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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 89 post(s) |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.06.26 17:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
As there has now been an acknowledgement of player issues with the moderation, would CCP please un ban those accounts that took part in the protest. Getting a perma ban for some junk threads, compared to some of the stuff I have seen on the forums is harsh.
Tal
Yes I have petitioned.
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.06.26 17:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:Holy One wrote:You don't need to tell someone they are offended or arbitrarily isolate them from the risk of being 'upset' by someone else on a forum. Let people determine who is and who isn't annoying and/or offending them. They can ignore, filter and disseminate their own prejudices, based on their *own* subjective perspective. We don't need a ministry of thought control (ISD) deciding for us.
To attempt to conceal this *epic* paradigm shift in the cuddly in-offensive blanket of 'just trying to make it friendlier' is insulting to anyone's intelligence Herr Navigator.
Censorship = suppression. That is what you are advocating. Above and beyond. And it is not (and never has been) motivated by altruism! I am pretty sure we are polemically split on what we feel is required in terms of censorship. If there is not a rule set in place on a forum then why should people not post ****, trojans, malware and other stuff. Why should people not be outright hostile, menacing and threatening? Why should a productive discussion ever happen in that type of atmosphere? Perhaps you feel those should not be censored and people should survive on their ability to be savvy or not, as the case may be. Believe me when I say, and you can quote me on this, players who do not want to be part of fair and reasonable discussions on these forums will soon find they do not belong on this discussion area at all. that is not designed to be a threat or convey a sense of malice but is intended to show our resolve to create a much more amiable atmosphere for players and developers in general.
Yet ppl that have mostly added to the discussion, Ruby Porto for example (although I disagree with what he says most of the time) have been perma banned for just posting joke threads as a protest.
They weren't being abusive, posting malware, RMT, menacing or trolling each other, actually saw ppl coming together that normally would not, because they care about the subject.
Why so heavy handed ?
Tal
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
5
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Posted - 2012.06.26 18:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Navigator wrote:Rats wrote:CCP Navigator wrote:Holy One wrote:You don't need to tell someone they are offended or arbitrarily isolate them from the risk of being 'upset' by someone else on a forum. Let people determine who is and who isn't annoying and/or offending them. They can ignore, filter and disseminate their own prejudices, based on their *own* subjective perspective. We don't need a ministry of thought control (ISD) deciding for us.
To attempt to conceal this *epic* paradigm shift in the cuddly in-offensive blanket of 'just trying to make it friendlier' is insulting to anyone's intelligence Herr Navigator.
Censorship = suppression. That is what you are advocating. Above and beyond. And it is not (and never has been) motivated by altruism! I am pretty sure we are polemically split on what we feel is required in terms of censorship. If there is not a rule set in place on a forum then why should people not post ****, trojans, malware and other stuff. Why should people not be outright hostile, menacing and threatening? Why should a productive discussion ever happen in that type of atmosphere? Perhaps you feel those should not be censored and people should survive on their ability to be savvy or not, as the case may be. Believe me when I say, and you can quote me on this, players who do not want to be part of fair and reasonable discussions on these forums will soon find they do not belong on this discussion area at all. that is not designed to be a threat or convey a sense of malice but is intended to show our resolve to create a much more amiable atmosphere for players and developers in general. Yet ppl that have mostly added to the discussion, Ruby Porto for example (although I disagree with what he says most of the time) have been perma banned for just posting joke threads as a protest. They weren't being abusive, posting malware, RMT, menacing or trolling each other, actually saw ppl coming together that normally would not, because they care about the subject. Why so heavy handed ? Tal I have no intention of discussing specific cases on the forums. You stated that you already have a petition on the subject so a Community Rep will be in otuch when we get to that in the queue.
Ok no specifics then, why is such a casual offence worth a perma ban. Is there a list of punishments to go against certain forum activities, rather than a general rule that is applied inconsistently depending on how someone feels about life that day ?
Tal
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.06.29 09:11:00 -
[4] - Quote
Is this thread being stealth deleted. I posted in response to another, which now seems to have disappeared ?
