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Agent Unknown
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.01.23 01:26:00 -
[31]
No. Crashes happen, we move on. Also, I now have one of those annoying sigs.
Originally by: CCP Fallout
And yelling is bad. It makes the baby Jesus cry and when the baby Jesus cries I'm forced to lock threads
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Taxesarebad
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Posted - 2010.01.23 03:02:00 -
[32]
dispite the trolls it would be a good gesture. i wouldn't complain of 5 free days
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.01.23 03:11:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Scout Ops - Players would be happy and stop complaining about crashes.
No, they won't. You don't know people.
Quote: - CCP is not losing, I mean, its just 5 days.
5 days is roughly 1/6 of their monthly INCOME, or if you prefer, 1.37% of their yearly income. I'd call that a significant loss, when you're looking at a corporation-wide ledger... and for what benefits exactly ? Yeah, next to none.
Quote: - EVE Online gets more subscribers as potential new players notice the service is good.
Good joke.
Quote: my 0.02isk
Rejected.
_
We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
GavinGoodrich
Ungrouped Guns
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Posted - 2010.01.23 03:15:00 -
[34]
The closer to the individual level you make it...the more often companies will offer incentives for unsatisfactory service, or to sweeten the deal for a sale.
You CAN do it on the macro level...as in massive #'s of people/accounts...but you'd need some sort of a business plan to present to the people in charge of the money on how to justify it.
Perhaps a slush fund for player reimbursement for lost time...and if the tech team didn't have many server outages that quarter/year/whatever they get a little bonus?
Of course, the EULA trumps all that. However, I did appreciate it when Sony offered incentives to players when things broke because of thier fault (day long server outages) It's just good business. We, the players, were grateful.
/shrugs \o |
Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2010.01.23 06:04:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 23/01/2010 06:05:02 i'm already getting my free days... i've unsubscribed my other PvP character. alas, selling is not an option with the market plummeting - quite a load of players a dumping their pvp toons.
no point in using guardians, let alone two in form of dual-boxing.
besides, the micromanagement of guns and other targeted thingies doesn't allow dual-boxing anyways - putting the gist back into logistics |
Max Hardcase
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.01.23 07:06:00 -
[36]
I'd like to test that part of the EULA in an EU country. I dont think EU consumer laws allow that. We pay for a service and you better be able to provide that service then.........
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.01.23 07:26:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Max Hardcase I'd like to test that part of the EULA in an EU country. I dont think EU consumer laws allow that. We pay for a service and you better be able to provide that service then.........
No you have agreed with the EULA before you started playing, if you don't like it --> there's the door.
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Amanda Mor
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.23 09:27:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Max Hardcase I'd like to test that part of the EULA in an EU country. I dont think EU consumer laws allow that. We pay for a service and you better be able to provide that service then.........
No you have agreed with the EULA before you started playing, if you don't like it --> there's the door.
Because legal contracts are never challenged in a court of law, and what applies in one country always applies in every other country...
Not that I care too much one way or the other, but a user agreement that requires you only to check a box on your computer screen isn't exactly an ironclad legal document.
Hell, Gilbert Arenas is probably going to be able to keep his money after clearly violating the terms of his contract by bringing a gun (or four) into the locker room - a contract is often a starting point in a debate, not the be all and end all.
---------------------------------------------- I'm not an alt. Oh wait, yes I am. |
Marchocias
Silent Ninja's
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Posted - 2010.01.23 11:34:00 -
[39]
I dont think this is an EULA issue at all; CCP are under no obligation to provide such a service.
However, it may be in the interests of their business to do so, simply as a gesture to foster goodwill amongst their customers. This is something that it is impossible to put an accurate value on.
Also, I think that 5 free days is a bit excessive. I imagine a much fairer system, would be if some part of proxy servers are made stable enough to be sure to log every login attempt... Then anyone online when the server crashes (and anyone attempting to login), gets given the exact amount of time between then and when the server is officially available again... no point reimbursing accounts that didn't suffer the downtime.
Just my 2 pence.
---- I belong to Silent Ninja (Hopefully that should cover it). |
franny
Mentis Seorsum
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Posted - 2010.01.23 14:13:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 22/01/2010 23:18:40
Originally by: Sumelar Totally unnecessary, players just need to realize that things can't be fixed by a flip of a switch. I'm really ashamed that the only thing my generation can really be recognized for its an incredible lack of patience.
most kids who grow up today thinks their parents are being horrible towards them if they are not given jeans to 500 dollar each or the latest iPhone to 700!
and then when you don't buy them ****, they steal it, and you can't even beat them for being little thieving brats because of bleeding heart liberals
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Sinchai N'Bien
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.23 14:28:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Amanda Mor e]
Because legal contracts are never challenged in a court of law, and what applies in one country always applies in every other country...
