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AusKarlos
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Posted - 2010.01.04 07:13:00 -
[1]
I think i have the terminology right. Ive been mining in High-sec ever since i started playing EVE (will venture into low-sec soon), ive been hearing reports about something called "Can Flipping". What i want to know is how is it done and how do you reverse it. I use a standard Jetcan to dump my ore in so my Alt can collect it. I dont leave much in there when my hauler leaves due to the fact the Jetcan is unsafe. I noticed that there was one player jumping from belt to belt with a nice Sec rating of -2.0. Turns out he was looking for jetcans and he found mine. I had no clue what he was going to do but all of a sudden my Jetcan was replaced with "hahaha its mine now". It was funny at first but its getting annoying. How do i reverse what this noob (who is looking for a PvP fight)has done to my can.
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Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.04 07:59:00 -
[2]
Canflipping whines are the FOTM, huh?
Move to another system.
Try mining in mission deadspace.
Get a partner/alt account to haul for you.
Join a corp and get some buddies to lurk in a safe. When he flips your can, warp off and let them raep him.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.01.04 08:47:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 04/01/2010 08:50:57 You can drag and drop a bookmark from your people and places/places tab to your cargo hold, then jettison the bookmark to create the jet can. Then label the can with the time so you know when it will expire (2 hours).
If someone comes into your system, do a Look on them, this will let you see things from their perspective and look at their ship. Move your Point of View around to their stern so you can see where they are going. If they are going for you can, pull the bookmark and pop the can. They will see that you are alert and go bother someone else.
NEVER have anything in the can but the bookmark for any longer than it takes the hauler to pull the ore out of the can the miner has put in it. This should be immediately. You have just experienced the price for leaving ore in the can. If you don't want that to happen again - stop mining - when your hauler is gone and your hold gets full.
As to recovering your ore ... watch the guy and see if he is in system on Local. Then, if he's left the jet can there, snatch the ore out of it and head for your base. Then sit there for 15 minutes while his timer expires.
Mine in a quiet system - and this shouldn't happen.
Also - you can run missions that will have asteroids in them - mining in mission space requires someone to actually scan you down rather than just surfing the belts looking for jet cans as this guy was doing.
Mining in mission space in a quiet system you are generally safe in leaving the ore in the jet can while the hauler goes back and forth. You can bring up your directional scanner if you like and scan for probes. This should alert you if someone is scanning but is mostly not needed in High Sec.
As to going down to low sec - don't go down there to mine. Low Sec exists for the challenge of going down there - not for making money. There's nothing down there that is worth the hassle - unless you are in a corporation that has set up shop there. If you are new and just want to mine and run missions - stay in High Sec.
If you want some PVP experience - then go down there. The trouble is ... if you go down there alone and run into a small gang of gankers ... you're not really going to get experience in anything except watching your ship being destroyed. So going alone is mostly about learning how to run away ... which is valuable experience.
Be aware that the same rules apply in Lo Sec as in High Sec for Security Status hits you will take with Concord. Concord won't blow up your ship - but you will take a Security Hit. If your Security Status gets to low - then you can't go into High Sec at all without getting shot at (unless you are in your pod ... in which case players will shoot you).
Factional Warefare and Red vs. Blue offer relatively easy access to group PVP.
EVE University and Agony Unleashed offer classes in PVP.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.01.04 11:18:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Then label the can with the time so you know when it will expire (2 hours).
I really don't like this idea. It's giving unnecessary extra information away to who ever wants to have some 'fun' with you.
If you absolutely *must* mine in a can, just leave its name the way it is and use your logs from the Neocom to see when you ejected that piece of sorrow.
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NightF0x
Gallente Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2010.01.04 11:26:00 -
[5]
Really there's nothing that you can do to reverse it without flagging yourself and allowing him the opportunity to shoot you. Try training up probing skills and find the hidden sites to mine. I have found some with 10m Tritanium (after refining) and rarely am bothered by anyone other than someone looking for a rat to shoot at. ------------------------------------
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Monva
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Posted - 2010.01.04 11:44:00 -
[6]
What I actually do is to probe a system, find some pirate bases and head over there. If there's a lot of ore there I clear the area of hostiles, then bring my miner out to eat up what there is. It's a little less boring than just clicking on an asteroid belt, you get to do a bit more work and it's kind of an adventure.
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Dani SP
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Posted - 2010.01.04 12:54:00 -
[7]
try getting out of Lonetrek... and no, The Forge is not a much better idea.
if you want to stay in Caldarian moms basement, try doing missions, many of them got ore so you can kill the rats and then grab the miner and clean the site. Notice you should NOT finish the mission (dont talk to agent) otherwise the event will be closed and every object or asteroid is gone.
