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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:10:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Odilon Raennere on 03/01/2010 01:18:22 Yes, your ships DO have crews.
The starships depicted in EVE Online vary in size greatly from relatively tiny shuttles up to gargantuan dreadnoughts and titans. Space stations are even larger still. The human population that lives in space is vast, far greater in number than the elite class of capsuleers to which all EVE players belong. We do not see direct representations of that larger population, however, beyond passing interactions with NPC corporation agents and some trivial in-game items like "Tourists" and "Militants".
According to the game world fiction, NPC ships are almost universally piloted by non-capsuleers using "old school" controls. In addition to pilots, those ships also have crews who operate and maintain their systems. Space stations are populated by (tens of) thousands of station personnel, ground crews, residents, guests, and transients. And most importantly...
Capsuleer ships also have crews.
Let's say that again. Your ships have crewmembers on board in addition to yourself, tucked away safe in your goo-filled pod as you are.
This chronicle depicts the interaction of a capsuleer pilot and a potential crewmember.
Not all such interactions need be or are so businesslike and ultimately hollow as the one depicted in that chronicle. How you choose to imagine or depict in writing/art the relationship between capsuleers and the crews they still need to effectively operate starships is up to you. There are, of course, some important elements of the game world fiction to consider when looking at this aspect of the EVE universe:
You, as a capsuleer, are effectively immortal while in the pod. Crewmembers are not. When ships are destroyed, crews perish. Crew escape devices may be present on some ships, although in Amarr culture it is considered an honor to die in combat. Are there escape routes for the crew on your ship? How does your character react when crew are lost in battle? That is up to how you imagine it.
Large ships require more crew. Frigates are generally thought to be manageable by a single capsuleer pilot alone or with the aid of only one or a few crewmembers. There is no clearly established spectrum of crew size for ships larger than frigates, although supercapitals are usually depicted as having several thousand crewmembers. It will suffice to say that if you depict an Apocalypse battleship that needs only a capsuleer pilot and one loyal space janitor to operate, your story/RP/whatever will be that bit less congruent with the prime fiction and that bit less "believable".
Starships are large. This is worth mentioning because the actual in-game models of the ships can sometimes misrepresent their "true" scale. A Rifter frigate, for example, is comparable in size to a Boeing 747 airliner. Scale your imagination of starship interiors/cargo/passenger/crew space according to that. This image depicts the relative sizes of virtually all EVE starships as of Apocrypha. Find the Rifter and then think "747". Look at the other ships. They big.
Unprotected crew experience spaceflight differently than capsuleers. Inside a pod, a capsuleer is shielded against the forces of rapid acceleration, direction change, and warp/gate travel. Without that protection, humans taking part in FTL travel become uncomfortable at first, but then sicken as more jumps are made in quick succession. They can even suffer debilitating injury if not accustomed to such forces.
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:16:00 -
[2]
Usually, capsuleers cannot leave the pod while under way nor control a starship outside of the pod. We get out of the pod and the ship when docked at stations all the time, although this has not yet been represented in-game. Incarna, when it finally comes, will do this.
Capsuleer pilots can interact with others aboard their ship while in the pod. How they do so (by voice, by holographic projection, by visual read-outs) or not is up to how you imagine it. We can install any number of modules on our ships to accomplish different things. We could just as easily install any variety of internal communications.
People have fundamental needs. Although the EVE universe is set in the far future when interstellar civilizations span thousands of light years, people still need to eat, sleep, feel safe, and be fulfilled. Your crewmembers, being people, have these needs. How they are met is entirely up to you.
And that repeats, yet again, the fundamental message of this thread: ships have crews, but since they are not depicted in-game nor discussed in any hard, limiting detail in EVE "canon" you are free to imagine how your ships are crewed and how you interact with your crews.
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CPP Ginger or other empowered mod, I request that this thread be stickied so we can hopefully put to bed the daily/weekly barrage of "do ships have crews?" threads in this forum. Everyone else, help me improve this thread. If you have links to chronicles, fan-fic, or other material related to EVE starship crews, please post a reply and I'll aggregate the links at the top of the thread. Thanks!
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:21:00 -
[3]
Reserved. |
Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:27:00 -
[4]
Reserved. |
Sneak Lemming
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Posted - 2010.01.03 06:06:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sneak Lemming on 03/01/2010 06:07:07 hmm cool thread. Almost makes me want to do a quicky short story about life onboard a 0.0 ship. This would make a cool sticky also. +1
EDIT: the shipchart img isnt working btw |
Allihence
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.03 06:12:00 -
[6]
here's some older threads where this has been discussed (missing the recent ones): http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=911750 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=450564 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=756385 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=731188 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=645482 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=615004 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=979591
capital ship crew count thread: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=538888
ship Design Schematics: http://www.eve-chatsubo.com/viewtopic.php?t=3875&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=crew
Ship crews in alliance tournament news article: http://myeve.eve-online.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=1778&tid=7
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 06:33:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Odilon Raennere on 03/01/2010 06:34:55
Originally by: Allihence links
Oh, fantastic links! Thank you.
