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14Kfrack
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Posted - 2010.01.09 21:02:00 -
[1]
When will eve tech's wake up and add into the next patch market-restrictions on those fool's attempting to rip off knowinlgly and continuously overide with full intent to inflate and drive up or just plain rip-off the fair cost of market items!
And When will eve restrict an place sealing cap's that will reject any or all orders of overly exaggerated prices placing ceiling restrictionswith warnings after more than three attempts with temporary ban's for those that so impose themselves in not adhereing to reasonable and fair marketing practices solely intented on just ripping off the meek in order to over inflate fare market pricing as common market pigs...
Who should have been delt with eions ago!
Compleatly disappionted in eve's programing directives 14Kfrack
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Metalcali
Pacific Industrials
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Posted - 2010.01.10 07:45:00 -
[2]
Because you are the one who accepts the order you are the one who accepts the consequences as well. They should not have to implement something because someone doesn't take a moment to ensure the purchase they are making is fair. Also this is a driving reason this game supports, theft. If you want the scammers to drop in numbers, don't fall for them, and encourage others to think with their isk first instead of going for the simple, too good to be true, deal.
No. ---
Originally by: CCP Mitnal Locked.
OP does not contain an idea.
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Luminus Mallus
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Posted - 2010.01.10 08:15:00 -
[3]
This is not an issue that can be shrugged off as if it were non existant, and at the same moment you can't impose limits that would hinder gameplay.
Basically, since humans are fundamentally stupid and evil, you have to have limits. As of now, there's too much room for speculation. Take salvage items for example. Majority of them are sold for a fraction of their worth... because speculators seed the region with bogus sell orders... so that they can put up buy orders for related ridiculous prices!
The problem is... since many players don't grasp this economical aspect if not when pretty mature into the game, they contribute to the problem.
I believe that there should be a "commission" (possibly just an artificial intelligence) that would veto the sell, or mark the sell order so as to not calculate it into the region price standard deviation, compared to the actual worth of the item (if anything based on minerals value * rarity)
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2010.01.10 09:15:00 -
[4]
When will you stop being so dumb to accept 1000% above market average sell orders?
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2010.01.10 11:05:00 -
[5]
Originally by: DuKackBoon When will you stop being so dumb to accept 1000% above market average sell orders?
Nothing to add here.
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Rhinanna
Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.01.10 11:09:00 -
[6]
While I do think that you should be able to set market bids to whatever you want, I do think the average price that is displayed shouldn't be modified by the massively high or low bids.
This would mean the average gives people a better guide, the average for some objects in market hub regions is lower than their reprocessing value with no skills... Thats only because of a massive number of 0.01 isk buy orders for that item lowering the average price artificaly.
With a fair guide to average price clearly displayed it's then buyer beware really. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Orgust Brem
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Posted - 2010.01.10 11:20:00 -
[7]
<stay constructive please>
market manipulation is easy. you may manipulate market that regional price of a Megathron may be "100,00 ISK".
besides that fact...
@14Kfrack: it's a game and games have rules and you accept those rules >> 50k players accept that rules Rules are that prices are player-regulated >> this leads to a total new experience of game-play! and 50k player (some less) like those experience
salvation for yourself: manufacture your own items. In this way you have constant prices. Or trade with npc-stations. This prices are constant, too (you see NPC-trading while the market order has about 365 days)
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DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2010.01.10 11:34:00 -
[8]
The thing about average price is, that it is the sum of the price of all sell/buy orders divided by the number of market orders, so every single order has some influence.
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Ti'anla
Minmatar NOVA Innovations Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.10 11:51:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Ti''anla on 10/01/2010 11:51:25 Why not simply have the price change colour, from green to white to red, depending on how far either side of the regional average it is? That'd be a nice bit of warning without imposing concrete restrictions.
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Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2010.01.10 13:47:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Shade Millith on 10/01/2010 13:48:02
Originally by: Ti'anla Edited by: Ti''anla on 10/01/2010 11:51:25 Why not simply have the price change colour, from green to white to red, depending on how far either side of the regional average it is? That'd be a nice bit of warning without imposing concrete restrictions.
Oooorrrrr, you could look at the number that's right there next to unit price when you try to buy something? --------------------------------------------
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Abulurd Boniface
Gallente Construction Cabal
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Posted - 2010.01.10 13:51:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Ti'anla Edited by: Ti''anla on 10/01/2010 11:51:25 Why not simply have the price change colour, from green to white to red, depending on how far either side of the regional average it is? That'd be a nice bit of warning without imposing concrete restrictions.
