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Serend
Gallente Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.01.29 21:35:00 -
[1]
My corp is perpetually at war with another (we planned it that way so we have lots of fights). We have a rule against the use of ECM mid slot mods (on all ships) at present, but are considering introducing ECM on a trial basis. Several of us are concerned that ECM will overpower everything else in our usually)small fleet engagements. We have a lot of newer players in our two corps.
I would appreciate hearing from some experienced players on how they cope with enemy ECM in terms of fleet composition, anti-ECM tactics, and any other thoughts on the topic. For example, do you think ECM will make it easier or harder for newer players to learn PVP?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Serend Blue Republic
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Illadelph Justice
The Six-Pack Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.01.29 21:38:00 -
[2]
ECM is a part of pvp, so you might as well use it. The counter? Drones. Lots of drones. ----
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.29 22:01:00 -
[3]
ECM is only dangerous if it's coupled with DPS. You can be jammed or jam till the cows come home, it doesn't matter if theres nothing there that can kill the jammed ship. I wouldn't worry about it overpowering your fleets if some of your guys fit it, it's just one more piece of the puzzle.
So to counter it your ships would jam their ships while you put as much dps and drones on them as you can.
Honestly I believe that jumping into the deep end is best for new players. So learning ECM early on seems like the best option to me. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.29 22:11:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Marko Riva on 29/01/2010 22:12:07 [Caracal, Anti ECM] Damage Control II Signal Amplifier II
10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Extender II Invulnerability Field II ECCM - Gravimetric II ECCM - Gravimetric II
Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missile
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Scare it off, don't be in the big clusterf*ck but warp in a little late. By the time he realises he's not going to get a jam you already fired so many volleys he'll either have to run or grab a new ship.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
Narahn
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Posted - 2010.01.29 22:26:00 -
[5]
In corp-sponsored frigate fights (say 6-10 frigates on each side), I loved my Griffin.
I came to loathe drones and sensor damps with the range script.
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Serend
Gallente Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.01.29 23:32:00 -
[6]
Thanks for your ideas, guys! (...and keep 'em coming)
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Pel Ukken
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2010.01.30 01:23:00 -
[7]
field your own ecm eccm drones range primary ecm boats
and ecm is part of eve. even some missions involve ECM. prohibiting ecm is terribad, since it is so common on the battlefield.
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Kharamete
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Posted - 2010.01.30 02:20:00 -
[8]
Also, you can also get a cloaky pilgrim - decloak within 10km, neut and send in the drones. Pilgrim has the same bonuses for neuts as the curse. It just doesn't have the range, which is compensated by having the ability to warp/travel cloaked.
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Russel Williams
Minmatar Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.30 02:52:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Russel Williams on 30/01/2010 02:52:34
Originally by: Serend My corp is perpetually at war with another (we planned it that way so we have lots of fights). We have a rule against the use of ECM mid slot mods (on all ships) at present, but are considering introducing ECM on a trial basis. Several of us are concerned that ECM will overpower everything else in our usually)small fleet engagements. We have a lot of newer players in our two corps.
I would appreciate hearing from some experienced players on how they cope with enemy ECM in terms of fleet composition, anti-ECM tactics, and any other thoughts on the topic. For example, do you think ECM will make it easier or harder for newer players to learn PVP?
Thanks in advance for your comments.
Serend Blue Republic
You could easily primary the ECM ship depending on its distance/your fleet composition. Its usually best to just blow them up outright or force them off of the field ASAP.
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Doccia Ellicis
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.30 03:53:00 -
[10]
ABSOLUTELY NOT!
There is not a good counter to ECM with small ships like cruisers and frigates.
I'm in Red Federation. I have Electronic Warfare IV and Signal Dispersion IV and I can fly Blackbirds that can lock out 6 T1 frigates at once at 50km away (perma-jam if overheated). If you allow ECM mods, I would be flying Blackbirds 23/7 and making the lives of blue frigate pilots miserable. Legalizing ECM will kill Red v Blue, imo.
