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shyla stylez
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Posted - 2010.01.26 04:41:00 -
[1]
Edited by: shyla stylez on 26/01/2010 04:42:54 I've recently had some trouble going up against 10 - 15 man HAC gangs with 3+ logis as support.
How do people counter these tactics as they seem to be able to rep enough to counter the combined dps output from roughly equal no's. ECM is often mentioned but is only going to be on the field seconds before it gets primaried & needs to warp out - is this really viable?
Thanks in advance.
edit - to clarify, I'm looking for tactics using even no's - I'm sure bringing 200+ hacs would work.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:23:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Roemy Schneider on 26/01/2010 06:25:08 what kind of hacs? close skirmish hacs with guardians (very) nearby? or sniperhacs with scimitars zooming around? former: spread neuts across the guardians and shoot them one by one latter: 2-3 range damps per scimi, shoot whatever you want
yes, ECM "always" works. but to overcome the small sig, (bonus'ed) painters and a web or two should do it, especially when using a drake fleet or similar yourself - putting the gist back into logistics |
macfry
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Posted - 2010.01.26 06:50:00 -
[3]
Edited by: macfry on 26/01/2010 06:50:27 Cheers - it was 3 scimis but the engagements were close range (well until I popped...can't be totally sure after that). Appreciate the advice - will work with some of those ideas.
edit - alt posting :-)
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Torpir Lee
Caldari School of Applied Knowledge
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Posted - 2010.01.26 07:58:00 -
[4]
Fool them to clump into a drag bubble and bomb them to bits.
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Felix Mibaz
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Posted - 2010.01.26 08:47:00 -
[5]
if you have the availability of ecm, that can help though most logi's fit eccm.you could always try to do rr of your own with rr fit bs etc. scorpions can go armor in the lows to help i live longer with rr help to soak enough damage to lock out some of the scimi's or the dps against you to turn the fight in your favor.
depending on range, close-range = neuting hacs as they generally don't like such things. and with enough suck, you can even drop them out of sync with their cap injector cycles, if they even have one.
depending on the scimi range and the damage output range you have to deal with them, you could try and push them off the field completely, but 2 of the 3 can rep the other so there again, you'd have to hope to alpha them and/or lock them out of the fight.
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macfry
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Posted - 2010.01.26 10:36:00 -
[6]
cheers Felix - I like the RR scorp idea a lot.
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.01.26 17:08:00 -
[7]
shield tanked HACs have what? 20-25K ehp?
You should be able to alpha them with 10 rrbs. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Limdood
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Posted - 2010.01.26 19:20:00 -
[8]
looking to beat 10-15 HACs + 3 logi's?
13-18 Scorpions.
half of the scorpions are actual normal fits, with heavy ECM in the mids, but armor tanked lows.
the other half of the scorps are dual-tanked with a huge armor buffer and a huge shield buffer. you can hit quite an impressive EHP if you use the entire mid+low slot layout for tank....
finally, each scorpion should have a large remote armor repper, for spider tanking.
with this setup, you've got it set up so that: 1. you have an impressive ECM setup that should be able to completely counter the logistics. 2. you're all flying scorpions - the odds that they will primary an ECM boat is only 50%, and even if they do, everyone has an armor buffer tank with fullRR support. 3. if all of you lose your ships, you will have lost well under the amount of ISK lost if even a few of the HACS die. Insured T1 BSs ftw.
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Gobbins
Minmatar eXceed Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.26 21:00:00 -
[9]
Use armor tanked battlecruisers with 3 guardians. I once ran a gang of vagabonds/cerbs + scimitars and got ****d by t1 bcs with logistics.
If the hacs are long range, then I suggest sniper battleships (tho you will need a small numbers advantage).
- Gob
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The Tzar
T-Wrecks
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Posted - 2010.01.27 13:00:00 -
[10]
The issue with RR scorpions is that to get any decent ECM strength out of the ship you need to fit signal distortion amps in the lows and/or trimarks in the rig slots.
This doesn't leave room for an armour tank of any kind more than a single plate, which wont cut it.
I would go for something like 'nano'-fit sensor dampning Cerbs/Caracals.
Damp the scimitars down so they can't lock the targets and pop the fragile HAC's from range. Please resize your signature to the maximum allowed of 400 x 120 pixels.StevieSG |
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Peter Wheatstraw
Gallente Corporate Industries and Mining
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Posted - 2010.01.27 17:47:00 -
[11]
Try adding dedicated neutralizers to your gang, hurts alot for the scimitars.
