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EatMoreBeans
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Posted - 2010.01.30 12:56:00 -
[1]
Finally we have a ship that is perfect. Fun to fly, easy to skill for and able to take on ships of all classes, its of course fotm.
Becuase its a frigate anyone can train for it and be fairly competant in under a month and its expensive and limited in production enough to make it worth its price.
Please for the love of god CCP let us enjoy it and dont waive around the ban hammer and listen to the crying people whine, its a good ship yes but its far from infallable and even good pilots regularly die.
IMO eve needs more of these ships that are truly a joy to fly. If you have to do something then give the other faction / navy frigs a boost (less mass on the imp slicer and worm pls).
To all the dram pilots out there gl and gf o/
To all the none dram pilots, get training folks, you wont regret it.
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Catherine Frasier
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Posted - 2010.01.30 13:14:00 -
[2]
Originally by: EatMoreBeans Finally we have a ship that is perfect. Fun to fly, easy to skill for and able to take on ships of all classes, its of course fotm.
Becuase its a frigate anyone can train for it and be fairly competant in under a month
That sounds exactly like the nerf checklist to me.
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.30 13:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: EatMoreBeans able to take on ships of all classes
Just FYI, this isn't a good thing… ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Seraph Castillon
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.30 13:19:00 -
[4]
-It is only "a joy to fly" because it is superior. Adding more ships with similar capabilities will just set higher standards for everything and take away what you find fun about the ship now.
-Imo there's nothing fun about an I win ship.
-It completely takes over the niche of the Taranis and surpasses it, reducing a once great ship to a cheaper alternative to the Dramiel.
-It does not need to be nerfed. It needs to be balanced. A ship that seems to combine the AF and Interceptor classes, but is better than both?! Can't be right.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.01.30 13:33:00 -
[5]
It's a pirate ship. You pay for the privilege of flying it.
Speaking of, I have 5 I am selling for 75 mil each, in Jita. Contact me if interested.
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achoura
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa It's a pirate ship. You pay for the privilege of flying it.
Careful, you might confuse people Anyway, I haven't seen anyone complaining about daredevils which, ironcially, is actually the tranis competitor. 375 dps on a frig and not a peep. A frig going inty speeds, heaven forbid ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
achoura
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:08:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Seraph Castillon
-It completely takes over the niche of the Taranis and surpasses it, reducing a once great ship to a cheaper alternative to the Dramiel.
Yes, you're right. My 380 dps blaster daredevil couldn't possible compete with a taranis
The thing about speed is, despite what people may think, these 10km/s dramiels just get shredded by any half competent pilot. People are still fixated on raw speed alone because they can all match it easily. A fast ship with a poor pilot is a poor ship.
Daredevils are the direct sideline to the humble tranis, matches it's speed and does alot more damage with a 90% web but obviously the dramiel must be broken because it goes faster (hint - all angel ships doo) and gets an extra few drones over the stiletto/jag which incidentally, happen to come from the race the angels are primerally based on. ***The EVE servers and their patches*** |
Kapse Locke
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Posted - 2010.01.30 14:54:00 -
[8]
Any moment now,
BECAUSE OF DRAMIEL
amirite?
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CrazySpaceHobo
Caldari Mysterys Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 15:49:00 -
[9]
Caracals entering thread. They would like to have words with your dramiels.
But seriously, a ship that is "perfect", "easy to skill for", "can take on ships of all classes" and ESPECIALLY "fotm" is just asking for a visit by the nerfbat. Those attributes basically add up to "Overpowered".
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EatMoreBeans
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Posted - 2010.01.30 16:42:00 -
[10]
why does the prevailig opinion in eve mean that every ship type should have an equal in all four races. There should be ships that are amazing in their class. The point is its fun to fly and everyone can fly it. Whats the problem?
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chrisss0r
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Posted - 2010.01.30 16:48:00 -
[11]
one suggestion:
when u come to the point where u have the amazing idea (and every ****ing noob comes to that point) of
a) a ship with a mini doomsday device able to 1 shot a bs b) a bigger bomber that can kill capitals
just keep your fingers still and don't post it here
ontopic: No there should not be a specific ship in a class you have to fly in order to have fun. All the ships should be balanced and the fun should come from competing in player skill
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CrazySpaceHobo
Caldari Mysterys Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 17:04:00 -
[12]
I think my Ibis should have a 8/8/8 slot layout, be able to fit multiple DDD's and have 8/8 turret launcher hardpoints.