Bad show?
Tal
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
31
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Posted - 2012.06.29 22:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Crunchie Attuxors wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:My post was not an attack on you Crunchie, so I apologise if it seemed I was doing so. I did read what you wrote, and I should have made it clearer that I was agreeing with you. It is just a shame that other people are so willing to hold back proper discussion. Now all that needs to be done is to stop talking about making those rules and actually start drawing up some EDIT: Not an excuse, but I'm just feeling rather tired, hence my lack of clarity in my previous post. Ok, I am sorry for being curt, but I am indeed interested on this become a better forum, and are a bit tired of people not reading and just metagaming... I happily accept your apology, even though you didn't really need to And we definitely agree on what needs to happen, now lets hope other people get on board.
Ahhhh true love ...
Tal
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:I think this thread has pretty much come to a shuddering halt now. It's all a matter of waiting and seeing if there's improvement. There isn't. We've gone 17 pages and what was your last comment about? Shirts. We have gone 17 pages to precisely no-where. Oh by all means have this thread locked. That would solve all the problems. Honestly a much bigger part of this thread than discussion of shirts, has been two people trying to overwhelm and dismiss as irrelevant the concerns of many others. While I am interested in valid discussion and your counterpoints, I find your attempts to squelch the conversation transparent and counterproductive. I suggest you re-examine what I said carefully. I am not trying to have the thread locked, nor am I attempting to squelch the conversation. I am merely pointing out that at the moment the conversation seems to have gotten stuck in a loop, thus it is not progressing, thus it is not really a discussion but merely a cyclical argument. And as far as I can tell, and I have been keeping a very close eye on this thread as well as participating, no-one is trying to dismiss peoples concerns, it is just that now that we know what peoples concerns are, there is no need to constantly repeat them. What we need is to draw up a concise list of issues that CCP and the ISD can assess and address, something we have so far failed to do because too many people are content with said cyclical argument.
That's where all discussions (bar a few) on the forums end up, in circles. You say no one is dismissing peeps concerns but last time I looked you where ignoring mine and others as empty rants at CCP (even though it was those actions that started this thread)
This thread need to stay as a continuing dialogue with ISD anyway's.
I also think ISD have already changed tack, lot less locking going on, threads I would have expected to be locked arn't.
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Rats wrote:
That's where all discussions (bar a few) on the forums end up, in circles. You say no one is dismissing peeps concerns but last time I looked you where ignoring mine and others as empty rants at CCP (even though it was those actions that started this thread)
This thread need to stay as a continuing dialogue with ISD anyway's.
I also think ISD have already changed tack, lot less locking going on, threads I would have expected to be locked arn't.
Tal
I have ignored no-one, in fact I have been paying close attention to those people who are making suggestions for changes. The people I tend to end up dismissing are those who just keep reiterating what the initial problem was. If you care to take a look at some of my other posts elsewhere on the forums, you would see that I had actually held Ruby up as an example of someone who had gone from empty ranting, to contributing. You may also note the suggestion I made in that post of mine you quoted, where I pointed out that what we need people to do now is make a distinct list of their grievances along with possible changes to address those grievances. How can you or anyone else expect CCP or the ISD to comment in here, when there is still nothing concrete for them to work from?
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Did your browser just eat your post?
It does often grrrrr
Tal
p.s its bottom of previous page. -áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
69
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Posted - 2012.07.03 17:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
Cutter Isaacson wrote:Rats wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:Did your browser just eat your post? It does often grrrrr Tal Google Chrome by any chance?
Yep
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
75
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Posted - 2012.07.07 10:34:00 -
[10] - Quote
I see common sense is still a work in progress ...
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
103
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Posted - 2012.07.16 15:01:00 -
[11] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
Ah, the Ostrich method of detecting wrongdoing.
It seems the only person trying to start something here is you. The rest of us here (CCP included) recognize that the ISD team made mistakes. Because of that recognition, they can improve their behavior, and it looks a lot like they're working on improving their behavior.
