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Ketusan
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Posted - 2010.01.10 16:05:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Ketusan on 10/01/2010 16:06:47
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Let's bring the new Wormhole AI to New Eden!
I think the best place to start implementing them is in the Capture Plexes of Faction Warfare.
People are already used to PvP. There is little to no economic impact, and players that come into the will learn how to deal with the new AI compared to the old AI.
It will also bring a new challenge to FW plex capturing, that will relieve some of the issues currently plaguing the system, including boredom, but also all the way up to the speedtanking and such going on.
Also, it should be server light since Combat Plexes are specific to Faction warfare, and won't cause server strain all over the galaxy.
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c0olGuY77
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Posted - 2010.01.10 16:23:00 -
[2]
even though i dont do FW, i think this is the perfect place to implement new ai. although they shouldnt be as hard as sleepers, they should be doable in small ships depending on plex size. |
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CCP Incognito
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Posted - 2010.01.11 11:05:00 -
[3]
Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:08:49 Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:05:57 Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :) ----- I am a programmer, not a designer, all design comments are just speculation and have no grounding in fact! |
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Aurora Ominae
Gallente V I R I I Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.01.11 11:18:00 -
[4]
and making drones even more unusable and ****?
thx for killing an entire race ccp
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Ti'anla
Minmatar NOVA Innovations Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 13:56:00 -
[5]
Yes, bar drones needing to have a way of being useful when against the new AI (really that Does need looking at I think..) I'm all for the gradual upgrading of all the AI enemies to sleeper AI. .. And then the further upgrading of Sleeper AI.
Hell, I think that'd make for a nice pattern to follow over time.
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Aloriana Jacques
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2010.01.11 15:07:00 -
[6]
Originally by: CCP Incognito Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:08:49 Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:05:57 Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :)
My interest has been greatly peaked. - - - Aloriana Jacques - Skill Sheet
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Fi Vantage
Minmatar Kha'rific-Mintor Outriders.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 15:26:00 -
[7]
Isn't it the Sleepers' massive tracking that kills the drones and not the AI?
Remember to update mission rat AI too.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.11 15:27:00 -
[8]
Originally by: CCP Incognito Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:08:49 Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:05:57 Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :)
This is relevant to my interests. May I subscribe to your newsletter?
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Ti'anla
Minmatar NOVA Innovations Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 15:45:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fi Vantage Isn't it the Sleepers' massive tracking that kills the drones and not the AI?
I believe they have very high tracking, yes, but their AI specifically directs them to decide on threat levels and target appropriately. Is a ship using ECMs on them, or supporting it's friends? Kill it, it's friends'll be easier then.
Is a ship dealing very little damage, but deploying drones instead? Ignore the ship for now, kill the drones.
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Daedalus II
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Posted - 2010.01.11 16:04:00 -
[10]
Adding sleeper AI to normal missions could actually be the "solution" to the lvl 4 mission problem. At first it can be seen as no major difference, the main thing with the sleeper AI is it's ability to change targets, and you usually just run a lvl 4 mission in a single battleship, so there are no other target to switch to.
However, if they start targeting drones you might be in for some real trouble. Without any good way of keeping frigates off you, you will be locked down and blown up much more frequently than today. And even if you can tank them, you will still be stuck in the mission, warp scrambled but unable to hit the frigates. You would either have to use valuable slots on webbers and increased tracking/target painting, or split rewards with someone else in a frigate/destroyer.
AFK mission drone ships will be a memory, likewise remote repping alts.
Perhaps this all just boils down to everyone using ravens with two target painters and a webber instead. Anyway, lvl 4 missions will be less valuable as they get increasingly annoying to complete.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.01.11 16:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: CCP Incognito
Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :)
Why do I get the feeling that he is going to implement it for high-sec NPCs and not the ones that actually matter inside plexes?
Any chance of an official post/blog from Devs regarding FW and whether we may see any work done on it in theforeseeable future?