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Amat3uR
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Posted - 2010.01.30 05:02:00 -
[11]
+1 for ECM
Can't wait for them to allow it. Which they will soon. I have yet to see a good argument against it. Its almost laughable the reasons they are using right now to not allow it.
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Pel Ukken
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2010.01.30 05:52:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Pel Ukken on 30/01/2010 05:57:05
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 30/01/2010 04:04:30 ABSOLUTELY NOT!
There is not a good counter to ECM with small ships like cruisers and frigates.
I'm in Red Federation. I have Electronic Warfare IV and Signal Dispersion IV and I can fly Blackbirds that can lock out 6 T1 frigates at once from 50km away (perma-jam if overheated). If you allow ECM mods, I would be flying Blackbirds 23/7 and making the lives of blue frigate pilots miserable. Legalizing ECM will kill Red v Blue, imo.
... ok if you want to kill this fool:
arbitrator - nos/sensor booster/point + 5 hammerhead2's
target him, send drones, watch him ecm you, watch drones kill him, see him die or warp out.
vexors work too
edit: snipers work too... in any case if he has all ECM on his mids his tank is going to be negligible.
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Aesynil
Caldari The Unit...
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Posted - 2010.01.30 06:50:00 -
[13]
Sniper ferox with an ECCM can do interesting things, too. and cheap as dirt, as well. You say no battleships, so none of them for sniping, I suppose. A caracal? A moa?
Most ECM pilots are as fragile as a wet paper bag. I have, many, -many- times seen falcons go running in structure / popping horrendously before they can even enter warp, and that was before ECM range was nerfed.
IMO, if you're trying for anything resembling real pvp, you should include ECM. Otherwise, you have a lot of pilots that will not be prepared for the real battlefield when they move on. It's a fact of the game. To go internet meme on you, adapt or die.
Just my .02 ISK :)
The Unit pursues invention, manufacturing, mining, and research. Evemail us if you need anything related to Science and Industry. |
Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2010.01.30 08:49:00 -
[14]
ECM in RvB? Absolutely not.
If it's allowed I will just remove my alt from RvB. I'm on the recieving end of it FAR too often while soloing, and have my alt in RvB for the biggest reason of no ECM. It's an overpowered mechanic in small gang warfare, and that's coming from someone with lvl 5/4's in all ECM skills, and Recon 5.
The less I see of ECM, the better. --------------------------------------------
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2010.01.30 10:29:00 -
[15]
FFS, just use a Caracal or any drone boat. Or if the Blackbird is *****ing about at 70 km, just damp it.
Don't just take a one-dimensional gang of stupidly fit, stupidly piloted short-range T1 cruisers. Fit for specific roles.
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Pel Ukken
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2010.01.30 17:26:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Gypsio III FFS.....
stupidly fit, stupidly piloted short-range T1 cruisers.
^this. it's no PvP if you "undock-f1-f2-f3-f4"
Originally by: Shade Millith ECM in RvB? Absolutely not.
If it's allowed I will just remove my alt from RvB. I'm on the recieving end of it FAR too often while soloing, and have my alt in RvB for the biggest reason of no ECM. It's an overpowered mechanic in small gang warfare, and that's coming from someone with lvl 5/4's in all ECM skills, and Recon 5.
The less I see of ECM, the better.
hmmm... proviblobber with an RvB alt. This is starting to make more and more sense now.
o9 rock on dood! NO to the EE-CEE-EM!
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Forge Trader
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:38:00 -
[17]
A fair number of players, like some posting here, are interested only in tank and gank.
ECM adds a complication these players do not want to deal with, as it is not tank and gank.
This is a perfectly legitimate way to play EvE, as EvE is a sandbox and anyone can play anyway they want.
If RvB players have no goals in Eve but to play gank & tank with each other, great.
