01:58:00 -
[661] - Quote
CPT Plahnut wrote:its ok, I collect goonswarm rage for a living... massive pofit
Man, it ain't massive profit until it's so massive CCP needs time to review it's massiveness. Just sayin |
CPT Plahnut
The Planetyrs
3
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:01:00 -
[662] - Quote
Aryth wrote:CPT Plahnut wrote:its ok, I collect goonswarm rage for a living... massive pofit Man, it ain't massive profit until it's so massive CCP needs time to review it's massiveness. Just sayin
Their apparent lack of intellect precludes them from even understanding the magnitude on the massiveness of it |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia
1548
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 02:03:00 -
[663] - Quote
is I late?
/popcorn The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
2488
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:06:00 -
[664] - Quote
RubyPorto wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:This is about as much of a game exploit as Jade doing a forever war against goons.
It's not an exploit guys. Only likely difference is our lovely forever war is getting horribly and totally nerfed :( The FW thing also got horribly and totally nerfed.
That bit I don't quite understand - ie exactly how it was possible to stop this happening again ... what was done?
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedom Epic Inferno Wardec Test, Sign up and shoot Goons for free! |
Della Monk
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
38
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:11:00 -
[665] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Ituhata Saken wrote:Dearest Market-Interested Space Tycoons,
At downtime today we made an adjustment to the average price of some items in order to curb a situation whereby the average price of an item could be manipulated in order to create a disparity between the value of an item in Isk and its value in Loyalty Point payouts. There will be additional changes in how this system works in the future. We will be monitoring for attempted manipulation of the LP market and will reverse any proceeds deemed to have been obtained through manipulative means. We are watching you. DonGÇÖt be That Guy.
By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.
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corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
467
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:13:00 -
[666] - Quote
Jade Constantine wrote:RubyPorto wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:This is about as much of a game exploit as Jade doing a forever war against goons.
It's not an exploit guys. Only likely difference is our lovely forever war is getting horribly and totally nerfed :( The FW thing also got horribly and totally nerfed. That bit I don't quite understand - ie exactly how it was possible to stop this happening again ... what was done?
Short term they reverted our price changes and probably turned the price updater off as well. Long term? I'm sure they'll think of something. |
MidnightWyvern
Clan Shadow Wolf Fatal Ascension
9
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:15:00 -
[667] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Mikelii wrote:Darius Johnson for CEO.
Never not ******* goons. I genuinely ell oh elled at this because come on, the whole thing is pretty ******* funny PLEASE stop writing lol as words. Please. It honestly hurts. A lot. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaUaJUhTZfw#t=148s An excellent example of why pod killmails are the best feature to be implemented in EVE Online since warping at zero. |
Xutech
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
183
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:28:00 -
[668] - Quote
Anyone hoping to assist CCP in fixing this game is naive and foolish.
You misunderstand how much contempt they hold you in. It's easy to see why you might not believe that yet; it makes no sense. It is illogical and insane;
But you must remember that Iceland is a genetic heterotopia (a place where nothing changes) and they intend to keep it that way.
Offering advice or comfort to them is the same as a crackhead offering to act as a lifecoach for a curbside crack dealer, improbable and laughable.
CCP will never fix these problems, and they will continue to make them forever / with you paying for them / because they are Icelanders and they want you to pay for their lifestyles.
They are smart and clever.
They have fancy furniture and they put tiny screens on little flat pieces of metal.
Their sexual partners are dazzlingly white and elf like. They eat endangered species with contempt because someone from a foreign country asked them not to.
They fixed their national debt crisis by ignoring it and refusing to pay.
They treat your favorite MMO in exactly the same way.
So, The Great Quisling who was once one of you has been sent out to fix the problem: for it can only be an exploit.
And was declared so because who amongst them would admit that it was yet another colossal internal screw up?
And in this sandbox you may very well lose your hard earned loot and even your accounts, because it does not, once again, suit them to pay, or even take responsibility for their mistakes.
So I say to you: Remember the lesson of Kugu. Helping them only earns their contempt. Standing on the CSM sets you as an enemy amongst them.
Treat them as the enemy. Let your braying, harsh laughter be the true joy you gain from this game. |
corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
467
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:30:00 -
[669] - Quote
...what the heck did I just read? |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
119
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:31:00 -
[670] - Quote
You guys need to ask yourself one question; if it did not say 'Goonswarm Federation' under the alliance name, would you still be chanting exploit?
