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Izzy Alistair
Amarr
StatiC Ex.
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:06:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Izzy Alistair on 15/01/2010 00:06:53
I was just wondering, does anyone actually ever run an armor and shield tank? If so post your fit. If not talk about how fail it is...
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Arcelian
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:25:00 -
[2]
No.
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Entity
X-Factor Industries
Synthetic Existence
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:25:00 -
[3]
Sometimes.
Most of the time it's pointless, but that setup just so happens to be effective for what it was made for (baiting gankers) ;)
Running an -active- hybrid tank seems to be universally silly though.
_
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James Lyrus
Lyrus Associates
The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:32:00 -
[4]
Practically everyone dual tanks these days - have you seen how ubiquitous damage controls are?
Anyway, in general:
Dual active tanking is a terrible idea. Never do it. I mean never. Because in this game, jack of all trades really is master of none.
You burn through your shield tank, and then you've no cap to run your armour tank, and it was a waste of slots.
Dual (triple) tanking 'buffer style' on the other hand, could have a place - armour slows you down, and eats lows. Shields bloom your sig, and cost mids. So if you've got some of each, and maybe a couple of spare - like maybe on something like a Hurricane - then it's not entirely moronic.
For example:
[Hurricane, Triple-Tank]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Vespa EC-600 x1
Hornet EC-300 x4
Now, this is a triple tank, in effect.
However, it's worth noting:
20k ehp on shield. (With good explosive/kinetic resists)
32k ehp on armour. (With good EM/Therm resists)
10k ehp on hull.
And yes, you _do_ get more EHPs if you trimark it, but the trimarks also slow you down - I've always found that to be undesirable in a short range fit.
But if you consider it acceptable and go thus:
[Hurricane, Triple-Tank copy 1]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II
Gyrostabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Large Shield Extender II
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Dual 180mm AutoCannon II, Barrage M
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Vespa EC-600 x1
Hornet EC-300 x4
... well, that LSE there still gives you 6k more EHP omni (8k vs. Explosive), and what else were you going to use the slot for anyway?
*shrug*.
It's marginal, and just generally assume it's a bad idea, and you won't go too far wrong.
And even if you do, you won't get laughed at on killboards ;)
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.01.15 00:48:00 -
[5]
No. Reason = Neuts
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Tralna Minita
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Posted - 2010.01.15 01:01:00 -
[6]
[Ishtar, dual tank]
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Damage Control II
Armor Explosive Hardener II
Large Shield Extender II
Invulnerability Field II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II
Faint Warp Disruptor I
Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I
I have never tried it but I am not sure if there is a downside in terms of tank. Obviously you loose damage from lack of guns but a lot of setups leave them empty anyway. If there was a ship Id duel tank slightly seriously is this one.
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Theac Osiris
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Posted - 2010.01.15 01:42:00 -
[7]
Actively tanking both shield and armor is pretty foolish. You will gasp for capacitor, and I see no situation where it would ever be reasonable to devote all your slots for tanking.
A dual-tanked cap injected setup will run out of charges in no time at all, and a dual-tanked setup with passive cap recharge will either cap out in no time, or devote so many slots to cap mods that it hurts both tanks to the point of oblivion. On top of this, you won't have midslots or lowslots open for useful mods like points, and you'll probably be short on PG/CPU for guns.
As stated above, there is a use for passive tanking both: if you need an obscene amount of EHP, it might pay to have buffer on shield, armor, and a DCU for hull. The one caveat: if you have a pretty hefty shield buffer, it might be better to add PDUs and a DCU to the lowslots rather than plating it up.
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Toshiro GreyHawk
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Posted - 2010.01.15 04:34:00 -
[8]
Yeah, it's like you've only got so much cap - so - it's better to spend it all on one thing being active as whatever you spend it on is going to use it all up making a second active cap module useless - and worse, taking up a slot you could fit a passive module (or something else) in.
But - there are times when you can make use of passive extra padding and/or resists.
