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Juwi Kotch
Fiat Iustitia
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Posted - 2010.01.03 23:12:00 -
[1]
I propose a bounty system for EVE, which cannot be abused and will make revenge for being killed by pirates possible for any victim.
1. A bounty can only be assigned to a pilot who is on the kill list of the bounty assigning pilot, thus by a pilot who was killed by one or more other pilot(s).
2. The bounty assigning pilot adds a bounty to those pilot(s) on his kill list he wants to be hunted down, with a minimum of 10 mil ISK per pilot.
3. This bounty will be converted into a public contract, using the existing contract system.
4. Any bounty hunter can accept the contract, with a collateral of 1 mio ISK.
5. There will be a Bounty Hunter License (social skill, rank 5 or higher) with Fast Talk at lvl 5 as a prerequisite, and the ability to accept 1 active bounty per skill level.
6. The acceptance of the contract (and the payment of the collateral) will become valid only if the bounty offering pilot again positivly acknowledges the acceptance of the bounty contract by the bounty hunter.
7. The contract, if accepted, will be valid only for the one bounty as contract, not for all bounties of the target pilot. Thus, there can be more then one bounty contract per pilot on the market.
8. The bounty hunter can then hunt without Concord interference in all systems, will get the bounty he has offered to collect, if successful, plus the collateral.
9. The bounty hunter will have one week to fulfil the contract, otherwise it will be nullified and the collateral will go to the bounty assigning contractor.
10. The contract is open, public and acceptable anytime until the bounty is collected, meaning that multiple bounty hunters can accept it, but only the one(s) on the killmail will collect the collateral. When more then one bounty hunter is on the killmail, all will get an equal share of the bounty.
With this system a profession of bounty hunters will introduced to the game, and offer a non-criminal way for PvPers to earn ISK while PvPing for the justice side. It will make pirating much more risky, and will not be able to be abused, because only pilotes who have managed to deliver killrights to a pilot they have attacked can be loaded with a bounty, and only pilots who have invested in being skilled and have the acceptance by the bounty assigner can collect the bounty.
Support the Bounty Hunter Profession! |
Jenna Sol
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Posted - 2010.01.04 00:49:00 -
[2]
What if the bounty just logs off for an entire week?
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.01.04 04:06:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Jenna Sol What if the bounty just logs off for an entire week?
More relevantly, what happens if the bounty accepts the contract with an alt, and then kills himself in a shuttle?
It's not a bad plan, but it's not nearly complete enough to be taken forward. Step back, think through all the problems(maybe with some friends/random forumers helping), and then take it up again.
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Mister Xerox
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Posted - 2010.01.04 04:23:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Jenna Sol What if the bounty just logs off for an entire week?
More relevantly, what happens if the bounty accepts the contract with an alt, and then kills himself in a shuttle?
It's not a bad plan, but it's not nearly complete enough to be taken forward. Step back, think through all the problems(maybe with some friends/random forumers helping), and then take it up again.
The payout would be the default insurance value of the ship destroyed to avoid this possible exploit. This is deducted from the payout (if any) received by the destroyed target. This financial approach will prompt bounties to avoid being hunted down and shot for any reason, even if it's in nothing more than a shuttle.
This continues until the entire bounty has been acquired. To avoid exploitive use of alt-podding a useless clone the maximum payout for a pod kill is the value of updating the clone (deducted from the bounty, not the pilot).
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.01.04 05:19:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Mister Xerox The payout would be the default insurance value of the ship destroyed to avoid this possible exploit. This is deducted from the payout (if any) received by the destroyed target. This financial approach will prompt bounties to avoid being hunted down and shot for any reason, even if it's in nothing more than a shuttle.
This continues until the entire bounty has been acquired. To avoid exploitive use of alt-podding a useless clone the maximum payout for a pod kill is the value of updating the clone (deducted from the bounty, not the pilot).
Now this is what I meant by random forumers making it a more complete proposal. This makes the proposal work far better, and even if there are holes(HACs should pay out more than 3 mil), it still makes this thread dramatically better.
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Juwi Kotch
Fiat Iustitia
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Posted - 2010.01.04 20:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Juwi Kotch on 04/01/2010 20:51:53
Yes, that is in fact a good improvement. I want to initiate something that true bounty hunting will become possible in this universe, and if others contribute to a system which allows such, even the better.
I'll add this payout scheme as proposed by Mister Xerox to my proposal.
