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Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.12.31 04:20:00 -
[1]
Missile users, how do you group your launchers and why?
What is this time flux thing? |
Xavier Maroquin
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Posted - 2009.12.31 04:25:00 -
[2]
Depends on the situation.
When I am running missions in my Caracal, and I know there will be a lot of weak frigs, I keep them ungrouped so I can multitask, and it also seems to make them do more damage... (two volleys with all five or two volleys with 1 kill a frig )
If I know there's a big target I may keep them grouped, whether pvp or pve...
There is no "right" way to group them, it depends on your situation and tastes.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.31 07:43:00 -
[3]
Leave them ungrouped to spread the launches unless the set-up relies on alpha. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.12.31 07:46:00 -
[4]
im not a missile user, but following the same logic i did with turrets, i made 2 groups, in order to split dps versus smaller targets if they are small or concetrate fire on bigger targets.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.31 08:46:00 -
[5]
It depends a bit on alpha you do, but in PVE group as much as possible since it decreases damage removed by defender missiles.
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Jacob Holland
Gallente Weyland-Vulcan Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.31 08:59:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Furb Killer It depends a bit on alpha you do, but in PVE group as much as possible since it decreases damage removed by defender missiles.
Exactly the opposite. Defender missiles are AoE and they will destroy multiple missiles if you blob them up. By spreading your launches you reduce the effect of defenders, by grouping them you increase it. --
Originally by: cordy
Respect to IAC .Your one of the few people who truly deserve to own and live in the space you are in.
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Artemis Rose
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.12.31 09:07:00 -
[7]
Group them before you lose your sanity pressing f1-f8 *** Currently Playing: Trolls from Outer Space Current Equipment: VISAcard chain mail, +2 Amulet of Epic Whine, Self Banstick +2 WTB: +666 E-peen killboard stats |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.31 09:09:00 -
[8]
I group em all so I can apply my dps a second earlier then if I had not grouped them. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.12.31 10:01:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Jacob Holland Defender missiles are AoE and they will destroy multiple missiles if you blob them up. By spreading your launches you reduce the effect of defenders, by grouping them you increase it.
Defenders are not AOE. At least that's what testing suggests. After one NPC defender missile hitting a group of 6 cruise, 5 cruise worth of damage still applies.
What's unclear to me is whether NPC's decision to fire one defender is made per group or per missile in a group. What is this time flux thing? |
Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.31 10:17:00 -
[10]
I think the chance increases a defender missile is fired at a missile group. Still it is far less than when ungrouped, since chance might then be lower but the amount of missiles is way higher, so more defenders fired.
Even if defenders would be AOE, which they arent, it still would be irrelevant since when grouped you dont fire a missile blob, you fire a single missile with the combined stats of all launchers. Grouping decreases defender missiles impact.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2009.12.31 10:29:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Gypsio III on 31/12/2009 10:29:13
If the chance of a Defender launching is the same regardless of grouping, then you should avoid grouping. Defenders home in on the closest missile; if you launch a volley of ungrouped missiles, all defenders will tend to home in on the closest one and destroy it (if it's not a torpedo) with the first Defender. The other Defenders then have no target and are lost.
If you launcher a single grouped missile, however, then all Defenders launched would have hit home against it, intercept dynamics permitting.
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Glassback
Body Count Inc. Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2009.12.31 10:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jacob Holland Exactly the opposite. Defender missiles are AoE and they will destroy multiple missiles if you blob them up. By spreading your launches you reduce the effect of defenders, by grouping them you increase it.
Totally not true.
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Leyvan
Stand Vyritza
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Posted - 2009.12.31 10:54:00 -
[13]
On missions with lots of small crap, groups of two. On pirate and everything else, group em all together for MAGICAL GLOWING BALL OF DAMAGE
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.31 11:01:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Gypsio III Edited by: Gypsio III on 31/12/2009 10:29:13
If the chance of a Defender launching is the same regardless of grouping, then you should avoid grouping. Defenders home in on the closest missile; if you launch a volley of ungrouped missiles, all defenders will tend to home in on the closest one and destroy it (if it's not a torpedo) with the first Defender. The other Defenders then have no target and are lost.
If you launcher a single grouped missile, however, then all Defenders launched would have hit home against it, intercept dynamics permitting.
That is true for pvp, what is the last time you saw defender missiles in pvp? In pve they dont do that, so group them.
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Elora Danzik
Caldari Idiots In Spaceships Psychotic Tendencies.
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Posted - 2009.12.31 15:49:00 -
[15]
For PvE I never group them. Need to be flexible and can concentrate or spread fire as needed.