I'll admit I am not the biggest fan of goons, but a few guys decided to play Spreadsheets-Online on total hell death mode and came out on top. It is no different than trying to figure out what item gives the best LP to ISK conversion when you are at the LP store after grinding some level 4 missions. Except on a much, much larger scale. |
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Della Monk
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
38
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:32:00 -
[671] - Quote
Apparently Iceland is home to the Fair Folk, who do not broker the words of man |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1161
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:36:00 -
[672] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:You guys need to ask yourself one question; if it did not say 'Goonswarm Federation' under the alliance name, would you still be chanting exploit?
the only people chanting exploit are the usual "ra ra goons" npc alts, everyone else is just slow-clapping and moving on a rogue goon |
Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1161
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 02:38:00 -
[673] - Quote
i move that the relatively low amount of gnashing of teeth in this thread is a ~CoNspIrAcY~ to avoid enabling us with said gnashing of teeth
your move a rogue goon |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:41:00 -
[674] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:the only people chanting exploit are the usual "ra ra goons" npc alts, everyone else is just slow-clapping and moving on
The OP used that term himself, feel free to go check. I'll wait.
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
Tenchi Sal
Dust Bunnies 514
109
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:41:00 -
[675] - Quote
i wonder if ccp will break out the old ban hammer and start playing wack-a-mole |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:42:00 -
[676] - Quote
Here, I'll make it easy for you:
gulftobay wrote:Advice: Next time you find a game exploit and boast about it run it past your crack legal team first: Aryth wrote: As weGÇÖve said, in most ways, Inferno was a bust. But a throwaway blog about an obscure part of the upcoming faction warfare revamp was much more interesting than it seemed. A small group of market and game mechanics wizards sat in a channel, put their heads together and designed a theoretical exploit to game the system. It succeeded beyond their wildest dreams..
Aryth wrote: FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards. So we went to work..
Aryth wrote:In order to cash out our illicit LP..
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
149
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:43:00 -
[677] - Quote
Um we were not read our Space Miranda rights so none of that is eligible testimony |
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
219
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:46:00 -
[678] - Quote
I have one question, which I know will never be answered: Will someone get fired over this latest screw-up? I mean, the messes that CCP has created in the past 3 months are mounting.
Is ANYONE ever held accountable?
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CPT Plahnut
The Planetyrs
3
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:48:00 -
[679] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I have one question, which I know will never be answered: Will someone get fired over this latest screw-up? I mean, the messes that CCP has created in the past 3 months are mounting.
Is ANYONE ever held accountable?
I don't know, ask about that guy who blew up about BoB being dev fed, and the insuent cover-up, and the fact that they whiteashed the whole thing.
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Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
149
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:49:00 -
[680] - Quote
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:I have one question, which I know will never be answered: Will someone get fired over this latest screw-up? I mean, the messes that CCP has created in the past 3 months are mounting.
Is ANYONE ever held accountable?
This isn't the worst thing ever to occur in EVE by a longshot so no as much as I and the Jewbal deride CCP this is nothing anyone should get fired over. |
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Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1161
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:50:00 -
[681] - Quote
gulftobay wrote:Here, I'll make it easy for you:
please continue to cherry-pick quotes to make yourself look right, it suits you a rogue goon |
Joben Andadare
Lightyears From Normal
2
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:54:00 -
[682] - Quote
What's with all the talk about people losing their jobs over this? Was it an oversight by the devs/coders in game mechanics, sure, is it worth someone losing a 'real world job' over? Not so much. |
gulftobay
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
56
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Posted - 2012.06.22 02:59:00 -
[683] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Here, I'll make it easy for you: please continue to cherry-pick quotes to make yourself look right, it suits you
Yeah, I'm not a fan of cherry-picking either.
However, the quotations were not out of context and if you like I will repost in entirity and highlight the terms exploit/bug/illicit again.
Low self-esteem?-á Bored?-á-áLonely?-á |
Marconus Orion
Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies.
119
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:06:00 -
[684] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:gulftobay wrote:Here, I'll make it easy for you: please continue to cherry-pick quotes to make yourself look right, it suits you
We are getting cherry colored suits for Incarna? Hope it does not cost a lot of Aurum. |
Exakt Kla'erlepi
Subach-Innes Engineering
5
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:08:00 -
[685] - Quote
Quote:An exploit, in video games, is the use of a bug or design flaw including glitches, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] It is often colloquially abbreviated sploit. Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.[2]
Ok, so here is the definition of Exploit in a video game. Now let's see what the Goons have said:
1. As weGÇÖve said, in most ways, Inferno was a bust. But a throwaway blog about an obscure part of the upcoming faction warfare revamp was much more interesting than it seemed. A small group of market and game mechanics wizards sat in a channel, put their heads together and designed a theoretical exploit to game the system. It succeeded beyond their wildest dreams.
Right there, they are admitting that they may have found a way to use the game mechanics to their advantage. Sure it was theoretical, but they have put it in practice.