Support the Bounty Hunter Profession! |
Juwi Kotch
Fiat Iustitia
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Posted - 2010.01.04 20:57:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Jenna Sol What if the bounty just logs off for an entire week?
This would stop the pirate to kill other innocents for a whole week. But I would not object to skip this requirement, or to lengthen the amount of time mentioned.
Support the Bounty Hunter Profession! |
Albion Stormchaser
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Posted - 2010.01.04 22:28:00 -
[8]
As there is already a bounty office, why not allow players to go and pick up the 'Contract' from the Bounty office, much like a normal bounty hunter would do, this way the 'Target' wouldnt know whether a contract has been taken out on him or who has taken that contract.
It would also allow a multiple people to hunt the same Target leading to competition within the profession, the first one to get the pod kill and deliver the corpse to the nearest bounty office completes said contract.
The contract would also act as a way to stop concord intervening, providing you are attacking the Target on the contract. Remote reps and others would still be subject to normal flagging mechanics
On completion of the contract, all other Bounty hunters that have taken a contract on that Target are informed by eve mail to say the contract has been fulfilled, to prevent them wasting time.
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Paknac Queltel
Standards and Practices
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Posted - 2010.01.04 23:00:00 -
[9]
So, the bounty hunter would get 40% baseprice per ship killed, until the entire bounty's collected?
To collect a 10 mil bounty on someone who flies only frigates for the duration of the bounty, I'd need to get around 100 kills?
If there are 5 contracts out on a target, could I accept all 5? Would I get 200% baseprice per kill?
As target, could I keep an alt around to shoot at me once the hunter comes, and have it take part of the bounty?
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yani dumyat
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2010.01.05 02:46:00 -
[10]
Not sure about the specifics of this iteration but but tradeable kill rights and a proper bounty hunting mechanism have been asked for for many years, if there's a profession that's uber cool then this one wears sunglasses at night.
I wish you the best of luck in getting CCP to introduce something that many people would enjoy. _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human |
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.05 05:12:00 -
[11]
What's to stop some high sec greifer using an alt to place a bounty on some hapless miner in order to harass them in high sec without concord or corporation interference? -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2010.01.05 06:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Jin Nib What's to stop some high sec greifer using an alt to place a bounty on some hapless miner in order to harass them in high sec without concord or corporation interference?
1. A bounty can only be assigned to a pilot who is on the kill list of the bounty assigning pilot, thus by a pilot who was killed by one or more other pilot(s).
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.05 07:26:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Jin Nib What's to stop some high sec greifer using an alt to place a bounty on some hapless miner in order to harass them in high sec without concord or corporation interference?
1. A bounty can only be assigned to a pilot who is on the kill list of the bounty assigning pilot, thus by a pilot who was killed by one or more other pilot(s).
-Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.01.05 07:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Pesets on 05/01/2010 07:50:03 You should only be able to place bounty if you were killed by someone who did not have the rights to shoot you (much like kill rights works currently). I'm not so sure about "no shooting back" though, especially because that way stupid things like drone auto-aggro would void your right to post the bounty.
Also, i would suggest that the bounty target should simply be flagged to all bounty hunters (i personally would propose flagging towards all militia members, but just bounty hunters work too i guess - as long as you don't have to join some NPC corp or pseudo-alliance to become one). I'm not sure how much sense it makes to train Fast Talk V to become a bounty hunter (especially as it's a "pirate skill" - its primary function is making recovering sec status easier), but hell, if that's what it takes...
Exclusive contracts as proposed would defeat the whole affair, because the pirate can just buy out his own contracts - and also because the bounty hunter would have to go solo against the usual crapton of neutral repper BS.
I can't yet propose anything better than the "deduction from insurance" idea (my own proposal is much less elegant); but there may have to be some sort of a limit on the bounty in that case. Otherwise, a noob who as much as fired a shot at the victim, and ends up with multimillion bounty as a result, likely won't live to ever see it cleared off his dumb posterior.
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Lana Torrin
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:02:00 -
[15]
I haven't read the OP and I wont now. I'm 100% against this idea ever seeing the light of day because the OP cross posted this in to every forum I read. (Plus I had a better idea, and I know this without reading the OP)
What happened to my AF boost? |
Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.01.05 08:20:00 -
[16]
Any place to see your idea?
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Marcus Gideon
Federal Defense Operations
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Posted - 2010.01.05 13:42:00 -
[17]
I think with a bit more constructive input from the community, this could be the way to do Bounty Hunters. |
Calkota
Retribution. Inc. E-P-O-C-H
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Posted - 2010.01.05 14:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Calkota on 05/01/2010 14:23:46 Too convoluted and messy.
