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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
55
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:35:00 -
[1] - Quote
After the changes to war mechanics, small corps have it harder to wage war on large alliances, an activity that could prove very lucrative if done right.
However, today I'm here to cry and whine about good ole' corp hopping. Yes. Again.
We're currently in the middle of a tiny and friendly war with AAA pilots, and we're finding it quite frustrating to see how fond of corp hopping they are.
AAA pilots LOG OFF, get kicked out of corp on demand, relog, and bypass fleets and camps in NPC corps.
How come this hasn't still been addressed as an EXPLOIT?
It was suggested, some time ago, that whoever wanted to quit a corp before a war should do it before hostilities have started.
It was suggested that something similar to an aggro timer should be implemented, so that corp hoppers find themselves to be fair game for a certain period after quitting a corp/alliance in the middle of a war. Make it 48 or even 24 hours, but make it happen.
Is there any reason to explain why this hasn't been dealt with? I don't think corp-hopping was what they had in mind when they set up the corp recruitment/quitting rules.
Yes, I know. High Sec wars are for useless fools who fail at life and EvE, and yes, we should all come to deep 0.0 where your Titans and Drake/AHAC/Alpha BS fleets will pwn the everloving crap out of us, and we should all quit the game and send our stuff to the nearest AAA office...but, could we please discuss about the topic at hand?
Corp hopping is essentially WRONG, and AAA pilots keep doing this, when there are perfectly feasible, quick and fussless solutions suggested by the playerbase. |
Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
You should come to lowsec, we can be friends. |
Alexzandvar Douglass
NUTS AND BOLTS MANUFACTURING En Garde
40
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sounds like some one's butthurt with AAA.
Corp hopping is part of the game, encouraged even. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1095
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Corp hopping is bad and you should be ashamed of yourself My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Romar Agent
Ishukone Regional Headquarters
62
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
Corp hoping is a legitimate game mechanic. You can use another legitimate mechanic (suicide gank), when dealing with these players. |
Russell Casey
Goldbug Inc.
167
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:42:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just accept that CCP is never going to get War decs/highsec right and exploit-free. There's too many mechanics involved and if you're sick of dealing with them you really should just go where people can shoot each other without having to pay the nice policeman to look the other way. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
686
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
They were originally going to implement a "deserted" flag.
They decided to up war declaration costs and give defenders unlimited allies instead. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Kyle Ward
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
116
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:46:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ewww! I bet their Corp History tab is just a huge mess... The Sandbox, you're playing it wrong! |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1095
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
Romar Agent wrote:Corp hoping is a legitimate game mechanic. You can use another legitimate mechanic (suicide gank), when dealing with these players.
Corp hopping and suicide ganking arent comparable;
When suicide ganking you pay the cost for your actions by losing your ship to concord. When corp hopping you are just avoiding a paid for war dec when it suits you with no loss on your behalf.
Seriously, whats the point of having an updated war dec system if its as easily avoidable as dropping corp for 5 mins?
You can rest easy in the knowledge that CCP will 'eventually' fix corp hopping to some degree My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
686
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kyle Ward wrote:Ewww! I bet their Corp History tab is just a huge mess... Oh, I have a story to tell about this.
I once warred a carebear miner corporation, the members of which were not even aware of the "corp history" feature. Some of them were many years old. They jumped between their alt corporations each time I put out a new war, per their CEO's instructions. When I pointed out their hip-hoppin' corp histories, a few of them panicked. One even biomassed his character because he thought that he would no longer be "employable" otherwise. When I questioned the integrity of that decision, he told me it doesn't matter anyway because he "only" had four million skillpoints. He was over a year old. Apparently, his CEO told him that once he got into a Hulk, he'd never need anything else, so he stopped training his skills. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
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Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
11
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Posted - 2012.06.27 12:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
I think slipping between the cracks to avoid getting blown to pieces is totally legitimate.
Bravo on them.
Now, maybe an extradition mechanic might be cool.
"I can't help but notice that individuals I was after are hiding among your ranks, mind handing them over for their proper beatings?"