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Daemonspirit
Redhawk Tribal Trust
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Posted - 2010.01.04 18:18:00 -
[8]
Originally by: AusKarlos I think i have the terminology right. Ive been mining in High-sec ever since i started playing EVE (will venture into low-sec soon), ive been hearing reports about something called "Can Flipping". What i want to know is how is it done and how do you reverse it. I use a standard Jetcan to dump my ore in so my Alt can collect it. I dont leave much in there when my hauler leaves due to the fact the Jetcan is unsafe. I noticed that there was one player jumping from belt to belt with a nice Sec rating of -2.0. Turns out he was looking for jetcans and he found mine. I had no clue what he was going to do but all of a sudden my Jetcan was replaced with "hahaha its mine now". It was funny at first but its getting annoying. How do i reverse what this noob (who is looking for a PvP fight)has done to my can.
What I have had success with is this:
When your can gets flipped, have your hauler warp out to you. move your hauler PAST THE FLIPPED CAN! Turn around so that the can is between HAULER and BASE (that your going to dock into).
Align to the station you want to dock at, before you warp out, you have to reach 75% speed - get to 75%, grab ore, warp to 0 on station.
I make sure that the can flipper has not targeted my hauler alt, because if they have, you can be locked / scrammed before you make the transfer and warp off.
Its also recommended to *not* be concerned if you lose the hauler alts ship. I have done this several times, and gotten off clean each time (flippers aren't always paying as much attention to my hauler alt).
YMMV - don't blame me if you get popped (and occasionally, you will).
On the other hand, you could move... ;)
ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Serrath Maru
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Posted - 2010.01.04 22:48:00 -
[9]
Train anchoring to lvl 1 with your alt and anchor a few giant sec cans in a .8 or lower system, then password protect them. Can flipping problem solved
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Acrid Acid
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Posted - 2010.01.05 01:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Serrath Maru Train anchoring to lvl 1 with your alt and anchor a few giant sec cans in a .8 or lower system, then password protect them. Can flipping problem solved
This... oooooooooooooor...
Ask a friend to drop a can near you. Obviously said friend is in a pvp ship, cloaked or ready to warp in, wait for thief, then BAM... thief goes boom.
Also work with an alt.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.01.05 04:56:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 05/01/2010 05:03:36 Edited by: Toshiro GreyHawk on 05/01/2010 04:59:15
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk Then label the can with the time so you know when it will expire (2 hours).
I really don't like this idea. It's giving unnecessary extra information away to who ever wants to have some 'fun' with you.
If you absolutely *must* mine in a can, just leave its name the way it is and use your logs from the Neocom to see when you ejected that piece of sorrow.
It actually doesn't tell them squat.
So they know what time the can was created. So what? If you've got NO ore in the can - that information is worthless.
Since you can create a new can and consolidate the contents of several other cans into it - the fact that it has a recent time stamp - again - doesn't tell them squat.
As to using your logs - those tell you that you ejected a can - not which one it is. If you have multiple miners using multiple cans while mining in mission space - that is worthless to the hauler dude coming along and emptying the old cans.
Thus - the fact that you can manipulate the apparent amount of ore a can might have can be used against can flippers. You can also put an offset on the time if you want - so long as you know what it is - the can flippers won't.
The thing is ... we're talking about completely different ways of using jet cans here.
The way you use them in belts is not the way you use them in mission space.
Let me put it this way - what you think - is that if the can is an hour old - then it has a lot of ore in it. What I'm saying is that there is no correlation between the age of a particular can and how much ore the miner has left in it. Every 3 minutes you can eject a new can if you want to keep moving your ore to a new one (not that I'm suggesting that).
All in all - I've never had any trouble from can flippers because I named my cans with the time they were created. I have however had cans that were empty but for a book mark pop on me because I wasn't paying attention to how long I'd been using them. If I'd had any ore in that can, which wouldn't have been much - then I'd have lost it.
If you are solo mining in a belt - then - what you're thinking might apply. Here though - the suggestion is to not build up two hours worth of ore in a can but to go fetch your industrial whenever the amount of ore in the can reaches it's capacity.
If you lose an hour and a half's ore - your mistake was NOT that you labeled the can - but that you had an hour and a half's ore in it to lose. Not putting the name on the can will NOT guarantee that can won't be flipped. The vast majority of the people who get can flipped - have not time stamped their cans - so what good did not time stamping them do these people?
Lastly ... if you have the time in the name in the over view - it's right there - you don't have to keep flipping through your logs to see what it was.
Now as to using GSC's as ore transfer points ...
The problem with that - is - a GSC has less capacity than the cargo hold of most mining barges ... so it just won't hold enough ore. Yes - you can constantly be moving ore into them as the hauler dude moves it out - but that gets really tedious. Of course if you really don't mind a lot of mouse work - you can put MLU's in the Low slots of your barge instead of cargo expanders. The thing is there - is that all that exptra mouse work is the kind of thing that makes people hate mining. *shrug*
GSC's work well if you are using a mining cruiser or frigate - but once you move up to mining barges - the only real use they have is in improving the carrying capacity of your haulers.
Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools |
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