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Cearain
Caldari ReSlavers
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Posted - 2010.01.11 16:28:00 -
[12]
I wish they would stop using npcs in fw plexes. Let the militias know when plexes are going to be taken let them decide if they want to defend it in pvp ships. Making FW more of a pve endeavor, by making the rats harder to deal with, does not get my support.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2010.01.11 17:39:00 -
[13]
NPCs in FW complexes already effectively discourage interesting PvP engagements. Please do not make them better at discouraging good PvP.
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Veliria
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Posted - 2010.01.11 17:50:00 -
[14]
Originally by: CCP Incognito Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:08:49 Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:05:57 Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :)
CNRs, Ravens and AFK Domis are gonna have a baaaaaad day
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.11 19:14:00 -
[15]
Sleeper drone aggro is overblown to be honest. It's true that Sleepers attack drones, and hit them harder than they perhaps should be able to, but you can recall them and redeploy if you have to. I've yet to see Sleepers automatically switch back to the drones after you do this.
If this AI was applied to missions and you got into a situation where you were scrambled (unless I'm mistaken it's always by a frigate-class rat) then you could just set your drones on it, if it (or anything else) aggros your drones then they should be close enough to you to recall to drone bay and redeploy and try again, etc.
The only people truly nerfed by Sleeper AI are those who expect to just be able to aggro everything in the room, dump their drones then go and make a sandwich and come back to a field of wrecks. Why should they expect to be able to do this, just because historically weak AI has made it possible?
Sleeper AI in missions would make them a lot more interesting in my opinion.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.11 20:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Durzel
Sleeper AI in missions would make them a lot more interesting in my opinion.
This would make missions really interesting, not to mention increase the possibility of varied/improved mission rewards.
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Sunset Rogue
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Posted - 2010.01.11 20:34:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Sunset Rogue on 11/01/2010 20:42:22 CCP Incognito, if you are referencing highsec missioning, allow me to remind you how many subscribers a botched job will cost you. Just how much of eve's player base is in highsec? I seem to have forgotten Half those highsec bears are only slightly swayed to EVE for their PvE addiction. Change the missions in a way they don't like and you just lost a big chunk of the highsec guys to WoW.
Originally by: Arkady Sadik NPCs in FW complexes already effectively discourage interesting PvP engagements. Please do not make them better at discouraging good PvP.
Quoted for truth.
Originally by: Durzel Sleeper AI in missions would make them a lot more interesting in my opinion.
Make the grind even more tedious and less accessible to newer pilots / people who can't spend billions on mission ships... how fun!
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Laevateinn
Novus Aevum Dominatus Novus Aevum
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Posted - 2010.01.11 21:57:00 -
[18]
On the subject of sleeper AI in missions: Limit it to level 4+ missions. Level 1-3 missions still retain normal mechanics and are just as accessable to newer players. Perhaps this would finally put to bed the whole issues of moving level 4 agents out of high sec, since theres a greater risk-reward system in place.
Maybe give level 5 missions a far greater reward system if suddenly they have to contend with not only elite AI, but being scanned out and destroyed by PvP fit players. But in this scenario, it still would not make level 5's any more appealing. The level 5 mission system would not benifit from this.
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Lorn Cholaxu
Gallente Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness
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Posted - 2010.01.12 21:27:00 -
[19]
Drones work fine against sleepers--I rely on mine heavily for damage in wormhole ops. If you have Drone Durability 5, T2 sentries and are paying attention you've got little to worry about. With sentries you can instantly drop aggro against them and immediately redeploy--that's just like having a DPS meatshield with perfect, instant, cap-free targeted ECM on standby at all times. Sentries are built to take a beating, so you have plenty of time to scoop them if they catch heat. If you are concerned about response time for recalls then make some key mappings for easier drone control and recall. You can also just recall the one drone that is getting aggro and keep the other 4 in combat. I generally use the sentries to pick off small and medium sleepers as they approach my squad, because they don't ratchet down orbit ranges and so have a low transversal on approach.
Better AI in L4 missions would be a welcome change and would encourage more cooperative play on missions. ---- "The Creed is Greed."
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Ketusan
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:18:00 -
[20]
Sweet!