A DCU for example - inherently helps Shield, Armor and Structure.
Mostly - it is best to reinforce what your ship is strongest in. If you've got really good shields but spend your cap on armor ... that armor's not going to last as long as the shields would have if you'd spent your cap on them - and vice-versa.
Shield tankers tend to have lots of mids.
Armor Tankers tend to have lots of lows.
Mostly, when you really pack on whatever you can to both shields and armor - you're trying to make something that can take a lot of damage with less interest in dealing it out.
As above "bait" comes to mind but I've flown missions where I had to fly through a big toxic cloud to get to a jump gate ... no rats involved ... so that might be another reason for multi-tanking.
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.15 04:47:00 -
[9]
It's almost never a good idea to dual-tank, because you are going to be better off spending those slots on something else. For example, the Hurricane setup posted above would get far more benefit from fitting a third gyro and a couple tracking enhancers or nanos instead of the armor tank, or swapping the shield extender for a tracking disruptor or cap booster.
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abrasive soap
Point Blank.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.01.15 05:17:00 -
[10]
the only ships worth dual tanking are titans
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:04:00 -
[11]
 Originally by: Entity
Sometimes.
Most of the time it's pointless, but that setup just so happens to be effective for what it was made for (baiting gankers) ;)
Gaha, entity wins...fatality.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.01.15 06:16:00 -
[12]
No. Not exactly tanking. Sometimes for max EHP people do try to get some hardeninig on the 'other one' also. Besides, in that case one could argue that they are also using hull already, as damage control is in essence hull tanking module.
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Deva Blackfire
Cry Me a River INC
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Posted - 2010.01.15 09:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Carniflex
No. Not exactly tanking. Sometimes for max EHP people do try to get some hardeninig on the 'other one' also. Besides, in that case one could argue that they are also using hull already, as damage control is in essence hull tanking module.
Pretty much this. Sometimes its worth to dual harden dreads (for example 1-2 invulnis and overheat them in combat). You gonna die either way but in case of 2x overheated invulnis it "might" give you 5 seconds or so of life more which in large (and non-lagged ;p) dread combat counts.
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NanoiaBR
Minmatar
Republic Military School
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Posted - 2010.01.15 11:14:00 -
[14]
I've got a pirate friend who does pretty well in a dual buffer tank mammoth for baiting people in high security asteroid belts. Basically he fits some shield and armor resistances, plate and shield extenders and just sit there until help arives.
Never tried it myself though.
"But although all our knowledge begins with experience, it does not follow that it arises from experience." - Immanuel Kant |
bitters much
Nekkid Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.15 11:39:00 -
[15]
There are infact lots of dual tankers in EVE these days, you find them only in the loss section of any killboard.
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Excrucio Pax
Minmatar
Sanctum Excruciatum
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Posted - 2010.01.15 13:17:00 -
[16]
I've dual tanked a Wolf for missions, trying to get max DPS for the tougher level 4 missions before I could fly anything bigger. Small Gistii SB, DC and plate buffer for those OMFG webbed moments. Worked pretty well.
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Kijo Rikki
Caldari
Swarm of Angry Bees
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Posted - 2010.01.15 14:18:00 -
[17]
Does throwing a DCII in a low slot on a shield tank count as dual-tanking? 
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Calydonian Boar
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Posted - 2010.01.15 15:01:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Entity
Sometimes.
Most of the time it's pointless, but that setup just so happens to be effective for what it was made for (baiting gankers) ;)
Running an -active- hybrid tank seems to be universally silly though.
Lol Fer :) you are taking a risk with that ship, 10-15 brutix would take ship down easily... with possible a-type eanm drops and the stuff you carry usually its doable... I scanned your ship a couple of times but I am always alone :(
It's a nice bait though, has about 55k ehp assuming you have slaves as well :)
Anyway, dual tank is a no-no, and the example he gave above is exceptional as he does that in highsec where people can only engage for a few seconds until concord arrives. If you have armor tank, your midslots is your support group (such as cap recharges for PVE or web / point for pvp), if you do shield tank, your lowslots is your support group (such as cap power relay/cap flux coil / pds for pve or damage mods / pds / sig amps for pvp)
So if you do dual tank mainly you won't be able to support your capacitor.