Oh, and have 3,000,000 EHP
And require only caldari frigate I to fly.
This ship will be able to fit any weapon system you want, be easy and fun to fly, and can take on ships of any class.
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Psychotic Maniac
Caldari Head Shrinkers
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Posted - 2010.01.30 17:24:00 -
[13]
dram can take on any class ships? LOL
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Trader20
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Posted - 2010.01.30 17:59:00 -
[14]
large neut or ecm, did I win?
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Intigo
Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2010.01.30 18:13:00 -
[15]
P. sure this is troll thread and really just set up as bait for CCP as "proof" of the "fact" that Dramiel needs a nerf. ___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Veldsparmonster
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Posted - 2010.01.30 18:18:00 -
[16]
Deadly ... check
Difficult to counter with similar sized ship ... check
All the suggested ways of killing one involve blobbing it ... check
And you're suggesting that people should train for it?
Surely you should be warning people against training for it, to see all their hard work get nerfed?
Quote: Death to the blob!
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:22:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Veldsparmonster All the suggested ways of killing one involve blobbing it ... check
yes, a couple of energy neutralizers and a swarm of T2 warriors do need a blob to be deployed.
....damn, my curse must be a pocket blob! and it has TD's! DEAR GOD WE'RE DOOMED! THIS BLOB HAS EWAR! TO THE NERFMOBILE!
also:
Quote: Surely you should be warning people against training for it, to see all their hard work get nerfed?
omg, I shouldn't train minmatar frigate 5 and gallente frigate 5, and small proj 5, since they are ONLY usefull to fly the dramiel! You really shouldn't train it, if you don't want to be hit by the nerfhammer!
---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:35:00 -
[18]
People made the same arguments about pre-nerf Falcons, "anyone can fly them so they can't be unbalanced!". Maybe people want to be able to fly frigates in PvP without knowing that if they come across a Dramiel they're screwed?
The fact you even post a thread like this probably means it needs to be looked at, really.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Durzel People made the same arguments about pre-nerf Falcons, "anyone can fly them so they can't be unbalanced!". Maybe people want to be able to fly frigates in PvP without knowing that if they come across a Dramiel they're screwed?
The fact you even post a thread like this probably means it needs to be looked at, really.
yeah but a falcon can take a crapload of ships out of combat, and what can a dramiel do?
I mean kill frigates, and be fast, and... what? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:47:00 -
[20]
It can kill practically every frigate that isn't fit specifically to counter it, which I imagine is a bit of a deal breaker if you enjoy flying frigates in PvP.
I'm not saying it's on par with Falcon, I'm saying when people are saying things like "it should be the best it costs XX" or even posting threads like this - it speaks volumes really.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Durzel It can kill practically every frigate that isn't fit specifically to counter it, which I imagine is a bit of a deal breaker if you enjoy flying frigates in PvP.
I'm not saying it's on par with Falcon, I'm saying when people are saying things like "it should be the best it costs XX" or even posting threads like this - it speaks volumes really.
so....? ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Lugalzagezi666
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Posted - 2010.01.30 19:57:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Grimpak so....?
Nerf to hell!
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.30 20:18:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Originally by: Grimpak so....?
Nerf to hell!
yeah, well that's the problem.
knowing CCP, they will nerf the dramiel untill it's just a noob ship on steroids. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Ninlarra
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Posted - 2010.01.30 20:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: EatMoreBeans Finally we have a ship that is perfect. Fun to fly, easy to skill for and able to take on ships of all classes, its of course fotm.
Becuase its a frigate anyone can train for it and be fairly competant in under a month and its expensive and limited in production enough to make it worth its price.
Please for the love of god CCP let us enjoy it and dont waive around the ban hammer and listen to the crying people whine, its a good ship yes but its far from infallable and even good pilots regularly die.
IMO eve needs more of these ships that are truly a joy to fly. If you have to do something then give the other faction / navy frigs a boost (less mass on the imp slicer and worm pls).
To all the dram pilots out there gl and gf o/
To all the none dram pilots, get training folks, you wont regret it.
Good job shooting yourself in the foot there slick
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Dusica
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Posted - 2010.01.30 20:43:00 -
[25]
Makes no sense to go 10k ( overloaded 7k default or so ) and do good dps have drones and have better tank and agility the any ceptor.
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Cambarus
The Compass Reloaded
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Posted - 2010.01.30 20:44:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Cambarus on 30/01/2010 20:48:08 Remove a midslot, and maybe add a low to compensate.