Originally by: Sneak Lemming the shipchart img isnt working btw
Weird. It's a huge file, but comes up without issue on my system... Anybody else who can't see it, LMK |
Magnus Nordir
Caldari Nordir Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.03 08:56:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Sneak Lemming Edited by: Sneak Lemming on 03/01/2010 06:07:07 hmm cool thread. Almost makes me want to do a quicky short story about life onboard a 0.0 ship. This would make a cool sticky also. +1
EDIT: the shipchart img isnt working btw
It's an 10800*5250 image, might just be your browser acting up. Works for me. --------------------------- Only those who surrender are lost |
Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.03 13:41:00 -
[9]
I was actually in the process of writing up a quite long Ships and Crew thread.
Looks like I was beaten to the punch.
Good stuff
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:01:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Verone I was actually in the process of writing up a quite long Ships and Crew thread.
Please don't let me preempt you, Verone! If you post the content elsewhere, say on the Veto forums, I could link it in the top posts here. |
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Zeredek
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:19:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Odilon Raennere How does your character react when crew are lost in battle?
According to the Empyrean Age novel, Capsuleers don't give a **** about the crews
Zeredek Gallente Federation
Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
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Brigitte Helm
Minmatar Native Freshfood
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:21:00 -
[12]
Here is a more interesting question... What do the crew do ? Hug a Carebear, Kill a pirate, squish a Rat, and tickle a dev.
Make Eve fun.... |
Zeredek
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:26:00 -
[13]
And can the crew be composed of drones?
Zeredek Gallente Federation
Originally by: Rolk Anderson Words cannot describe the hatred I feel for you Zeredek.
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:35:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Brigitte Helm Here is a more interesting question... What do the crew do ?
In this story, posted above already, the crew are depicted as "sealing off compartments, fighting electrical fires and desperately struggling to keep his ship's vital systems functioning" after an engagement. Typical sci-fi crew stuff. One jumping-off point for thinking about answers to your question is to imagine that every module fitted on a ship includes a compliment of crew (appropriate to the ship's size) to operate its less cerebral, grunt-work functions. The crew in the linked story would be part of the capsuleer's "Damage Control II". That's how I think about it. How about you?
Originally by: Zeredek And can the crew be composed of drones?
What do you think? There is probably a much higher proportion of automation and drone-managed functions on Gallente ships than others. |
Esna Pitoojee
Amarr TalCorp Enterprises
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Posted - 2010.01.03 18:04:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Zeredek
Originally by: Odilon Raennere How does your character react when crew are lost in battle?
According to the Empyrean Age novel, Capsuleers don't give a **** about the crews
Some might not. If you are a deep-nullsec pilot who loses battleships on a weekly (or daily) basis, you probably aren't forming relationships with those ships' crews. If you are a mission runner who has been in the same mission boat for the last few months, it is inevitable you get to know your crew to some degree.
Originally by: Zeredek And can the crew be composed of drones?
I see two reasons to say that while a crew may be assisted by automated functions, they would not be completely supplanted by them.
1. AI is fallible. It likely always will be.
2. An attempt to create an AI-only ship led to the Rogue Drones. People in EVE are spectacularly suspicious of "smart" AIs as a response, regulation and control of such being one of the few things all the empires agree on. ----------------------------------------------
Say "Amarr ships suk, lol." I dare you.
My statments do not represent the opinions, views, or actions of my corp. |
Alexeph Stoekai
Stoekai Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.03 18:52:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Zeredek And can the crew be composed of drones?
If it was it would be an automated ship, not a crewed one.
So no. -----
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Thgil Goldcore
Amarr Beyond Uprising
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Posted - 2010.01.04 08:01:00 -
[17]
Sticky please, When I posted my thread there wasnt any crew posts for a few pages, but god your right it is brought up all the time *sheepish*
Anyway, I just finished reading Empyrean Age (good read too) and its clear ships have crew, although one thing that left me with a question is the science ship used by the eve gate, the Significance. She is described as a rather large and complex ship, although, unless I read wrong the ship was mostly piloted by only marcus and there is no mention of other crew on board.
In addition the Significance is described to be a cross capsule variant. This allows people in pods to get in and out on the fly and I'm assuming the same goes for the pilot, Marcus. I'm assuming that this setup is very rare, if not unique, but does anyone know more on how that works? Or can help clarify some finer points on the significance (Parts I may have missed while I read)
Thanks!