But, as some posters point out, EvE has ECM (and a lot of other mechanics). So, if you want to play Eve with anyone other than your RvB friends, you need to learn these so you can either use, or counter, the other mechanics.
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Laraella Drougin
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:50:00 -
[18]
If the ECM is close up, primary it, watch it melt and die, because someone in RvB had bloody better have tackle fit. Yes, hes disabled 6 frigates. And that one blasterax with no eccm just killed him. If hes far off, make sure a couple of people in the same race of cruisers brought damps. oh look, he cant lock you.
Its simplistic, and doesnt work on expert ECMers, but what the hell are those pilots wasting time in RvB doing something they're good at for. its for fun, they should be in comedy neut frigates or something.
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2010.01.30 21:45:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Insa Rexion on 30/01/2010 21:46:01
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 30/01/2010 04:04:30 ABSOLUTELY NOT!
There is not a good counter to ECM with small ships like cruisers and frigates.
I'm in Red Federation. I have Electronic Warfare IV and Signal Dispersion IV and I can fly Blackbirds that can lock out 6 T1 frigates at once from 50km away (perma-jam if overheated). If you allow ECM mods, I would be flying Blackbirds 23/7 and making the lives of blue frigate pilots miserable. Legalizing ECM will kill Red v Blue, imo.
Why ? Is red v blue pvp somehow magically different from the rest of Eve ? (which incidentally appears to be still going strong despite the amount of ZOMG!111\elenty!!11 ECM used on a daily basis.
If Red v Blue cannot survive the introduction of ECM then I think we are forced to consign it to the waste disposal as "thinly veiled KILLMAIL DISPENSOR".
God forbid you actually to think to win --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 22:24:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Merdaneth on 30/01/2010 22:36:41 ECM is fairly balanced, you don't have to be afraid it will overpower one party or the other
ECM is just not a lot of fun for the jammed party generally, so if you are looking for exciting fights (and not sitting and watching for 20 secs until the server makes another die roll) then I would seriously suggest you keep ECM out of your 'friendly' wars.
If I'm in a small ship a hostile in a specialized ECM ship to me is a big sign of "don't engage unless you can gank me before I can get a jam on"
That's how I cope with ECM in small ships. Gank the ECM vessel fast, or ignore them.
EDIT: Red vs. Blue is about going down with your guns firing, not about waiting until the computer decides its your turn again to participate in the fight ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
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Smabs
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Posted - 2010.01.31 00:20:00 -
[21]
ECM does pretty much kill a solo pilot in Eve, given that they'll have three or four ecm mods on them, pretty much permajamming any single target other than a BS with ECCM. There's not really any way around that. So going solo generally means avoiding ecm as much as possible.
As for small gangs with t1 cruisers I guess you could use super long range HML caracals to outrange them (I'm thinking if the enemy gang just has a single bb or rook or something). Sensor boosted droneboats to get a lock and knock them off the field would work. A bunch of battleships with eccm too I suppose, although I don't think that's really in the spirit of RvB.
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Wraithstorm
Deuses Wild
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Posted - 2010.01.31 00:35:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Wraithstorm on 31/01/2010 00:35:26
As an FC I will typically assign a fast moving HAC/RECON/Cruiser the task of dealing with any enemy ECM ship BEFORE the engagment. What you tell the pilot to do is burn straight for the ECM boat, ignoring your primary, and simply melt the ECM boat. I favor drone boats because if your drones aggro the ECM ship BEFORE he jams you your drones keep shooting even if you are jammed. Now, the ECM boat will do one of the 3 things:
1- Warp off 2- Jam the incoming heat seeker (which is good because then hes not jamming your DPS) 3- Die
I have been very successful in engagements using this tactic, and I hope it helps you
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Doccia Ellicis
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.31 00:50:00 -
[23]
Yeah, you can counter it if you have sufficient resources.
