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Shmeria
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Posted - 2009.12.30 21:49:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Drakarin
Then how do planets orbit a star? They'd need constant thrust to do so. The idea fails right there...
In case you haven't noticed, the planets don't orbit!
Perhaps that is why! This explains so much!
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el caido
School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2009.12.30 22:12:00 -
[32]
There is no spoon.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.12.30 22:44:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Richest Mofo your clone is suspended in liquid, which is incompressible. Not sure what that means, but it sounds good.
Means nothing. You're suspended in liquid in the same way a submerged submarine is. Now consider what happens when you drop a wrench in a submarine and then think about your internal organs.
</Joe Haldeman>
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Grez
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
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Posted - 2009.12.30 22:48:00 -
[34]
Practical answer; Yes. Philisophical answer; No. ---
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Benedict Carol
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Posted - 2009.12.30 22:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Richest Mofo your clone is suspended in liquid, which is incompressible. Not sure what that means, but it sounds good.
Means nothing. You're suspended in liquid in the same way a submerged submarine is. Now consider what happens when you drop a wrench in a submarine and then think about your internal organs.
</Joe Haldeman>
Why do I suddenly have a craving for fried pickles?
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LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.30 23:01:00 -
[36]
Edited by: LittleTerror on 30/12/2009 23:01:45
If this is correct may i ask you a question?
would you like some toast :)
No I don't really like toast it is harmful.
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Hythloday Edited by: Hythloday on 30/12/2009 18:53:19 Eve-O forums: Where people can have a discussion about physics, while completely disregarding the fact that spaceships in Eve traverse through a luminous space aether rather than a vacuum.
Eve's luminous space aether causes resistance, and so velocity and time become absolute rather than relative, contrary to Newton and Einstein's laws and theories about our universe. So unlike in our universe, constant thrust is required to maintain velocity.
I would say that seeing as how Eve is set in a universe that isn't bound by Newtonian physics (and relativity), theres no point in thinking about how many newtons of force you would experience as your ship accelerates.
Then how do planets orbit a star? They'd need constant thrust to do so. The idea fails right there...
Central force or whatever it is called, the sun is massive the earth is small, take a commit for instance entering the solar system. It can be dragged into an orbit with our sun due the suns much bigger displacement of space like a big marble sitting on a blanket. Take a marble and place it in a wide bowl which is shallow and make the marble spin around the bowl. It will spin around until it ends up in the centre due to friction and earth's own gravity, same thing in space except there is no gravity or friction or only a very small amount.
So planets continue to spin around the suns displacement, I guess due to a small amount of friction all planets will eventually fall into the sun. When something burns up into our atmosphere it has fallen ^^ |
Baneken
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.30 23:03:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Baneken on 30/12/2009 23:03:19 And one thing about being submerged in to an inflexible space goo, well guess what your internal organs still move freely inside of you. So for us this would mean your internal organs would be splattered every which way inside your body-cavity each time you decelerate/accelerate rapidly OR come in to a full stop...
So can I have a pair of those inertial dampeners, please.
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LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.30 23:06:00 -
[38]
Space and time are bent so light travels along its surface so that's how everything looks a straight line and not curved and stretched like it actually is. |
Hyperforce99
Gallente GoldTech Mischievous Industrial Logistics Ltd.
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Posted - 2009.12.30 23:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: LittleTerror Space and time are bent so light travels along its surface so that's how everything looks a straight line and not curved and stretched like it actually is.
say what now?
--------------------------------------------- Somewhere beyond happyness and sadness, I need to calculate what creates my own madness o/ |
Jaggeh
The Order of Odin
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Posted - 2009.12.30 23:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Hyperforce99
Originally by: LittleTerror Space and time are bent so light travels along its surface so that's how everything looks a straight line and not curved and stretched like it actually is.
say what now?
you are looking at the inside/outside of the curve so the line appears straight.
plus
Isp = F / m(dot) g = c / g
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.31 00:05:00 -
[41]
little imagination goes a long way.
just because we can travel across system in seconds, doesn't mean ships in EVE universe can. just because we maneuver at speeds shown as meter/second, doesn't mean ships in EVE universe do.
don't take game simplifications as proof of EVE not supporting scientific logic.
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Usagi Tsukino
Miyazaki Zaibatsu APEX Conglomerate
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Posted - 2009.12.31 00:16:00 -
[42]
Full explanation. ---
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Drakarin
Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.12.31 00:22:00 -
[43]
Originally by: LittleTerror Edited by: LittleTerror on 30/12/2009 23:01:45
If this is correct may i ask you a question?
would you like some toast :)
No I don't really like toast it is harmful.