Yelling that they didn't need to change in the first place isn't constructive at this point. But hey, Authority is always right, huh.
lol, you say I'm doing the Ostrich method of detecting wrongdoing? Quite frankly, there's only been a couple rare occurrences of mistakes made by the CCL presented in this thread by a very small group of players. Seems the one here trying to start something is you acting like Chicken Little running around yelling "The Sky Is Falling", constantly trying to incite others to join in the crusade, claiming there's been a multitude of unjustified acts of moderation committed.
No This thread is hear due to player actions caused by ISD moderation. CCP has apologised, so why are you ignoring those facts rather than arguing already moot points ?
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2012.08.03 07:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:I would like to remind you that discussions of warnings, bans or other specific moderation actions are not allowed on our forums. However, you can contact always the EVE Community team via the petition system in case of serious questions regarding specific moderation actions. 1) I understand that rule, and the rationale behind it, but this thread has been ignoring that rule for a bit with plenty of ISD interaction giving the impression that this thread's tacitly exempt. 2) We don't trust the black hole that is the petition system. IMHO, Public Commentary is the best way to achieve improvement. (In the past, CCP has shown that Public Commentary has been the only way to get results.) 3) The posts you left un-culled (i.e. all of the positive response to specific good moderation actions) are interesting. 4) In any discussion, having examples is the only way to not sound like a wavering ninny. "I feel that some threads are being locked without needing to be, but I can't say which, and I can't discuss why they might have been locked, nor how they might be better treated in the future" does not make for high minded discussion.
This, leaving only positive discussion in a thread that was opened to allow the community to discuss moderation after ISD went a bit overboard turns this into a "ra ra ISD" thread rather than a two way discussion.
CCP moderation so full of fail ( See I didn't mention anything specific there), that's what you get when you don't allow examples to be discussed.
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2012.08.03 09:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
rodyas wrote:They are trying to improve the forums through trust. We don't need examples because we TRUST you. When you said ISD moderation is bad, they trust you and believe so.
See there is no reason for examples.
I almost like their moderation, since they only lock threads, instead of banning people. I propably would have been banned in WOW for the stuff I have said in here. But here I only faced total eraser for it. My mind is turning more into total recall with every passing ISD punishment.
Err no they do ban ppl, and what are you talking about Trust ? what has that got to do with it ??
If I'm going to argue a point I'll back it up with examples as you would normally do with a discussion, and no they don't believe us as it took a forum rebellion before they started talking to us after we told them that certain aspects of their moderation was flawed.
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
119
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Posted - 2012.08.03 11:29:00 -
[14] - Quote
rodyas wrote:But in a way your not banned. You are letting them know who you are. The same poster who was banned. But they let you keep posting anyhow.
That is the total eraser part. Here you are still talking, but nothing from your past identity is present or can be found.
p.s. Have they forced you to confess your sins to CCP navigator yet, for you to get unbanned?
"I would like to remind you that discussions of warnings, bans or other specific moderation actions are not allowed on our forums"
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2012.08.07 18:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:
*There was a thread before the initial kerfuffle whose OP got edited multiple times by ISDs to the point where it didn't reflect the OP's intent at all, then moved to an inappropriate place, then one of the CCP's told the OP that he posted in the wrong place and should fix his OP.
Thats just funny, sure it wasn't a mod having a giggle
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
124
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Posted - 2012.08.08 08:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Maybe you could get skills for the forums
Forum Tanking, 10% chance of posts not getting edited per lvl Forum Editing, 10% chance of editing someone else s post successfully per lvl Forum Trolling, 10% chance of not getting posts deleted per lvl
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
126
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Posted - 2012.08.09 21:13:00 -
[17] - Quote
Quaaid wrote:Bring back ISD Banhammer. They were the hero that the Forums deserved.
You know if it was a film Arnold Schwarzenegger would play the part of ISD Banhammer, I can just hear him saying it .....
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
150
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Posted - 2012.08.21 07:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
rodyas wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:ISD Eshtir wrote:I think we all can agree that 3 threads of this nature are enough in General Discussion. I-¦m sure the majority of forum users dont want to see the first page of GD consisting of "What is the avatar ...." threads.