And thanks for responding to my Thread! :)
Originally by: CCP Incognito Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:08:49 Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:05:57 Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :)
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.14 17:35:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Sunset Rogue Edited by: Sunset Rogue on 11/01/2010 20:42:22 CCP Incognito, if you are referencing highsec missioning, allow me to remind you how many subscribers a botched job will cost you. Just how much of eve's player base is in highsec? I seem to have forgotten Half those highsec bears are only slightly swayed to EVE for their PvE addiction. Change the missions in a way they don't like and you just lost a big chunk of the highsec guys to WoW.
Originally by: Arkady Sadik NPCs in FW complexes already effectively discourage interesting PvP engagements. Please do not make them better at discouraging good PvP.
Quoted for truth.
Originally by: Durzel Sleeper AI in missions would make them a lot more interesting in my opinion.
Make the grind even more tedious and less accessible to newer pilots / people who can't spend billions on mission ships... how fun!
I doubt CCP cares. No one here honestly wants WoW's player base, and if it's that much of a fine line between them PvEing in EVE and doing the same in WoW, then WoW would be a better place for them.
You don't need a billion isk ship to run level 4s or any other mission. The only "grind" here is the threat missions will require more attention than "gain aggro, set drones to aggressive, make sandwich".
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Meredith Midnight
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:05:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Meredith Midnight on 14/01/2010 18:07:18
Originally by: Regat Kozovv I doubt CCP cares. No one here honestly wants WoW's player base, and if it's that much of a fine line between them PvEing in EVE and doing the same in WoW, then WoW would be a better place for them.
While I agree in principal, saying that CCP should get rid of its PVE carebear population is just completely shortsighted. I doubt CCP is making so much profit that they can lose 1-5k players (I can't really say how many people are 'pure risk-adverse carebears' types) and not care.
I personally like the PVE playerbase, it's alot easier to get salvage when they're around, and the minerals they sell to the market from reprocessed loot make ships cheap. Also, with the new autocannon/artillery buff, multi-billion isk CNRs are like flying pinatas.
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oniplE
MeMento.
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Posted - 2010.01.14 18:59:00 -
[23]
Originally by: CCP Incognito Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:08:49 Edited by: CCP Incognito on 11/01/2010 11:05:57 Wait for it.
I gave the guy in charge of all the dungeons a tutorial on how to change existing NPC to sleeper AI. It may not be showing up where you expect though...
So Wait for it. :)
It may not be showing up where you expect though... sounds like the introduction of sleeper AI into lvl 4 missions :) x |
Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.14 20:46:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Meredith Midnight Edited by: Meredith Midnight on 14/01/2010 18:07:18
Originally by: Regat Kozovv I doubt CCP cares. No one here honestly wants WoW's player base, and if it's that much of a fine line between them PvEing in EVE and doing the same in WoW, then WoW would be a better place for them.
While I agree in principal, saying that CCP should get rid of its PVE carebear population is just completely shortsighted. I doubt CCP is making so much profit that they can lose 1-5k players (I can't really say how many people are 'pure risk-adverse carebears' types) and not care.
I personally like the PVE playerbase, it's alot easier to get salvage when they're around, and the minerals they sell to the market from reprocessed loot make ships cheap. Also, with the new autocannon/artillery buff, multi-billion isk CNRs are like flying pinatas.
Sorry, let me correct this, I have nothing against carebears, or PvEers. I run plenty of level 4s myself. I am not in favor of keeping missions and AI from getting better however. I realize that will ruin people who run missions AFK, but contrary to driving people back to WoW, I would think an enhanced and interesting AI would make missions fresh, and revitalize that aspect of PvE much in the way wormholes did (sans someone's T3 cruiser jumping up your rear. =P )
Those who want to stick with dumb NPCs only can certainly go back to WoW.
Note: I should note, WoW's NPC AI is currently better than what's in the level 4s. There's at least a risk that you might pull aggro off the tank.
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Nadarius Chrome
Celestial Horizon Corp.
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Posted - 2010.01.14 23:45:00 -
[25]
It'll probably show up in faction police or Concord first, or something equally useless. Don't worry, they won't suddenly make L4's impossible without a fleet. They may buff L5 AI since the current "spam neut towers" tactic really only means that vultures and nighthawks have gained popularity. |
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