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King Rothgar
Imperial Slave Hunter Society
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Posted - 2010.01.27 23:48:00 -
[12]
5-6 BS's with RR support, alpha all their ships. No points for style but highly effective. -----------------------------------------------------
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Ellmar
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Posted - 2010.01.28 19:32:00 -
[13]
Originally by: King Rothgar alpha all their ships
this
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Achura Model
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Posted - 2010.01.29 00:31:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Achura Model on 29/01/2010 00:31:19 Good blob would be the best tactics. And even though your casualties can be very hard. Sniping HAC gangs with a few guardians are very hard to fight with. 10 Ishtars are 4k+ DPS with 100 km optimal you know. All those heavy irons some people proposed here will die before they get out of bubble...
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Face Lifter
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Posted - 2010.01.29 00:38:00 -
[15]
2-3 Curses, each with 3x neuts
Each Curse should target all the logistics and split neuts between targets.
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Eseay
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Posted - 2010.01.29 02:49:00 -
[16]
hacs and logis?
bs and carriers... after a while they'll stop coming, even if you don't kill them everytime
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Laraella Drougin
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Posted - 2010.01.29 09:07:00 -
[17]
Pilgrims. Lots of them.
With covops for comedy points, and some Falcons for funsies.
Watch the tears as they cant do anything to anyone, and their logis are neuted out double-quick time
Or more cheaply, shove everyone you can muster into a buffer-tanked arbi or vexor and primary the logis, kill one and you're in profit. (Also, damps to stop the spider on everyone)
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The DeathClaw
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Posted - 2010.01.29 13:35:00 -
[18]
Nano canes + Scimis or Long range RR BS.
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LordInvisible
Gallente Nova Ardour
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Posted - 2010.01.29 14:55:00 -
[19]
ohh jezz..
HAC gangs ussualy have nanoed or at least fast logis with them, they usually arr far away from each other.
So bringing curses is moot point. Curses will have to go closer to them, where they will just be primared by HACs.
Ussualy having insta poping RR BS group is not an option either. BSs have to be close range for dps they need, HACs are usually fast and can still shoot at 20km range.
Gang of scorps will help, but which HAC gang will engage 20 scorps anyway? And if they do, they can simply just warp off, since scorps are slow and cannot tackle really good.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote: "For me EvE wasn't that much fun, many ppl refer to it as a nicely designed database front-end and that |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.29 15:05:00 -
[20]
Most fun will be bring your own hacs and logis /armor tanked will usually win - zealots + ishtars/. RR bs gang can work too, but most likely they will disenage. And yes, drakes with logis...
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ACE81
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Posted - 2010.01.29 15:34:00 -
[21]
12 thoraxes with blaters drones and MWDs should do nicely on 3 Hacs :P
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Wraithstorm
Deuses Wild
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:17:00 -
[22]
What is your definition of "beat them"? Do you mean killing them, or do you simply mean minimizing your own losses? I ask this because if the opposing FC is any good you simply wont kill off a speed HAC gang with 3 Scimmies supporting it. You can only hope to make them disengage. The best thing you can do IMO, is keep your fleet alive. That in of itself is a victory.. I recommend an RR BS gang with armor Scorps as ECM support. Now, while the Scorps wont be as effective as they would with a traditional setup they still stand a chance of jamming the logistics ships while you primary anything dumb enough to get into your fleets optimals. They will either get impatient and get too close or they will disengage.. Win?
Alot of times FCs focus on the killmails, and thats ok, but I can tell you from experience that youll get just as much love from the fellas in your fleet (non gay manlove mind you!) by keeping them alive.
You can always go toe to toe with them on a speed gang vs speed gang kinda thing, but you REALLY need to know what your doing. With that Falcons are your friend lol..
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shyla stylez
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Posted - 2010.02.02 01:24:00 -
[23]
By "beat them" I actually mean two things. 1) Don't get your own fleet massacred and have to flee like little girls. 2) Pop atleast 1 or 2 of them before they realise they're going to be massacred and flee like little girls.
Nabbing 1 maybe 2 is realistically all you'll achieve before they gtfo (if their FC is in anyway competent).
I can handle losing ships in my own fleet so long as the other side has a more costly loss (ie: T2 not insurable).
Thanks for the NGML :-)
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GavinGoodrich
Ungrouped Guns
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Posted - 2010.02.02 02:35:00 -
[24]
Edited by: GavinGoodrich on 02/02/2010 02:38:53 Midrange RR BS's (gunboats, not missiles in this fight for various reasons)can swat down any snipe hac if they alpha within optimal and catch one with it's MWD on. (sentry drones, particularly wardens/curators, loooove snipe hac gangs)
5, 4, 3, 2, 1, fire. Pray it's still close to optimal range of your fleet. Snipe hacs that aren't out of your range will have the sig radius of a battleship with the buffer of a BC. Pray you have enough alpha. Or you won't break anything.
If you're not dealing with any falcons or rooks...see if you can swap out the ECCM mods for damps and focus them on 1-2 of the logis (fat chance of getting solid coordination of 2-3 damps on each induvidual logi, on top of everything else the fleet's trying to do)
Bomb squads if they jump through (they'll often be MWD'ing away by then if you time it right), bomb squads using drag bubbles (make them chase you
Try to go around via another system and come in through another gate, land as many of your fleet as close to the logis as you can, attempt to web/scram.