However, you are welcome to file a petition under the "community" tab to have your case looked into by a CCP employee. I think his point is "Why those 3 Specific Threads?" and "Why any of those threads, since you're admitting that threads of that nature don't belong in GD by locking other threads of that nature." And I'd say that the nature and application (or not) of rules that govern our behavior here is a matter of public interest and thus should be discussed publicly (since posting petition replies is a no-no, petitions don't fit that bill). Of course, one would have to be slightly educated to discuss the nature and applications (or not) of rules that govern behavior. And you have already stated earlier in this thread, you have no interest in education. So just getting anything you want easily, has been something you have brown nosed already in other threads. So I am not sure how to help you out really.
Didn't see where he was asking fro your help, as your not ISD but another pleb like the rest of us. Funny did Pipa upset you at some point, as your post came across as "you mad bro" to use the local vernacular ?
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
192
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Posted - 2012.09.07 07:55:00 -
[19] - Quote
Why aren't ISD consistent, i see quite minor infractions banned ore locked yet when a player says that another should "die badly" its ignored ?
ISD have been in the thread to move it but seemed to ignore the off topic, no content trolling which is very offensive and slightly creepy tbh
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1890739#post1890739
P.S that thread should not have been moved as you have now killed it, and it was a general discussion on solo play. Please move it back, or be consistent and move every thread discussing the game and how it should be played into the Ideas forum.
Tal -áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
206
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Posted - 2012.09.10 11:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:Rats wrote:Why aren't ISD consistent, i see quite minor infractions banned or locked yet when a player says that another should "die badly" its ignored ? ISD have been in the thread to move it but seemed to ignore the off topic, no content trolling which is very offensive and slightly creepy tbh https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1890739#post1890739P.S that thread should not have been moved as you have now killed it, and it was a general discussion on solo play. Please move it back, or be consistent and move every thread discussing the game and how it should be played into the Ideas forum. Tal It is possible to miss a post. Thats why, if I find something that I would moderate if I were an ISD, I use the report feature.
Bully for you, but as ISD already came back to me in this thread that is here to discuss moderation then your input isn't needed.
Thanks anyway
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
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Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
239
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Posted - 2012.09.18 12:32:00 -
[21] - Quote
RomeStar wrote:Answer me this... I recetnly commented on a post about F2P inwhich I mentioned World Of Tanks and how much fun it is to play then I typed "W_O_P" with no space between letters which stands for World of Planes and guess what it was censored. Why was that censored on my post Im really curious. I understand some moderation but for crying out loud
W_O_P also a nick name for Italians, probably why is blocked, in this PC gone mad world. I want Peter from Family Guy moderating .... down with PC takes the humor out of life......
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
241
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Posted - 2012.09.19 23:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
Pipa Porto wrote:So I did promise earlier in the tread to try to call out what I consider to be good moderation. I realized I haven't really been doing that. Squeaky wheels and kicks and all that.
So, without further ado, I want to call out ISD Dorrim Barstorlode. He seems to get what the third letter in your title means: CCL (Community Communications Liaison). Liaison means that the first job is to interact positively with the target of your Liaising (what an odd word), and that's something ISD DB (because there are just too many "r"s in his name to spell) does very well, frequently posting in threads as a positive contributor rather than simply reporting on what moderation action he's performed. In addition to being an effective Liaison, his judicious use of of his moderation powers have given him this spot on CCL Team Member of the [Indeterminate Time Period].
Liaising, wwoooooo look at you, with your big words
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
265
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Posted - 2012.10.09 08:12:00 -
[23] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:This thread has fulfilled its purpose. It is about time to unsticky it as it has derailed in such a fashion that hurts the initial message we wanted to bring across. Yes we are still going through the growing pains and yes there is still room to improve, but this has become something else entirely.
The CCL seminar that Navigator mentioned will be held this week with the exact time and date to be announced later.
Has it, I thought this thread was to be an ongoing discussion between the player base and the mods if things go sour and was put into place as there wasn't a forum for this type of discussion before.