This is where you guys typically go so very, very wrong. You sit in this little box and instead of thinking of new creative ideas, you bleat the same garbage about, "THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED NOW, DAMMIT." |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1095
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tobias Durandal wrote:This is where you guys typically go so very, very wrong. You sit in this little box and instead of thinking of new creative ideas, you bleat the same garbage about, "THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED NOW, DAMMIT." So you are perfectly happy to pay for something and have it taken away from under your nose through no fault of your own? My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Tobias Durandal wrote:This is where you guys typically go so very, very wrong. You sit in this little box and instead of thinking of new creative ideas, you bleat the same garbage about, "THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED NOW, DAMMIT." So you are perfectly happy to pay for something and have it taken away from under your nose through no fault of your own?
Way to totally miss the point and riposte with some half-assed de-rail. No, no one is happy when they get bent over the bench and pounded from behind. However, that doesn't change the fact that if compared to a real world model, some people would do this very action. Therefore, I see it as working beautifully. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
686
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:07:00 -
[14] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:Tobias Durandal wrote:This is where you guys typically go so very, very wrong. You sit in this little box and instead of thinking of new creative ideas, you bleat the same garbage about, "THIS NEEDS TO BE FIXED NOW, DAMMIT." So you are perfectly happy to pay for something and have it taken away from under your nose through no fault of your own? Essentially this. I was personally fine with people corp-hopping until the recent changes, when CCP changed the war fees with the reason being given as "when you declare war you are essentially buying war targets, so the more targets you get the more you should pay." Yes, that is almost a word-for-word quote from a dev post.
Okay CCP, now that I'm "paying for war targets," can I also get refunds when the products I buy turns out to be defective? (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Ptraci
3 R Corporation The Irukandji
551
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:08:00 -
[15] - Quote
Darius Brinn wrote:After the changes to war mechanics, small corps have it harder to wage war on large alliances, an activity that could prove very lucrative if done right.
However, today I'm here to cry and whine about good ole' corp hopping. Yes. Again.
We're currently in the middle of a tiny and friendly war with AAA pilots,
Wait a second. Isn't AAA a nullsec alliance? I'm sure if you want a fight, you can go pretty much anywhere in the south-east and you will get a fight with as much AAA than you can handle. You don't need war decs in low or nullsec to shoot people.
Oh wait. You're trying to gank -A- haulers, -A- ships being ferried, and generally harass the occasional -A- pilot that ventures into high sec. Now it's clear. Well guess what - if you want to use cowardly tactics, expect failure. Fortune favors the brave. Bring your whole alliance to Catch. I promise you'll get people who don't switch corps. At least on our side. I expect all your carebears will jump ship pretty quick once their shiny Bhaalgorns get nuked. |
CARB0N FIBER
Derailleurs
26
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:08:00 -
[16] - Quote
should ship hopping be considered an exploit too?
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Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Essentially this. I was personally fine with people corp-hopping until the recent changes, when CCP changed the war fees with the reason being given as "when you declare war you are essentially buying war targets, so the more targets you get the more you should pay." Yes, that is almost a word-for-word quote from a dev post.
Okay CCP, now that I'm "paying for war targets," can I also get refunds when the product I buy turns out to be defective?
Like I mentioned earlier. An extradition mechanic would be lovely. |
Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
111
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Kinda reminds me of how the Al Qaeda would drop their AK's after getting a few shots off at a convoy, then mill about like they are simply civilians out on a stroll.
It's shameless and e-honorless, but what can you do (besides shooting the camera man first then laying waste with the Mark-19 into the group of "civilians").
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Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
55
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alexzandvar Douglass wrote:Sounds like some one's butthurt with AAA.
Corp hopping is part of the game, encouraged even.
Sounds like someone's tongue would reach AAA's upper intestines if AAA stopped all of a sudden.
Also, our small and irrelevant campagin against AAA has a current balance of 8 kills and 0 deaths for the first day.
Our campaing against En Garde is 12:1 (you got an Inty, I think), but it's way more fun because En Garde actually EJECTS tackled ships (ask your Alliance mate Sanada Prime).
This, in short, is not the point.
Corp hopping bypasses the "risk vs reward" mantra, unlike suicide ganking. Gankers LOSE their ships 100% of the time. Corp hopping is stupid.