No. What is wrong with just paying attention? If you see sell orders that are physically wider [in characters] than the ones before or after that order, that is your clue that something is up.
Just pay attention. Don't ask for the kinds of features that tell the developers their customers are just too lazy/stupid to understand what they're doing. It is highly demoralizing to developers when they're asked to yet again implement a feature because the user can't be arsed to take responsibility for their actions.
It's supposed to be a harsh environment.
For good to survive it suffices for evil to acquire a deadly, incapacitating disease. |
sm1thy
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Posted - 2010.01.10 16:31:00 -
[12]
The op has just revealed to us how ignorant he/she is of one of the best features of the game, that is market playing, market PvP, professional trading, industrial style of playing... call it whatever you want.
I strongly suggest that you rethink your whole understanding of the marketplace in eve, think out of the box and forget what you know so far especially from other MMO's ...
there is hope for you yet my young apprentice
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Luminus Mallus
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Posted - 2010.01.10 17:35:00 -
[13]
What a mass of ignorant and pathetic dimwits has shown up in this post! The OP idea is clearly on the path of making the market a more realistic and less manipulable place.
Again, you can see the amount of speculation going on at all market levels by simply checking the buy orders and sell orders values for a vast quantity of items. 100isk for salvage parts, anyone?
Well of course if you yourself are one of those miserables that speculate just because they can, will surely object to a more fair and regulated market.
AGAIN, it suffices that ridiculous sell and buy orders aren't taken in consideration in calculating the standard price deviation of products. You will still be able to speculate and scam your fools, but at least you won't be the ones to decide the "fair" price of merchandise.
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Malephar
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Posted - 2010.01.10 17:40:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Malephar on 10/01/2010 17:40:18
Originally by: sm1thy The op has just revealed to us how ignorant he/she is of one of the best features of the game, that is market playing, market PvP, professional trading, industrial style of playing... call it whatever you want.
I strongly suggest that you rethink your whole understanding of the marketplace in eve, think out of the box and forget what you know so far especially from other MMO's ...
100% this.
Its all about the free market economy. There are predators and there are prey... the OP is clearly the prey.
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Cecilia Syal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.10 17:43:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cecilia Syal on 10/01/2010 17:47:08
I support keeping the markets the way they are, Its like a stock market with supply and demand. If prices creep too high things won't move and the people manipulating the market of a few items will have all their money tied up in one thing thats not moving.
Simply put, if you go to Jita or Rens just to buy your items you might fall victim to manipulated prices, but just like in real life if you buy everything in one mall, your likely to overpay for a lot of things... check OTHER region's markets as well...
Do your research before you buy anything, check its info and its bpo, do a estimate on prices of minerals or compenents on market of how much it cost to produce...do your RESEARCH, if you just blindly buy without being smart about it, then your just dumb & deserve to be taken.
Edit: also i'm a noob and spent 30mil to buy all of one item on the market in a whole region, and put it up at 4x the price and am made my money back already by people not checking elsewhere
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Di Mulle
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Posted - 2010.01.10 19:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Again, you can see the amount of speculation going on at all market levels by simply checking the buy orders and sell orders values for a vast quantity of items. 100isk for salvage parts, anyone?
Care to elaborate, please ? What exactly is wrong with that price ?
Originally by: Luminus Mallus AGAIN, it suffices that ridiculous sell and buy orders aren't taken in consideration in calculating the standard price deviation of products. You will still be able to speculate and scam your fools, but at least you won't be the ones to decide the "fair" price of merchandise.
Exactly what you propose here and how it will help, again ?
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Czert ElPrezidente
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Posted - 2010.01.10 21:00:00 -
[17]
Mayby it will be totaly sufficient if CCP make sure that filters in setting are working - I set (and checked) for selling orders derivation of -99% up to 200% of average market price, but it still displays me items which are much over set 200% range (e.q. one which is exacly 1183,5% above averge market price).
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Luminus Mallus
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Posted - 2010.01.11 10:11:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Di Mulle
Originally by: Luminus Mallus
Again, you can see the amount of speculation going on at all market levels by simply checking the buy orders and sell orders values for a vast quantity of items. 100isk for salvage parts, anyone?
Care to elaborate, please ? What exactly is wrong with that price ?
Originally by: Luminus Mallus AGAIN, it suffices that ridiculous sell and buy orders aren't taken in consideration in calculating the standard price deviation of products. You will still be able to speculate and scam your fools, but at least you won't be the ones to decide the "fair" price of merchandise.
