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Dominix vs Rattlesnake ???

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Kookie Snr	Posted - 2009.12.30 08:52:00 - [1] This isn't about missions really more a ship comparison, but I'll explain what I need the ship for to put it in context. I run a Dominix tank to accompany my main mission running ship, I use either ogre IIs or garde IIs and just have them set to assist my main. Can the Rattlesnake get the same drone damage as the dominix, I've tried looking in EFT and although it would appear they should be the same, the Rattlesnake comes out a fair bit lower - could be i have an outdated version of EFT or just that I'm missing something? I know the whole cost implication thing, but I wouldn't mind the rattlesnake for a ship to help when I solo the odd mission where I get ludicrous tracking disruption on my Paladin. Thanks
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2009.12.30 09:52:00 - [2] Rattlesnake has the same drone bay size, same bandwidth and same drone damage bonus. It should be equal to the Dominx. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.30 10:32:00 - [3] The Rattlesnake is far better. As you have a far bigger tank you can fit tons of drone boosting modules. I run my Rattlesnake with x3 navy drone tracking mods, x2 drone speed mods and still have over a 1000dps omni tank. Like that the Rattlesnake drones can kill a target before the Domi with a normal tanked domi setup. With 3 navy mods I find the Rattlesnakes hvy drones can even hit frigs. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Kookie Snr	Posted - 2009.12.30 10:43:00 - [4] Since there's something clearly wrong with my EFT any chance of posting your omni setup please?
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.30 10:53:00 - [5] Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 10:55:39 The shield setup is way overtanked, you can downgrade to T1 purgers and from faction to T2 modules without a problem. [Rattlesnake] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Large Shield Extender II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Drone Navigation Computer I Drone Navigation Computer I Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Ogre II x5 Or if you perfer to armor tank you can try something like below, its a weaker tank but more then enough for missions and might mean you dont need to cross train to shields. [Rattlesnake,] Large Armor Repairer II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II or DCU II Cap Recharger II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Drone Navigation Computer I Drone Navigation Computer I Cap Recharger II Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor Black Eagle Drone Link Augmentor Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Auxiliary Nano Pump II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Ogre II x5 ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.30 11:05:00 - [6] Kookie Snr said " I know the whole cost implication thing, but I wouldn't mind the rattlesnake for a ship to help when I solo the odd mission where I get ludicrous tracking disruption on my Paladin." A better option for you might to fully fit all or most of the Rattlesnake slots on tank. Warp in and get all the rats to aggro the rattlesnake set drones to assist the Paladin. Now fit the Paladin for full gank, no tracking disruption problem. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
EvilTwin I Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2009.12.30 11:12:00 - [7] can't wait till people start read the attributes and ship bonuses
Kookie Snr	Posted - 2009.12.30 11:13:00 - [8] Edited by: Kookie Snr on 30/12/2009 11:14:09 Cheers for the setups. Sorry I had thought I'd made it clear that although the descriptions suggested both ships should do the same drone damage for some reason EFT was saying differently, so before spending in the region of 800mil on a ship I thought I'd checked. The tracking disruption is just on the occasions when i single box and the Paladin becomes a nightmare by itself on the odd 'disrupting' mission. Use to run the main tank ship before and then max gank on my other, which was a Nightmare ship, awesome setup until one day I lost connection and when I managed to log back on the Dominix was still there tanking away but the Nightmare was popped, so now I'm overly cautious and like to have some tank on both ships:)
MoeJoe Green Gallente The Black Legionnares Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.30 11:30:00 - [9] Edited by: MoeJoe Green on 30/12/2009 11:32:02 How about this AFK setup? Insane tank... reps 214 hp/s, cap stable and great resist because of the bonuses from the ship. [Rattlesnake, Rattle.AFK] Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II X-Large Shield Booster II Shield Boost Amplifier II Shield Boost Amplifier II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Omnidirectional Tracking Link I Drone Link Augmentor I Drone Link Augmentor I Small Tractor Beam I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Large Drone Speed Augmentor I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.30 11:41:00 - [10] Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 11:44:13 MoeJoe Green said "How about this AFK setup? Insane tank..." If you think that is insane look at a passive tank version. Double the HP regen to 400 HP/s or over 450 HP/s if in a gang with the same resistance as the active. In fact I think you're better off skipping the x2 Ballistic Deflection Field II and Heat Dissipation Field II, fitting shield rechargers and hitting over 700 HP regen per second. The DPS tanked isnt as good but the HP regen is crasy. EDIT: Although I have a few passive tank implants you're still talking almost double the HP regen of an active tank without implants and a passive setup. Plus you have a little more buffer as well. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
TimMc Gallente Extradition	Posted - 2009.12.30 12:34:00 - [11] What you think of this? [Rattlesnake, Passive] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Dread Guristas Ballistic Control System Gist C-Type 100MN Afterburner Domination Target Painter Domination Target Painter Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Federation Navy Omnidirectional Tracking Link Dread Guristas Invulnerability Field Pithum B-Type Magnetic Scattering Amplifier Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Siege Missile Launcher II, Mjolnir Torpedo Small Tractor Beam I Salvager I Large Sentry Damage Augmentor I Large Core Defence Field Purger II Large Core Defence Field Purger II Garde II x5 Shove in 5% shield hp and regen implants, get 448dps omni tank and do 878dps. Could replace the invuln and resist amp with rat specific hardeners for more of a tank.