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.04 14:29:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Thgil Goldcore I just finished reading Empyrean Age (good read too) and its clear ships have crew ... In addition the Significance is described to be a cross capsule variant.
TongG wrote about a number of things in EA that we rarely get any deeper material on, but some of his depictions were a bit too... inventive(?) for me. The cross-capsule variant Amarr science ship was definitely a one-of-a-kind or at least a very, very rare type of ship. Of course TongG is an authorized creator of canon, for what that's worth. The Burning Life should give us yet more with which to work.
Thanks for your +1! |
Geldar Wroontik
Gallente Galactic System Lords Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.05 01:11:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Thgil Goldcore Sticky please, When I posted my thread there wasnt any crew posts for a few pages, but god your right it is brought up all the time *sheepish*
Anyway, I just finished reading Empyrean Age (good read too) and its clear ships have crew, although one thing that left me with a question is the science ship used by the eve gate, the Significance. She is described as a rather large and complex ship, although, unless I read wrong the ship was mostly piloted by only marcus and there is no mention of other crew on board.
In addition the Significance is described to be a cross capsule variant. This allows people in pods to get in and out on the fly and I'm assuming the same goes for the pilot, Marcus. I'm assuming that this setup is very rare, if not unique, but does anyone know more on how that works? Or can help clarify some finer points on the significance (Parts I may have missed while I read)
Thanks!
From the novel:
Quote: Despite being nearly a kilometer in length, the research vessel had a crew of exactly one - Marcus - who was assisted by drones and the ship's AI.
I think it's also explained that he prefers working with drones given that he's a scientist, but I couldn't find anywhere that says it specifically, so I may be imagining things.
But yeah, the "crew" is the ship's AI and some drones, and he's the only living crew onboard.
----- Blasters: enough Ammunition: plenty Bubblegum: none |
Thgil Goldcore
Amarr Beyond Uprising
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:10:00 -
[20]
Thanks for the line from the book. I thought there was a line like that, but I was too lazy to find it.
Although this brings up another question, why isnt he comcorded then? I was under the impression that such advanced drones that could run a ship like that would be illegal. I guess if he spends all his life by the eve gate it wouldn't be much of a worry, but he does come into empire space for a time. I'm likely thinking far too far into it, but thats what nerds like me do. obsess over obscure pieces of canon for the littlest of issues... cant tell I wasnt a treky (err... trecker) in a past life can ya? |
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Vinoda
Gallente The Soul Society Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.08 17:19:00 -
[21]
I wonder: Can the crew be your own clones?
Each clone is modified so that they can only take care of one thing at a time, more complicated clones can fix stuff and interact with passengers adn some of the drones in ship. When docking they cannot leave the ship for they have a trigger in their head that kills them if they ever step out, as such, COPR is fine with it.
So in a way YOU are the one actually commanding the ship. SAVE those who are defenseless and innocent... KILL EVERYONE ELSE!
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Thgil Goldcore
Amarr Beyond Uprising
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Posted - 2010.01.08 18:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Vinoda I wonder: Can the crew be your own clones?
Each clone is modified so that they can only take care of one thing at a time, more complicated clones can fix stuff and interact with passengers adn some of the drones in ship. When docking they cannot leave the ship for they have a trigger in their head that kills them if they ever step out, as such, COPR is fine with it.
So in a way YOU are the one actually commanding the ship.
No, its not a good idea to have more than one of yourself active at the same time. Aside from the fact that it is illegal by comcord, running multiple clones of yourself at the same time is extremely dangerous and the mind is not able to take the stress very well (theres a chronicle about it I think). much less having hundreds of yourself at the same time. Besides, a clone army of yourself wouldn't have the specialties to handle every diverse task that a starship requires, even if they didn't share concenceness with you.
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.08 22:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Vinoda I wonder: Can the crew be your own clones?
Good exploratory thought. Cloning in EVE is a means to survive death and isn't usually used to create copies of oneself. As stated above already that's considered illegal (highly illegal) under CONCORD law. The important distinction here is that your clones aren't controlled directly by your mind. If created somehow, they would be free-thinking and acting copies of yourself, not mind-slaved drones... unless you're some Sansha groupie
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Himnos Altar
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.11 09:45:00 -
[24]
there's now a baseline for Battleships that you must have missed. it's at the end of one of the Chronicles you posted.
The Apocalypse has at least 6,314 crewmen.
note that it only says "reported casualties"
there may have been survivors/unreporteds, etc
Quote: Four months later, Daren Athaksis was confirmed as one of six-thousand three-hundred and fourteen reported casualties resulting from the destruction of the Apocalypse-class battleship "Dam-Imud." His post was filled within three days. His family was not notified.
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.11 10:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Himnos Altar there's now a baseline for Battleships that you must have missed.