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: Hythloday Edited by: Hythloday on 30/12/2009 18:53:19 Eve-O forums: Where people can have a discussion about physics, while completely disregarding the fact that spaceships in Eve traverse through a luminous space aether rather than a vacuum.
Eve's luminous space aether causes resistance, and so velocity and time become absolute rather than relative, contrary to Newton and Einstein's laws and theories about our universe. So unlike in our universe, constant thrust is required to maintain velocity.
I would say that seeing as how Eve is set in a universe that isn't bound by Newtonian physics (and relativity), theres no point in thinking about how many newtons of force you would experience as your ship accelerates.
Then how do planets orbit a star? They'd need constant thrust to do so. The idea fails right there...
Central force or whatever it is called, the sun is massive the earth is small, take a commit for instance entering the solar system. It can be dragged into an orbit with our sun due the suns much bigger displacement of space like a big marble sitting on a blanket. Take a marble and place it in a wide bowl which is shallow and make the marble spin around the bowl. It will spin around until it ends up in the centre due to friction and earth's own gravity, same thing in space except there is no gravity or friction or only a very small amount.
So planets continue to spin around the suns displacement, I guess due to a small amount of friction all planets will eventually fall into the sun. When something burns up into our atmosphere it has fallen ^^
It's called centrifugal force and I know why planets orbit a star in real life, but given hythloday's model of EvE physics, eventually regardless of how strong the curving of space is, the object would "fall" towards the center. In essence, given hyth's model, all planets would be fairly rapidly moving towards the sun and eventually be engulfed by it.
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LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 00:30:00 -
[44]
Fairly rapidly yes but in our perception of time? In the 70 - 80 years we live no. |
LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 16:34:00 -
[45]
Edited by: LittleTerror on 31/12/2009 16:34:16 What no reply? oh bummer...
our time here is so small compared with the infinite universe, now try to get your head around it... Our solar system will one day comes together and form one huge star which will transform many billions of years after into either a blackhole or it will simply shrink into a dwarf or maybe explode into a huge super nova. Given the pathetic size of our sun compared with the huge giants of the universe I think it will either just expend its energy and shrink into a dwarf star (a cold mass orbiting the centre of our galaxy) or it will collapse in on it self creating a blackhole.
What ever happens to it don't worry we will be long gone either transcending the stars and forgetting about mother earth entirely to even care what happened to her. Or we workout why we are here and then move up into an entirely new universe.
Point is these things take billions and billions of years to follow through, the moon will smash into the earth in millions of years time but it is in a close orbit already. Now about the bodies creating a indent in space, galaxy's also do this as a whole spinning mass of solar systems and there are many of them...
So now think how one galaxy collides with another, the smaller galaxy providing it is not going on a direct collision coarse will enter the large galaxy's field of influence and begin a long spin around the large galaxy. until they smash into each other and move together as one in more or less the same direction as the large galaxy was moving in. This whole process takes billions of years, rapid if you can think about it as a whole process but not if you think on a human civilisation scale.
You can get a better idea by looking at washing up liquid bubbles on the surface of water, they don't spin around each other before colliding because they are fixed due to the earth's gravity. In space on the surface of water they would spin if they could.
This of coarse is just based off of a theroy I once read about :D and the one I tend to believe the most. |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.12.31 17:39:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 31/12/2009 17:41:22
Originally by: LittleTerror now try to get your head around it... Our solar system will one day comes together and form one huge star which will transform many billions of years after into either a blackhole or it will simply shrink into a dwarf or maybe explode into a huge super nova.
I am willing to accept the fact that you don't have a physics degree, or even a grasp of basic high-school physics, but surely you're capable of using Google!
Our sun is about half way through its life. It will enter its "dying" transition in about five billion years. It will not become a supernova, it lack sufficient mass. It will become, for a while, a Red Giant. Earth will probably be swallowed as the sun expands, but it won't matter to us because the Earth will have already been uninhabitable for about four billion years. The sun will then begin unstable fluctuations, throwing off nebulae for a while before cooling down to a White Dwarf.
Originally by: LittleTerror Point is these things take billions and billions of years to follow through, the moon will smash into the earth in millions of years time but it is in a close orbit already.
No. In fact the moon is getting farther and farther away, albeit very slowly.
Originally by: LittleTerror You can get a better idea by looking at washing up liquid bubbles on the surface of water, they don't spin around each other before colliding because they are fixed due to the earth's gravity. In space on the surface of water they would spin if they could.
No. Just, no.