Biggest issue with the dramiel is the viability of dual prop setups, which are essentially what allow it to engage almost anything and win, or at the very least GTFO. A frigate that is absolutely amazing at killing other frigs is perfectly acceptable if other ship classes can nuke it, the problem lies in the fact that with dual props it can easily orbit under the guns of any cruiser, even while dual webbed, and then go 7km/s+ once it's out of scram range.
So, remove one midslot, and force it to either be vulnerable to cruisers, or vulnerable to frigs (giving up MSE for secon prop mod). Problem solved without making the ship totally useless.
EDIT: despite this being my first time actually flying the FOTM that everyone and their dog wants to see nerfed, I'm going to say the same thing about this that I did about falcons, and nanoships before that:
Rather than arguing about whether or not it SHOULD be nerfed, it would be much better for those involved to discuss HOW it should be nerfed. It WILL get nerfed, it's just a matter of time once you see a ship being used so frequently in pvp and so many people complaining about them. The trick, instead of sitting there saying it shouldn't get nerfed, is to come up with a REASONABLE nerf that doesn's make the ship useless, and to continue pushing for it. CCP will ignore people saying it shouldn't get nerfed, but if enough people agree on a decent middle ground then they're much more likely to listen. |
Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.30 22:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Cambarus EDIT: despite this being my first time actually flying the FOTM that everyone and their dog wants to see nerfed, I'm going to say the same thing about this that I did about falcons, and nanoships before that:
Rather than arguing about whether or not it SHOULD be nerfed, it would be much better for those involved to discuss HOW it should be nerfed. It WILL get nerfed, it's just a matter of time once you see a ship being used so frequently in pvp and so many people complaining about them. The trick, instead of sitting there saying it shouldn't get nerfed, is to come up with a REASONABLE nerf that doesn's make the ship useless, and to continue pushing for it. CCP will ignore people saying it shouldn't get nerfed, but if enough people agree on a decent middle ground then they're much more likely to listen.
and in reply to that, the only thing I can see that should be nerfed, is the dronebay. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Mahke
Aeon Of Strife
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Posted - 2010.01.30 22:22:00 -
[28]
The problem (or joy, if you're the one flying them as opposed to the one fighting them) of the dramiel is that its an old-school nanoship: sure you can drive it away, but, it doesn't have to commit to fights thanks to speed + dual prop, and good luck catching or killing one (yes, it's doable, but, doing so relies on the pilot screwing up).
The argument that the daredevil is about as good (albeit for different reasons) and doesn't draw the same complaints is a red herring. The daredevil is indirectly nerfed by coming from extremely hard to farm serpentis lp: there is a single level 3 and 4 kill agent, both in curse, both at about 0 quality. The dramiel isn't price/supply nerfed nearly as much: angels LP is much more easy to acquire (both fountain and curse, a plethora of decent kill agents out there). Also, a ship thats very good at killing things is a lot more fun to fight against than a ship thats nearly impossible to kill.
Which in the end is why the dramiel probably will be nerfed eventually: because its very hard to kill, can be supplied in reasonable numbers, and fun to fly LOTS of people will fly them; because they are extremely unfun to fight against and because lots of people will fly them (and already do, you see them quite frequently in npc 0.0) they degrade the game experience for non-pilots, which will draw CCP's attention and a nerf eventually.
It's basically the entire nano dilemma reborn.
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Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.01.30 22:58:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Cambarus Rather than arguing about whether or not it SHOULD be nerfed, it would be much better for those involved to discuss HOW it should be nerfed.
Some of the bigger issues I have with it are: Mass is significantly lower than the supposedly lightest ships around (Interceptors). Base speed is higher than the supposedly fastest ships around (Interceptors). Agility is better than the supposedly most agile ships around (Interceptors). It has drones. It has a tracking bonus, arguably the most potent bonus for small craft. It has a more than perfect slot layout. Small ACs are now the single best [S] weapon system in game thanks to ammo changes. Amplified by ship bonuses.
Need I go on?
Dramiel is everything one could want in a ship, which is why I am *****ing .. I have been around the block one too may times to know when something is too good to be true. Focus it on the speed/agility.
So you see, there is plenty of options available to bring it in line with the other pirate boats.
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LiNuXb0y
Amarr Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2010.01.30 23:09:00 -
[30]
**** son, there is a 70 mill frig that can kill my 5 mill frig...................I know lets nerf it
Only way most of you imbeciles will be happy is to have exactly the same ship with different skins
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