Good that you caught that, but there have been many conflicting numbers given for crew compliments. In Empyrean Age, for example, TonyG describes a Nyx-class supercarrier as having a crew of only just over 2000, and a Nyx is much larger than an Apocalypse with several additional very complex subsystems. Which account is more "accurate"? What about later in the book when he described the "cross-capsule" variant battleship with only the capsuleer pilot on board? I suppose the number of crew would vary with the degree of automation aboard a ship.
I think the important point, as I tried to make in the original post, is that prime fiction examples of crew numbers should be taken as just that -- examples. Use them as a jumping off point for your own writing or simply your imagining of the universe, but don't burden yourself by thinking that every Apocalypse has at least 6314 souls and one capsuleer on board.
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Galius Zed
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Posted - 2010.01.11 21:31:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Odilon Raennere
Originally by: Himnos Altar there's now a baseline for Battleships that you must have missed.
Good that you caught that, but there have been many conflicting numbers given for crew compliments. In Empyrean Age, for example, TonyG describes a Nyx-class supercarrier as having a crew of only just over 2000, and a Nyx is much larger than an Apocalypse with several additional very complex subsystems. Which account is more "accurate"? What about later in the book when he described the "cross-capsule" variant battleship with only the capsuleer pilot on board? I suppose the number of crew would vary with the degree of automation aboard a ship.
I think the important point, as I tried to make in the original post, is that prime fiction examples of crew numbers should be taken as just that -- examples. Use them as a jumping off point for your own writing or simply your imagining of the universe, but don't burden yourself by thinking that every Apocalypse has at least 6314 souls and one capsuleer on board.
EVEMon shows "maxPassengers" attribute (within System category) for ships.
This is not the exact same as "crew" but interesting that the value is there. They look to be fairly uniform and consistent across hull types and seems to be faction-agnostic.
Perhaps this number can somehow correlate to actual crew??
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.12 01:54:00 -
[27]
I have seen that as well Galius, but it seems to have no in-game bearing whatsoever. Perhaps you could interpret it as the vessel's ideal life support capacity? maxPassengers = "This number of human beings can be sustained for an indefinite period by the ship's atmospheric, water, ration, and rest systems." If we're ever ferrying DUST514 soldiers or some manner of passengers other than "Tourists" aboard our ships in the future, it may come into play then.
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Vinoda
Gallente The Soul Society Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.15 08:23:00 -
[28]
Ok, more questions/theories:
1) Can more than one capsuleer be inside a ship, maybe as passengers yes, but could they be controlling the ship simutaneously? They could be like co-Captains and would be very usefull on really big ships. Or would that conflict?
2) Is there a limit to the number of escape pods in a ship? as in everyone knows that when the fire starts only a set number of people are going to be saved (which would make a lot of the crew population instantly less because of fights) Are there special pods for high ranking crew members like officers, liutenants or generals?
3)Can capsuleers have sex? I like to imagine my own character as being in two places, his body on his capsule while an advance holoprojector makes him appear and walk around the ship and interact with the crew like a captain would do. Ok, maybe this is for another post but lets say a capsuleer can fall in love, since they probably are clones, can they have sex and bear children or is that more reserved for more advanced clones?
4) If a child is born on a ship, what should appear on his birth certificate? SAVE those who are defenseless and innocent... KILL EVERYONE ELSE!
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Odilon Raennere
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Posted - 2010.01.15 14:16:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Vinoda Ok, more questions/theories
Lots of good questions. I can only offer my own take on them, and hopefully some others will able to provide deeper, alternative responses to you.
1) I'm going to say no. Check out these articles.
2) No reason for there to be a limit beyond what you can depict effectively. It would take many lifeboats to save the entire crew compliment of a battleship or larger class ship. Since this isn't something we actually see in-game, you can imagine it however you want. Maybe a capsuleer provides an escape system for his senior officers, but the rest of the crew are just fed some story about escape pods that aren't really there. Or everyone on board could hunger for a glorious death in combat with their ultimate survival or sacrifice being up to God's will as I imagine most Amarr crews do.
3) Again, there's no reason why not. TonyG depicts capsuleers going at it in Empyrean Age. As you'll find in the same collection of scientific articles I linked above, regarding a capsuleer's clone, "[t]his body is complete in every sense, with fully functioning organs and peripheral neural system."
4) Assuming records of that sort are kept, who knows... A newborn would probably be considered to have been born in the territory of the political entity in which the ship was registered.
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Vinoda
Gallente The Soul Society Pax Romana Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.16 07:47:00 -
[30]
4) Assuming records of that sort are kept, who knows... A newborn would probably be considered to have been born in the territory of the political entity in which the ship was registered.
That question was a joke but thanks anywhays. SAVE those who are defenseless and innocent... KILL EVERYONE ELSE!
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