You have to get Fast Talk V. 4x skill which means a 20 day train. How many combat pilots have any points in charisma that you know of?
Then you have to train a 5x skill one bounty for each skill. Then hope that the 1-3 bounties that you picked up are online at the time, not docked up, at a POS, Etc.
As posted above, what if they fly a frig? Nah nobody flies a rifter. What if it is a T2 ship? I get 2-3m for killing an assault frigate? 5-10m for killing a HAC/Strategic Cruiser?
Don't bring a friend though, that will cut your (already very poor) profits in half. The risk vs. reward on this is completely out of proportion.
TLDR; Train for 20+ days to get a shot at risking a 50 mil+ ship for a gain of a couple million. Where do I sign up?
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperium Technologies
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Posted - 2010.01.05 15:20:00 -
[19]
We need either a fixed payout for the pod, or a payout depending on implants destroyed. Ofcource, t2/t3 ships need to pay out properly, and not their insurance values. This proposal goes way further then vast majority of what i have seen on the forum, and even though their are some holes,it is well worth discussing and being brought up. We also need the timeframe to be established by the person that is giving out the bounty contract, maybe i whant to put 1 bill on his ass and have him hunted for a year? We also need to allow corporation to accept the contracts. Does a random person killing him in low-null-sec get payed out as par of the bounty? Or maybe the guy that orders the bounty can choose percentage payout from 1 to 1000% of the ship's value, and can choose what ships he whants to pay out for. Maybe he does not whant to pay out for any t1 ships, pods and shuttles. Maybe he whants the guy's carrrier to be killed, then the onoly ship he will select is a carrier, and entire bounty will be given out at that point? Anyway, support.
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Comari Vokha
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Posted - 2010.01.05 16:03:00 -
[20]
Bounty hunting is one of the coolest things that set EVE apart from other games and a proper system to make it an official and legitimate profession would put EVE yet another mile ahead of everyone else.
In EVE you have the right to be as nefarious or as carebear as you want so long as you are willing to deal with the consequences, this has been CCP's attitude on most EVE related matters over the years time and time again. CCP does not want to disallow something, there just has to be consequences to your actions, and this fits in perfectly with that.
This is one way to "help the helpless" and empower newer players who are less than pvp experts (usualy need to be to kill someone who hunts for fun, gate campers excluded) and would give all the grieffers something to do (either working together on bounties or hunt each other) and thus result in less bored grieffing of newer players and bored grieffers making money grieffing, correct me if I'm wrong but thats a win/win/win. Olders players are happy, newer players get some sort of resolve for crimes commited, CCP gets more newer players sticking around.
Support this and whatever comes of it.
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Syringe
Incura HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.05 16:52:00 -
[21]
Not supported.
The idea of renovating the bounty system is an old one. With the understanding that this implementation needs more fleshing out, it seems like a proposal that will get torpedoed by the "What if this happens?" crowd.
That and your post in C&P was trolly and wasted CPU cycles. --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question. |
Juwi Kotch
Fiat Iustitia
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Posted - 2010.01.05 21:08:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lana Torrin I haven't read the OP and I wont now. I'm 100% against this idea ever seeing the light of day because the OP cross posted this in to every forum I read. (Plus I had a better idea, and I know this without reading the OP)
I have put a link to this post into my signature to promote it. That is, as far as I know, not cross-posting. I have explicitly posted an information about this proposal in the Crime and Punishment board, because the pilots frequenting it would be affected the most by it. I have not posted just one sentence of my OP at some other place, so no cross posting again.
I can only guess why you don't like this proposal ...
Support the Bounty Hunter Profession! |
Juwi Kotch
Fiat Iustitia
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Posted - 2010.01.05 21:14:00 -
[23]
Thank you all for your support so far. I'm fully aware, that I cannot provide a complete and loophole free idea, I just try to propose something which includes as much as I think needs to be included to make bounty hunting workable and unabusable.
As we have already seen here, together with others this can turn out to become a good enough idea to get it on the table of the CSM, and probably to find a CCP DEV to make it happen.
That pirates don't like it, is only natural.
Support the Bounty Hunter Profession! |
Albion Stormchaser
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Posted - 2010.01.05 22:14:00 -
[24]
I forgot to support this when i posted.