Only case you do dual tank is in POS ops and its generally for caldari since POS shooting fleets are usually RR and thus armor rep. You armor tank your raven/scorp/rokh and also fit shield extenders to provide yourself buffer.
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Proxyyyy
Caldari
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.01.15 15:04:00 -
[19]
It depemds, but yes...
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Faffywaffy
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Posted - 2010.01.15 18:05:00 -
[20]
An armor buffer tank on an active shield tanked ship is not entirely unreasonable, as it gives you more time to run your shield booster if the enemy's dps is higher than your rep. Of course, on every specific ship you have to consider the alternatives (such as fitting damage mods instead), and they usually win in the end.
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar
United Systems Navy
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:27:00 -
[21]
Bait, that's it.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2010.01.15 19:55:00 -
[22]
I think the Tempest was designed to be a dual tanker... :(
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Jimmy Duce
Shards of Apathy
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Posted - 2010.01.16 01:04:00 -
[23]
tristan-dual tank Cause it works better this way
<?xml version="1.0" ?>
<fittings>
<fitting name="Tristan - New Setup 1">
<description value=""/>
<shipType value="Tristan"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 0" type="Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 1" type="Small Armor Repairer II"/>
<hardware slot="low slot 2" type="Damage Control II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 0" type="Small Shield Booster II"/>
<hardware slot="med slot 1" type="Small Capacitor Booster II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 0" type="Rocket Launcher II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 1" type="Rocket Launcher II"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 2" type="125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun"/>
<hardware slot="hi slot 3" type="125mm Prototype I Gauss Gun"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 0" type="Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer II"/>
<hardware slot="rig slot 1" type="Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer II"/>
</fitting>
</fittings>
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Renagaide Tempest
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Posted - 2010.01.16 03:32:00 -
[24]
I run shield extenders in my med slots
and armor plates in my lows because I get the highest HP's that way
without losing my cap, but i am a noob
i learn what i can by trial and error.....lots of error
but i try to ballance strong and cheap...of course its true there are lots of my ships on the loss side.
all i do is fight and steal and salvage....it keeps me busy but poor.
I guess I run a passive shield/armor tank.....and this is wrong then so.....
Armor Tank my Amarr Cruiser?
Or fit a manuverability enhancer or targeting enhancer of tackler?
I've went heavy armor shields so far because I'm basicly a salvager/scavanger/thief
and have only fought as a means of survival (mostly unsucessfull).
I've won 2 or 3 pvps thats it on a month old toon.
So my ships fight hard in pvp last a good minute or so, but can't get away.....of
course I'm a noob in .5 or less. And thats where I like to play, very tough though
I may have to go back to high sec and grind isk soon.
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Izzy Alistair
Amarr
StatiC Ex.
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Posted - 2010.01.16 03:43:00 -
[25]
Okay this is the reaction I expected, I just wanted to know if anyone actually tried it and didn't fail with it. Guess I was mostly wrong except for that cane fit mentioned beforehand.
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z0de
The Bastards
The Bastards.
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Posted - 2010.01.16 06:37:00 -
[26]
dual buffer can work, dual active never.
á
á
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AmarrVictor
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Posted - 2010.01.16 06:41:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Entity
Sometimes.
Most of the time it's pointless, but that setup just so happens to be effective for what it was made for (baiting gankers) ;)
Running an -active- hybrid tank seems to be universally silly though.
I was about to troll the living **** out of you but then I realised it was you and went away dissapointed. :D
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AmarrVictor
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Posted - 2010.01.16 06:47:00 -
[28]
Also for dual tanking .. possibly carriers? Not for boosting but to give the the ehp too withstand titan shots maybe
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