Randon Alt67	Posted - 2009.12.30 15:26:00 - [12] While the Rattlesnake DOES have an advantage over the Domi you also have to look at how much that thing costs. A Domi is under 50MIl and a Rattlesnake 1Bil+ if I recall right now. The Navy Domi can fit a fairly nice tank and if you have good gunnery skills you can put out some nice additional DPS with guns. What people are not mentioning is that he Torps will barely be useful since they are not fitting target painters. I would say you are better off with Cruise Missles for a mission setup, but most BC and above will kill them with defender missiles so you are only putting 1-2 missiles on in addition to the drones. Yes the Rattlesnake is better on paper, but reality is often not as nice as paper. The Gila/Ishtar can arguably compare to both ships.
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.30 15:35:00 - [13] Randon Alt67 said "What people are not mentioning is that he Torps will barely be useful since they are not fitting target painters." Barely useful? I have no problem hitting battleships with torps with no target painters, I even hit BC's decently. Anything BC or smaller is its going die in seconds to your drones anyway with x3 tracking and x2 speed mods so why is a target painter needed? I guess you could replace one drone mod or even the shield extender with a target painter if you wanted. I did some experiments and found I did more damage overall with torps then cruise. Sure Cruise have nicer range but even without target painters torps hit harder. I don't think the Gila/Ishtar compare to the Rattel as the Gila/Ishtar cannot fit as many support drone modules without losing to much tank and the Gila/Ishtar high slot weapons dont put out as much DPS as the Rattle. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
K'racker Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.30 16:42:00 - [14] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 12:11:13 MoeJoe Green said "How about this AFK setup? Insane tank..." If you think that is insane look at a passive tank version. Double the HP regen to 400 HP/s or over 450 HP/s if in a gang with the same resistance as the active. In fact I think you're better off skipping the x2 Ballistic Deflection Field II and Heat Dissipation Field II, fitting shield rechargers and hitting over 700 HP regen per second. The DPS tanked isnt as good but the HP regen is crasy. EDIT: Although I have a few passive tank implants you're still talking almost double the HP regen of an active tank without implants and a passive setup. Plus you have a little more buffer as well. EDIT2: Has anyone looked at a full shield recharge and SPR setup with purger T2 rigs? Over 900 HP regen solo or over 1000 HP regen in a gang, 45 ish seconds from 0 to 100% shields. Although you are better off fitting one shield extender the fun factor of shield rechargers needs to be taken into account. EDIT3: Or if you want to be really stupid use shield flux. Still a 1000dps tank but your shields recharge in 27seconds. eft uses peak regen, which is at about 34% shield. it's much less regen above or below this mark. you sound like a nub drake pilot tbh with tons of regen and no resists and wonder why they get chased out of lvl 3's
Randon Alt67	Posted - 2009.12.30 16:45:00 - [15] Originally by: Pottsey Randon Alt67 said "What people are not mentioning is that he Torps will barely be useful since they are not fitting target painters." Barely useful? I have no problem hitting battleships with torps with no target painters, I even hit BC's decently. Anything BC or smaller is its going die in seconds to your drones anyway with x3 tracking and x2 speed mods so why is a target painter needed? I guess you could replace one drone mod or even the shield extender with a target painter if you wanted. I did some experiments and found I did more damage overall with torps then cruise. Sure Cruise have nicer range but even without target painters torps hit harder. I don't think the Gila/Ishtar compare to the Rattel as the Gila/Ishtar cannot fit as many support drone modules without losing to much tank and the Gila/Ishtar high slot weapons dont put out as much DPS as the Rattle. I wouldn't be caught dead in a Rattlesnake in Lowsec, but don't have any thoughts about not takiing out a Domi or an Ishtar. That is an additional view point I guess.