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nchek maroot
tlhlnag wo
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Posted - 2010.01.05 23:28:00 -
[25]
I like the idea of bounty hunting being a viable profession, I would go as far as suggest that completing bounty contracts would also provide a small security status boost much like killing NPC pirates.
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Marlona Sky
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.05 23:47:00 -
[26]
I have an idea linked here.
It needs work but maybe some of it along with those of the OP and several other post popping up here and there, we can come up with a solution.
Also ignore the emo IT guy who is narrow minded to my post.
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Miss Granger
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
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Posted - 2010.01.07 12:44:00 -
[27]
Needs the details to be tight to avoid scamming and of course the risk vs. reward needs to be balanced, but in general I like this. |
Hogun Rath
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Posted - 2010.01.07 20:21:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
1. A bounty can only be assigned to a pilot who is on the kill list of the bounty assigning pilot, thus by a pilot who was killed by one or more other pilot(s).
What happens if someone wants to put a bounty on ppl who shoot at a POS? The owning corp/alliance should have some means to facilitate a bounty contract on ppl killing the POS.
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
4. Any bounty hunter can accept the contract, with a collateral of 1 mio ISK.
When does the bounty hunter get back the collateral? After one succesfull kill or after the whole bounty amount is claimed?
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
6. The acceptance of the contract (and the payment of the collateral) will become valid only if the bounty offering pilot again positivly acknowledges the acceptance of the bounty contract by the bounty hunter.
This will complicate things and slow down the flow of business.
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
7. The contract, if accepted, will be valid only for the one bounty as contracted, not for all bounties on the target pilot. Thus, there can be more then one bounty contract per pilot on the market.
So with high enough skills a hunter can have multiple live contracts on a single target and claim a multiplicative amount after each kill?
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
9. The bounty hunter will have one week to fulfil the contract, otherwise it will be nullified and the collateral will go to the bounty assigning contractor.
So one character gets killed a few times and puts up bounty contracts, if there is enough collateral in then the target just docks up for one week and they keep the collateral?
Originally by: Juwi Kotch
10. The payout would be the default insurance value of the ship destroyed to avoid any possible exploit. This is deducted from the payout (if any) received by the destroyed target. This continues until the entire bounty has been acquired.
Great ISK sink. The money is taken from the bounty contract instead of the Insurance corp. CCP will love the idea to withdraw ISK from circulation. So the 10mil one pays to setup a contract is out of economy in that instance. (except if there is a pod kill, but with the fixed 10mil amount you will dry it on the ship kill on almost anything bigger then a cruiser)
Good idea, the details require some work.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.01.07 21:28:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Calkota Edited by: Calkota on 05/01/2010 14:23:46 Too convoluted and messy.
You have to get Fast Talk V. 4x skill which means a 20 day train. How many combat pilots have any points in charisma that you know of?
Then you have to train a 5x skill one bounty for each skill. Then hope that the 1-3 bounties that you picked up are online at the time, not docked up, at a POS, Etc.
As posted above, what if they fly a frig? Nah nobody flies a rifter. What if it is a T2 ship? I get 2-3m for killing an assault frigate? 5-10m for killing a HAC/Strategic Cruiser?
Don't bring a friend though, that will cut your (already very poor) profits in half. The risk vs. reward on this is completely out of proportion.
TLDR; Train for 20+ days to get a shot at risking a 50 mil+ ship for a gain of a couple million. Where do I sign up?
Heh, yeah it DOES fix the abuse of the current systems quite well and it doesn't include complete denial of insurance to those under a bounty as some embittered carebears have been touting around this forum the last few days. So sure, from this perspective i could support it.
Is anyone actually going to take it up ? Well if their motivation is isk, certainly not. A week spent hunting the same guy to get a few cruisers worth of bounty is a very very poor rate of return on the effort put in, let alone the risk so I would say almost nobody would do it for financial gain. If CONCORD sanctioned targets is the motivation, wardecks are more efficient by a very very wide margin.
In short, great solution to the mechanic abuse, but no, nobody is actually going to do it.
/shrug --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Max Torps
Nomadic Conglomerate
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Posted - 2010.01.07 23:23:00 -
[30]
Supported (with adjustment) - and surely that adjustment always comes when it reaches serious discussion and development stage.
Regardless, bounty hunting in Eve can add so much more to the community if done right. Currently it's a joke. This should be brought to the CSM/CCP table for further refinement discussion and I support this wholeheartedly. Eve Instant Messenger - A Call to Arms |
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