Are you saying that as far as your (CCP) concerned the discussion is finished ? which goes against why this thread was created in the first place.
Does feel like your trying to bury it.
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
265
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Posted - 2012.10.09 20:31:00 -
[24] - Quote
Anslo wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:So where's the stickied thread to replace this as a place to discuss moderation? I said you wanted to bury the topic, not explode it (as locking or deleting it would). In the meantime, how has this thread "fulfilled its purpose" of CCP Navigator wrote:Finally, the Community team will be locking the myriad of threads on criticizing ISD. You can direct all comments to this thread only as this is the only one we will be following and answering. Because people like you turned something that could be potentially civilized and engage in constructive criticism instead utilized passive aggressive methods of communication and outright blasting the ISD and CCP. Did they make mistakes? Yes, sure crap went down and they are trying to rectify it. But then you and others come along just blasting them instead of trying to do something constructive. It's a wonder this doesn't just get locked (and I hope it does). Discussing forum moderation technically isn't even allowed. This is CCP's forum, not yours. If they have ISD running some parts of it, and the ISD mess up, that isn't your que to just bash CCP and ISD. If you're going to criticize, do it with civility. Otherwise, kindly shut the **** up. You were previously civil and analytical in your posts here and I agreed with a lot you said, now you're just being an *******. A paragon like example of all that is wrong with the Eve Community.
Oh please ........ you have your head so far up there a**, I'm truly surprised you can see to read let alone write this drivel
Tal -áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
265
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Posted - 2012.10.09 20:33:00 -
[25] - Quote
Anslo wrote:III ZiggyBang wrote:CCP Navigator wrote:Pipa Porto wrote:
Any news on the ISDs new self appointed ability to create rules?
Here is the only rule you really need to be concerned about.: When you run the EVE Community team you can make all the rules you like and enforce them as you see fit. Until that time we would invite you to follow the current forum rules and show some respect to those staff and volunteers who aim to make it a better place for everyone else. If that is something you feel is not within your power then we may have a problem. we have a problem all right, if you think the community is well served by the volunteers & your attitude you're out of your volcan mind. Can you blame him with all the crap the community gives him? There's a difference between tyrannical devs and devs reacting to an assholish community. Rules are simple in respect to what Navigator said. You respect employees AND volunteers. No exceptions. Their forums. Their rules. Can't deal with it? GTFO.
CCP Alt ?
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
Rats
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
266
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Posted - 2012.10.10 07:57:00 -
[26] - Quote
CCP Gargant wrote:None ofthe Above wrote:CCP Gargant wrote:This thread has fulfilled its purpose. It is about time to unsticky it as it has derailed in such a fashion that hurts the initial message we wanted to bring across. Yes we are still going through the growing pains and yes there is still room to improve, but this has become something else entirely.
The CCL seminar that Navigator mentioned will be held this week with the exact time and date to be announced later. Oh that is disappointing. The one place on the forums where moderation could be discussed has fulfilled it's purpose? You no longer feel that should be allowed? Please reconsider. Almost the first thing I did when I came into the forums was to acknowledge that there needs to be a place to discuss moderation in the general sense rather than specific instances of it. I am very much ready to discuss my own opinions regarding ways of moderation. This thread served that purpose, true, but it currently does more bad than good due to events that negatively affected it over the summer that I myself had nothing to do with because I wasn't a part of the Community Team yet. Removing the sticky on this thread is not an attempt to bury it or hide it. I can lock and delete for that. I'm trying to convey the point that we know things aren't in their best possible state yet and we are actively working towards getting them there. The seminar will be held this week as I said, and we will continue on from there. I'm not promising anything because I want to be able to deliver, but I can say that I have a specific goal and I am working towards that.
So why un sticky, this was put here for that reason in the first place. To un sticky this then say your going to create another thread to do the same thing sounds like someone acting first then thinking afterwards....
You should have just left it alone rather than again damaging relations...
Tal
-áI Fought the Law, and the Law Won... -áTalon Silverhawk-á |
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