Also, no, sir. I'm not sitting in my little sandbox refusing to adapt. But perhaps the fact that all CCP changes is pointed at making it HARDER to do small scale PvP against big alliances should grant me some temporary rights to complain.
It's not a matter of ADAPTING. It's a DESIGN FLAW that allows WAR TARGETS from a war that costed us money to QUIT THE WAR unilaterally with no consequences, and whenever they see fit.
This goes against all that EvE represents as a PvP game.
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TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Exhale.
105
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
I can't think of a single reason why having a 24hr window in which it's still valid to kill people who drop corp during wars wouldn't work.
People who legitimately want out of wars can do so, but it prevents instant-out abuse some people employ. |
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Sevena Black
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
The number of decent pvp-ers in -A- has been dropping for almost a full year now. The fact that these "commando's" need to go of radar in order to avoid detection bij h-sec carebears is very descriptive of -A- ablity to fight these days.
I would find a decent opponent. Maybe in low-sec or ally yopurself with another corp. Plenty of fights to be had with people who put their balls to the wall and fight it out.
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Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
416
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:17:00 -
[22] - Quote
Null alliances are filled with neutral alts. The alts take care of anything they need from high-sec. To include selling off the trillions of moon goo and loot.
Kind of explains why they don't bother with war dec's doesn't it
One of the reasons why I laugh every time someone complains about NPC characters or post with your main or highsec player shouldn't get a free lunch.
Hypocrite comes to mind.
EVERYBODY KNOWS |
Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:18:00 -
[23] - Quote
Sevena Black wrote:The number of decent pvp-ers in -A- has been dropping for almost a full year now. The fact that these "commando's" need to go of radar in order to avoid detection bij h-sec carebears is very descriptive of -A- ablity to fight these days.
I would find a decent opponent. Maybe in low-sec or ally yopurself with another corp. Plenty of fights to be had with people who put their balls to the wall and fight it out.
Well, not on the wall. That makes them vulnerable. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
686
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Darius Brinn wrote:After the changes to war mechanics, small corps have it harder to wage war on large alliances, an activity that could prove very lucrative if done right.
However, today I'm here to cry and whine about good ole' corp hopping. Yes. Again.
We're currently in the middle of a tiny and friendly war with AAA pilots, Wait a second. Isn't AAA a nullsec alliance? I'm sure if you want a fight, you can go pretty much anywhere in the south-east and you will get a fight with as much AAA than you can handle. You don't need war decs in low or nullsec to shoot people. Oh wait. You're trying to gank -A- haulers, -A- ships being ferried, and generally harass the occasional -A- pilot that ventures into high sec. Now it's clear. Well guess what - if you want to use cowardly tactics, expect failure. Fortune favors the brave. Bring your whole alliance to Catch. I promise you'll get people who don't switch corps. At least on our side. I expect all your carebears will jump ship pretty quick once their shiny Bhaalgorns get nuked. It's easy to talk smack behind the back of a group of people, huh? But your argument can easily be flipped against you. How about you leave the safety of blobs and capital cover, and come over to fight in an environment where friendlies and hostiles aren't so clearly marked, and neutral ganking and RR add elements of unpredictability that you are ill equipped to deal with? There are many ways to play, and many ways to fight other players. To claim yours is superior is pure ignorance.
But aside from that, how would you feel if CCP added the convenient feature of being able to transfer system sovereignty, and in the process reset whatever progress an attacking group has made toward capturing it? You know, you try to capture a system, and the enemy just transfers it over to an alt alliance. Then when you repeat the process, they do it again, and continue doing it each time you try to take control? Would you find that fair? Well, maybe if you own territory you'd love that, but I'm sure you see what point I'm getting at here. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1096
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
Tobias Durandal wrote:...stuff
I think you missed the point, nothing is working beautifully right now.
Simple question really, are you happy to pay for something and not recieve it?
Do you think its reasonable to have to pay for a war dec and have your targets slip in and out of the war whenever they feel like it?
protip : the answer is no
Here are three simple 'fixes' that would help make wars better:
1. Once a player is in a corp at war, the war 'sticks' to them for a week (i.e. until the next weekly war dec fee is paid)
2. Pilots can drop from a player corp at war to an NPC corp, but the war sticks to them until the week is over
3. Once a pilot is in a corporation that is at war, he cannot join another player corp for that week (apart from rejoining it if they had jumped to an NPC corp)
These changes will be for the better of the game in general, making war avoidance a thing of the past. My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
Darius Brinn
Iberians Iberians.