K'racker Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.30 16:48:00 - [16] Edited by: K''racker on 30/12/2009 16:48:44 double post; cat on keyboard ;p
stoicfaux	Posted - 2009.12.30 17:28:00 - [17] Originally by: Kookie Snr Can the Rattlesnake get the same drone damage as the dominix No. A Domi can mount two Sentry Drone Damage rigs, whereas a Rattlesnake can only mount one. Plus the Rattlesnake may need the rig slots for shield purgers. ----- "Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you! -- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP"
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:22:00 - [18] Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 18:24:44 K'racker said "eft uses peak regen, which is at about 34% shield. it's much less regen above or below this mark. you sound like a nub drake pilot tbh with tons of regen and no resists and wonder why they get chased out of lvl 3's " You do realise don't you that full regen setup with zero resistance modules can tank any level 4 mission with ease. It's a sub optimal setup but it works. Only a complete nub as you put it would tell me of all people when peak regen is. First Peak regen is at 30%. Second peak regen is not much less until you hit high double digits marks. 40% is not that much worse then 20 or 30%. It only really slow down a massive amount at the 85%+ or sub 15% areas. Who said anything about using EFT? I used those setups in game. So what if its 1000 HP regen at 30%. That means you can tank well over 1200+ DPS with a very fast recovery time to get back to max shields. Like I said before it might be sub optimal but it's fun and works well and you gain back your buffer hitpoints very fast. Tons of regen and no resistance can work just as well as less regen and more resistances. I run my T3 shield Proteus with zero resistance modules as it tanks more that way due to high regen. Only the real noobs fit resistance modules blindly. The people who truly know what they are doing know when to fit resistance modules and when they don't need to. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2009.12.30 18:52:00 - [19] Originally by: stoicfaux No. A Domi can mount two Sentry Drone Damage rigs, whereas a Rattlesnake can only mount one. Plus the Rattlesnake may need the rig slots for shield purgers. This is true, but 2 SDA Domis have extremely thin tanks. While it can be done (barely), I found it best to run with 1 SDA/CCC/ANP for the rigs - and even then you're just trading on your HP buffer to get the damage down. The rattlesnake has almost twice as much omnitank as a 2 SDA/3 MFS domi has rat specific. And what's more is that it can run it for far, far longer. I'd say the Rattlesnake beats the Domi (and Navy Domi) - but not by a whole hell of a lot. Warping out of Stop the Thief really sucks .... but then again you should be running a neutron domi in stop the thief. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Ranger 1 Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition	Posted - 2009.12.30 20:23:00 - [20] Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 18:24:44 K'racker said "eft uses peak regen, which is at about 34% shield. it's much less regen above or below this mark. you sound like a nub drake pilot tbh with tons of regen and no resists and wonder why they get chased out of lvl 3's " You do realise don't you that full regen setup with zero resistance modules can tank any level 4 mission with ease. It's a sub optimal setup but it works. Only a complete nub as you put it would tell me of all people when peak regen is. First Peak regen is at 30%. Second peak regen is not much less until you hit high double digits marks. 40% is not that much worse then 20 or 30%. It only really slow down a massive amount at the 85%+ or sub 15% areas. Who said anything about using EFT? I used those setups in game. So what if its 1000 HP regen at 30%. That means you can tank well over 1200+ DPS with a very fast recovery time to get back to max shields. Like I said before it might be sub optimal but it's fun and works well and you gain back your buffer hitpoints very fast. Tons of regen and no resistance can work just as well as less regen and more resistances. I run my T3 shield Proteus with zero resistance modules as it tanks more that way due to high regen. Only the real noobs fit resistance modules blindly. The people who truly know what they are doing know when to fit resistance modules and when they don't need to. K'racker, while I may not see eye to eye with Pottsey on other game issues he pretty much wrote the book (literally) on passive tanking in EVE. No offense, but if you want to learn a thing or two about passive tanking check Pottsey's post history, although for the full read you will have to go back a few years to the point where passive tanking became a viable option. ===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you.
Shaemell Buttleson Euphoria Released	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:23:00 - [21] LOL @ K'racker
Georgi Kuriacin Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:36:00 - [22] Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson LOL @ K'racker It reminds me of the time someone told Halada he didn't know anything about mining.