Not that I care too much one way or the other, but a user agreement that requires you only to check a box on your computer screen isn't exactly an ironclad legal document.
Hell, Gilbert Arenas is probably going to be able to keep his money after clearly violating the terms of his contract by bringing a gun (or four) into the locker room - a contract is often a starting point in a debate, not the be all and end all.
Obviously, all countries have different laws and different interpretations of similar texts, but I'm confident that CCP has several lawyers who work with making the EULA legally bearing in as many countries as possible. And yes, the EULA is considered to be a legal document - anything done on your computer is legally binding if it can be proven; as is the case with music/game sharing (as in, if it can be proven you have violated the copyright they can hold you accountable for it). In case you haven't noticed, you HAVE to 'read' the EULA to install the client and then click a button labeled "I agree". Not reading it or not understanding it does not violate the contract on their end.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.23 16:45:00 -
[42]
Has Sony changed its way of operating a game?
- Patch installed, taking anywhere from eight to twelve hours. - Game online with an emergency patch within twenty minutes. - Unknown length of down time for this emergency patch. - Abashi telling players they suck and don't know a good thing when they see it when same players complain on the forums. - Some of the servers return to life while others are down. - More player complaints, more Abashi bashing. - Previous down servers are up / previous up servers are down. - New wave of player complaints with more Abashi bashing. - Servers finally "stable" while various zones are questionable about being playable. - Another emergency patch to fix the emergency patch. - Servers phase in and out with Abashi still going strong. - Rollback due to exploit found and prompting an emergency patch. - Various game play aspects, like bards and their (lack of) songs, found broken and promised to be fixed in the next patch, scheduled a week from now.
Overall "lost" time equaled a good twenty four hours plus.
-----
All realistic views in a sarcastic tone aside, on a personal level, I never had any issues dealing with either Sony's nor CCP's customer service. I may not always agree with their responses ("No ship replacement???"), but they have always been courteous overall.
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Connner
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:09:00 -
[43]
Newsflash, software doesn't always work right.....
Extended downtimes and occasional crashes and whatnot are to be expected when playing any MMO. I'd say as a whole EVE has been pretty reliable with uptime.
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Ranger 1
Amarr Dynaverse Corporation Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:13:00 -
[44]
Apparently some people have never tried to do a good job at something, had it mess up, and had to ask for patience while they worked furiously to fix the issue.
A few days of occasional server crashes and some minor glitches after a patch (especially a patch that people had be screaming for) simply doesn't equal a major issue.
If, from your point of view, it "is" a major issue you might want to try your luck the wild and wacky world of dating, or perhaps even raising children. It kind of puts this whole thing in perspective.
===== If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:16:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Esu Nahalas on 23/01/2010 17:16:27
Originally by: Amanda Mor
Originally by: Serpents smile
Originally by: Max Hardcase I'd like to test that part of the EULA in an EU country. I dont think EU consumer laws allow that. We pay for a service and you better be able to provide that service then.........
No you have agreed with the EULA before you started playing, if you don't like it --> there's the door.
Because legal contracts are never challenged in a court of law, and what applies in one country always applies in every other country...
Not that I care too much one way or the other, but a user agreement that requires you only to check a box on your computer screen isn't exactly an ironclad legal document.
Hell, Gilbert Arenas is probably going to be able to keep his money after clearly violating the terms of his contract by bringing a gun (or four) into the locker room - a contract is often a starting point in a debate, not the be all and end all.
Any contract written by a lawyer who is not a drunkard or did not sleep through law school will have forum selection and consent to jurisdiction clauses. When you accept such a contract, you agree to where it may be adjudicated and whose law applies.
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Esu Nahalas
The Night Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:21:00 -
[46]
And here it is:
16. GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM
The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.
The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland, (HTra=sd=mur Reykjavfkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavfk, Iceland.
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Kerfira
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Posted - 2010.01.23 17:38:00 -
[47]
Internet lawyers are the bestest lawyers
Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
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Alleneara
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Posted - 2010.01.23 19:54:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Roemy Schneider Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 23/01/2010 06:05:02 i'm already getting my free days... i've unsubscribed my other PvP character. alas, selling is not an option with the market plummeting - quite a load of players a dumping their pvp toons.
no point in using guardians, let alone two in form of dual-boxing.