2. The revamp to Faction Warfare in Inferno was the single biggest mistake CCP has ever made. It was bigger than guidance systems, which merely made us a couple of trillion isk. It was certainly bigger than deleting boot.ini, which merely cost CCP some bad press. It was possibly even bigger than Incarna, a potentially game ruining GÇÿexpansionGÇÖ *** cash grab. Simply put, Inferno was released with a way to destroy the value of missions.
Again they are clearly stating that they may have found an exploit, still theoretical at this point, since there is no admission of using it.
3. The original theory came about as many of the theories in the Jewbal do: Aryth wondering what the implications of X may be if we did Y. Every theory in the collective is always vetted, and so, Mynnna went to work on a super spreadsheet. This sheet would end up breaking down every niche of FW into its components and checking them for leaks; much like everything in Spreadsheets Online, once created, the sheet had to be tested via running the numbers countless times. Luckily, they added up.
Here they are clearly stating that they ran simulations and that they did in fact show signs of an exploit.
4. When CCP originally released their devblog on Inferno and revealed the formula they intended to use, we sat in shock. I immediately stated a phrase I would repeat many times: GÇ£/10000 will not save themGÇ¥. CCP made the assumption that rewarding a player 1/10th of the value of the playerGÇÖs kill at 1K ISK/LP, for a total of 10K ISK destroyed CCP Value/1 ISK reward, would prevent manipulation of the system. While this was an understandable mistake, it turned out to be several orders of magnitude off.
Here they clearly show that the initial setup of the game mechanics for FW in a devblog, it also clearly states that CCP thought it would prevent manipulation, therefore stating the way it was intended to work.
5. The test quickly became even bigger than anticipated because upon release, FW turned out to have a bug that rewarded LP for both dropped and exploded cargo, doubling the rewards.
Here the Goons clearly state that the bug was in fact real once put to test in a live environment and that they used it to double their gains.
6. CCP reacted quickly and patched this out, but the damage was done (not that it really mattered since it would merely have delayed the inevitable); the cabal had our GÇ£seedGÇ¥ LP. From here on out, the next step was to manipulate the outcome of Faction Warfare to dictate the tier level of the Minmatar faction.
Now here we can see that CCP fixed it to a point where they thought it would work as intended. The Goons also stated that with the gain they have made, without reprimands following, they were able to manipulate the system of FW.
7. The GÇ£costGÇ¥ in this equation was CCPGÇÖs own metric, which you can see by opening your cargo window or your station hangars and looking in the bottom right of the window. Therein lies the heart of the break GÇö CCPGÇÖs item value calculation was very vulnerable to manipulation. If you picked the right item, loaded hundreds of thousands of them into a Badger, then blew it up in the context of Faction Warfare, you could generate as much LP as you want for practically no cost. As long as you did the math right, the result was foolproof.
Here they are stating exactly what they did and how to use it to their advantages. By also stating they could "Generate as much LP as you want for practically no cost" is another sign that it is an exploit, that the system wasn't working as intended.
8. At this point, we had a problem: we still had not puzzled out CCPGÇÖs pricing update mechanics formula. Fortunately, we caught a break. A person tasked to figure out the CCP formula was able to come up with a fair guess at the CCP Price of a given item GÇô a three month EVE wide moving average.
Here we can see that they had found how CCP fixed it and therefore acknowledging that the exploit was still possible.
TO BE CONTINUED IN A SECOND POST
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Ten Bulls
Sons of Olsagard
185
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:12:00 -
[686] - Quote
If only someone had told CCP that it was a bad idea to make FW about ISK and mercenaries.
Surely CCP would have listened if they had been told they where makign a mistake.
SURELY !!! |
Lost InCogneto
Amarrian Retribution Amarr 7th Fleet
1
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:12:00 -
[687] - Quote
I say congratulations to goons for showing how CCP ruined Faction Wars wholeistic instead of listening to players wanting fixes to support pvp and faction war lore.
Good job - shame CCP |
ModeratedToSilence
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
134
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:14:00 -
[688] - Quote
Ten Bulls wrote:If only someone had told CCP that it was a bad idea to make FW about ISK and mercenaries.
Surely CCP would have listened if they had been told they where makign a mistake.
SURELY !!!
Yeah if only those people had just carried on and shown via actions what they had been warning CCP about. Oh wait they did... |
Hrothgar Nilsson
Black Guards Hades.
25
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:17:00 -
[689] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Most people are myopic. But not the Jewbal. What's a 'Jewbal'?
http://d.asset.soup.io/asset/1579/1917_fe03.gif |
McOboe
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
94
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Posted - 2012.06.22 03:19:00 -
[690] - Quote
Upon first reading the initial posts, I was a bit irritated. But now, I see what they've done- it's like they drew a giant "X" on a giant problem for CCP to solve. An exploitable mechanic of this size needed to be highlighted. I am glad though that they ceased pumping up the Minnies in FW. I was about to give up on Amarr with my alt. |
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