For PVP I usually group my HAM on a drake in a 2-2-3 fashion. Since the the ROF on the Hams with my fitting and skills is about 3.5 secs, I f1-f3 at about 1 sec intervals. So it ends up they take constant damage. So far has worked pretty well.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2009.12.31 17:00:00 -
[16]
With a Cerberus in PvP I'll break the launchers into two groups, usually with EM in the first group and kinetic in the second. Fire EM first, and followed by the kinetic later. depending on you ship, you can deal more efficient damage by punching through the shield's EM hole instantly and not waist your kinetic bonus against something it's designed to defend against.
Otherwise, I second the massive glowing ball of damage. =)
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Tau Dades
Caldari Even End of the Universe
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Posted - 2009.12.31 17:22:00 -
[17]
I like to keep two groupings of my weapons, whether turrets or launchers. 2 are easy enough to apply quickly to larger targets or for pvp. and it still gives flexibility to engage multiple smaller targets in pve.
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Patri Andari
Thukker Tribe Antiquities Importer
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Posted - 2009.12.31 19:08:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Patri Andari on 31/12/2009 19:09:32
Originally by: Artemis Rose Group them before you lose your sanity pressing f1-f8
There is no f8 for missiles, unless you have a State Issue Raven. :P
In theory (PVE):
If the target has low enough HP to alpha into near 50% armor, 1 big group is better. If it is less susceptible to alpha and has a high repair rate or high resistance, then smaller groups with steady damage works better.
In practice:
In my Nighthawk I use 3 groups of 2. For battle cruisers, regular cruisers and regular frigs I fire (f1-f3) simultaneously as if one group. Alpha is enough to insta-pop most frigs, put cruisers in structure and get to the white meat of a battle cruiser's armor.
For elite frigs (if my drones take too long) Hacs and Battleships, I time the groups to have sustained damage that overcomes the repair rate. f1...f2...f3.
By having 3 groups I can simulate both alpha and sustained damage without having to change my setup so it is more flexible.
Works for me.
Hope this helps
Patri
I'll Roshambo you for that Titan |
Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.12.31 19:34:00 -
[19]
For missile users going to be shooting Rachen or other defender happy rats, try shooting in single group or totally ungrouped (maintain 40-50 km distance). Count the number of salvos to drop its tanking layer (shield for Rachen) for each case. Wait for it to recharge fully and repeat about 5 times.
When I tried this on the 2.5mil rat in Sansha Vengeance: 6 in a group, 1 group : 16 to drop armor (2 samples) 1 in a group, 6 groups: 23 to drop armor (1 sample)
What is this time flux thing? |
Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2009.12.31 19:40:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sandeep For missile users going to be shooting Rachen or other defender happy rats, try shooting in single group or totally ungrouped (maintain 40-50 km distance). Count the number of salvos to drop its tanking layer (shield for Rachen) for each case. Wait for it to recharge fully and repeat about 5 times.
When I tried this on the 2.5mil rat in Sansha Vengeance: 6 in a group, 1 group : 16 to drop armor (2 samples) 1 in a group, 6 groups: 23 to drop armor (1 sample)
Great info - just to confirm what you mean, it took 7 fewer volleys to take him to armor when grouping your missiles?
-Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org |
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Sandeep
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Posted - 2009.12.31 19:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Great info - just to confirm what you mean, it took 7 fewer volleys to take him to armor when grouping your missiles?
-Liang
Yes. I'd like to repeat another sample for ungrouped, but the rat blew up.
What is this time flux thing? |
Sandeep
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Posted - 2010.01.01 06:21:00 -
[22]
I just did some testing on sisi by shooting at Concord billboard in low sec. The billboard has 100% defender chance so it's simpler math.
5 missiles in a group, one group total: One defender fired per group. Four missiles worth of damage applied.
1 missile in a group, 5 groups total (i.e. totally ungrouped): 5 defenders fired, no missile reached the target.
I also tried other combinations, and the results were consistent. It's always 1 defender per group.
Thus, for shooting defender happy rats, group them all.
btw.. sentry guns didn't shoot
What is this time flux thing? |
Theac Osiris
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Posted - 2010.01.01 06:42:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Theac Osiris on 01/01/2010 06:43:58 I tend to group my weapons into two groups, usually fired at the same target unless I know it'll go down with just one group. At level 2 (couple days yet till I get my Drake, probably about a week or two until it's L4-worthy), Defenders aren't a big concern, but alpha actually does matter, although it's secondary to pure DPS.
A one-shotted rat can't rep, if you can entirely destroy their main tanking layer you can bleed through below even if they completely rep before your next volley. It also helps against shield regeneration, as a steady "beam" of damage would be slowly pushed towards 33%, while a more quantized, high-alpha damage source would jerk across 33%, reducing their overall recharge. Short version, a weapon with high alpha might not do more DPS, but the character of the damage is better suited to crack a tank.
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