Send a few tackling recons/covops through...if they make it through a gatecamp they can get in relative position to tackle logis mid-fight (and hope have your own logis to back up your recons once they're committed)
Ghost fleet--as they pass through with cloaking dictor/HIC + 10-12 others cloaked off the gate...wait for them to come through induvidually...decloak/bubble the last 1-2 stragglers as the first half of thier fleet enter warp...smash, warp your guys off/cloak (lots of fun)
lots of other tactics. \o |
Englebert Humperdinck
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Posted - 2010.02.02 05:36:00 -
[25]
lol, how do you beat them off? Its all in the wrist action really, keep your grip firm, but not too tight, and make sure you catch it all when they finally let go. |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2010.02.02 08:08:00 -
[26]
the simplest/laziest way to reduce the impact of logis is to carry ecm drones: 5 mediums will wipe out far more repping then 5 medium damage drones will. IMO for a non-bonused ship far-and-away the best use of 50 drone bandwidth is 5 medium ecms, and best use of 75/75 is to carry a flight of medium ecm's and a flight of t2 lights: that they do hilarious things to remote repping is just icing on the cake.
I get consistently primaried whenever I put ecm drones on logistics ships, even when I probably shouldn't be, so it shows its annoying people at least (well, for that or my tendency to earnestly complement the opposing gang in local ).
This isn't a way to beat the gang at all or anything, but, having some people packing ecm drones really does help.
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Achura Model
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Posted - 2010.02.02 17:55:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Achura Model on 02/02/2010 17:57:18
You jump in a system and see a bubble, so you can't warp away, a couple of dozens Ishtars and Zealots on 80km from gates, and a few guardians on 140 km from gates. And wtf are you gonna do? Close to them? You're as good as dead. Run away? You'll lose a few ships for nothing. Fight them? You'll need a pretty big sniping gang. Say a few dozens sniping BSs at least...
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Ellmar
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Posted - 2010.02.03 08:26:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Achura Model Edited by: Achura Model on 02/02/2010 17:57:18
You jump in a system and see a bubble, so you can't warp away, a couple of dozens Ishtars and Zealots on 80km from gates, and a few guardians on 140 km from gates. And wtf are you gonna do? Close to them? You're as good as dead. Run away? You'll lose a few ships for nothing. Fight them? You'll need a pretty big sniping gang. Say a few dozens sniping BSs at least...
well that's not really the situation the rest of us are talking about in this thread..
instead imagine intel tells you ahead of that camp and their setup, you got an equal amount of guys fleeting, your docked and can switch ships as you want, what do you bring.
The options are mainly jump through gate with a long range RR bs fleet and hope not too many crash or try to come in from behind the gate, get a warp in from a cov op and warp in a close range gang.
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Achura Model
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Posted - 2010.02.03 15:28:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Achura Model on 03/02/2010 15:28:51
Originally by: Ellmar
Originally by: Achura Model Edited by: Achura Model on 02/02/2010 17:57:18
You jump in a system and see a bubble, so you can't warp away, a couple of dozens Ishtars and Zealots on 80km from gates, and a few guardians on 140 km from gates. And wtf are you gonna do? Close to them? You're as good as dead. Run away? You'll lose a few ships for nothing. Fight them? You'll need a pretty big sniping gang. Say a few dozens sniping BSs at least...
well that's not really the situation the rest of us are talking about in this thread..
instead imagine intel tells you ahead of that camp and their setup, you got an equal amount of guys fleeting, your docked and can switch ships as you want, what do you bring.
The options are mainly jump through gate with a long range RR bs fleet and hope not too many crash or try to come in from behind the gate, get a warp in from a cov op and warp in a close range gang.
Perhaps it's not what are you talking about but it's the only right HAC gang and the most effective tactics (if you're for a pure effectiveness and not other things like fun etc). For a close or middle range combat you should use drakes/logistics combination.
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Mara Rinn
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Posted - 2010.02.04 06:32:00 -
[30]
Bring ECM - you can give a Blackbird much more range than a HAC or logistics ship. Jam the logistics from 80-100km out, while the rest of the fleet blasts the HACs to smithereens. You don't even need proper jamming - reduce the logistics to 50% duty cycle and they may as well not be on the grid. Warp on grid, target, jam, warp out.
That, and ensuring that your fleet is focussing fire on one target at a time.
You could also try being sneaky, get a covops on grid and move it closer to the logistics ships. Jammer warps to range from the covops so that you're further from the HACs than the logistics are. Then you only have to worry about logistics pilots in scimitars that are zooming around faster than you can catch them.
[Aussie players: join channels ANZAC or AUSSIES] |
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