Caleb Fury Amarr Did I just do that	Posted - 2009.12.31 00:40:00 - [23] Originally by: K'racker Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 12:11:13 MoeJoe Green said "How about this AFK setup? Insane tank..." If you think that is insane look at a passive tank version. Double the HP regen to 400 HP/s or over 450 HP/s if in a gang with the same resistance as the active. In fact I think you're better off skipping the x2 Ballistic Deflection Field II and Heat Dissipation Field II, fitting shield rechargers and hitting over 700 HP regen per second. The DPS tanked isnt as good but the HP regen is crasy. EDIT: Although I have a few passive tank implants you're still talking almost double the HP regen of an active tank without implants and a passive setup. Plus you have a little more buffer as well. EDIT2: Has anyone looked at a full shield recharge and SPR setup with purger T2 rigs? Over 900 HP regen solo or over 1000 HP regen in a gang, 45 ish seconds from 0 to 100% shields. Although you are better off fitting one shield extender the fun factor of shield rechargers needs to be taken into account. EDIT3: Or if you want to be really stupid use shield flux. Still a 1000dps tank but your shields recharge in 27seconds. eft uses peak regen, which is at about 34% shield. it's much less regen above or below this mark. you sound like a nub drake pilot tbh with tons of regen and no resists and wonder why they get chased out of lvl 3's Man has zero clue.
Footoo Rama Gallente Caldari Illuminati	Posted - 2009.12.31 09:06:00 - [24] All I see is that a 1billion isk unfitted ship is slightly better then a ship that is can be made for under 100 million isk with fit/rigs. ------- "Because the Dominix is the Chuck Norris of Eve!"
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.31 10:00:00 - [25] Footoo Rama said "All I see is that a 1billion isk unfitted ship is slightly better then a ship that is can be made for under 100 million isk with fit/rigs." Yes you can fit a Domi for less then the price of the Rattlesnake but if you look at peak performance of both ships the Rattlesnake comes out way ahead in most PvE situations.Its far more then slightly better, you should take another look. The advantage is the tank is far stronger. That means two things, either you can tank harder things solo like level 5's. Or more likely if you're running level 4 missions you can have way more slots not used for tanking. When you have 5 or a lot more slots used for none tanking things the missions go far faster. The trick with the Rattlesnake is to not overtank. Take that first setup I posted. It has 5 mid slots without tank modules and the ship is still way over tanked at 1000dps tank so you can free up more slots. A domi cannot do that. Look at TimMc's setup. He has 2 low slots, 5 mid slots and 1 rig all for none tanking modules and the ship still tanks well. That is far more then slightly better than a Domi. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.12.31 11:39:00 - [26] Originally by: Footoo Rama All I see is that a 1billion isk unfitted ship is slightly better then a ship that is can be made for under 100 million isk with fit/rigs. I perfectly agree with Pottsey on this that the Rattlesnake > Domi. I think the point Footoo Rama was trying to make is that an unfitted Rattlesnake is still better than a fitted Domi. So that when you fit the Rattlesnake out, it'll be far far better than the Domi.
MoeJoe Green Gallente The Black Legionnares Sylph Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.31 13:08:00 - [27] Edited by: MoeJoe Green on 31/12/2009 13:10:01 Originally by: Pottsey Edited by: Pottsey on 30/12/2009 12:11:13 MoeJoe Green said "How about this AFK setup? Insane tank..." If you think that is insane look at a passive tank version. Double the HP regen to 400 HP/s or over 450 HP/s if in a gang with the same resistance as the active. In fact I think you're better off skipping the x2 Ballistic Deflection Field II and Heat Dissipation Field II, fitting shield rechargers and hitting over 700 HP regen per second. The DPS tanked isnt as good but the HP regen is crasy. I thought they made the new faction AND pirate battleships awful at PST. ...That tank is just stupid. This ship has way to many slots.
Bulaba Jones	Posted - 2009.12.31 15:43:00 - [28] The first hull tanking mission boat? vv If you guys are so bored...
Entity X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence	Posted - 2009.12.31 15:59:00 - [29] Side note: Absolute peak recharge occurs at 25% shield (or cap, it's the same formula), not 30%. _ Got Item? \| EVE API? \| Cache?
Pottsey Enheduanni Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.31 16:11:00 - [30] It's not the same as cap and peak is 30%. Well 29.85 something. Rounded to 30%. Unless peak was changed and I did not notice. ______ How to Passive Shield Tank T2

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