Originally by: LittleTerror This of coarse is just based off of a theroy I once read about :D and the one I tend to believe the most.
I think that, coarse or fine, you should read a few more theroys.
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LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 17:54:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier Edited by: Catherine Frasier on 31/12/2009 17:41:22
Originally by: LittleTerror now try to get your head around it... Our solar system will one day comes together and form one huge star which will transform many billions of years after into either a blackhole or it will simply shrink into a dwarf or maybe explode into a huge super nova.
I am willing to accept the fact that you don't have a physics degree, or even a grasp of basic high-school physics, but surely you're capable of using Google!
Our sun is about half way through its life. It will enter its "dying" transition in about five billion years. It will not become a supernova, it lack sufficient mass. It will become, for a while, a Red Giant. Earth will probably be swallowed as the sun expands, but it won't matter to us because the Earth will have already been uninhabitable for about four billion years. The sun will then begin unstable fluctuations, throwing off nebulae for a while before cooling down to a White Dwarf.
Originally by: LittleTerror Point is these things take billions and billions of years to follow through, the moon will smash into the earth in millions of years time but it is in a close orbit already.
No. In fact the moon is getting farther and farther away, albeit very slowly.
Originally by: LittleTerror You can get a better idea by looking at washing up liquid bubbles on the surface of water, they don't spin around each other before colliding because they are fixed due to the earth's gravity. In space on the surface of water they would spin if they could.
No. Just, no.
Originally by: LittleTerror This of coarse is just based off of a theroy I once read about :D and the one I tend to believe the most.
I think that, coarse or fine, you should read a few more theroys.
Your post is so full of fail. |
LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:04:00 -
[48]
Or maybe not if we think of planetary bodies as being concious and wanting there own space?
The moon will inevitable smash into the earth man/lady, like everything in orbit eventually does, only due to its mass which is canny big does it maintain its orbit in such a steady and stable way. I don't get my answers from google because its full of people like you with a degree in physics... Oh wait sorry I think you don't have one lol and even if you did it is clear I don't listen to people that do have one... I don't trust them, this is not taught in school because everything we believe in might melt... |
Drakarin
Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:09:00 -
[49]
Originally by: LittleTerror Fairly rapidly yes but in our perception of time? In the 70 - 80 years we live no.
What?
No.
Physics don't change from the start. The universe itself would never have expanded the way it did given this luminous essence or whatever, and if it had, the planets would have long since been annihilated by the stars. Galaxies would have crumbled into each other. Everything would be a total mess. It's completely implausible in every way. |
Zathriz
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:12:00 -
[50]
All I know is the bobbing up and down of my ship is truely annoying. |
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:14:00 -
[51]
Originally by: LittleTerror The moon will inevitable smash into the earth man/lady, like everything in orbit eventually does, only due to its mass which is canny big does it maintain its orbit in such a steady and stable way.
Again, no. Everything in orbit does no eventually collide with its primary. That's simply wrong. You are ignoring (or, more likely, ignorant of) tidal acceleration. Since you are just too cool to Google I'll provide you with a link to the ubiquitous Wikipedia.
Originally by: LittleTerror I don't trust them, this is not taught in school because everything we believe in might melt...
Well then hands off the computer and get back to your snake oil and crystal pyramids. |
LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:15:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: LittleTerror Fairly rapidly yes but in our perception of time? In the 70 - 80 years we live no.
What?
No.
Physics don't change from the start. The universe itself would never have expanded the way it did given this luminous essence or whatever, and if it had, the planets would have long since been annihilated by the stars. Galaxies would have crumbled into each other. Everything would be a total mess. It's completely implausible in every way.
Hummm hehe...
Umm, yes you're right but what if life began shortly after the formation of the universe and is only now just beginning to get technical enough to ask the questions we do here today?
Don't forget we are only 1 million if that years old as a species, in the last 100 years how far have we come in advancement in technology while almost completely ignoring the question why the **** is it we are here with all this ****? |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: LittleTerror /edit and how the heck do you know? You don't so don't tell me no you close minded google marathon fool...
I know because instead of sitting in our Mom's basement and making up with little mental cartoons to explain the lights in the sky we have actually investigated. We have been measuring, recording and testing these things for centuries.
It's called science, you just might want to look into it.
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LittleTerror
Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.31 18:53:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: LittleTerror The moon will inevitable smash into the earth man/lady, like everything in orbit eventually does, only due to its mass which is canny big does it maintain its orbit in such a steady and stable way.