In RvB, the average fleet consists of masses of frigates plus a few cruisers/bcs. If you introduce ECM, EVE Online will become Count-down Timer Online for the frigate pilots. Sure, eventually these frigate pilots will adapt and get into cruisers, but that will spell doom for the cheap pvp hook of RvB.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:13:00 -
[24]
I never knew there were rules like this in RvB. Makes me very glad I'm in FW. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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dtyk
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:21:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Yeah, you can counter it if you have sufficient resources.
In RvB, the average fleet consists of masses of frigates plus a few cruisers/bcs. If you introduce ECM, EVE Online will become Count-down Timer Online for the frigate pilots. Sure, eventually these frigate pilots will adapt and get into cruisers, but that will spell doom for the cheap pvp hook of RvB.
They can adapt in frigates. Next you will forbid the use of DPS ships in RvB, because someone might have to fit a tank to counter it...
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Doccia Ellicis
Caldari Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:23:00 -
[26]
Originally by: dtyk
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Yeah, you can counter it if you have sufficient resources.
In RvB, the average fleet consists of masses of frigates plus a few cruisers/bcs. If you introduce ECM, EVE Online will become Count-down Timer Online for the frigate pilots. Sure, eventually these frigate pilots will adapt and get into cruisers, but that will spell doom for the cheap pvp hook of RvB.
They can adapt in frigates.
Oh they can, eh? Propose a counter.
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Smabs
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Posted - 2010.01.31 01:25:00 -
[27]
You can counter ecm with cruisers or above. I don't see it happening with frigates.
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Pel Ukken
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2010.01.31 03:19:00 -
[28]
Edited by: Pel Ukken on 31/01/2010 03:23:09
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis
Originally by: dtyk
Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Yeah, you can counter it if you have sufficient resources.
In RvB, the average fleet consists of masses of frigates plus a few cruisers/bcs. If you introduce ECM, EVE Online will become Count-down Timer Online for the frigate pilots. Sure, eventually these frigate pilots will adapt and get into cruisers, but that will spell doom for the cheap pvp hook of RvB.
They can adapt in frigates.
Oh they can, eh? Propose a counter.
... i'm guessing all you did was read every other word in every third post in this thread...
i'm not gonna quote myself so i'll quote someone else:
Originally by: Wraithstorm Edited by: Wraithstorm on 31/01/2010 00:35:26
As an FC I will typically assign a fast moving HAC/RECON/Cruiser the task of dealing with any enemy ECM ship BEFORE the engagment. What you tell the pilot to do is burn straight for the ECM boat, ignoring your primary, and simply melt the ECM boat. I favor drone boats because if your drones aggro the ECM ship BEFORE he jams you your drones keep shooting even if you are jammed. Now, the ECM boat will do one of the 3 things:
1- Warp off 2- Jam the incoming heat seeker (which is good because then hes not jamming your DPS) 3- Die
I have been very successful in engagements using this tactic, and I hope it helps you
ffs. you doodz need to LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME. people are giving you several excellent options to counter the use of ECM in PvP and all you can respond is nonsense. in light of this i propose you stop permitting the following modules in RvB:
high slots mid slots low slots drones rigs ships other than pods
have a nice day
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Demolishar
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Posted - 2010.01.31 04:10:00 -
[29]
1. ECM is reintroduced 2. Massive use of ECM 3. Massive use of ECCM 4. People stop bothering with ECM cause there's too much ECCM 5. People stop bothering with ECCM cause there's no ECM 6. We're back at square one.
Just leave it banned, IMO.
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Pel Ukken
Vitharr's Vengeance
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Posted - 2010.01.31 04:48:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Demolishar 1. ECM is reintroduced 2. Massive use of ECM 3. Massive use of ECCM 4. People stop bothering with ECM cause there's too much ECCM 5. People stop bothering with ECCM cause there's no ECM 6. We're back at square one.
Just leave it banned, IMO.
you just don't get it do you? ECCM isn't the only way to counter ECM.
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