Sorry for going slightly offtopic, but...
I just returned to the game today (to what extent, will remain to be seen) having been totally inactive since last June, and mostly inactive for much longer. So this caught my eye. Firstly why are people dumping their PVP toons, and secondly why are Guardians (and I guess other Logistics) suddenly pointless now? One reason for asking that before I went inactive, I was supposed to sell a PVP/Guardian character but never got around to doing that. So now it wouldn't be worth reactivating that character for selling purposes I guess?
More on topic, the OP is indeed being quite naive. People always will complain regardless, and yes, two days worth of subs from all subscribers is not an insignificant amount of money by any stretch. In WoW there's been several 1-day additions to game time due to server issues and such, but can't recall it happening much or at all in EVE in my time (March 2006 onwards). I imagine most game companies won't do that lightly due to the economical impact. Especially since the world economy still isn't exactly in a healthy state.
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Slaydo GAme
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Posted - 2010.01.23 20:00:00 -
[49]
I may be wrong but I vaugely remember getting one extra day or so from a downtime....cant remember when it was though. In my opinion 5 days is way too much for an hour an a half or so roughly, at most its more like 2 days. Granted yeah it sucks but it wont stop people from complaining.
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Scout Ops
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:20:00 -
[50]
bump for another tragic day
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rootimus maximus
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:25:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Shimizu Taiki Have a look at the EULA.
I'm fairly certain it gives absolutely zero guarantees about availability, and that CCP don't have to refund you or give you extra because the servers are down.
Nice try though, so you get a C-.
To be fair to the OP, he wasn't suggesting that CCP have any contractual obligation, rather he was suggesting a PR exercise that they could conduct which, in many cases, would result in increased goodwill towards them. |
Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:26:00 -
[52]
If you don't like the service don't buy it, problem solved. Thank-you. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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fivetide humidyear
Gallente Fool Mental Junket
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:26:00 -
[53]
op is a muppet tbh
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Samantha U
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:27:00 -
[54]
Out of the goodness of their evil little hearts, as a gesture of good will, possibly a day or so, or something to brighten up players days, but I don't feel I'm entitled to it.
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Cecilia Syal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:32:00 -
[55]
this is a dumb idea, downtimes like this get you in the sunshine and out of your basement, live with it, nothings 100%... even my isp dies sometimes for a few hours.. the money they lose giving everyone a few free days is better spent on new hardware...
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Twilight Moon
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:32:00 -
[56]
Yeah, and then every time that theres a crash in future, people come to expect 5 free days and moan when not given. No thanks.
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Yakumo Smith
Gallente No End To Infinity Fleetingly Finite
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:37:00 -
[57]
Double SP accumulation for X hours on all accounts depending on how long the disruption is.
I suppose this must be my sig. I'll do something cool with it eventually. |
Othran
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:37:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Jin Nib If you don't like the service don't buy it, problem solved. Thank-you.
Indeed. Guess what happens if enough people follow your advice? CCP will throw ever more desperate "come back" offers at them.
At this point in time, with all the server crashes/lag that have occurred since Dominion/MS-SQL db upgrade who could blame people for simply walking away? I certainly couldn't.
There's been a systematic failure of whatever CCP calls "QA" this week, but frankly that's nothing new. There's also been a critical design failure in the move to the newer MS-SQL engine. That's more serious.
If the lag/crashes are still there come the Nothern hemisphere summer then I reckon CCP are in serious financial trouble.
Needs sorting and theres nothing users can do.
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Cecilia Syal
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:41:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Yakumo Smith Double SP accumulation for X hours on all accounts depending on how long the disruption is.
Thats actually not a bad idea, i remember during castor/red moon rising we got a few extra hours trained than what would of normally trained, could of just been my imagination though, cause it was like 12-24 hour downtimes.
Maybe give all accounts 3 days 100% bonus to training. with a few days notice so people can take advantage.
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Spurty
Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2010.02.10 16:45:00 -
[60]
Skill queues and really long skills make weathering this blizzard a breeze.
Carry on CCP, I'll keep skilling while you keep tracking down issues
Originally by: Hurley I WAS NOT QUITTING SoT AND WAS NOT THINKING ABOUT JOINING IT. PL/SoT MADE A MISTAKE AND ARE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT OR FIX IT.
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