Exactly what you propose here and how it will help, again ?
Salvage is composed by many different parts, the rarity of which determines their VALUE (which is different from the current price). There IS a couple of items that salvage for 100s of isk, being common and easy and numerous to salvage, but today 90% of the salvage items are being speculated so much that they are marketed for a fraction of their value.
So, it's OK that salvage that's WORTH 200isk be marketed at 100isk, but speculators today market 1000, 2000, 10000, 30000 and up salvage into the 100 - 900 isk range, since they can manipulate the average prices with ridiculous and numerous faux sell and buy orders.
If you want to calculate a relevant value of market items, you simply calculate the average drop/ volume rate of said items in relation to the cross server average isk/hour and multiply by mineral value or scavenge-drop rate.
Using for example a good 10mil/hour production factor, you quickly realize that the situation is pretty bad, in terms of speculation and perceived average item value.
Oh, and an INCREDIBLE number of people just sell their salvage, because getting a grasp of market influences and situation is simply not for everybody.
The solution is simple: when fractionary sell orders and buy orders are put up (remember that every object has a REAL, DATABASE value), they don't influence regional averages. So If I'm john doe selling things for the first time, I COULD sell my stuff for 1/10th of what's worth, but at least the sell window would tell me [-1100% below regional average]
It's easy to say "free market" when you keep people ignorant, and you actually make nothing to raise awareness of how things are working in favor of speculators.
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sm1thy
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Posted - 2010.01.11 17:32:00 -
[19]
Guys, i am not a veteran by any means, but i see that many of you underestimate the market. Don't. Contrary to popular belief among newbies in eve the market IS ruthless AND fair.
Also trying to 'set a value based on average income' like the guy above did is imo wrong and it completely ignores many other factors. Factors like luck (how about a 5 hour 'work' that nets you 1.5 BILLION if you drop a named faction or commander module in a 0.0 plex), demand (why is it that similar-chances salvage items are priced at different prices? you are forgetting that not all items are desired the same)* , market forces :
yes 'speculators', they do want to make a profit too you know but let me tell you, if they do have such a small price why not try to join the party..? you will soon see that
0)forget about 'average price', its mostly irrelevant, avg volume traded and profit margin is more important, you will find that most often than not they tend to be inversely connected... 1) the rig that will come out will not net you as much profit as you thought, 2) if you try to simply buy and sell them on sell orders the turnout volume will not be that much to net you sufficient profits 3) Don't underestimate the boredom of traveling around a whole region to collect items bought on those region-wide orders that have caught your eye. 4) also try to simply set a couple of buy and sell orders on high volume T2 modules and compare the profit to what you get from trading in salvage items, You need to start considering that trading is another profession in eve just as missioning and mining is. And believe me unless you have lots and lots of capital you will find yourself wondering why you don't set a raven on semi-afk missioning and make 100 times more isk than you make with trading-hauling-0.01ing buy orders.
You do realise that rig prices directly depend on salvage prices, yes? You do realise that knowledge of any 'non-adventurous' profession should somehow net some rewards after all, yes ? You do realise that in this game you have to watch your back at every turn and that includes scamming and overpriced items, it is not something that needs fixing.
* trading is heavily-heavily dependent to what is going around in eve, that is both in the political landscape, when goons attacked BOB T2 ships/items rose in price, and the developer-future patch chances.
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mundus123
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Posted - 2010.01.12 01:25:00 -
[20]
I have an even better idea! look at what yoru buying or selling. Say your selling salvage ,think to yourself so i have enough salvage and if i sell it and its 50mil isk below what the finished producted is, hmm idk maybe i should put up a buy order instead or contact my indy corp mate!
Yes a free market is corrupt and unfair! Its unfair not because of traders but because of those that buy/sell to the traders! No im not a trader either.
Its simple, eve is suppost to be hard and harsh, nubs perish and the smart ones get ahead.
Simply pay attention, dont worry about the market average, thats a useless tool if you ask me. Look at the market orders for yoru region/ the surrounding regions, use some of those char slots to have market watchers if you want. If yoru really worried, look at what you are selling or buying, do the math to figure out how much it really costs to do it that way you can see if your getting a good deal or are getting scammed.
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2010.01.12 02:20:00 -
[21]
UMM... Never. They figure the powers of observation is good enough. They figure that if a player can't pay attention to the cost of what they want to buy. lol Too Bad so Sad. nextime be more obesrvant. I for one agree with that philosophy. Caviot Emptor. latin for let the buyer beware. Something that applies to the real world.
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