Again, no. Everything in orbit does no eventually collide with its primary. That's simply wrong. You are ignoring (or, more likely, ignorant of) tidal acceleration. Since you are just too cool to Google I'll provide you with a link to the ubiquitous Wikipedia.
Originally by: LittleTerror I don't trust them, this is not taught in school because everything we believe in might melt...
Well then hands off the computer and get back to your snake oil and crystal pyramids.
Well i will look at it yes, but i don't see it working since the moon would have been long gone and so would this planet... |
Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.12.31 19:13:00 -
[55]
Originally by: LittleTerror Well i will look at it yes
That's excellent!
Originally by: LittleTerror i don't see it working since the moon would have been long gone and so would this planet...
Well, it does "work". The "problem" is that it's happening very slowly, right now the Moon is receding at about 3.8 centimetres every year. The other "problem" is that this rate is not constant, a billion years ago the rate of recession was less than half what it is now.
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Drakarin
Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.12.31 20:00:00 -
[56]
true, there should NOT be a proverbial "up" and "down" in a space game. I mean, come on! EvE physics act like we're in fluidic space, not a vacuum.
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.31 20:03:00 -
[57]
Question Is there G-force in space, if so how with no gravity..
Answer Hi Sean.
If there is a force behind you, such as thrust, then you will feel the effects of gravity, otherwise you are going faster than gravity, and the laws of perpetual motion say that once in motion you will always stay in motion.
Otherwise no g-force.
Thanks for the question. Sorry that its a bit hard to explain.
Linkage
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Drakarin
Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.12.31 20:11:00 -
[58]
Originally by: LittleTerror
Originally by: Drakarin
Originally by: LittleTerror Fairly rapidly yes but in our perception of time? In the 70 - 80 years we live no.
What?
No.
Physics don't change from the start. The universe itself would never have expanded the way it did given this luminous essence or whatever, and if it had, the planets would have long since been annihilated by the stars. Galaxies would have crumbled into each other. Everything would be a total mess. It's completely implausible in every way.
Hummm hehe...
Umm, yes you're right but what if life began shortly after the formation of the universe and is only now just beginning to get technical enough to ask the questions we do here today?
Don't forget we are only 1 million if that years old as a species, in the last 100 years how far have we come in advancement in technology while almost completely ignoring the question why the **** is it we are here with all this ****?
If it requires constant energy to maintain movement even in space, then even for a planet moving at several thousand kilometers an hour, it would not take very long for it to slow to a complete halt, however the main issue is, it won't just "suddenly" stop, the speed would gradually reduce, and as a product of this, the planets orbit would move closer and closer to the sun. This would increase planetary temperature very fast, start to burn off the atmosphere we absolutely must have to survive, and make adapting to weather that changes radically every couple of months nigh impossible.
I'm sorry, but it's absolutely impossible to maintain a universe given the set of circumstances.
In fact, pretty much any law of physics as we understand them now can't be tweaked at all, everything from having weak gravity to the speed of light, if any of it was changed even slightly things would be completely whack.
I love science fiction, but to a degree. I don't think messing with fundamental laws of physics for the ENTIRE set of universe it takes place in makes any sense.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2009.12.31 20:46:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Joe Skellington If there is a force behind you, such as thrust, then you will feel the effects of gravity
If there is thrust acting upon you, you will experience acceleration which will feel "the same" as the feeling you have when you experience the pull of gravity.
Originally by: Joe Skellington otherwise you are going faster than gravity
Gravity doesn't "go" so you can't go "faster" than gravity.
Originally by: Joe Skellington the laws of perpetual motion say that once in motion you will always stay in motion.
I think you're thinking of Newton's Laws of Motion. Specifically his First Law which states that "Every object persists in its state of rest or uniform motion straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by forces impressed upon it."
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Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries Revival Of The Talocan Empire
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Posted - 2009.12.31 20:52:00 -
[60]
I was quoting an aviation "expert" (with the source link on the bottom) but I don't think he explained it well, in essence he said there was no g-force in space.
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Joe Skellington If there is a force behind you, such as thrust, then you will feel the effects of gravity
If there is thrust acting upon you, you will experience acceleration which will feel "the same" as the feeling you have when you experience the pull of gravity.
Originally by: Joe Skellington otherwise you are going faster than gravity
Gravity doesn't "go" so you can't go "faster" than gravity.
Originally by: Joe Skellington the laws of perpetual motion say that once in motion you will always stay in motion.
I think you're thinking of Newton's Laws of Motion. Specifically his First Law which states that "Every object persists in its state of rest or uniform motion straight forward, except insofar as it is compelled to change its state by forces impressed upon it."
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