55
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:24:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ptraci wrote:Darius Brinn wrote:After the changes to war mechanics, small corps have it harder to wage war on large alliances, an activity that could prove very lucrative if done right.
However, today I'm here to cry and whine about good ole' corp hopping. Yes. Again.
We're currently in the middle of a tiny and friendly war with AAA pilots, Wait a second. Isn't AAA a nullsec alliance? I'm sure if you want a fight, you can go pretty much anywhere in the south-east and you will get a fight with as much AAA than you can handle. You don't need war decs in low or nullsec to shoot people. Oh wait. You're trying to gank -A- haulers, -A- ships being ferried, and generally harass the occasional -A- pilot that ventures into high sec. Now it's clear. Well guess what - if you want to use cowardly tactics, expect failure. Fortune favors the brave. Bring your whole alliance to Catch. I promise you'll get people who don't switch corps. At least on our side. I expect all your carebears will jump ship pretty quick once their shiny Bhaalgorns get nuked.
AAA is not a nullsec ONLY alliance. It's everywhere.
Also, yes. I'd love to gank a hauler. It's not something that has happened yet (to me).
Since the war started, we've killed:
-An Oracle. -A Thrasher, -A Drake. -A Vexor. -A Cyclone. -A Hurricane. -And a Prowler.
Nice share of haulers in there, amirite?
Also, to your bold claim that the TRULY BRAVE live in Catch, yesterday we tried HED-GP, everybody's favourite bottleneck with a lovely amount of traffic from AAA and En Garde. We got a Drake and an Incursus while waiting. And nothing. With 30 people in local, they ALLOWED us to camp the gate and attempt to shoot their mates, even using the drag bubbles AAA had set up themselves.
I understand that timezones might not match and that there's always many people AFK, or that (what the hell), sometimes one simply doesn't feel like fighting or is busy.
However, "come to deep Catch" IS NOT A VALID ANSWER OR SOLUTION to corp hopping, whatever you might think.
Wars are now MORE EXPENSIVE to us. And targets, after we've paid, can bypass the war completely. Don't you dare suggest that the problem is that we "do not adapt", dammit.
Kudos to AAA pilots who fight back when severely outnumbered and who don't ruin their corp historials with fail mechanics. |
Tobias Durandal
Wings of Redemption Black Flag Alliance
12
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
War. |
Zixie Draco
Tactical Knightmare
124
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Vote Skippermonkey CSM8 Would you like a kitten? |
MadMuppet
A Better Corp Name
483
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Posted - 2012.06.27 13:35:00 -
[29] - Quote
Skippermonkey wrote:
Here are three simple 'fixes' that would help make wars better:
1. Once a player is in a corp at war, the war 'sticks' to them for a week (i.e. until the next weekly war dec fee is paid)
2. Pilots can drop from a player corp at war to an NPC corp, but the war sticks to them until the week is over
3. Once a pilot is in a corporation that is at war, he cannot join another player corp for that week (apart from rejoining it if they had jumped to an NPC corp)
These changes will be for the better of the game in general, making war avoidance a thing of the past.
It also turns corps in to potential prisons for players who will eventually accept the 11% NPC tax or stop playing. What you are asking for is a 7-day CONCORD-approved gank permit, not a war. If I tried to make a type of coffee that made all of you happy, and you rated it, the group score for it would be about 60 out of 100. Break into 3 or 4 coffee clusters, and made coffee just for each cluster, the scores would go from 60 to 78. The difference between coffee at 60 and coffee at 78 is a difference between coffee that makes you wince or makes you happy. |
Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1097
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 13:40:00 -
[30] - Quote
MadMuppet wrote:It also turns corps in to potential prisons for players who will eventually accept the 11% NPC tax or stop playing. What you are asking for is a 7-day CONCORD-approved gank permit, not a war. If you are averse to a little bit of space foreplay with lasers, 11% tax is a small price to pay to be safely wrapped up in cotton wool
Need i remind you this is a multiplayer game? My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |
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